From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V3 #36 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.spectra.net/~ducksoup/pattyg/patttyg.htm * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com * then click "tour" and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V3 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Wednesday, February 10 1999 Volume 03 : Number 036 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: Re: what is it about patty? late-night response with parentheses [hil] MM: RE: "Mary" and other beauties [Mark Cicero ] MM: RE: "Mary" and other beauties [Andrew Lee ] MM: Patty & Ellis Paul [MistyBC@aol.com] MM: RE: mad-mission-digest V3 #35 ["Laine Proctor" ] MM: favorite Patty songs.... [CornflkGl@aol.com] MM: Fluffy "Daddy?" ["James P" ] MM: RE: Fluffy "Daddy?" [Mark Cicero ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 02:40:31 -0800 From: hilah@ix.netcom.com Subject: MM: Re: what is it about patty? late-night response with parentheses well camille your simply stated request has me responding or the first time to a mad mission item. the list benefited me in that one day before i left for boston i read of show to happen a couple of days later in a small club in massachusetts, patty and her guitar no band. i called and managed to get the kind man to hold me a pair of tkts (against policy) and was able to attend a remarkable show ( i guess you could call it). otherwise i often find the list banter wacky. more to the/your point i bought living with ghosts when it first came out on the strength of the title and cover photo. at that time i was suffering from a heartbreak that i didn't simply wear on my sleeve, my whole garment was woven of it. so in that state of big big vulnerability i found the record a revelation and a comfort. the first of my favorite songs was "let him fly" which i still consider to be one of the great reckoning songs of all time. then "every little bit"' was my favorite, and clearly the reason was that the lyrics speak a truth that i might have otherwise considered unspeakable. so this is the pattern with me, each song in turn becomes my favorite and a quilt is woven. i find LWG to be a remarkable evaluation of the possibilities of relationships in the world, particularly those involving romantic love, but the basic sensitivity is what carries the music, lyrically and instrumentally. "poor man's house" is in a way a love song, though not romantic, to an overworked, underpaid father in the midst of a society which so seems to exalt the jaded jewel (in this case money, not the recently common list reference). the friction of this inequity and the beauty of the struggle of just living a life, opens the song to many of us (i suspect). in that same way forgiveness is a love song which moves from a specific, close as can be intimacy, to a larger vision, clear statement of what "everybody needs". so they are all my favorites and the reason is, it seems, the simple, strong sensitivity and love which gathers them. Flaming Red was eagerly awaited and proved a bit difficult for me. but in time, with many, many listenings in many different circumstances, i have found it also to be a testament to something finer and truer in us than most of the conversations i seem to be able to have. for this is in fact the relationship i have to this music, and in a certain sense all music. at first the instrumentation distracted me from the lyric, i was used to her voice clearly stated on a bed of strings, and now all of this sound! like a relationship which after its first flush, happy to jump through hoops, everything is beautiful phase, in time moves to more complicated territory, i was cranky and upset a little at the change. transition can be difficult and it was for me with FR, but i am committed to the relationship and the benefits of an open hand/open heart perspective have proven extraordinarily rewarding in this case (among others). eventually i found in the music the same honest, powerful unfolding. patty's music is a conversation which to date has continued to offer me new insights and reckonings, and for this i find myself intimately thankful to and for someone i'll never actually meet. which is as it should be, 'cause it leaves us wondering and hoping that what moves us in the music is in some sort of way, everywhere available. so, ok, this has been late-night wordy but hopefully in some sense addresses your questions. in short, the music of patty griffin has taught me alot, reminded me of alot i would have forgotten at my peril, and i am o so thankful for her in this world. best to you. ps at the show in haverhill, ma. patty sang "Mary" as an encore and some big fella screamed out, well into this sweet song of remembering, and just when her voice had cradled and carried me to some each and everywhere, "who loves ya baby". i couldn't be if sure the tangled smile on her face was pained or not, speaking for myself, i was disoriented by his insensitivity and volume. she sang on somehow accepting, i imagine, that this is all part life on the big blue marble. then he yelled it again. my first thought "everybody needs a little forgiveness". (in truth that was probably my second thought). and so... