From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V5 #184 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.quackquack.net/pattyg * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com * then click "tour" and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V4 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Wednesday, August 1 2001 Volume 05 : Number 184 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: MM: Patty being "anti-taping" ["Sarah Stanley" ] MM: Taping, etc. [Richard Challen ] MM: Re: mad-mission-digest V5 #183 ["Kiersten" ] Re: MM: Re: Taping and Bootlegs [MactheMutt@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 16:21:40 -0400 From: "Sarah Stanley" Subject: Re: MM: Patty being "anti-taping" I wasn't at the Birchmere the other night, nor have I ever been there....but it seems as though they are speaking about the major taping equipment - the stuff that takes up a lot of room, makes noise, is cumbersome to haul in and out, etc. Those mic stands that we've seen at stadium shows in the tapers areas that stand 4 feet above everyone's head to get good sound quality. I would assume that these are the reasons, as Dave said, that they would have the "No Recording" policy. Otherwise people would begin to bring that kind of equipment. The equipment that I think we are talking about here is the small hand-held mini-disc recorders and such, the stuff that is not in anyone's way much less recognizable. However, it isn't feasible for a venue to distinguish between types of equipment when posting a rule about recording, so they just say "No Recording" in general so as not to unintentionally invite those big-time tapers. This is probably why there are so many Birchmere (and other similar venues) boots despite the blatant rule. Those tapers most likely were the mini-disc types. I myself hope to get a good recording of the Ark show coming up this Aug. 17 if I can borrow my friend's mini-disc recorder and I would hope that no MMer's take offense to it. As Dave mentioned, no one (that we know of) is doing this for profit and I am certainly not about to go and steal one of Patty's non-copyrighted songs to use as my own on stage somewhere (for god's sake i'm just about to BEGIN guitar lessons!) :) I hope this doesn't become some big taping war....I guess I would just say if you don't agree with it, so be it. Just as long as no one is getting hurt in the process, leave people to their own decisions on the topic. now there's my $.02 (haven't commented on this list in a while! phew!) Sarah ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* "I have never chased the curve. A lot of people will try to dilute you--give your music a nose job or a little bow tie: "Don't perspire now; shave under your arms." But I'm a small vineyard. And I'm not willing to sacrifice the way I make the wine to get into Safeway. You know what I mean?" -Tori Amos >From: Seiji64@aol.com >To: , >Subject: Re: MM: Patty being "anti-taping" >Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 15:33:00 EDT > >Below is a post on "Recording" from the TALK BACK! section of the Birchmere >website (www.birchmere.com), dated 1/10/2001, posted by a representative of >the Birchmere: >====================================================== >Well, the issue of recording shows "for home use" is a touchy one. Yes, >there are many artists who have begun allowing fans to tape their live >shows, yet they are still in the minority. Most Nationally touring acts DO >NOT allow taping (with the exception of Phish, Dave Matthews & a handfull >of other similar acts). Even when an artist does allow recording, the venue >has the final say, as we are the ones who have to deal with the logitics of >taping (i.e. tapers section, checking equipment at door, etc). Also, as we >are a completely seated, general admission venue, we cannot have mic stands >blocking peoples views & we cannot reserve a group of seats for a "Taper >Section". All that said, the majority of the acts we present at The >Birchmere DO NOT allow recording. When we present acts like Victor Wooten >or David Grisman (for example), who normally allow recording, they know >that The Birchmere has a "No Recording" policy & they are fine with it. >There has never been an issue with an! >! > act regarding our "No Recording >" policy. I hope this gives an acceptable explanation of why we have a "No >Recording" policy at The Birchmere. >======================================================= _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 18:00:30 -0400 From: Richard Challen Subject: MM: Taping, etc. Hey all, OK, since it was my post that mentioned Patty's "anti-taping" stance, let me clarify: 1) I didn't get to talk to Patty at the show. She did sign things for us (her road manager took them back to the dressing room) but we never talked face to face. Which is fine, I know she's a shy person and I respect that. So I'm just hypothesizing about her anti-taping stance. HOWEVER... 2) I spoke to the soundman at Cat's Cradle before the opening act (Caitlin Cary, great Raleigh violinist, ex-Whiskeytown), asking if it was possible to plug into the board to record the Patty show. He said that he had already planned to record it, using the club's DAT hookup (which would've been a GREAT recording), but Patty nixed that idea during soundcheck. In his words, "She wasn't mean about it, of course. She just mentioned that she had heard some bootleg things on the Net that she didn't really like, and she would prefer that we not tape the show. So I can't do it. Especially when the artist says something, I could get in very big trouble if I taped it." (My own $.02... Yet another reason why Napster screwed up so many things... Many artists that used to turn a blind eye towards bootlegs came down hard on taping once Napster allowed millions of users to trade any unsolicited recordings they wanted... It sounds like it affected Patty's stance as well.) 3) Finally, the other soundman talked to me after the show about how good it was... and I mentioned it was a shame it wasn't taped. He agreed with me, then said, "That's weird, too. Most of the acts that play this club have no problem with taping at all. We usually tape every show off the board unless there's a specific request from the artist." 