From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V3 #153 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.spectra.net/~ducksoup/pattyg/patttyg.htm * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com * then click "tour" and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V3 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Friday, May 21 1999 Volume 03 : Number 153 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: tape trading/"Tony" interpretation & Columbine [ABershaw@aol.com] MM: Fags, Queers, Dykes, Breeders, Rugmunchers, Butt Pirates, Gays, L esbians, etc. [Joe Sullivan It seems to me Patty's intention was to convey the intense pain of Tony, >and cruelty of the world toward "difference" of any kind. Since teen suicide is a related thread to the current "Tony" discussion, someone sent me this last night. It's Eric Harris' last communication before the Columbine shootings. If you haven't seen it already, it relates to the above interpretation & frighteningly speaks for itself. Alan Eric Harris's Suicide Note By now it's over. If you are reading this my mission is complete. I have finished revolutionizing the neoeuphoric infliction of my internal terror. Your children who have ridiculed me, who have chosen not to accept me, who have treated me like I am not worth their time are dead. THEY ARE FUCKING DEAD. Surely you will try to blame it on the clothes I wear, the music I listen to, or the way I choose to present myself -- but no. Do not hide behind my choices. You need to face the fact that this comes as a result of YOUR CHOICES. Parents and Teachers, YOU FUCKED UP. You have taught these kids to be gears and sheep. To think and act like those who came before them, to not accept what is different. YOU ARE IN THE WRONG. I may have taken their lives and my own -- but it was your doing. Teachers, Parents, LET THIS MASSACRE BE ON YOUR SHOULDERS UNTIL THE DAY YOU DIE. Am I insane? Maybe. Is it my fault? No. I did not choose this life, but I have indeed chosen to exit it. You may think the horror ends with the bullet in my head -- but you wouldn't be so lucky. All that I can leave you with to decipher what more extensive death is to come is ``12Skizto.'' You have until April 26th. Goodbye. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 18:34:36 -0700 From: Joe Sullivan Subject: MM: Fags, Queers, Dykes, Breeders, Rugmunchers, Butt Pirates, Gays, L esbians, etc. Hello Cristina:) It's nice as usual to read from you. All words exist in a certain context and take their meaning from the community which interprets them. Some may be cringing and PISSED about the subject line. My sincere apologies. Some don't like the language of Queer Studies; I do relative to the other "acceptable" titles. QS is pushing it in the academy at large, but depending on your audience you can probably label your research whatever your "subjects" name themselves. In certain contexts I use the overly clinincal, safe but accurate language of "gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgendered" and "partner/lover" and "penis/vagina/rectum." But when I'm groovin or chillin with the homeys that knowme those words CHANGE because the audience (aka language community) interprets them differently. I don't like to be clinical in bed, for example. People who know me understand those words differently. This is why black folk (and some seemingly white folk) can use the evil word NIGGA in a non-toxic way. There are certainly terrible ways those words can be used. Homophobia and the patriarchal systems of oppresion which underlie it are an illness we need to heal. Language is a starting point but not the only point. Therefore IMHO, recognizing bad language CAN alleviate oppression but doesn't NECESSARILY and certainly isn't SUFFICIENT. Gay culture is working on it. The language used by the queer community is in flux and reclaiming the power to name itself is catching on in different and contradictory ways. I don't think there is a satisfactory way to characterize the entire group. Especially given the radically different attitudes, history of lesbians and gay men. And the different values attached to being "mainstream." The best we can do is try some options. See if anybody freaks. Listen to their reasons. Then blow 'em off:) Love, Elton John PS: I vote for "gay" Tony. The faggot reference seems too close and too big of an issue. There would be lots of other ways to describe "different" kids. At a minimum, I'm bettin that he tripped PG's gaydar. - -----Original Message----- From: James P [mailto:jasepru@home.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 1999 3:00 PM To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: confused!! If " Life is stories and stories include all kinds of people!! " that includes homosexuals, not all of whom like to be referred to as "queer". That word still means strange and I am not strange. I just like boy crotch and not girl crotch. Okay, someone, anyone, please clarify something for me. There IS a field of academia called "queer studies," right? I just read a book by Alexander Doty called _Making Things Perfectly Queer_ which is about "queer" representations/readings/narratives in television. Doty has trouble explaining the term "queer" himself but uses it as a blanket term (even though he says that's what he's trying to avoid) to be all inclusive when discussing someone or a group who is/are non-straight. He does acknowledge that it is still a painful word to some but that organizations such as Queer Nation are, as Han said, reclaiming it. So what do I say when I talk about "queer" issues? I really don't want to have to say or type out "gay/lesbian/bi-sexual/transgender/etc...." Is there another blanket term used among this community that is non-offensive (although I realize that many are perfectly comfortable with it)? I plan to do several studies in the future of "queer" representations in film and I would like to know what an appropriate term would be. And please, no one tell me "can't we all just be called human" because that does not work in the field of cultural studies and serves no purpose in clarifying the issue. -Cristina ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 18:57:15 -0700 From: "Victoria Chenevey" Subject: MM: Re: tape trading/"Tony" interpretation & Columbine Call me a skeptic, but has this suicide note from Eric Harris been authenticated? