From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V6 #98 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.quackquack.net/pattyg * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com * then click "tour" and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V6 #___ gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Tuesday, March 26 2002 Volume 06 : Number 098 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Fwd: MM:talk about -SEX APPEAL!!!! ["=?iso-8859-1?q?Ma'eee?=" ] Re: MM: Come on.... [diamondmask@juno.com] Re: MM:talk about -SEX APPEAL!!!! [LouAnn Muhm ] MM: Evil Speaks [Gary Jacques ] MM: RE: Come on.... ["Willms, Gregory J." ] Re: MM: Flaming Red-current thread summary [David Tumbarello Subject: Re: Fwd: MM:talk about -SEX APPEAL!!!! I think mid drift is better! It is what happen after one or two children; your midriff turns into a mid-drift! EM --- Femboty2k@aol.com wrote: > okay, so it's a midriff....Yet another misused > word/phrase I can add to my > silly little twit girl list. > > mid drift > nip it in the butt > doggy dog world > Return-path: > From: Femboty2k@aol.com > Full-name: Femboty2k > Message-ID: > Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:30:27 EST > Subject: Re: MM:talk about -SEX APPEAL!!!! > To: mad-mission@smoe.org > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10564 > X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from > multipart/alternative by demime 0.97c > X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used > was text/plain > > You tell em! Darcie! > > I'd pay to get on stage and have a million people > checking out my mid drift > and I love every minute of. Yeah baby! > > My whole point is little girls ARE NOT porn stars > and they are not drug > addicts. Yes they may grow up to become drug > addicts with needles in their > arms and prostituting themselves but not because of > Britney Spears or any one > of her likes. But because they are confused and > misguided. They are confused > by their fathers and mothers (or lack of), and > uncles, brothers, next door > neighbors and priests. Get it? Do you understand? > They are fucked up in the > head because someone moron somewhere said modesty > was a requirement to being > a girl and if you were anything but modest then you > were a slut. > > The attitude that there is something wrong with the > way Britney Spears > dresses is the very attitude that gets women > mistreated and raped. It's the > attitude that confuses little girls. How do you > explain to a seven year old > that YOU don't like Britney's outfit. What do you > say? It's not pretty. I > don't like that color. Think about that for a > minute. You wonder why women > are psycho? We're' psycho because we are told when > we are young to grow up > and be nice girls, while our fathers pat our > brothers on the back for having > more than one girlfriend > > Now we're saying that it's not okay for Britney > Spears to dress they way she > wants. Why? What is all this for? What is wrong > with the female body? > What is wrong with posing for playboy? Someone > please tell me! What is so > wrong with being a women! > > Someone also needs to tell me why we treat hard core > criminals better then we > treat women who are unfortunate enough to be on the > street. Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:01:15 -0400 From: David Lewis Subject: MM: Re: Come on.... Ok... slow down for a second here. I called her a twit because of the full combination of what she says, does, sings about, etc., not because of the clothes she wears. As for judging people you do not know, you have more of less just accused me, someone you don't even know, of being a jackass who does not feel that women are worthy of being treated with respect. I find that unbelievably offensive. The people I feel are less deserving of respect are people who have nothing of value to say. People who pander to the lowest common denominator. People who care only about fame and nothing else. People, male or female, who care only about looks and not much else. Male or female! All of which is not to say that I would do or wish harm upon any human being! I just don't buy their records or pay much attention to them that's all... and I certainly don't find them to be sexy. I have no problem with sexy people... and I most *CERTAINLY* do not think that they "deserve what they get" if someone does them harm. Anyway, the point is, we were talking about Brittney and sex appeal... and my 2 cents is, I don't find her to be sexy at all because to me, she has nothing of value to say in her music or in her career as a whole. Sexy to me is not about clothes and plastic surgery. > Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:17:19 EST > From: Femboty2k@aol.com > Subject: Re: MM: Come on.... > > You sound like a pig? Believe me she's not interested in doing every guy > that's watching. She's just being sexy. It's entertainment. Is there > something wrong with that? You got a problem with sexy women? Is there > something wrong with sex? > > We live in a world where people call young women that they don't even know > silly little twits just because they don't like their them. No, you didn't > say that, but someone else did! Yes that gets women hurt! As far as being > mis-treated, you suggest leave...do you live in a cave? > > The same jackasses who harm women are the one's who say Britney Spears wants > to fuck every guy that watches her! You see, they live in a dream world > that assumes just because a women has turned them on then it's okay to act. > And the attitude that Britney Spears is a silly little twit suggests to the > jackasses of the world that women like her arn't worthy of being treated with > respect. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 04:29:43 -0800 From: diamondmask@juno.com Subject: Re: MM: Come on.... "for those of u that think u can dress anyway u want and its the mans problem if he cant control himself.. is an unrealistic way of thinking. while i agree, it is the mans problem," Let me be clear here....I in no way think that it's ok for a man to attack a women because her attire, or lack of it, made him a gorilla. There's something wrong in his brain that allows that. "And when adolescent girls see the way men react a certain type of dress, then they dress that way for the reaction which in turn makes them feel happy. Which is really molding their lives to what a man wants. Where is the girl power in that?" It starts very young. Go into any Toys R Us. It's still the 1950's out there. Kitchen sets, dress up, make up kits...the list goes on. Acts like Britney just continue the stereotype. Someone wrote me and I realized that I had painted with a broad brush. I in no way think all women are like Britney. However, I do stand by my statement that if the majority of women were really interested, they could take power from the men. It wouldn't be easy, but you could do it. Shows on MTV do the same thing. What normal male wouldn't stop surfing when he see's bleachers full of hard (soft) bodies in bikinis? Lots of men are afraid of strong women. Say, someone like Ani DeFranco. For a lot of men, a relationship with someone like her would be impossible because she gets what she goes after. She's goal oriented. (At least in her business life) Acts like Spears just make it tougher for women all around. j. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:32:29 -0600 From: LouAnn Muhm Subject: Re: MM:talk about -SEX APPEAL!!!! Wow! Two totally missed jokes in a row. You must be a blast at parties. That's the joke--it is INTENTIONALLY misspelled. Sar- from sarcasm, and Chasm---like areally big, wide divide. That's what is funny about it! > From: "Jessica Boyer" > Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:41:40 -0600 > To: "LouAnn Muhm" , "'MM'" > Subject: Re: MM:talk about -SEX APPEAL!!!! > > spelling: a skill completely inaccessible to some. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "LouAnn Muhm" > To: "'MM'" > Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 5:10 PM > Subject: Re: MM:talk about -SEX APPEAL!!!! > > >>> i think Gregory J. Willms is absolutely right. i can even forgive him > for >>> rubbing in his high IQ. >>> >>> :) >> >> Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who >> doesn't get it. :) >> >> Evilly, >> LouAnn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:26:48 -0500 From: Gary Jacques Subject: MM: Evil Speaks Of all the interpretations of songs I have read on this list, this one takes 1st prize. Man oh man. This song is about Don's new shoes he bought in Nashville and the way he feels when he's walking down the street in them. As for to loud? The volume on this song is perfect. The harmonica in the background is the best blowout harmonica I've heard since The Yardbirds. I will always remember an interview with John Lennon. This guy from some radio station started asking all these deep questions about some song, and asked John "So what does it mean? And John said, Nothing." It's just words tossed around with my experience." Funny thing about music. A song can take on many meaning over the course of a lifetime, depending on the circumstance de jour. The greatest songs are the ones that mean 100 different things to 100 different people. EG - -----Original Message----- From: Danalee7@aol.com [mailto:Danalee7@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 1:11 AM To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: Flaming Red-current thread summary n the hopes of working this into PATTY GRIFFIN content, is the song Flaming Red about being raped? cos that line "nothing can please usssss" and she drags it out...it sounds like she's almost ANGRY at a rape or a victimization of some such just because she wore something provacatively. am i the only one who feels this? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:42:26 -0500 From: "Willms, Gregory J." Subject: MM: RE: Come on.... If women want to make money using their bodies, in whatever fashion, that's fine with me. I won't fall for it, but it's fine with me. I don't have a problem with strippers and whores, I have a problem with strippers and whores that complain about not getting respect. And sorry ladies, but as long as women are doing it and men are paying for it, all women will be stereotyped. It goes the same for us men... as long as there are disgusting caveman rapists, all men will be considered animals. And don't try to tell me that men aren't stereotyped. Just a few months ago I was sitting in my ACURA in a parking lot waiting for my WIFE and playing GOLF on my HANDHELD COMPUTER. There was a woman in a minivan next to me who, when she saw me, started her van, pulled out, drove down the aisle about 8 spots, and parked again. Was I offended? You bet your ass I was f*cking offended. None of you have ever seen me, but on a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being someone in a J. Crew catalog and 1 being your prototypical rapist), I like to think I'm pushing 8 or 9. Not because I'm gorgeous, but just because of my attire and grooming. I wasn't wearing a mustard-stained undershirt or driving a van with no windows. And even if I was, her actions still would've pissed me off. It goes beyond appearance though. That woman evidently truly believed that I was not only capable of but intent on doing her harm. This whole debate has turned into a fight against stereotypes, which is entirely pointless. What more could I have done to let that woman know that I wasn't interested in her? Nothing. As much as we all hate them, stereotypes will not go away. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. It's a risk, and most people aren't willing to take it. Hence, men are animals and women are whores. - -----Original Message----- From: diamondmask@juno.com [mailto:diamondmask@juno.com] Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 9:24 PM To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: Come on.... I wasn't going to continue weighing in on this, but I gotta. The attitude that there is something wrong with the way Britney Spears dresses is the very attitude that gets women mistreated and raped. Sorry. Women get raped because some guy has a screw loose in the head. Women get mistreated because they put up with it. Leave. Think about that for a minute. You wonder why women are psycho? We're' psycho because we are told when we are young to grow up and be nice girls, while our fathers pat our brothers on the back for having more than one girlfriend Well then, if that's the case, how about teaching those little girls that it's not equal? Instead of Barbie, and dress up, how about this is what men are about, this is what women are about? Why train little girls for marriage and a dream of 1950 sitcom happiness when we all know that just isn't going to happen? How about telling girls what life is like? Brittney is just an example. You can make a lot of money by whoring yourself up. Madonna has made a freakin' fortune doing the same thing, but she knew that going in, and she makes no bones about it. Men get stupid at the sight of a young, hard body. Period. Through in cleavage, both breast and buttock, and you got a winning combo. Now we're saying that it's not okay for Brine Spears to dress they way she wants. Why? What is all this for? What is wrong with the female body? What is wrong with posing for playboy? Someone please tell me! What is so wrong with being a women! It's just fine that Britney dresses the way she does. The way she hump dances, and the way she uses her eyes and tongue to show how interested she is in doing every guy who's watching. That's her music. That's her money maker. Maybe someday she'll find the people that will exploit her talent, which I'm willing to bet she has a lot of. Good God. There is nothing wrong with the female body! You guys have all the power! There are more of you than there are of "us". If you really wanted change, you'd back candidates that would do it for you. You'd vote. (More men vote than women) You could kick our asses if you really wanted to. Makes some of us men wonder if you really want to be truly equal. Britney is just making money from sex. Or the illusion of it. The songs are drivel. They don't "mean" anything. It's corporate music put to the latest drum backing with good looking kids, of all colors, writhing around. But that's ok. It's the nature of the current beast. And as long as you're spending the bucks on throwaway music, it will continue. I've spent my share of money on crap music believe me. But please don't ask what's wrong with being a woman when the subject is dry humping her dance partner with come get me eyes. Don't talk about women being "powerful" when they still equate their power with seducing men. It just doesn't wash. john ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:45:38 -0800 (PST) From: David Tumbarello Subject: Re: MM: Flaming Red-current thread summary The current discussion is exactly what Patty is singing about in the song Flaming Red. In fact, the subject is also addressed on that CD in the songs Change and Tony and is finally resolved in Peter Pan. So what is the subject that I'm referring to? It is the idea that you cannot know someone from their outward appearance, from their clothes or sexual orientation or itty bitty facts like this. No. You can only know someone by meeting them face to face and making their presence meaningful to you. Peter Pan, which contains for me the most profound lyrics on this CD, is about someone who is ready to say goodbye to Peter Pan, a pixie that relies on blending in with the night, and disappearing into the background. She says goodbye to her youth, who may have chosen clothes and makeup and mannerisms to "fit in" with the crowd. No more blending in, she might say, it is time to define oneself as an adult. Tony is, of course, about regret for not knowing someone. Staring over his shoulder instead of greeting him and knowing him face to face. Again, the theme of superficial knowledge about someone does not mean you know someone. The song Change contains the same theme. Maybe even Big Daddy. My take on that song is that Big Daddy is retarded and the kids literally made fun of him repeatedly at the park and one day saw him catch a fish and have a celebration. (I get a bit bothered hearing this song now, since reading the interpretation on this list where the fish is not a fish (sometimes a cigar is not a cigar...). But I prefer my interpretation.) Which brings me to Flaming Red, a song about red shoes. The protagonist of the song is wearing red shoes and bought a candle and empathizes with a woman who was raped and killed who also wore red shoes. I would like to think that the author of the song is saying that what a person wears does not make them responsible for violence that happens to them. The singer takes on a masculine persona "Stupid girl / She was dressed like / She deserved everything that she got." The tone of the song conveys pain and violence, but now her violence is directed towards the cruel world that would do this. Dave Tumbarello - --- Danalee7@aol.com wrote: > n the hopes of working this into PATTY GRIFFIN > content, is the song Flaming > > Red about being raped? cos that line "nothing can > please usssss" and she > > drags it out...it sounds like she's almost ANGRY at > a rape or a > > victimization of some such just because she wore > something provacatively. am > > i the only one who feels this? > > I would say that this song sums it up pretty well- > it is exactly the > situation you all have been chewing on the the past > few days. It is on my > less fave Patty song list because it is not my fave > subject I guess and it is > also appropriately too loud and rowdy for me, but > it is very accurate. As > usual, she nailed it and I can hold the song in > high esteem for that. > {Don't flame me for sacrilege, I love probably 95 % > of Patty's songs and that > is a really high ratio for me for all of the > singer-songwriters that I love. } > Dana in Berkeley > > "She deserved everything that she got. " Patty Griffin Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards. http://movies.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V6 #98 ********************************