From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V3 #143 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.spectra.net/~ducksoup/pattyg/patttyg.htm * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com * then click "tour" and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V3 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Monday, May 17 1999 Volume 03 : Number 143 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: Idolatry [MistyBC@aol.com] MM: Re: mad-mission-digest V3 #142 [Twan68@aol.com] Re: MM: Idolatry [rblack1@io.com (Ronda Blacksher)] MM: Idolatry again [EveryLittleBit@aol.com] MM: On Idoltry and other little Gods... [Wendy J ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 01:50:03 EDT From: MistyBC@aol.com Subject: MM: Idolatry Jess, Han, everyone... Your posts have been so thoughful and so interesting, I don't really know what I could add to them, but I'll try! I have always fought so hard against the "groupie" label, thinking that somehow I was above it. My example will be Debbie Gibson, just to add some humor to this discussion. The first album I owned was Debbie Gibson's "Out of the Blue," and to this day, I still love that album. I was 7 when I got it. Now I'm almost 19, and along the way, I've met Debbie over 20 times, seen her in plays, concerts, appearances, and even a fan club convention. She knows me by name and I've actually spent a good deal of time with her, and once I even sang on stage with her. I thought that this made me better than a normal "fan", better than those "yucky groupies." But it doesn't. I don't know Debbie, and I never will. I know the person that she chooses to show to the world. I will never take a road trip with her, and I will never sip lemonade with her in her backyard, with her dogs running around. And I don't want to. I have realized one thing with celebrities, and it is a depressing fact: They are not perfect. We put them on these pedestals making them better than normal humans, better than us. They are the people we want to be, the people we will never be. But if we were to really know these people, we'd know that they have tempers, zits, and skeletons, too. And no, that doesn't make them "more perfect." But it's really nice to think that, and I continue to do so. There are good things that come out of these obsessions and idolatries. Because of the rewards, I think it makes the whole process almost worthwhile. Back to Debbie, she always used to have a squeaky clean image that she got some flack for, but because she was against drugs and alcohol, I decided that I would be too. Because she felt so strongly about her dream and did everything in her power to make it come true, I felt like I could do anything I wanted if I worked hard. Also, seeing that Deb wasn't so hot when I was in middle school (early 90's), I had to stand up for myself, being the only Debbie fan left in my school. So, Debbie Gibson inspired me, made me stronger and shaped my youth--in a good way. As I'm creeping up on adulthood, I'm realizing how silly things are... How unimportant it is to get that autograph, how meaningless it is to tape that TV appearance... But for years, I got joy out of those things, and there is nothing wrong with joy, in my book, anyway. Once you realize how absurb the whole thing is, you've gotta go and find another hobby. Personally, I'm not ready for that. I'm sitting on the fence. I go to concerts, and I get autographs, but it doesn't make me near as happy as it used to. In a way, it means I'm growing up, I guess. That's not always fun, though. I get to watch myself through more adult eyes... but it's so much easier if you don't know the facts. I guess I'll shut up now, since I don't think I really said much of anything, except thoroughly embarassing myself with the Debbie Gibson ramblings. I hope you can relate. And don't worry, my music tastes have improved over the years. - -Misty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 08:52:58 EDT From: Twan68@aol.com Subject: MM: Re: mad-mission-digest V3 #142 Hi Guys, You know, Loretta Lynn (one of my faves) sits on stage after every concert and sign autographs until everyone is gone. And I have seen that line go on for a couple of hours. Sarah Hickman wanders around the audience before a show. It's all a matter of comfort. People assume that just because you can get on stage and perform for a room full of people that you are comfortable with anyone, but that may not be the case. I think we should cut all these people a little slack. Nobody is required to sign autographs. They are required to perform. They are free to leave as soon as the show is over. An autograph is a gift. I used to be a big autograph fiend, but recently I just watch the show and take that home. I have been to a number of Patty shows and have avoided the autograph thing becasue I don't want to be a part of that strange-looking group huddled around her bus , all of whom spout out Patty trivia to anyone who walks by. When I see Patty its like church. I even prefer to go alone so I can just dance and cry when she sings " Poor Man's House." The music is the gift, you don't need an autograph. I have a ton of them. Maybe one day someone will sell them after I die. Neato! Anthony ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 09:19:22 -0500 From: rblack1@io.com (Ronda Blacksher) Subject: Re: MM: Idolatry M, For what it's worth, this post made me laugh - out loud, alone in my office. Not that my/our amusement was the goal or even that the mail was "funny" ... just thanks for sharing - think you definitely hit on things common to all. Ronda >I guess I'll shut up now, since I don't think I really said much of anything, >except thoroughly embarassing myself with the Debbie Gibson ramblings. I >hope you can relate. And don't