From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V5 #203 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.quackquack.net/pattyg * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com * then click "tour" and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V4 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Wednesday, August 15 2001 Volume 05 : Number 203 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: To what degree are the songs lost? ["Randall Stevens" ] Re: MM: $$$/website ["Randall Stevens" ] RE: MM: $$$/website ["Moody, Bryan" ] MM: The whining on this list ["donhenn" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 05:59:41 +0000 From: "Randall Stevens" Subject: MM: To what degree are the songs lost? I'm not sure what the limitations are on the silver bell songs being OWNED by the record company. For instance, I don't know whether the recordings of these songs are what they own or if it's the actual song itself... writing and all. There's a defiinite difference to the library of congress in terms of type of copyright... PA or SR. I'm a musician, so I should know what is and is not owned by the record company. Unfortunately, I do not know. All that I know is, if the actual writing for 10 or so of my songs were owned by someone else who was refusing to release them, I'd go absolutely Griswald. Either way, I think Patty deserves a nice fat cookie for not ending anyone's life over this. Does anyone who has done their homework more than I have know the answer to how much is owned by "the man"? - RS - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:20:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Douglas J Hitzel Subject: Re: MM: Reply from Patty's label Thank you, Miss LouAnn!! I must say that the last two e-mails have really really been slightly refreshing to hear. I must admit, I am really crushed that Patty's CD has been chucked into back of the storage closet to be (undoubtedly) released ten years down the road when the label feels they can get money on it (sort of like Donna Summer's "I'm A Rainbow" double album that she recorded and the album felt was NOT marketable. Therefore was shoved to the back of the closet, un-released for many many years. Only to recently be brought out. Hmmm, even a BIG pop/disco icon who's brought in TONS and TONS of money can be chucked into the back with an album she made that the record company felt was too "artsy). ANYWAY. I digress... But honestly, all I can say is, it's happened, it's over, and it seems Patty is trying to move on, and I think it's best we do to. I really think all things happen for a reason and that everything works itself out in time. Perhaps it's best Silver Bell not come out now. Maybe it's written in the stars that it's best it come out in ten years, two years, whatever.... Either way, from what I see, Patty is moving forward, and is starting over. And I do NOT agree with Timothy writing that Patty is OWED any career. I'm sorry, but in that case, MANY artists are owed careers. Many people here forget that Patty is not the ONLY artist in this world that is an incredible live, folk performer who is struggling to keep one foot in front of the other. As I see it, Patty has it pretty good compared to many folk artists that are NOT as well off as her, but making do. And yet, it seems they are all making do, and they don't go weeping "why why why" to the press every chance they get. People on here need to learn that the genre of folk/artsy music is never (unless one day, be it, the stars are aligned in some magical order) going to be a MAINSTREAM thing. And yet, these artists chose to work in them. They take what comes with the choice. We all do. I do just have to say that the comment that patty IS owed a career really really upset me. Some people will work their entire life (who are just as talented) to acheive half of what Patty has. Lets just take a few deep breaths and remember that all good things come to those who wait. And as for Patty recording the music she signed up to record, well, actually...go back and re-read some articles. As I remember, Patty buffed up the Living With Ghosts songs and they didn't liek that...they wanted the demos...It seems from day one they have had difficulties coming to any one particular agreement. Lets all just be supportive of Patty in her NEW work. Let her try to put Silver Bell behind her now, concentrate on what she is doing now. Can you imagine what this new record would sound like if she sat in the studio crying "silver bell is gooonnnneee! AHHHH!!! *wail wail wail*"? The album would problably really SUCK... If that's possible. But think about it, maybe? If she sat in a recording stuio pitying herself than, well...I don't know a lot of stuff that is good coming from self pity. Let her move on. And as for the letter sent to interscope. After reading it, I could only laugh at the response. What did you expect? As I see it, the letter, as it were (mispelled, hey, i'm not one to critisize, but i'm not writing a major label) stood to find not much depth in return. Honestly. Would that letter be sent to a magazine to be published to prove a point? Most likely not. Why any different for a recording company? You're writing to people to try and tell them, I as a fan believe that this is a bunch of crap...But you would say it in a way that is so elite and so well done, that they CAN'T dismiss it. When you write a letter such as what was sent, how could one be taken seriously when the other person can't quit laughing? And yes, you are all giggling 'cuz my spelling sucks ass!! LOL. Well I admit that. But anyway. I'm walking in circles now. I just wanted to give my two cents. I didn't think that Miss LouAnn deserved to be bitched at like that. LETS BE