From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V4 #345 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.quackquack.net/pattyg * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com * then click "tour" and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V4 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Wednesday, December 13 2000 Volume 04 : Number 345 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: MM: Pissed [Tricia9999@aol.com] Fwd: RE: MM: Pissed [Everyman7@aol.com] Re: MM: Pissed ["Donald Henn" ] RE: MM: Pissed ["Karla Frisco" ] MM: Empowering Empowering.. [Richard Challen ] Re: MM: Pissed (NPC) ["LouAnn Muhm" ] Re: MM: Pissed ["Matthew Hoppock" ] Re: MM: Pissed (NPC) ["LouAnn Muhm" ] Re: MM: Pissed (NPC) [Songbird22@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:51:01 EST From: Tricia9999@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: Pissed In a message dated 12/13/2000 12:54:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, FlamingRed74@cs.com writes: > but the reason I don't go out with girls is > because they all seem to prefer the guys who do treat them bad. I always > think about 2 of my ex-friends who used to treat girls like crap, but always > > got any girl they wanted.. while I was always being nice to some girl who > never returned those actions. Something tells me you might be attracted to women who like guys who treat them badly. It works both directions. You might have to look inward to see if this is so. (I am happily married to someone who would never think to treat me with disrespect.) But I never went out with people for long if they were assholes. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:02:18 EST From: Everyman7@aol.com Subject: Fwd: RE: MM: Pissed Yeah girls- get on it! I met Dave and can vouch for him- I wish my daughters would bring him home instead of the dummies they come up with! I hope somebody nice is in the wings for him. She has to love Patty tho. Dana in Berkeley -list Mom Return-Path: Received: from rly-yd02.mx.aol.com (rly-yd02.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.2]) by air-yd02.mail.aol.com (v77.14) with ESMTP; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:01:38 -0500 Received: from smoe.org (jane.smoe.org [216.200.102.14]) by rly-yd02.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:01:14 -0500 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) with SMTP id PAA13026; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:46:49 -0500 (EST) Received: by smoe.org (bulk_mailer v1.10); Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:46:48 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) id PAA12983 for mad-mission-outgoing; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:45:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from server.colorite-resins.com (proxy.colorite [207.44.45.178] (may be forged)) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/daemon-mode-jane) with ESMTP id PAA12976 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:45:45 -0500 (EST) Received: by SERVER with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:21:11 -0500 Message-ID: <9939D7D878AFD11191FE00104B30DF48093E86@SERVER> From: Gary Jacques To: "'FlamingRed74@cs.com'" , Gary Jacques Cc: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: RE: MM: Pissed Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:21:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-mad-mission@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Ok, Dave needs sex! Right now from what I'm reading. I met Dave and he seemed like a nice guy to me. So here is your chance ladies. I say one or two of ya needs to wrap a bow around your body part of choice and head over to Dave's house for Christmas!! - -----Original Message----- From: FlamingRed74@cs.com [mailto:FlamingRed74@cs.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 3:36 PM To: jacques@colorite-resins.com Cc: mad-mission@smoe.org Subject: Re: MM: Pissed Hey all, I have to say that I agree wholeheartedly with Gary on the "don't be pissed, date better people" comment. I really don't date at all, ..so I have no reason to talk about this, but the reason I don't go out with girls is because they all seem to prefer the guys who do treat them bad. I always think about 2 of my ex-friends who used to treat girls like crap, but always got any girl they wanted.. while I was always being nice to some girl who never returned those actions. Anyway.. it could just be something that I do that turns girls off, I don't know.. but it seems to me that the preference among girls would be to be with the guy that A. they think they can't have (which is just a natural human instinct I think) or B. be with a guy who has tendencies towards being not so nice more than 50% of the time.. LOL Sorry about going off on this. Gary just hit on something that i was thinking about today.. why do all these guys who are A$$holes have dates for Christmas parties etc.. and I don't? Rock out Patty Jean! Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:05:49 -0500 From: "Donald Henn" Subject: Re: MM: Pissed Good luck , Dave ! Btw , I haven't been dating for awhile either , but I'm saving myself for the "right" woman. : ) My fav from the "empowerment" list: "Just a Girl" by No Doubt. My additions ; "Woman of Heart and Mind" by Joni Mitchell , "Wonder" by Natalie Merchant. They say I must be one of the wonders Of God's own creation And as far as they see , they can offer No explanation Natalie Merchant "Wonder" Don From: "Gary Jacques" > Ok, Dave needs sex! Right now from what I'm reading. I met Dave and he > seemed like a nice guy to me. So here is your chance ladies. I say one or > two of ya needs to wrap a bow around your body part of choice and head over > to Dave's house for Christmas!