4) Finally, the age-old excuse that "the label made us install a no-taping rule" doesn't apply here, since Patty is (currently) between labels, to the best of my knowledge. So that's why I made that statement. I don't think Patty's gonna try to prosecute her fans, but at the same time, she seems pretty anti-bootleg about her own work. Ironically, by eliminating board tapes, the only shows left are audience recordings, many poorly recorded (including some of the tracks from the LFML comp), which might be the same recordings she saw on the Net that she "didn't really like." A final aside... I've released studio recordings in the past... but I've found I actually got BETTER audiences at my shows once I started MiniDisc-ing my solo performances off the board, burning them to CD-R, and then letting them circulate amongst fans... because hearing the board tape let potential fans get a taste of the live experience, and left them eager to attend a future show in person... - --rICH Listen to Rich: Check out the official website of Backyard Green, featuring tour dates, lyrics, pictures, and updates on the soon-to-be-released new album: http://www.backyardgreen.com And be sure to check out Rich's solo website at: http://listen.to/rich.com http://www.geocities.com/richardchallen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:51:56 -0400 From: "Kiersten" Subject: MM: Re: mad-mission-digest V5 #183 - ----- Original Message ----- > > I've witnessed people ask her several times about certain songs that they've > heard on a Rarities compilation and "will they ever be released on a CD?". > I've heard people tell her about the numerous bootlegs they have, & I've even > watched people personally hand her the 1st Rarities compilation to listen to & > Patty has never once seemed uneasy, & certainly not "against" us listening > to this stuff... In all honestly she seems gracious that the fans are that > into her & that they care so dearly about her music.> > Dave's .02 cents. ------------------------------ This is what I've heard too. Does anyone have any direct experience of Patty telling them she doesn't want tapes made? I'd be quite suprised and definitely wouldn't trade her stuff then though. As for the birchemere's rule, you can tell by the quoted rules that someone posted that they just don't want to deal with having to allow people to set up mike stands and camera stands and what not to take pictures which would go along with allowing booting. As for something that doesn't affect anyone else's experience (like flash bulbs etc) by something recording in my purse I don't worry about it. Someone did take a flash picture near the end which sucked!!! Obviously they can't make a rule like no recording except for those small enough to fit in a purse! :) And what about their line of saying "most nationally touring artists" don't want it? Do you all think that's true? Because maybe i listen to a subset of people, and feel free to tell me if you think so, but ALL the folky/folk rock people that I listen to are totally fine with it and even promote it. The only rule I've ever heard from them is "send me a copy". :) And whoever said many of the great boots have come out of the birchmere I totally agree which is why I decided to do it for myself! (and now for like 6 people that have asked for copies :) ) I've never been in a venue that made a rule "allowing" taping because of all the pain in the butt equipment and audience distraction real good copying would create. So not taping where it's not allowed at some venue would be everywhere in my experience! It's not like you can go next door and see patty where it's allowed! yeesh! :) Do let me know if you have a patty experience with her not wanting taping though.... and finally they say the artists that allow taping are "fine" with it. As if an artist is going to waste his/her time fighting with a venue over anything except maybe getting paid! They don't have time for that kind of thing... there's much too many better things to fight for in life...that's such a cop-out. I do agree that there were some annoying fans there though who kept yelling out the same songs (while patty patiently ignored them and smiled) and talked all the way through the opening act. :( but once a performer gets bigger than something like the metro cafe or IOTA I guess you gotta expect that...not that they are always respectful there either! BTW i had NO idea there were so many fans in the DC area...I've gotten a ton of great emails from you all! next time we HAVE to get together??? okies? :) > > Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:33:15 -0700 > From: Peter Palmer > Subject: MM: Has anyone taped the recent shows? > > If anyone taped these on DAT or minidisc, I've got plenty to trade. > > > > http://home.netcom.com/~plpalmer > > > Peter Just a tech check here. When I was looking into a booting device i was told that DAT's are nerfed so that they only have an analog out and not a digital one so the result when burned to a CD (though the minidisk is better) is dependent on an analogue signal which is the same quality a tape makes. Anyone have a minidisk with a digital out? if they come out with those I'm getting one!!! For those with cd requests gimme a week or so to separate out the tracks to a CD... it's take a bunch of computer time to cut and paste. You can still send me the cd's just don't expect them back tomorrow :) Take Care! - --Kiersten ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 01:03:00 EDT From: MactheMutt@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: Re: Taping and Bootlegs In a message dated 7/31/01 11:57:54 PM Central Daylight Time, kierstenk@hotmail.com writes: > And what about their line of > saying "most nationally touring artists" don't want it? Do you all think > that's true? > > I think "most nationally touring artists" want or don't want what their record co. tells them to want or don't want. ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V5 #184 *********************************