NICE!! Cuz otherwise santa ain't bringin' NUTTIN' kiddies... Good things are comin... As always, Douggie "And it seemed to me that something good is coming if you think it should and I don't know where and I don't know how, but I put my head into the clouds..." Amy Corelli - --- LouAnn Muhm wrote: > >I'm not happy with the turn of > >events that led Patty to leave the label. But, > this is business. And it's their > >money. > > > Hear hear!! I can tell you that I am APPALLED (not > appauled--though I enjoy > it every time I get a-Pauled by another post from > our Guinness-loving friend > from Florida) not only at the unreasonable and > hateful tone of the letter to > the record company, but at the atrocious spelling > and grammar. I know that > not everyone is as skilled a writer as I might wish, > but is it that hard to > run spell check? You cannot expect to be taken > seriously in a business > setting if you can't present your ideas in a > professional manner. > > Having said that, I can pretty much guarantee that > there is a typo or > misspelling in this post from me! > > My 2 cents. > > --LouAnn ===== "I don't believe in perfect pairs, it's more about how much you dare." Atoosa Salimi "It's about time you decide if you're gonna fall or fly..." Edie Carey Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 07:19:47 -0400 From: "Thomas H. Kercheval" Subject: Re: MM: Reply from Patty's label > And I do NOT agree with Timothy writing that Patty is > OWED any career. I'm sorry, but in that case, MANY > artists are owed careers. I think Timothy said she "wasn't" owed a career. He was being sarcastic. >Many people here forget that > Patty is not the ONLY artist in this world that is an > incredible live, folk performer who is struggling to > keep one foot in front of the other. As I see it, > Patty has it pretty good compared to many folk artists > that are NOT as well off as her, but making do. In my opinion, some of them deserve to "make do," because they're really not that good. I've seen and listened to a lot of artists; I pretty much know who's out there. And no one, NO ONE really compares to the talent of Patty Griffin. She can't be lumped in with these other artists. From her songwriting to her voice, she is peerless. In my humble opinion, of course. ;-) People on here need to learn that the > genre of folk/artsy music is never (unless one day, be > it, the stars are aligned in some magical order) going > to be a MAINSTREAM thing. And yet, these artists chose > to work in them. They take what comes with the choice. > We all do. I think we realize that. But what about the record company realizing that? They should never have signed her if their aim was to somehow reshape her sound, her look, her style, etc. That seems to be what's happened, and it's happened to so many great artists over the years. I would never expect Patty to have a top 10 single with the kinds of songs she's written (although she could if she set out to write one). I don't know what the record company expected, but, again, Patty was doing what she should have been doing, she was writing the types of things that got her signed in the first place. The problems reflect only on the record company, not on Patty. > I do just have to say that the comment that patty IS > owed a career really really upset me. Oh, come on now. I said that and it was said with a lot of tongue in cheek. Don't take everything so seriously. :-) > And as for Patty recording the music she signed up to > record, well, actually...go back and re-read some > articles. As I remember, Patty buffed up the Living > With Ghosts songs and they didn't liek that...they > wanted the demos... From what I recall, the record company WANTED her to record "LWG" with a full band, but weren't satisfied with the results. It was then PATTY who brought up the idea of releasing the demos, and they went for it. Yes, they were trying to turn her into something she wasn't from day one. > Lets all just be supportive of Patty in her NEW work. > Let her try to put Silver Bell behind her now, > concentrate on what she is doing now. Can you imagine > what this new record would sound like if she sat in > the studio crying "silver bell is gooonnnneee! > AHHHH!!! *wail wail wail*"? The album would problably > really SUCK... > No one's suggesting that she doesn't move on. Anyone who's seen her live recently KNOWS how good the new songs are, and that's an amazing achievement in and of itself. A lot of artists have been totally destroyed by the kinds of things she's gone through. For her to come up with new, even better songs, says a lot about her. The news of what's happened to Silver Bell may be old news to Patty, but to many of us, it's a fresh wound. I for one thought the song "Silver Bell" was one of the best things I've ever heard; songs like Tope of the World, One More Girl, Little God....AMAZING songs. We can only hope they see the light of day at some point... > I just wanted to give my two cents. I didn't think > that Miss LouAnn deserved to be bitched at like that. She was bitched at? I don't remember that at all. My personal email was in response to Timothy's points. > > Good things are comin... > As long as Patty's NEXT album IS released...that's very true.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:21:48 -0400 From: Kerry Subject: MM: $$$/website It would be great if Patty could do what Jonatha Brooke has done... Jonatha was dropped from her major label a few years back - true, they had released her great 10 Cent Wings album, but then dumped her without giving it any promotional chance to catch on. She then started her own label, recorded a live album (low-cost), and offered it for sale on her website. Her fans scooped it right up, she sold enough for a national distributer to pick it up and sell it retail, and eventually made enough to make it possible to finance her most recent studio release. And I hear she's selling more records today than she ever did before, still without the support of a major label, mostly through her fans and her website. Sounds to me like a great way for Patty to kick-start her career...I'd buy a live album from her in a heartbeat... Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:48:34 +0000 From: "Randall Stevens" Subject: Re: MM: $$$/website speaking of jonatha brooke... i saw her on conan o'brien not too long ago and she was unbelievable. i've been meaning to get one of her cds, but i don't know which to start with. i'm tempted to get the live album because i couldn't believe how good she was live. but then i've heard that ten cent wings is her favorite (closest to her heart, she said). any suggestions? scott >From: Kerry >To: "mad-mission@smoe.org" >Subject: MM: $$$/website >Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:21:48 -0400 > >It would be great if Patty could do what Jonatha Brooke has done... > >Jonatha was dropped from her major label a few years back - true, they >had released her great 10 Cent Wings album, but then dumped her without >giving it any promotional chance to catch on. She then started her own >label, recorded a live album (low-cost), and offered it for sale on her >website. Her fans scooped it right up, she sold enough for a national >distributer to pick it up and sell it retail, and eventually made enough >to make it possible to finance her most recent studio release. And I >hear she's selling more records today than she ever did before, still >without the support of a major label, mostly through her fans and her >website. > >Sounds to me like a great way for Patty to kick-start her career...I'd >buy a live album from her in a heartbeat... > >Kerry _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:00:46 -0400 From: "Moody, Bryan" Subject: RE: MM: $$$/website ten cent wings is an amazing CD!!! but, i'd start with Plumb, her first solo CD. Then try Grace in Gravity and Angel in the House, her CDs with the Story(she partnered with Jennifer Kimball) - -----Original Message----- From: Randall Stevens [mailto:southandeighth@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 10:49 AM To: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: Re: MM: $$$/website speaking of jonatha brooke... i saw her on conan o'brien not too long ago and she was unbelievable. i've been meaning to get one of her cds, but i don't know which to start with. i'm tempted to get the live album because i couldn't believe how good she was live. but then i've heard that ten cent wings is her favorite (closest to her heart, she said). any suggestions? scott >From: Kerry >To: "mad-mission@smoe.org" >Subject: MM: $$$/website >Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:21:48 -0400 > >It would be great if Patty could do what Jonatha Brooke has done... > >Jonatha was dropped from her major label a few years back - true, they >had released her great 10 Cent Wings album, but then dumped her without >giving it any promotional chance to catch on. She then started her own >label, recorded a live album (low-cost), and offered it for sale on her >website. Her fans scooped it right up, she sold enough for a national >distributer to pick it up and sell it retail, and eventually made enough >to make it possible to finance her most recent studio release. And I >hear she's selling more records today than she ever did before, still >without the support of a major label, mostly through her fans and her >website. > >Sounds to me like a great way for Patty to kick-start her career...I'd >buy a live album from her in a heartbeat... > >Kerry _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 00:40:42 -0400 From: "donhenn" Subject: MM: The whining on this list MMers & Timothy , Gee , Timothy , it seems to me that if Jenna was whining about the record companies, you were whining just as hard about her , & "all of us" , who act as though Patty and the rest of the world is owed some sort of career. So I guess you're right ! May I whine a bit now ? I always like phrases like "honestly people , ...". Thanks for letting us in on it. That's almost as good as "everyone knows , ......." Venting your criticisms toward a corporation is not nearly as deleterious to our society as doing the same towards individuals when they have not offended you personally. Actually , I believe (rather than "everyone knows" or "honestly people") that corporations should be vigorously criticized for the kind of bottom line mentality that makes non-capitalist undemocratic systems look attractive to so many people. As far as "nobody benefits from these kinds of interactions with label people" ; hopefully , it benefits those companies that realize alienating many potential customers by treating talented artists like "properties" is not good for their long-term profit picture. If I see a CD , or anything else that is a marginal purchase , the name Interscope/Universal will make my decision for me. It is my hope that current Interscope /Universal decision makers will someday join those at Xerox , who gave away a great deal of the major advances in PCs to Apple , & those at IBM who focused on hardware b/c "that's where the money is" , & made Bill Gates the richest man in the world. I don't know who those people were at Xerox & IBM , but I'm sure that their peers in the field do. Must have walked ten million miles Think before you criticize Ten million miles Patty Griffin "Ten Million Miles" Don "Sometimes the whining on this list is unbelievable." . ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V5 #203 *********************************