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:23:29 -0600 From: Mark Cicero Subject: MM: RE: "Mary" and other beauties Camille in Connecticut, a mad-mission novice states: "I'm interested to hear what people's favorite Patty Griffin songs are, and why exactly." Mark replies: My favorite PG songs are not necessarily the most touching. I sort of have two catagories. My all time favorite is "Cain" and although I have several versions, it is the version on the Lilith Fair CD that's my favorite. Someone else mentioned "We are Water" and I have to agree that it is one of my favorites, as well. I was very disappointed that it never made it to Flaming Red. The song that I find most touching is "Forgiveness" from LWG. Her lyrics and phrasing on this song are magical. Best Regards, Mark Nashville,TN ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:34:39 -0500 From: Andrew Lee Subject: MM: RE: "Mary" and other beauties I have to agree with hilah@ix.netcom.com , in that "each song in turn becomes my favorite"... On any given day of the week, my personal preference for a particular song increases or decreases depending on my mood, or the events in my life. There are several songs that seem to be staples for me, and sort of a foundation for other parts of my life. I don't know exactly how to explain it, but my appreciation for all things artistic is colored by my feelings about myself. Patty has given me a real gift with her incredibly powerful lyrics. Many of her songs can bring me to tears, but there are a few that have really helped me define a greater sense of myself. One of those songs is Change. This song reminds me that while a certain amount of flexibility is appropriate, too much change can make you lose yourself... But now there's no name for you I understand that we lost that too Along the same lines, You Never Get What You Want... Similar theme, similar impact... And you told me how to act and What to say But you never get what you wanted that way You never get what you want You never get what you want and I don't think it's my fault You never get what you want, do you baby? Patty is just an incredible woman. I can't tell you how much I appreciate her work. She has been a true inspiration to me, and a balm for my soul when I am sad. Thanks to Patty for sharing her gift, and thanks to Camille for initiating this new thread. Lee in Atlanta ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:09:29 EST From: MistyBC@aol.com Subject: MM: Patty & Ellis Paul Hello everyone! I hope you are all having a great day... This is probably reeeeally old news for most of you. I have been hearing raves about Ellis Paul lately, and so when I saw his CD "Carnival of Voices" at a used CD store, I picked it up. Well, I was overjoyed to see that Patty sings backup throughout this whole album! In many songs, her voice is really prominent. Also, this is a beautiful album, so everyone should pick it up! I think it was released in 96, on Rounder Records. Smiles, Misty ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:35:44 -0800 From: "Laine Proctor" Subject: MM: RE: mad-mission-digest V3 #35 Camille in Connecticut wrote, "...the instrumentation on "Mary" alone is indisputable proof. I am moved to the point of tears and goose-bumps every time I hear that song, and was curious to know if anyone else is touched as deeply by it?" Christina, I too am touched very deeply by Mary. Especially having been raised Catholic, I always found that I identified much more profoundly with Mary than Christ or God, and I think Patty hits the nail on the head in this song. Mary is yet another incarnation of the goddess that people have worshipped since time untold. She is represents the very physical basis to all that sustains us physically and spiritually in this world. Or, as June Jordan describes woman in one of my favorite poems, she's "the universal skin you love to touch." My favorite line is "you're covered in treetops, covered in birds, that can sing a million songs, without any words." Plus, the music of Mary has such an epic expansive quality, of all the hymns to Mary I've heard, I think this may be the biggest compliment. :-) Another song of Patty's that really gets me is "Poor Man's House." All I love all the subtle melancholy and intricacy of the vocals and the interplay between her voice and the guitar in this song especially. One thing that I find particularly striking is how the guitar stays pretty gentle and melodic during the song, then at the end she just goes off with all of those heavy, loud strums. It's like the song is sort of this lament about how hard life is but it is softened by this promise of a beautiful afterlife. But, right there at the end, to me it seems like she saying (or strumming) Yeah, but we're on earth and this is really hard and it pisses me off because it sucks. Any thoughts from anyone else?? Oh, and this song and Sweet Lorraine, and Mary make me cry! Laine P.S. Is anyone else going to see Patty and Lucinda at the Fillmore on the 5th of March??? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:42:38 EST From: CornflkGl@aol.com Subject: MM: favorite Patty songs.... Mark said : <> It's a lot easier to find my LEAST favorite Patty songs than it is to find my favorites. I love almost all of them. Almost everything on LWG rings my bell. I love the emotion if "Regarding Mary", AND the bittersweetness of "Mary" (no Regarding needed). "Nobody's Crying" (the wishing well song) is gorgeous, too. I also love her cover of "Stolen Car". I think that the emotion in her voice makes up for whatever's lacking in the lyrics or melody. Her voice tells the stories better than the words, IMHO. The songs I don't like are the ones that seem like fluff to me ("Blue Sky" and "Big Daddy"), but hey, you never get what you want, right ? I'm loving this Patty content :) Although I usually love the NPC too. Rachel:D ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:08:52 -0600 From: "James P" Subject: MM: Fluffy "Daddy?" Okay, I'm totally running late for work but I have to address this otherwise it'll bug me all night... I simply just do not understand why "Big Daddy" is getting such grief. Not only has it been called "fluff," but another MM'er described it as "crap" a couple of months ago when I posted that I thought it was a beautiful song. Perhaps it is a personal experience that I had many years ago that the song makes me think of every time I hear it. Please allow me to explain: When I was about 14 I went deep-sea fishing with some family on a boat of about 100 people. Once we got out and started fishing, I was suddenly surrounded by suffocating fishes as they violently thrashed against the boat for their dear lives. I looked up from the fishes to see everyone laughing, joking around, and having fun. They were completely oblivious to the death at their feet. I immediately became saddened and went to sit down. After everyone was