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 19:25:26 -0700 From: Joe Sullivan Subject: MM: NO TAPE TRADING PROHIBITION PLEASE I'm against RULES AGAINST TAPE TRADING. Two reasons: 1. LABELS vs. ARTISTS. The ARTISTS benefit from trading. Trading builds support for live performance and creates a devoted fan base. Reference other posts arguing that live tapes don't trade off with album purchases. Fans who trade tapes also purchase official recordings. Only LABELS uniquely benefit from restricted trading, by monopolizing recording profits. Tapes = long term fan base, ie Grateful Dead. 2. LIVE performance ROCKS! Yeah DAWG, I want more live recordings, more improvization, more experimentation. Feed me in any way possible. I'll be friendly with the bootleggers anyway. I promise:) Peas, Phil Lesch - -----Original Message----- From: EveryLittleBit@aol.com [mailto:EveryLittleBit@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 7:30 PM To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: NPC: No requests policy A couple of the other lists I'm on instituted a semi-official policy about writing to the list requesting live tapes. The basic premise was that the best way to get copies of tapes is to make friends with other list members, and then get tapes from them. It was partly a security issue for the artists- tape traders who sell the live tapes could sign on the list, ask for tapes, get some nice soul to offer them, then sign back off and make money off of it. If the people had to make friends to get these tapes, it was kind of a check to make sure they were really fans. I know that's an unlikely scenario, but it did help form lots of relationships. People wh posted about getting copies of live tapes would recieve replys from people on the list encouraging them to make friends and stick around, kind of to "earn" the tapes. Hey, if they're fans they'll stick around anyway, right?I personally have been on this list for it's entire lifespan, and I've never posted asking for a tape, but I've made friends and gotten around 5-10 concerts (no, I don't have dubbing materials, so I can't make copies, before anyone asks!). Does anyone have an opinion about instituting such a policy here? Sure, Patty's tapes won't make much money for tape traders now, but they may soon. And we're not that big of a community yet, so it may not be that big of a hassle, but I always have to stop myself from writing to people and asking them not to ask for tapes on the list. It always seems kind of rude to me- but that's just because of the policy on every other list I'm on. What do you guys think? Am I way off base? Rachel:D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:18:01 EDT From: Zelly72@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: Was Tony Gay or a Geek? I never thought that he was gay, just that when he looked at himself he saw what everyone else had made him out to be, a dork. Kind of like when they say that when if you call your kids stupid, eventually they'll believe it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:38:13 EDT From: EveryLittleBit@aol.com Subject: MM: NPC: tape trading thing Sheesh people, it was a QUESTION. Some of you get so vhement over little things. I just hope that there are people on this list who reply to every single post of "I want some tapes" with immediate offers of all copies of all of their tapes, no charge. All of you who jumped on this issue had better damn well be making tapes for people. I guess that I wasn't being polite or respectful by never posting and asking for tapes- I was just being stupid. I guess I was too jaded to think that the "ask and ye shall recieve" course of action still applied anywhere. I guess the way I got my tapes was idiotic because why bother making friends with people and lucking out by getting tapes from them when all I could do was show up here, post once, and then disappear? I'm not mad about this as much as I'm mad that people acted like I wanted to Kill Patty. It was a simple question, based on actions I've seen taken on other list that worked well. I, personally, do not want to read people's begging for tapes. As a person that can not make tapes, and as a person who worked to get the tapes she has, I can not do anything for these people. And since most of them do not write "NPC" in their headings, I have no way of knowing this is a post I don't want to read. And these posts drive me crazy. I don't care, everyone jump down my throat. Everyone here fights from every different angle until nobody is sure what they're fighting against anymore- they just fight to fight. If you want to reply, please do so to me and not to the list, because I don't want to be involved in another insipid argument that is broadcast to hundreds of people. Rachel ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V3 #153 *********************************