From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V6 #38 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.quackquack.net/pattyg * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com * then click "tour" and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V4 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Wednesday, February 6 2002 Volume 06 : Number 038 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: Used CD's ["Mike Acerbo" ] MM: Re: New vs. used. [Rongrittz@aol.com] MM: two more cents on royalties [Amy Silver ] MM: Patty on ebay ["Eugene Wendland" ] MM: SPEAKING OF TOURING.... [Kaycee973@aol.com] MM: RE: two more cents on royalties ["alan.teather" ] MM: New vs. Used (from the man who started it) ["Israelson Family" ] MM: patty posters? ["Molly Marko" ] MM: RE: Re: touring and new cds [rodnorton@acsworld.net (Rodney Norton)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 01:30:18 -0500 From: "Mike Acerbo" Subject: MM: Used CD's Well said Richard!! I don't buy used cd's myself but I have no problem with anyone that does. It can only end up helping the artist if the buyer likes the material and becomes a fan in the future. Let's face it, how many of us have made PG tapes for other people to listen to? Do you consider that ripping the artist off? They don't make anything off of the tapes and cd's we burn for eachother. Just my thoughts...I can't wait for the new cd....I desperately tried finding a promo copy today to no avail. I'm determined to get my hands on it before it comes out.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 07:25:00 EST From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: MM: Re: New vs. used. >> Can I assume that those who don't buy used cds also refuse to buy used books? << No, you cannot assume that. He didn't ask about used books. Nor did he ask about used cars. He asked about used CDs. I guess I feel differently about often struggling musicians than I do about huge car companies. >> For those with no minds, here's the deal. When you buy something, it is yours to do what you want with, including selling it. << Wow, really? That means once I buy my legitimate copy of "1000 Kisses" when it comes out, I can make dozens of copies on my CD burner and sell them? Neat!! Look, the guy asked if we thought he was wrong, and even indicated that HE had some moral indecision about it. I told him why I thought he was wrong. If someone doesn't want an answer, they shouldn't ask the question. RG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 08:59:28 -0500 From: Amy Silver Subject: MM: two more cents on royalties Just to underscore one of Rich's points that I don't think has been made before: artists who aren't selling millions of copies of records make their money off touring, not record sales or airplay. Christine Lavin had a great editorial in the Washington Post several years ago when the Napster controversy was fresh. She said she'd love people to steal and give away as much of her music as possible, so that her shows would all be packed, because that's where her living comes from. Steve Earle has said that by touring he makes enough money to subsidize his record company (E2) and put out not only his records, but those of his other artists. The problem in the music industry has been that it's a winner-take-all game, where the corporations control distribution and airplay and a few artists get rich while the majority of talented musicians can hardly make a living at it. I think the internet will increasingly provide a level playing field by doing an end-run around retail distribution. What I'd really like to see -- and I'm not kidding! -- is a way to send money directly to Patty! Maybe on PattyGriffin.net: "click here to send Patty $20 through PayPal." Wouldn't it be cool if we could all arrange to keep our geniuses happy, healthy, and working, whether or not they happen to come up with a 3:30 minute song that fits MTV's flavor of the month? I'll shut up now. Amy >. Trust me, all things considered: She would >rather have you buy the CD, become a fan, and attend one of her shows so >she can finally start making REAL money. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 08:55:20 -0500 From: "Eugene Wendland" Subject: MM: Patty on ebay Hi all There's a "Patty Griffin, live and rare" cd for sale again on ebay. Didn't ebay put a stop to selling these bootlegs? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1511140102 e. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 09:10:49 EST From: Kaycee973@aol.com Subject: MM: SPEAKING OF TOURING.... IF THE WAY THAT THE ARTISTS MAKE MONEY IS THROUGH THEIR TOURS.. WHY DOESNT PATTY GRIFFIN TOUR MORE? I HAVE HAD 2 REALISTIC OPPORTUNITIES TO SEE HER. ONCE WAS IN A VERY SMALL VENUE IN THE VILLAGE (NYC). AND ANOTHER WHICH I COULDNT MAKE WAS WHEN SHE OPENED FOR THE DIXIE CHICKS LAST APRIL. I HAVE LOOKED AT JEN'S TOUR PAGE AND IT DOESNT LOOK LIKE THERE ARE ANY PLANNED. HAS ANYONE HEARD ANY INFO? THE ONE AND ONLY TIME I SAW HERE WAS MY FIRST TIME EVER HEARING HER. I NEVER EVEN HEARD OF HER BEFORE AND MY FRIEND ENDED UP WITH AN EXTRA TICKET.. SO I WENT. I FELL IN LOVE. I WENT OUT THE NEXT DAY AND BOUGHT THE CD.. LIVING WITH GHOSTS. THAT WAS ABOUT 4 YEARS AGO. I WOULD LOVE TO SEE HER AGAIN.. BUT TRAVELLING ISNT REALLY AN OPTION SINCE I DONT HAVE A CAR. TAXIS AND SUBWAYS ARE THE WAY I GO. :0) SO... IF ANYONE THAT HAS ANY INFLUENCE IS LISTENING.. BRING PATTY TO NYC! PLEASE! ~KIM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 15:11:30 -0000 From: "alan.teather" Subject: MM: RE: two more cents on royalties Amy has hit on a good point there. Over here in the UK we can do direct debits and standing orders to pay bills and support our fave charities so why not to artists who we like? Maybe someone could think of a legal way to set this up and in return the artists could give out advance copies of cd's or better seats at bigger gigs, a select piece of tour memorabilia etc. A sort of loyalty scheme where you pay so much each month and in return you get something maybe one or twice a year that is more dear to you than the money you are sending. It needn't be much, say $3~$4 a month. That way if a lot of people did this you could be altruistic and support your fave artist who in turn for being helped with the food / rent / petrol bills etc could provide a REAL special memento for you. Take care Ol' Rhinohide Who do you know who would like some extra income now the credit cards are biting? Have them email me for details. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org [mailto:owner-mad-mission@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Amy Silver Sent: 06 February 2002 13:59 To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: two more cents on royalties Just to underscore one of Rich's points that I don't think has been made before: artists who aren't selling millions of copies of records make their money off touring, not record sales or airplay. Christine Lavin had a great editorial in the Washington Post several years ago when the Napster controversy was fresh. She said she'd love people to steal and give away as much of her music as possible, so that her shows would all be packed, because that's where her living comes from. Steve Earle has said that by touring he makes enough money to subsidize his record company (E2) and put out not only his records, but those of his other artists. The problem in the music industry has been that it's a winner-take-all game, where the corporations control distribution and airplay and a few artists get rich while the majority of talented musicians can hardly make a living at it. I think the internet will increasingly provide a level playing field by doing an end-run around retail distribution. What I'd really like to see -- and I'm not kidding! -- is a way to send money directly to Patty! Maybe on PattyGriffin.net: "click here to send Patty $20 through PayPal." Wouldn't it be cool if we could all arrange to keep our geniuses happy, healthy, and working, whether or not they happen to come up with a 3:30 minute song that fits MTV's flavor of the month? I'll shut up now. Amy >. Trust me, all things considered: She would >rather have you buy the CD, become a fan, and attend one of her shows so >she can finally start making REAL money. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 10:36:26 EST From: RbSayre@aol.com Subject: MM: NPC:John Mayer In a message dated 2/5/02 10:01:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org writes: > Hi, > > I hate to be annoying bringing up old recommendation posts but was there > a recommendation for John Mayer? I have heard a couple of John Mayer's songs & I totally think that it would be in your best interest to give him a try. His song "83" is fantastic- Don't worry he's not Backstreet Boy-ish. Actually if I had to compare him to anyone, I'd say he's close to the David Gray/Dave Matthews sound. He was just named one of Rolling Stone Magazine's 10 artists that we 'need' peace, rick *look out for me, i seem to be growing better raise high the roof beams* Let's Face It, Kids... rick's webpage *this is my stolen time, my piece of the sky my storyline... my, how it flies..