worry, my music tastes have improved over the >years. > >-Misty > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 12:49:32 EDT From: EveryLittleBit@aol.com Subject: MM: Idolatry again First of all, thank you Jess. You expressed things that I've been thinking for months but could never put into words. Your letter was sad, but the fact that you realized you could change you & your daughter's obsession- and begin to care that way about real things- gave it a happy ending. Sort of. Since everyone's recounting their brushes with fame, I'll go into mine (small as they are). When I was a rabid Jewel fan, I saw her 15 times (I think) in two years. The shows ranged from seeing her play in a mall (that was very weird) to seeing her in a huge auditorium filled with screaming teenagers. Almost every time I saw her I got there hours early to make sure I was in the front row. A couple of times during shows she would forget lyrics and I would tell her them, or I'd request a song that she hadn't released and she'd ask me how I knew them. I was all proud of these "conversations," and I thought it somehow made me special. But then I realized all my little Jewel-loving fans had similar experiences. My fiance has three tapes of concerts where she talks to him- one time making the whole audience say "Hi, Tom" to him. It's great that she talked to people. But I realized how useless my obsession was when I stopped going to see her when I couldn't get front row anymore. The money didn't count, and apparently the music didn't count to me either. If it did, I would have been perfectly happy with any seat anywhere in the place, right? I have the woman's autograph, which really means so little in life. It's sad that it's so important to beg someone to write their name on something. So, rambling on... for a while, Jewel was touring with The Rugburns, who were fronted by Steve Poltz. He's the guy who co-wrote "You Were Meant For Me"- the skinny guy in that video. I don't remember how it started, but at some point I thought that hanging out with them would be almost as good as being with Jewel. Hey, the guy probably slept with her, right? A lot closer than I would ever get. Sine the Rugburns were much more accessible than Jewel, I would seek them out during concerts instead of her. I started a friendship with Steve (the lead singer) and John (the bassist). I baked them cookies a few times, and they always remembered my name. Steve stripped for me once, but I think that was due to the hash he smoked before he came on stage, so whatever. Anyway, at a Jewel concert I had talked to the Rugburns the previous night and I told John I would take pictures for him at the next show, with his camera. At this show I was keeping my eyes peeled for any of the guys before the show started. At one point I saw Steve walking quickly down the aisle next to me with a blonde girl in tow. I stopped him and told him to tell John where I was so I could get the camera from him. When Steve and the blonde disappeared behind stage, I turned around and my friends were staring at me with their mouths open. Apparently the blonde girl was Jewel, and I didn't even notice her because I was talking to Steve. John eventually came out on stage before the show looking for me with the camera. I got up and grabbed it, and he asked where his cookies were, and I told them they were backstage for him (I'd given them to Steve earlier). Anyway, to shorten this, they dedicated my favorite song to me to thank me for the cookies. I saw them a month or two later and they still remembered my name and the cookies. Now, here's the sad part- they were great guys, but why is it such a big deal that they remembered my name? It's something I'd expect from almost anyone, but from them it was like they were doing me this huge favor and I was becoming famous because I could say they knew who I was. How sad. It's not a slam against them, because they were the most normal rock-star people I've ever met. But it made me realize that I expect normal things from these people, but I treat these normal things as if they were extraordinary. The first time I met Jewel, she hit on my boyfriend. It she was anyone else I met for the first time, I'd have been pissed at her. But since it was Jewel, I took it practically as a compliment and I told everyone I knew. It all makes so little sense. So when I first started "following" Patty, I met her a couple of times, got a couple of autographs and a couple of pictures. But now I don't wait around for her after shows. And if I can only get a seat in the back row of a place to see her, I'll take it. It's the music, not the person. If I can afford her a somewhat normal life by not treating her to her face as if she were a goddess, then I'll do that. Although it still bothers me that she doesn't know me by name. Sick, huh. Rachel:D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 09:51:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Wendy J Subject: MM: On Idoltry and other little Gods... Hmm...what a GREAT topic! Like many of you, I've certainly gone through my share of admirations/obsessions over the years. And after thinking long and hard about it, I'd have to say that the bulk of my idolizing has had to do w/attraction. On some level, I guess I've had crushes those I have admired -- from Holden Caufiled in "Catcher in the Rye" and Elliot in "ET" to Stevie Nicks, Belinda Carlisle (yes, I admit it!!), and now Patty. For me, the attraction lies in the person's ability to express themselves in such an honest and raw manner that I relate personally to their their words and emotions: I listen to their songs and I think, "That's me." And then the narcissist in me kicks in and takes it one step further; "I bet I'd really click w/this person b/c I click so well w/their