From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V5 #205 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.quackquack.net/pattyg * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com * then click "tour" and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V4 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Thursday, August 16 2001 Volume 05 : Number 205 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: Re:To what degree... / Album casualties [FoxDugal@aol.com] MM: label sympathy [mark_fitzgerald@keybank.com] MM: RE: label sympathy ["Connell, Michael P" ] MM: Re: Silver Bell [FoxDugal@aol.com] RE: MM: label sympathy / the latest casualty ["Jason Burton" With the usual caveat that I have no first-hand knowledge about the inner > workings of the recording "business," I'm shocked by the volume of posts > that seem sympathetic to the label. I don't know any Interscope employees > well enough to call them a-holes, but my opinion of their business decision > is that it was wrong-headed and short-sighted. > > My impression of the situation is this: LWG and FR were probably both > unprofitable, but their budgets were almost certainly modest. Therefore, the > reputed weak sales of these discs were in no way endangering the viability > of the company. In the meantime, Patty's songwriting and performing > abilities were attracting attention throughout the industry, with > high-profile artists covering her songs and moviemakers including her work > in their soundtracks. Furthermore, a savvy company man would be well aware > of the depth and quality of Patty's unreleased material (a lot of the LFML > stuff, for instance). As I see it, this all adds up to Patty being a > relatively unknown artist worth the moderate investment necessary to > maintain a collaborative relationship. Patty may never make American Top 40, > but as long as she continues to write, record and tour, her stature and her > fan base cannot help but grow. I foresee a long and illustrious career for > her, and somebody (just not Interscope Records) is going to make some bucks > along the way, too. > > Larry I in LA > Amen to that. Anyone here heard of Splashdown? They're nothing like Patty, but their CD, Blueshift, suffered a fate similar to that of Silver Bell, and the hellish trappings of Capitol Records pretty much destroyed the band completely. Ironically, the band seems to have a very marketable, versatile sound. www.splashdown.net if you want to read the story. They ended up secretly distributing free Blueshift copies via Castle von Buhler Records. Illegal, but fun. Russ P.S. - I try, and I try, but I can't decipher all the lyrics to Twisted Road. Little help? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 07:03:30 -0400 From: mark_fitzgerald@keybank.com Subject: MM: label sympathy >With the usual caveat that I have no first-hand knowledge about the inner >workings of the recording "business," I'm shocked by the volume of posts >well enough to call them a-holes, but my opinion of their business decision >.is that it was wrong-headed and short-sighted. >My impression of the situation is this: LWG and FR were probably both >unprofitable, but their budgets were almost certainly modest. Therefore, the >reputed weak sales of these discs were in no way endangering the viability >of the company. In the meantime, Patty's songwriting and performing >abilities were attracting attention throughout the industry, with >high-profile artists covering her songs and moviemakers including her work >in their soundtracks. Well said, and exactly true. I think the main problem with the labels today (and business in general) is the general consensus that if something doesn't make a lot of money right away, then it's not worth doing. I was watching VH1 the other day and saw (don't laugh) the REO Speedwagon "Behind the Music." I was a huge fan of theirs back in the late 70's and was always rooting for them to make it big. It took them eleven albums before they had a hit. What record company would be willing support an artist to that extent today? None. You get one shot, and if it doesn't stick, you're out the door. And like you said, the reason REO was able to survive on the label was because they weren't costing the record company much, they toured incessantly (if you call driving around in a van playing small clubs touring), and their records generally recouped expenses. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 07:24:11 -0400 From: "Connell, Michael P" Subject: MM: RE: label sympathy Fellow oldtimer Mark said: > Well said, and exactly true. I think the main problem with the labels > today (and business in general) is the general consensus that if something > doesn't make a lot of money right away, then it's not worth doing. I was > watching VH1 the other day and saw (don't laugh) the REO Speedwagon > "Behind the Music." I was a huge fan of theirs back in the late 70's and > was always rooting for them to make it big. Six or seven years ago I saw them and Cheap Trick at the New York State Fair in Syracuse. It was a fabulous two shows (REO opened for Cheap Trick), and the Syracuse newspaper called it the Concert Of The Year for the Syracuse region. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:30:44 EDT From: Mooodeee@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: label sympathy Yes!! I totally agree with Mark here. Major labels used to be more committed to artist development. Now majors are looking for a fast, relatively easy, economical returns. Indies, provided they have the money to fuel the efforts, are much more committed to the artists and are willing to develop them as far as they can with what little funds they sometimes have to work with. Consider also that Patty has had many offers from labels for her current project. Consider also that she still hasn't signed with any of them. What do you think might be happening here? Now this is speculation here, but consider that she's holding out for a company willing to give her a minimum of a quarter of a million dollars advance with 100% publishing rights. Consider that advances like that are hard to come by, and that majors hate giving up publishing because when does the artist ever have the time to push their stuff to TV and film on their own when they are busy touring and writing? Consider that it costs in the neighborhood of $300-500k in capital and promotional expenses to record, print, release and promote a major label CD en masse. Now you've spent 3/4 of a million dollars. Consider that Soundscan reports on LWG and FR are at 100k units each. Consider the most a label sees from each unit sold is close to $8 a unit. By the time cuts are taken from all the retail store and distribution middle men and royalties are paid, you would be lucky to break even. As for the labels willing to sign her, I wouldn't think that not having the desire but not the liquidity to sign someone as gifted and moving as Patty is something that should be considered detestable. I think it would be a matter of simple economics. As far as whatstheirface shelving "Silver Bell" my guess is that they would rather take the loss than to risk moving forward on a CD that perhaps the outside the hotshot independent radio promoters and consultants "PASSED" on. If those big boys wont touch you, you're screwed for getting any radio, and so are your chances of recoupment at those levels. What I'm suggesting here is that maybe the "not hearing a hit" stuff was an external obstacle decided from the vantage of the top independent radio promoters that are in control of radio, and not a decision of the label itself. As for the music that sells $$$ billions being teeniebop slutty pediphile crap being what dominates our radios and our music industry, consider the phrase "Garbage in--Garbage out." If the masses actually put their $$$ money where good taste was (like they used to back in the day), our lives would be MUCH happier! I think the music from the era that pot was passed around wildly was one of the best. Hey I have an idea!!!! LOL :-) > . I think the main problem with the labels > today (and business in general) is the general consensus that if something > doesn't make a lot of money right away, then it's not worth doing. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:43:16 -0400 From: "Scheiner, Andy" Subject: MM: RE: Re: reply from patty's label Coincidentally, there was a short article in this weeks issue of CVille (Charlottesville's local news and arts weekly) on ATO records. I know very little of DM, DMB and ATO (one of the very few Charlottesvilleans who doesn't, apparently), but from what I gathered from the article, ATO is a Charlottesville-based label in which DM holds a major financial stake, so, presumably, his input would be taken seriously. The article details how ATO resurrected the career of David Gray whose ATO release, White Ladder, has gone platinum. He had previously released four albums with other labels (Virgin/EMI, Caroline), but with little commercial success. The ATO exec who is quoted in the article sounds very open to giving artists their artistic freedom and the time and resources to develop a viable, sustaining audience. Here's hoping they can do the same for Patty (provided the preliminary ATO discussions come to fruition). - Andy - -----Original Message----- From: Kristen [mailto:kc0714@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 7:14 AM To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: MM: Re: reply from patty's label Hi folks, I never post but have been reading for a long time. I've loved Patty's music since she showed up on the scene in '96. It sucks about Patty's label dropping her, but there is hope. I don't know what became of it, but when Patty performed in Charlottesville a couple of weeks ago, Dave Matthews was back in town for the day and he took Patty out for dinner to discuss her possibly signing on with his label, ATO Records. As I said, I don't know how the meeting went, but he did also make an appearance at the show later that night, and he is a big fan of hers ever since they met during the taping of Austin City Limits last year. I'm hoping all went well, and we'll see Patty's name showing up soon as a new artist on the ATO roster. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:24:38 EDT From: FoxDugal@aol.com Subject: MM: Re: Silver Bell What I don't understand is since the freaking record company already paid to make the album, wouldn't it make far more sense to just distribute it and make whatever money they can? From what I can tell, CD's that are lightly distributed are sent one or two at a time, and if they sell, well, they send more. For example (although this may not be a very good example), I work in the Wal-Mart electronics department, and was shocked to discover that we actually carry Ani's Revelling/Reckoning, and even more shocked to discover that we carry Jonatha Brooke's Steady Pull. When one sells (given that it is Wal-Mart, therefore that doesn't happen too often) we get another to replace it. So, unless no one bought even the original shipment, what have they got to lose? Someone fill me in... Russ 'I want a life-size, chocolate version of you.' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:33:11 -0500 From: "Jason Burton" Subject: RE: MM: label sympathy / the latest casualty If you haven't heard yet, Wilco was just let go by Reprise because the label feels their new album is going to ruin their career. What kind of world are we living in???? Jason Webmaster: www.creekdipping.com - Victoria Williams, Mark Olson & The Creekdippers www.singlecollector.com - Hard to find CDs - -----Original Message----- From: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org [mailto:owner-mad-mission@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Mooodeee@aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 8:31 AM To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: Re: MM: label sympathy Yes!! I totally agree with Mark here. Major labels used to be more committed to artist development. Now majors are looking for a fast, relatively easy, economical returns. Indies, provided they have the money to fuel the efforts, are much more committed to the artists and are willing to develop them as far as they can with what little funds they sometimes have to work with. Consider also that Patty has had many offers from labels for her current project. Consider also that she still hasn't signed with any of them. What do you think might be happening here? Now this is speculation here, but consider that she's holding out for a company willing to give her a minimum of a quarter of a million dollars advance with 100% publishing rights. Consider that advances like that are hard to come by, and that majors hate giving up publishing because when does the artist ever have the time to push their stuff to TV and film on their own when they are busy touring and writing? Consider that it costs in the neighborhood of $300-500k in capital and promotional expenses to record, print, release and promote a major label CD en masse. Now you've spent 3/4 of a million dollars. Consider that Soundscan reports on LWG and FR are at 100k units each. Consider the most a label sees from each unit sold is close to $8 a unit. By the time cuts are taken from all the retail store and distribution middle men and royalties are paid, you would be lucky to break even. As for the labels willing to sign her, I wouldn't think that not having the desire but not the liquidity to sign someone as gifted and moving as Patty is something that should be considered detestable. I think it would be a matter of simple economics. As far as whatstheirface shelving "Silver Bell" my guess is that they would rather take the loss than to risk moving forward on a CD that perhaps the outside the hotshot independent radio promoters and consultants "PASSED" on. If those big boys wont touch you, you're screwed for getting any radio, and so are your chances of recoupment at those levels. What I'm suggesting here is that maybe the "not hearing a hit" stuff was an external obstacle decided from the vantage of the top independent radio promoters that are in control of radio, and not a decision of the label itself. As for the music that sells $$$ billions being teeniebop slutty pediphile crap being what dominates our radios and our music industry, consider the phrase "Garbage in--Garbage out." If the masses actually put their $$$ money where good taste was (like they used to back in the day), our lives would be MUCH happier! I think the music from the era that pot was passed around wildly was one of the best. Hey I have an idea!!!! LOL :-) > . I think the main problem with the labels > today (and business in general) is the general consensus that if something > doesn't make a lot of money right away, then it's not worth doing. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:37:50 +0000 From: "Randall Stevens" Subject: MM: Indeed, Wilco is no longer with Reprise. Here's the article. here's the article off of wilco's site if you want to read it. - scott Wilco's shot in the arm Chicago band exits label as new opportunities head its way By Greg Kot Tribune rock critic Published August 15, 2001 Wilco, one of America's most acclaimed rock bands, has signed a deal allowing it to leave Reprise Records, after the label rejected the band's latest record. Ten years ago, such a dramatic parting might have signaled the end of a band's career, but for Wilco's founding singer-guitarist Jeff Tweedy, speaking from his Northwest Side home after signing the agreement, "It feels like Christmas. I don't feel victimized, I feel liberated." As part of the exit deal with Reprise, Wilco was allowed to sever a contract that called for the band to record several more albums for the label. The deal also enabled Wilco to buy back the album the Chicago quintet had just completed for Reprise, "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot." Tweedy arrives in New York on Wednesday to weigh offers from more than 30 labels, ranging from small independents to major corporations, who have offered to put out the new record. It was the adventurousness of the music on "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" that caused the Wilco-Reprise relationship to unravel over the last two months. Tweedy had come to the label seven years ago in the latter days of his tenure with the roots-rock band Uncle Tupelo, and has gone on to make a series of increasingly more ambitious albums with Wilco, including two "Mermaid Avenue" side projects with Billy Bragg that combined archival Woody Guthrie lyrics with new music. The music on "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" is rich in Wilco's trademark pop melodies, while more deeply investigating the experimental textures that began to creep into the band's last two albums for Reprise, "Summerteeth" (1999) and "Being There" (1996). When the band shipped the record to Reprise in June, the band's A&R [artist and repertoire] representative, Mio Vukovic, "asked us to make some changes," Tweedy says. "He told us more things needed to be done for it to be finished, and we said, 'This is it. We're done with this record and we're happy with it.' " Tweedy's take-it-or-leave-it stance did not sway Vukovic's supervisor, David Kahne, the executive vice president of A&R at Warner Brothers Inc., according to several sources close to the band. "He said that the record was so bad it would kill