* -tanya donelly ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:18:06 -0500 From: "* Darcie *" Subject: MM: Re: touring and new cds - ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaycee973@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 9:13 AM To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: SPEAKING OF TOURING.... IF THE WAY THAT THE ARTISTS MAKE MONEY IS THROUGH THEIR TOURS.. WHY DOESNT PATTY GRIFFIN TOUR MORE? True - the artist makes most their money off touring. She can tour as much as she wants....she probably hasn't been because she's had no album to support recently; she'll probably start touring the end of April if not May. Also true - artist makes money everytime a song is spun on the air, or a band covers her songs at a show that has an ASCAP or BMI or SESAC sticker on the front door. Also true- Patty has made alotta money having Martina, Emmylou, Reba, Dixie Chicks...and a buncha other artists cover her beautiful songs on their records. So she's doing okay. Here's how I feel bout this new and used shit: I buy both - why? Because if there was an album released long ago, or maybe just a few years ago, I'll go to DiscGoRound and buy it used. If I can get my hands on it, I don't see a problem there. It's just like bootlegging kids. You go to her shows, bootleg a concert, but of course none of us go selling it, we use it for ours and others personal use. If it's a new release, I'm going to Media Play and picking it up. But full price can range anywhere from 12.99 - 18.99 (which i do think is outrageous.) - but the artist is making a few cents or maybe IF THEY ARE VERY LUCKY a couple dollars off that CD. Ani DiFranco makes like $4 bucks on her own stuff. Thats just an unsual thing. Other artists may make 13-18 points (percents) off their album. Which is hardley anything, but you gotta sell some records. Nature of the music business. anyways, that just me talking outloud. ~darc http://www.darcieminerband.com Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 09:00:00 -0800 From: "Israelson Family" Subject: MM: New vs. Used (from the man who started it) First, my apologies to the list purists who are undoubtedly cringing at the volume of NPC/NPG-type posts. I cannot say, however, that I regret inspiring this thread. The debate has been fascinating and informative. Thank you, Ron, for your candor, although comparing me to a shoplifter was a little below the belt. I don't believe I was being "disingenuous," either--I was trolling for honest opinions on the subject, not just rubber stamp approval or some other sort of moral justification. ("Cheap" I can live with!) After reading everybody's comments, I generally feel better about my current practices. Despite appearances to the contrary, I do purchase a fair amount of new CDs, and a reasonable percentage of my used acquisitions has replaced vinyl/cassette versions that were originally purchased new. I make mix tapes for family and friends, and I know with certainty that these mixes stimulated numerous purchases that otherwise would have been unlikely. Also, I am the volunteer disc jockey for many events at my church and I don't just play the "hits," so perhaps I have influenced a few strangers as well. For me, I see the policy regarding used CDs evolving along these lines: ACCEPTABLE: 1) purchasing a used CD that was presumably sold to its original owner at retail 2) making a mix tape/CD to GIVE to someone else 3) selling a CD you don't like back to a record store for cash or credit UNACCEPTABLE: 1) making a tape/CD copy of an ENTIRE album to give to someone else 2) making a mix tape/CD to SELL 3) selling a CD back to a record store after making a copy of some/all of it for yourself BORDERLINE: trafficking in "not for resale" promos, although it appears that the artist is likely to benefit more from the potential album/ticket sales that such unprofitable exposure may bring, compared to the potential "full retail price" sales, etc. that might result if all such promos were destroyed or returned to the record company Peace, Larry I in LA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 13:11:10 EST From: Tricia9999@aol.com Subject: MM: Good article/great cd source Appropriate to current discussion, cdbaby is a great source for independent artists. It is one of the most user friendly, elegant sites I've ever seen and has great music. As you can see in the article below, it is also very artist friendly. http://www.msnbc.com/news/697980.asp Tricia ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 18:34:25 -0000 From: "alan.teather" Subject: MM: RE: Good article/great cd source I've ordered from CD Baby 3 times now and the slowest they delivered to the UK was 4 days. Fastest was 2 days 22 hrs 34 mins from sending first email. Totally impressed with their service......especially the white gloves and tears in the eye ( anyone who has ordered will know what I mean) TC Alan Who do you know who would like some extra income now the credit cards are biting? Have them email me for details. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org [mailto:owner-mad-mission@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Tricia9999@aol.com Sent: 06 February 2002 18:11 To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: Good article/great cd source Appropriate to current discussion, cdbaby is a great source for independent artists. It is one of the most user friendly, elegant sites I've ever seen and has great music. As you can see in the article below, it is also very artist friendly. http://www.msnbc.com/news/697980.asp Tricia ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 13:43:26 -0500 From: Stephen Golato Subject: MM: OT: Ryan Adams I wanted to thank the list and all of you who suggested listening Ryan Adams. Some people said to get Gold, some said to try Heartbreaker, and others recommended starting with Whiskeytown. I didn't know which one to try first. I chose Heartbreaker because it was in between Whiskeytown and the new polished sound of Gold from what I understand. And someone said it was more like LWG than FR in comparison with Patty. So I chose to try Heartbreaker first. I love it. Thanks. I have another question though. The first song "To Be Young" has a bit of a different sound than the rest of the CD. I like it. I like both sounds very much. I was wondering if Whiskeytown was more like the upbeat and loose "honkytonk-ish? " To Be Young" sound or if Gold was more like the "To Be Young " sound. Or neither. I can see myself listening to Heartbreaker for many years without getting tired of it or finding it dated. The women singing with him on different tracks are also very good. May have to branch out and try their solo stuff. Looking forward to Patty's new record... Steve "Don' t just exist. Live." *************************************************************************** This electronic mail transmission contains confidential and/or privileged information intended only for the person(s) named. Any use, distribution, copying or disclosure by another person is strictly prohibited. *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 15:17:46 -0500 From: "Molly Marko" Subject: MM: patty posters? Hey all! I was just wondering if anyone has ever seen patty posters for sale anywhere? I know that a friend of mine from high school had a poster and it was the LWG cover but I never knew how or where she got it... Just curious :) Thanks, Molly _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 21:05:52 -0500 From: rodnorton@acsworld.net (Rodney Norton) Subject: MM: RE: Re: touring and new cds Speaking of artists touring in support of newly released music . . . . . . . When might we see a new Darcie CD??? C'mon Darcie help a fellow Central PA'er out. Just a ETA???? Rodney M. Norton Norton Computer Consulting 1711 Back Maitland Road Lewistown, PA 17044 (717) 248-1019 rodnorton@acsworld.net - -----Original Message----- From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org [mailto:owner-mad-mission@smoe.org] On Behalf Of * Darcie * Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 11:18 AM To: MM Subject: MM: Re: touring and new cds - ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaycee973@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 9:13 AM To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: SPEAKING OF TOURING.... IF THE WAY THAT THE ARTISTS MAKE MONEY IS THROUGH THEIR TOURS.. WHY DOESNT PATTY GRIFFIN TOUR MORE? True - the artist makes most their money off touring. She can tour as much as she wants....she probably hasn't been because she's had no album to support recently; she'll probably start touring the end of April if not May. Also true - artist makes money everytime a song is spun on the air, or a band covers her songs at a show that has an ASCAP or BMI or SESAC sticker on the front door. Also true- Patty has made alotta money having Martina, Emmylou, Reba, Dixie Chicks...and a buncha other artists cover her beautiful songs on their records. So she's doing okay. Here's how I feel bout this new and used shit: I buy both - why? Because if there was an album released long ago, or maybe just a few years ago, I'll go to DiscGoRound and buy it used. If I can get my hands on it, I don't see a problem there. It's just like bootlegging kids. You go to her shows, bootleg a concert, but of course none of us go selling it, we use it for ours and others personal use. If it's a new release, I'm going to Media Play and picking it up. But full price can range anywhere from 12.99 - 18.99 (which i do think is outrageous.) - but the artist is making a few cents or maybe IF THEY ARE VERY LUCKY a couple dollars off that CD. Ani DiFranco makes like $4 bucks on her own stuff. Thats just an unsual thing. Other artists may make 13-18 points (percents) off their album. Which is hardley anything, but you gotta sell some records. Nature of the music business. anyways, that just me talking outloud. ~darc http://www.darcieminerband.com Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V6 #38 ********************************