through and we made our way back to shore, a contest began on who caught the largest fish. I went out on deck and saw a line up of about 7 to 10 baby sharks hanging from their tails with blood dripping out of their noses. These sharks were hanging up against the white boat so the blood stood out greatly. Once again, everyone was laughing and congratulating each other on their "achievements." I was thoroughly sickened by the spectacle and I had put that awful day out of my head until I heard Patty's song almost 10 years later. See, for me, Patty's song is about the loss of innocence that occurs when children find out how food really gets to their plates. They are repulsed by the violence and cruelty that humans subject on animals. The child in the song goes from having lots of fun to extreme sadness as soon as he sees the cruelty in front of him. I have a 4 year old cousin who LOVES animals (as most children do) and would be horrified if he ever made the connection between the chicken on his plate and the actual animal. It disturbed me that parents were upset that their children refused to eat pork after watching the movie _Babe_. Are children not ethical people? Do they not have a right to decide what goes into their bodies? I have no idea if Patty is a vegetarian, I'm a struggling one myself, but it really doesn't matter. You see, the idea of saving any living being that is helpless and defenseless such as animals and children is something that is extremely relevant. You can hear these same ideas in Marvin Gaye's work as he pleads with us to "Save the babies" and suggests, "Let's save ALL the children" in his song of the same name. Like I said before, it may just be that my parallel experience really opened me up to that song. Of course, at 14 I was aware of how fish got to my plate. I was just unaware of the spectacle and cruelty that was involved. It never really hit me until that day. I hope that maybe I've convinced someone to give that song another listen. I think that it is far more than just "fluff." I think we should give Patty more credit than that. Thanks for reading, Cristina ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:22:42 -0600 From: Mark Cicero Subject: MM: RE: Fluffy "Daddy?" I had an opportunity to speak with Patty a few months ago and I asked her "Who was Big Daddy" she smiled and she said, "I'm not telling, use your imagination". I also recall that someone on this list thought it was about a child molester. What I find most interesting is how one song can say so many things to so many people. "Big Daddy" and "Peter Pan" are my least favorite PG songs. I can think of so many other songs that should have made it to Flaming Red. Whatever........... to each thier own. Regards, Mark - -----Original Message----- From: James P [mailto:jasepru@home.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 1:09 PM To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: Fluffy "Daddy?" Okay, I'm totally running late for work but I have to address this otherwise it'll bug me all night... I simply just do not understand why "Big Daddy" is getting such grief. Not only has it been called "fluff," but another MM'er described it as "crap" a couple of months ago when I posted that I thought it was a beautiful song. Perhaps it is a personal experience that I had many years ago that the song makes me think of every time I hear it. Please allow me to explain: When I was about 14 I went deep-sea fishing with some family on a boat of about 100 people. Once we got out and started fishing, I was suddenly surrounded by suffocating fishes as they violently thrashed against the boat for their dear lives. I looked up from the fishes to see everyone laughing, joking around, and having fun. They were completely oblivious to the death at their feet. I immediately became saddened and went to sit down. After everyone was through and we made our way back to shore, a contest began on who caught the largest fish. I went out on deck and saw a line up of about 7 to 10 baby sharks hanging from their tails with blood dripping out of their noses. These sharks were hanging up against the white boat so the blood stood out greatly. Once again, everyone was laughing and congratulating each other on their "achievements." I was thoroughly sickened by the spectacle and I had put that awful day out of my head until I heard Patty's song almost 10 years later. See, for me, Patty's song is about the loss of innocence that occurs when children find out how food really gets to their plates. They are repulsed by the violence and cruelty that humans subject on animals. The child in the song goes from having lots of fun to extreme sadness as soon as he sees the cruelty in front of him. I have a 4 year old cousin who LOVES animals (as most children do) and would be horrified if he ever made the connection between the chicken on his plate and the actual animal. It disturbed me that parents were upset that their children refused to eat pork after watching the movie _Babe_. Are children not ethical people? Do they not have a right to decide what goes into their bodies? I have no idea if Patty is a vegetarian, I'm a struggling one myself, but it really doesn't matter. You see, the idea of saving any living being that is helpless and defenseless such as animals and children is something that is extremely relevant. You can hear these same ideas in Marvin Gaye's work as he pleads with us to "Save the babies" and suggests, "Let's save ALL the children" in his song of the same name. Like I said before, it may just be that my parallel experience really opened me up to that song. Of course, at 14 I was aware of how fish got to my plate. I was just unaware of the spectacle and cruelty that was involved. It never really hit me until that day. I hope that maybe I've convinced someone to give that song another listen. I think that it is far more than just "fluff." I think we should give Patty more credit than that. Thanks for reading, Cristina ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V3 #36 ********************************