Wilco's career," one source said. Kahne was calling the shots at the label in a power vacuum, left when longtime President Howie Klein resigned. Klein departed June 29, the same day Kahne was telling Wilco he was rejecting the band's record. Klein's eventual replacement, Tom Whalley, has still not left his old job at Interscope Records to take over as chairman of Warner Brothers Inc. The bottom line Though Wilco has been a profitable band for Reprise -- its previous albums have sold 112,000 to 200,000 copies domestically (sales on their most recent records worldwide have been estimated at 500,000), and the band consistently plays to audiences of 2,000 in most major markets -- it apparently was not profitable enough in a slumping industry. Record sales declined 8 percent in the first half of the year, and Reprise's parent company, Warner Music Group, is in the midst of laying off 600 employees following the purchase of its parent company, Time Warner, by America Online. Yet industry sources were stunned that Wilco was cut loose so quickly. "My God, it's a sad, sad day," said one Warner executive, who like others in the company, asked for their names not to be used. "Wilco is one of America's most beloved bands. One of our people said that Wilco is to America what Radiohead is to Europe, because they make great, adventurous records that people anticipate hearing for months ahead of time. "This band has a big audience, and they could have had a bigger audience. It's not like they weren't growing, but in a world where 'N Sync sells 2 million records in a week, it creates a false expectation for other bands, and Wilco paid the price for breaking the mold instead of fitting into one." Michael Krumper, executive vice president of Artemis Records in New York, was equally nonplussed. "Reprise should have been honored to have a guy like this [Tweedy] on the label," Krumper said. "Artists like him were supposedly the foundation of what Warner Brothers was about in the first place." "This didn't need to happen, but it did, and it's the worst example yet of what has happened in the record business the last few years," said a source at Reprise. "Executives now think they are more important than the artists. And it's so wrong. Who was president of Capitol Records when the Beatles signed? Who remembers? And what does it matter? The arrogance and the ignorance -- that's the story of the record business." Changing times That wasn't always the case at Warner and Reprise, which nurtured talents such as Neil Young, Randy Newman, Ry Cooder, Joni Mitchell and Van Morrison under the supervision of executives such as Mo Ostin and Lenny Waronker. These executives viewed artists as investments, who would grow and flourish over decades. "The idea was to cultivate artists, even if it they didn't have hits," said Bob Merlis, an ex-Warner executive. "There was an aura at the label which brought us bands like R.E.M., who signed with us because Warner was the label that had Van Dyke Parks," a cult artist who had recorded with Brian Wilson. "Now the corporate environment is completely different," Merlis said. "The attitude once was, let an artist make a great record, and we'll find a way to sell it. Now it's all about cost per unit sold analysis." Even under that more stringent criterion, there were executives within Warner who believed that Wilco had a shot at selling 500,000 copies of "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot," even without widespread radio airplay, simply because the band's reputation was so formidable. "If not now, what better time for an artist to put out a record that breaks the mold," said one label source. "It's a great time for people to stretch and test the water, because it's been proven with the success of Radiohead that people are willing to accept something that's more adventurous and outside the mainstream norm." "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" is not only adventurous, it's likely to end up as one of the year's most acclaimed records. "This record is so good, it's scary," said one industry source who has heard it. "It's a totally artistic statement that captures the band at the height of its powers, which means they're willing to take chances wildly -- to me that's the true value of music. But I had an inkling when I heard it, that they're gambling their career." "To me, their previous album [`Summerteeth'] was a masterpiece," said Norm Winer, program director of WXRT, "and this one sounds right there, if not more so." Controlling destiny For Tweedy, the prospect of becoming a free agent is an enticing one. With the Internet and independent labels offering a viable alternative to the increasingly corporate environment of the major labels, Wilco can control its own destiny. "I like the idea of owning our records," Tweedy said. "It's embarrassing to see how many offers we've gotten in the last few weeks. It's exciting, and it makes me feel we can do something unprecedented without compromising our music. The world is a lot different place now than when we first signed our deal with Reprise. Back then, it didn't seem possible to do something like this. But now I believe our efforts to be self-sufficient are completely realizable." Tweedy said he hopes to have "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" out by year's end. But in any case, the band will begin its fall tour as scheduled in September, which will likely wind up with a club date in Chicago. "Career-ending this record may be," Tweedy said with a laugh, "in which case I've never had a career [in the conventional sense]. But we've booked a tour and we're going to play in front of a bunch of people, and I can't wait for them to hear the songs on this record." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V5 #205 *********************************