From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V2 #185 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.spectra.net/~ducksoup/pattyg/patttour.htm * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com/road/index.html * and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V2 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Thursday, July 2 1998 Volume 02 : Number 185 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: Tony and the masses ["Bill Diekmann" ] Re: MM: Tony and the masses [SunShiny16@aol.com] MM: Tony on the radio [hkoehler@admin.austin.isd.tenet.edu (Holly Burton ] MM: Tony: chamomile and honeysuckle ["Paquin, John" ] MM: RE: Elaine's comments on "Tony" [David Lewis ] MM: My Dream (CD singles) [David Lewis ] Re: MM: RE: Patty ["Stephen V. Gilmore" ] Re: MM: My Dream (CD singles) [JohnRN23@aol.com] Re: MM: Tony on the radio [Robin Hall ] Re: MM: JB: Bad Radio () ["Stephen V. Gilmore" ] MM: Patty: Full Page Article in July "Pulse!" Magazine ["Larry G." Subject: MM: Tony and the masses Elaine wrote; Tony is about the lonliness and desperation a young person may feel in coming to terms with his/her sexuality, and the realization that because of his/her sexual preference society, views him as a worthless and twisted individual. It's a sad, sad thing that this happens, but the suicide rate among gay youths is TOO high. I think some may think that Tony is a disparaging song about gay youth, when obviously the writer of the song is using sarcasm to make her point about the senselessness of suicide and the hoplessness some gay youth feel, which ends sometimes in tragedy, and will continue I'm sure, as long as society allows negative, disparaging, anti-gay views to permeate. Elaine - --------------------------------- Very well put Elaine. My point is that none of this matters to the clueless. All they will hear is the "bad" words and come up with their own conclusions. I agree 100 per cent with your post though which brings my response to another poster. Someone wrote that they thought that gay-rights activists might take offense to the song. I would tend to disagree with this as I'm sure almost 100 percent can relate to Tony. Allot more so than most of us hetero's. I could actually see Tony as becoming (for lack of a better word) a kind of anthem for some. I actually really, really hope I am wrong and it does make it to the airwaves. It is just the type of song that could open up some eyes and minds. Tell the programmers to have more faith in our children........they can handle it. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:18:55 EDT From: SunShiny16@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: Tony and the masses Not to be redundant or anything, but about the song Tony and the words fag adn faggot...most of my guy friends are gay and although they don't necessarily appreciate those words, I don't think they HATE them. If they were to hear Tony on the radio I'm almost 100% sure they would find the reason for those particular words instead of just saying "homosexual" or "gay." I completely agree that it's the radio guys, the ones who own the stations and etc, who would not want to hear Tony-not the homosexual community. I guess time will tell if this particular song will ever be played on teh air. That's my two cents! Risa PS-I'm listening to Tony right now and it's just a beautiful song ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 09:48:11 -0500 From: hkoehler@admin.austin.isd.tenet.edu (Holly Burton Koehler) Subject: MM: Tony on the radio KGSR in Austin played "Tony" on 6/23!!! Granted, I've only heard it on the radio one time, but it's a start. Jody Denberg (sp?) introduced the song by saying, "This one speaks for itself." Indeed! HBK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 09:47:58 -0500 From: "Paquin, John" Subject: MM: Tony: chamomile and honeysuckle The words fag and faggot are derisive. There is no way around it. Patty uses these words deliberately because of their angry connotation. Patty, like other storytelling artists (i.e. Bruce Springsteen, Melissa Etheridge etc.), uses a narrative "voice" in her lyrics. When she uses the word "faggot" in the chorus, she is telling us how Tony viewed himself. When she uses the word "fag" in the last verse, she is telling us how she feels the world saw Tony. The insulting nature of the words, for me, adds to the tragedy of the song. your mileage, of course, may vary. - -john PS two scents, get it? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 08:08:05 -0700 From: Ashley Tsongas Subject: MM: RE: Patty Hey, Flaming Red is XPN's featured album of the week: http://xpn.org/sections/featured_album_current/featured_album_current.ht ml -----Original Message----- From: Stephen V. Gilmore [SMTP:web6516@charweb.org] Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 1998 5:09 PM Cc: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: Patty You may want to expel me from being a subscriber, but I had never heard "Tony"--until tonight. About an hour ago, David Dye played a song about 20 minutes into the first hour of "World Cafe" which had the sound of another excellent work by a female singer-songwriter. I wondered "Gosh, who's that? Sounds like Dar to me." Was surprised to learn it was