words." But now, after having met many people whom I have admired (Toni Childs, Stevie, Belinda, Melissa Etheridge, Sinead O'Connor, Patty...) I've come to realize that their music really is enough. I don't need to know these people or have them know me. Instead, I want to share their music w/those whom I DO know and care about -- in the same way that I'd bring a lover or a friend to my favorite spot to view the sunset, or read them my favorite poem, or show them my favorite painting. I think the part of us that waits hours to get backstage or to meet the famous person we admire wants to be in some way to be connected to the art -- to be even closer to what has touched us. When I met Patty after her solo show in DC a few weeks ago, I was at first stumbling over my words b/c I was so excited to meet her. When she spoke to me briefly, I heard her unmistakable Yankee accent -- not unlike mine or my parent's back home in Massachusetts. and I realized...god, she reminds me of people I know from back home. Why have I elevated her? and why do we expect her to be so "grateful" to us as her fans? are we asking for too much to expect patty or anyone for that matter, to always want to meet us and acknowledge us? Maybe sometimes she's exhausted after a show, or has something going on in her life that makes her not want to be socialble and be "on" with people she doesn't know. maybe she's homesick... maybe (god forbid) she's just like you or me and sometimes grows weary of making small talk with strangers nite after nite (wouldn't you be?? haven't you ever been at a party when you didn't really feel like being out and meeting people and making small talk??) After I got her autograph, I stepped back and watched others approach her in the same vein that I did, and I realized then that I was simply one of many fans who were also starstruck and wanting her attention. But rather than feel deflated by that, I realized that that's exactly as it should be. She puts her music out there and that should be enough. Anyways...what am I saying?? I guess for me, personally, I've realized that a person's music or art or acting is enough. Of course, if I get the chance to meet them and tell them how much their talent has touched me, great, I'll totally gush. but I won't seek them out and demand their attention. I will be happy enough to be just one of many people who appreciate them. (part of my conscious effort to quell my inner narcissist). anyways...that's much more than my $.02 worth, but there you have it. and as for natalie merchant being less than gracious or even friendly to han, perhaps it was because Natalie disapproved of han's relationship with the band member, who, han told us, was twice as old as han is! Perhaps natalie viewed it as inappropriate? True, han was 18 at the time, but barely out of highschool. But on another note, why is it that any female who is smart, strong, and maybe a little aloof or even unfreindly gets labled a "bitch", as natalie has in the past (although I realize that han did not call her this), while males who act likewise get labled as .... hmmmm, there isn't even a word for it in our language, is there???? ~Wendy J in DC I agree w/someone's post on this subject; that all we should really But the older I get, the less I obsess over people I don't know. - --- Han wrote: > HI, Keith... > >>From Patty's side, her trailer is "home" while > she's on the road. I wonder > >how I might respond to people looking into the > windows of my home, or > waiting > >beside my door? I'd like to think that I would > smile, and talk, and sign > >autographs, and I'm sure I would most of the > time... but every time? > > In response to this thought... the night Patty > opened for Lucinda (didn't > stay for Lucinda.. Lucinda who?), I brought Patty > lilacs and a card that > I'd made, thanking her for putting her music and > self out there... As I > posted at the time (as a newbie ), the tech > guys let me into her bus > because I had given her her favorite flower. : ) > > I think part of the reason I got on the bus is b/c, > obviously, at this > point I am somewhat of a professional stalker (well, > that's an exaggeration > but I did learn a lot about schmoozing with techies > from my time with > Rob...). In any case, the time after a show is kind > of an important > schmoozing time for an artist, I think... from my > observation, it kind of > goes with the job. It's like: performance, then an > hour or two of PR is > required. No matter how tired you may be. Like any > job... it's work. > It's more satisfying at times, b/c it's highly > creative work. But it's a > job nonetheless. I found that there was a small > group in the bus when I > got on--perhaps press people--who'd had special > access but were obviously > drooling Patty fans like us. She was sitting on the > hideous tour bus > mafia-grey couch, looking beautiful, tired and > small, but radiating that > energy... and they were having trouble forming > sentences in their awe, > stumbling on and on playing "do you know?" games... > I tried to recall what > I'd learned. I said hello, shook her hand, she told > me she loves > lilacs--that they remind her of growing up in New > England, and then I > left... That was enough. I think the imposition is > not conveying your > appreciation, but being a psychic vampire, like some > groupies can be. It' > seasy to fall into--you don't know what to say. You > babble. Just like > when you try and talk to *anyone* oyu have some kind > of crush on (i.e., the > person is larger-than-life). I know that I am prone > to being a psychic > vampire, so I got out quickly. I was proud of my > former-groupie self! > > Han, former occasional psychic vampire > _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V3 #143 *********************************