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 18:30:31 -0500 From: "Karla Frisco" Subject: RE: MM: Pissed I met Dave a while ago and I sure wish I was 10 years younger. Dave, don't give up hope, you are very gentlemanly, nice, smart, generous, fun, funny, and cute. Someday the right girl will walk into your life, it will be worth the wait. Some girls do like the bad boys, they like the challenge. Hope to see Dave soon, 'cause that usually means it's a Patty concert! Merry Christmas, Karla _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 19:17:30 -0500 From: Richard Challen Subject: MM: Empowering Empowering.. hey, > PJ Harvey -- pretty much anything, although 60ft Queenie springs immediately to mind Forgot about her! "Dry" or "Man Size" or "Me Jane" or maybe the whole "Rid Of Me" album... > Bob Mould -- okay, you want angry? First the Husker Du stuff -- Bob Mould's great, but isn't this female only? 'Cuz if we're gonna include angry men in this discussion we'll be here a WHILE... Whoever mentioned Aimee Mann, her new album's a keeper too... "Bachelor #2" and the "Magnolia" soundtrack... although she seems more angry at her record company than at men... :^) > This is in reply to Becca, who was looking for songs with "Girl Power." There is an Atlanta artist named Michelle Malone (you can pick her cds up in most big chain record stores) who has several songs that would fit this description... You should also check out S.C. native/great songwriter/quirky girl/all-around nice person Danielle Howle. Her and Michelle play shows together a lot. (She's also toured with Ani D., Indigo Girls, and others...) Her last record was called "Catalog" (on Kill Rock Stars)... great album, almost all acoustic. She also has a band (The Tantrums) and their last one was "Do A Two Sable" (on Dameon)... Both can be found at cooler record stores everywhere... - --rICH Listen to Rich: Visit THE RICH HOMEPAGE to hear tracks from LIFE/DEATH... 15 songs of romance and retribution for those who know all too well... Available independently from Desperate Man Records. http://listen.to/rich.com http://www.geocities.com/richardchallen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 19:39:05 -0600 From: "LouAnn Muhm" Subject: Re: MM: Pissed (NPC) The nice guys lament... A little story for you--well OK, kind of a long story: My boyfriend was always the guy that girls came to with their problems, talked to, hung around with, but never dated. It was very frustrating for him to watch his friends (some of whom he would have liked to have been more than friends) take abuse of varying degrees from the assholes they found so exciting and attractive. Then they always came to him to cry on his shoulder. He was totally crushed at least once when he finally revealed his feelings to a "friend" who let him know in no uncertain terms that she was not available for anything more than friendship. But if you wait long enough, everything changes into its opposite. I am the woman who married that asshole ("but he really has a sweet side underneath" yeah, right), spent 13 years making excuses for his bad behavior, and then left him before the last shred of self-esteem was bullied out of me. Then I met my boyfriend, and could appreciate every nuance of his niceness, thanks to my asshole ex's lack of it. So if the nice guys just wait, those of us who couldn't see your value when we were younger will get sick of those assholes eventually and fall into your arms, telling you every day how wonderful we think yor niceness is and appreciating you in a way we never could have without our previous asshole experiences. My boyfriend is always surprised when I am so appreciative of little things that seem like nothing to him. He has said on more than one occasion that my ex actually did him a favor by setting the bar so low! Anyway, Dave, just wait. "I said 'Love, come to you,' hoping just because I said the words they'd come true..." Indigo Girls Peace, LouAnn +++++++++++++++++++++++ Flora Borealis Flowers & Light from the Northwoods to You www.floraborealis.com - ---------- >From: FlamingRed74@cs.com >To: jacques@colorite-resins.com >Cc: mad-mission@smoe.org >Subject: Re: MM: Pissed >Date: Wed, Dec 13, 2000, 2:35 PM > >Hey all, > >I have to say that I agree wholeheartedly with Gary on the "don't be pissed, >date better people" comment. I really don't date at all, ..so I have no >reason to talk about this, but the reason I don't go out with girls is >because they all seem to prefer the guys who do treat them bad. I always >think about 2 of my ex-friends who used to treat girls like crap, but always >got any girl they wanted.. while I was always being nice to some girl who >never returned those actions. > >Anyway.. it could just be something that I do that turns girls off, I don't >know.. but it seems to me that the preference among girls would be to be with >the guy that A. they think they can't have (which is just a natural human >instinct I think) or B. be with a guy who has tendencies towards being not >so nice more than 50% of the time.. LOL > >Sorry about going off on this. Gary just hit on something that i was >thinking about today.. why do all these guys who are A$$holes have dates for >Christmas parties etc.. and I don't? > >Rock out Patty Jean! > >Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 02:32:26 From: "Matthew Hoppock" Subject: Re: MM: Pissed This reminds me of a group on my college campus called the "Men Against Rape Society" (MARS). Sounds well and good but once you dug deeper, what they were saying was really gross. They were saying that Feminism was only out to target all men as attackers and that if women would loosen up and just date the nice ones (you know, the ones in MARS), then there wouldn't be a problem. This line of rhetoric bugs me a lot. Women (and all people really) shouldn't be expected to trust...an expectation of our culture that men are allowed to posess anger and women are to smile constantly and not get angry. It's like we have these defined emotions that are acceptable based on gender...Women can be nice and nuturing (it's their place) and men can be angry...but if you actually show emotions like anger or nurturing and you're on the wrong side, groups MARS come along to tell you to loosen up. You're rocking the boat a little too much. It's the implication that any anger from a woman must mean that she's crazy (and nurturing from men would do the same). How can you tell a survivor of violence to not be angry? The proposition that "you just haven't found the right one yet" is a lot like blaming the victim. that you were looking the wrong place or for the wrong guy and that's why he beat the shit out of you...it could never be blamed on the men that actually rape, or by any means the culture that legitimizes sexual violence. Also, to say that a bunch of you "need a good man" is really disgusting. Not only is it way heterosexist, but it places the power to control and the power to blame in the hands of "the good guys" and the person really at fault is the person that just hasn't found the right man yet. Listen, I think that empowerment is really about an overwhelming feeling that you can change things and that you're not ineffective. Anger can serve as a really great tool for that and who am I to tell you that you shouldn't be so angry. GET ANGRY. Audre Lorde writes great words about the power of anger and using it as a tool to tear down oppression. So does bell hooks. Just my $.02 matthew - ----Original Message Follows---- From: Gary Jacques To: "'mad-mission@smoe.org'" Subject: MM: Pissed Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 07:53:09 -0500 I have noticed, that some of you have mentioned pissed woman songs, with what I felt was a bit of a grin on your face. It is a shame that the Evil Ones wife won't let him date because it's obvious that the whole bunch of you need a good man. A great guy like me. A guy that watches football but goes to theater. A guy that has a couple with his friends but reads poetry to his lady. I leave out the women that have been hurt by other women. Although I am French and could possible make you happy as well. Quit being so pissed and start dating better people. Or do you like being pissed? I see that grin on your face. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 21:10:59 -0600 From: "LouAnn Muhm" Subject: Re: MM: Pissed (NPC) >Ah, yes, the suggestion I've heard SO many times. "Just wait and your time >will come." My question is this - what's the statute of limitations on >waiting? I'm going on about 15 years in my dating life (I'm 29). Am I, uh, >being impatient? :) Maybe... I know your pain (or my own version of it), and I also know that the last thing you want is any platitudes about how complete you are in your own right and how you don't need a relationship to be happy. That kind of stuff is only said by people who have never spent any significant amount of time alone. [And to those who say "but I love solitude, and I wish I could get more of it--why are you complaining?": being in solitude or being "by yourself" are not at all the same thing as being alone.] That said, I can tell you that the old cliche is true: you will find someone when you quit looking. I think love is like a beautiful wild animal--a fox, maybe. It creeps into your peripheral vision, and if you are perfectly still and quiet and don't let it know that you see it, it may come closer. If you turn around and shout "Hey, fox! You are so beautiful! Come over here!" it will be gone before the first syllable has passed your lips. Read "The Little Prince." Everything you need to know about everything (including love) is in there, and I just realized that's where I stole the fox image. Peace, LouAnn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:34:45 EST From: Songbird22@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: Pissed (NPC) I know this thread is not Patty related and I know that pisses people off, but I have to contribute anyway:) > That said, I can tell you that the old cliche is true: you will find > someone when you quit looking. I think love is like a beautiful wild > animal--a fox, maybe. It creeps into your peripheral vision, and if you are > perfectly still and quiet and don't let it know that you see it, it may come > closer. If you turn around and shout "Hey, fox! You are so beautiful! > Come over here!" it will be gone before the first syllable has passed your > lips. This is TOTALLY true!! I dated a few total losers (well, honestly, losers for me but maybe they are good for someone else out there...) and had my heart broken way too many times... Anyway, after one particularly bad breakup I was feeling very sorry for myself and called my aunt to talk... She was telling me about this "list" that one of her friends or someone told her to write up after she had broken up w/ someone. On the list her friend said to list all the traits she wanted in a future mate... So my aunt did it and seriously in like a month she met my uncle. They got engaged and married immediately (like, uh, 8 days or something crazy like that). They've been married almost 20 years and are the happiest couple I know. So I took her suggestion and wrote up a list in one of my journals and didn't think much about it... dated a few more people and had my heart broken by someone I worked very closely with on my last record (ie: my producer)... vowed to never date again. Wasn't looking for anyone... shortly after someone at my office noticed the IT tech we used on a consulting basis and I standing near each other and she thought we'd be a cute couple. I blew her off because I wasn't interested in being hurt again, thought he was taken anyway, etc... Then I started to think more about it and some ppl at my office got his email addy and ph# and I got up the courage to email him... on our first date I KNEW he was the one... Several dates later I was reading him some poetry I wrote and pulled out that list--he is everything on it, no joke. We got married 8/11/00 almost one year to the date of our first date :-) Good things happen when you're not looking for them to happen. And you can't tell yourself that your'e not looking and be aware of it, either, you have to really just not think about it... :) Sorry for the boring story, I just have hope for anyone who has dated losers and doesn't think they'll ever find "the one"--you will! It just takes time/patience. Jess www.jessicaweiser.com | mp3.com/jessweiser "i sing sometimes for the war i fight, cause every tool is a weapon if you hold it right" - -ani difranco ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V4 #345 *********************************