the one and only "Tony" performed by the one and only Patty. Incidentally, bug David (worldcafe@pobox.upenn.edu) to get him to have Patty as a guest on the Cafe. SVG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 12:58:02 -0300 From: David Lewis Subject: MM: RE: Elaine's comments on "Tony" Elaine, I just wanted to say, very well put. Of all the stuff that's been written about this song on Mad Mission, (and I'm guilty of writting a fair bit about it myself after misinterpretting the song when I first heard it last winter) this post really puts it best. Fantastic job. It is a wonderful song. I do think it would have been nice if Patty had mentioned something about "Tony" in the CD booklet though as it's too easy to forget when listening to the song that Tony was a real person ("Tony" may of course be a false name). Perhaps it's better for his parent's sake that he remain annoymous, but of course Patty would have seeked their approval before adding a note about him in the booklet. <> - ------------------------------------------- David Lewis - Graphic Designer dlewis@hfx.andara.com - ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:46:09 -0300 From: David Lewis Subject: MM: My Dream (CD singles) My Dream is to have some CD singles released for Flaming Red with previously unreleased tunes!! I realize the chances of this happening are next to nil, but hey, It's fun to dream anyway right? In a perfect world however, there *would* be CD singles with cool "B-sides". Here are my votes for what some of those cool "B-sides" could be :) 1. We Are Water (simply stunning... especially that line about no footprints on the beach) 2. Nobody's Crying (a.k.a Wishing Well) I was really disappointed that this was not on FR... oh well :( 3. Long Ride Home (beautiful, touching song... very folky sounding :) 4. Silver Bell (awesome tune) 5. Falling Down 6. One More Girl (stong tune... great chorus!) 7. Goodbye (An acoustic voice and guitar only version or just voice and a few guitars. The drums on FR are just too much for this tune IMHO) - ------------------------------------------- David Lewis - Graphic Designer dlewis@hfx.andara.com - ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:56:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Stephen V. Gilmore" Subject: Re: MM: RE: Patty You're lucky to hear FR as 'XPN's album of the week. Bug David Dye to get her on WC so those of us outside of Philadelphia (or as David Dye would say, "phil-lah-DEL-FEE-YAH!!", with each succeeding syllable getting a heavier emphasis than the one before it) get the priviliege of hearing her the same way those of you in the City of Brotherly Love do. - SVG On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Ashley Tsongas wrote: > Hey, Flaming Red is XPN's featured album of the week: > > http://xpn.org/sections/featured_album_current/featured_album_current.ht > ml > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stephen V. Gilmore [SMTP:web6516@charweb.org] > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 1998 5:09 PM > Cc: mad-mission@smoe.org > Subject: MM: Patty > > You may want to expel me from being a subscriber, but I had > never heard > "Tony"--until tonight. About an hour ago, David Dye played a > song about > 20 minutes into the first hour of "World Cafe" which had the > sound of > another excellent work by a female singer-songwriter. I > wondered "Gosh, > who's that? Sounds like Dar to me." Was surprised to learn it > was the > one and only "Tony" performed by the one and only Patty. > > Incidentally, bug David (worldcafe@pobox.upenn.edu) to get him > to have > Patty as a guest on the Cafe. > > SVG > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:10:23 EDT From: JohnRN23@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: My Dream (CD singles) Hey Dave, I have to admit that Nobody Crying is my FAVORITE Patty song, Long Ride Home and Bubba's Silky Lounge have to come right after that. I wonder if Patty would be willing to surprise us with a whole CD of unreleased stuff I was just hoping she reads these posts actually. :-) John ------------------------------ Date: 01 Jul 98 08:58:10 -0800 From: Robin Hall Subject: Re: MM: Tony on the radio Elaine Bean wrote: Tony is >about the lonliness and desperation a young person may feel in coming to >terms with his/her sexuality, and the realization that because of >his/her sexual preference society, views him as a worthless and twisted >individual. It's a sad, sad thing that this happens, but the suicide >rate among gay youths is TOO high. >Elaine "Tony" is about the loneliness of being gay and young, but what makes the song powerful for me is the way the narrator identifies her own isolation and alienation with that of Tony. It's like she's saying, "we're all in this together, we've all felt this way, too bad we didn't know there were other people who felt the same way." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 19:27:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Stephen V. Gilmore" Subject: Re: MM: JB: Bad Radio () Support NON-COMERCIAL (often college) stations - they answer to no one but their listeners! - SVG On Mon, 29 Jun 1998, Kuhl wrote: > > > Darrel & Deanna wrote: > > > > << Most commercial radio stations play music as a loss leader to saturate > > > > > your ears with commercials. The FCC and FTC should investigate to see > > if > > > commercial radio stations are really advertising delivery devices. >> > > > > > > > I know 1st hand about crummy radio situations im sure all of the Mnpls, > MN fans on the list have heard of the great REV 105 tragity. Most radio > stations now are just property of large corperations looking to make money and > dont really give a rats ass about the community nor the musically involved. > > If you are intersted in keeping your fav local/indpendent/comunnity run > radio staion check out http://radiodiversity.com/ this organization was > founded after the whole REV 105 feasco > > Sean > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 21:44:47 -0700 From: "Larry G." Subject: MM: Patty: Full Page Article in July "Pulse!" Magazine Hi! I've been woefully behind in reading email, so I'm sot sure if this has been reported yet, but Patty is featured in a full-page article in the July 1998 issue of "Pulse!" Magazine (Tower Records' in-store mag). Here it is: Patty Griffin -- Pulse Magazine July, 1998: "It's better than slinging pies." (By Tom Lanham) It wasn't the wacky work-life depicted in TV sitcoms like "Two Guys, a Girl and a Pizza Place," sighs feisty folk-rocker Patty Griffin. Not even close. During the five pre-songwriting years she was slinging slices in a Boston parlor, she says, "you can walk up to a table of 10 people, and three of those people are being the biggest assholes in the world to you, but the rest of the table is completely oblivious. For some reason, they can'/t see this going on, while you can see the whole scenario ‘cause you're waiting on them." Her conclusion? "Waitressing is a shitty job, and that's why -- because people are simply not respectful." In these chattery days of talk-show/chatroom overdrive, Griffin wonders: Can folks shut the hell up for once and attempt to rediscover the lost art of listening? She did, thanks to that humbling table-server experience. "People didn't listen when I was waitressing; people were always in their own heads -- which forced me to deal with the anger that I'd been carrying around with me for a long time," says Griffin, who, on her sophomore stunner "Flaming Red," quietly observes some uncomfortably dark strains of human interaction. From the suicidal adolescent in "Tony," through an emotionally abused housewife in "Change," to the isolated, ivory-towered heiress in "Christina," Griffin's coolly detached character studies could only have coalesced in silence, in the ability to pay close attention to the conversations of others. The youngest of seven kids, Griffin says she learned how to keep mum from an early age. And she stayed hushed right up to the splintering of her marriage in ‘92, when the diminutive -- but megaphoned-voiced -- redhead began venting her frustration through song. The psychology of this transformation never ceases to awe her. "One of the reasons I do music is because I'm shy. And if you're shy, you don't talk much, and if you don't talk much, you're kind of inarticulate, you can't really express yourself well in a conversation. So a lot of the inability to listen, I think, is the fear of not being heard. And because of the way our society is set up and running now, there's not a lot of compassion out there for individuals, and people are in desperate need of talking and expressing themselves." Which tramples precious attentiveness under foot, she believes. "I don't know how many times I've sat in a group of adults -- all grown people -- where they're constantly interrupting each other and never letting each other finish, just a constant battle. I get stressed out just ‘thinking' about it." But 34-year-old Griffin -- like many an ex-food server -- knows the power of assertiveness. While her "Living With Ghosts" debut was soft-sung tentative, "Flaming Red" cranks up the guitar amps to put some jangly juice behind such visceral metaphors as "Dog comes howling up behind you, sinks his teeth in your leg / Tells you how now things are going to be a little different / And he takes you down a peg." And it's like this, explains Griffin, who terms her compositions "musical farts": "I don't set out on a mission to learn about certain things -- I just have a process going on inside myself, and I follow those thoughts until the songs just pop out and articulate things for me. Then I can learn things from my songs." Slinging the pizza also taught Griffin two more priceless lessons: One, the value of hard work ("I can really keep at my career now, because when you're waitressing, you can end up on your feet for 10 or 12 intense hours"). And two, when a customer has finally pushed their luck too far, the sheer joy of food-tampering revenge. Griffin cackles with raspy glee at the thought. "I've sent quite a few doggie bags home with some nasty extra things in ‘em! And I, uh, did some ‘other' things during my waitress years that I'm, uh, not too proud of. But you know what?" She suddenly brightens. "I was just thinking the other day about how glad I am that I took that job, because I really, ‘really' learned a lot!" - -=-end-=- Seeya! - -=-Larry-=- ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V2 #185 *********************************