From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V4 #74 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.quackquack.net/patttyg * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com * then click "tour" and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V4 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Thursday, March 9 2000 Volume 04 : Number 074 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: Copyright Issues ["R.C." ] MM: Another Artist Site ["R.C." ] Re: MM: I'm writing this naked ["Paul Russell" ] MM: Re: mad-mission-digest V4 #73 [Flakeybird@aol.com] MM: Forgiveness & the Tribute CD [Ryan S ] MM: The list tribute/cover CD and how Patty's management feels about it [] MM: By the way... [David Lewis ] MM: Opps [David Lewis ] MM: Mad Mission Artists :) [EveryLittleBit@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 02:59:11 -0500 From: "R.C." Subject: MM: Copyright Issues while i agree that patty's management COULD make a stink out of the proposed "tribute project," it seems highly unlikely for them to shoot this down after NOT shooting down the "rarities" compilation. even assuming the whole "someone is new to the list and gets a copy of the tribute and starts selling it" idea, which bootleg do YOU think would sell better? a collection of unreleased patty songs as performed by patty herself, or a collection of released patty songs as performed by no one you've ever heard of before? i doubt ANYONE is gonna make money off of this even if he or she wanted to... this is a labor of love all the way. as for the legal issues, it was my understanding that any duplication of an artist's work is illegal, regardless of any money involved. (meaning that the trading of concert tapes or the above-mentioned rarities disc is still technically illegal, though record companies have MUCH larger fish to fry than tiny CD-R and tape traders on a patty griffin mailing list.) HOWEVER, an individual is free to cover another artist's song(s) without any legal hassle, providing there is NO monetary compensation in return. this is why artists like duncan sheik and mary lou lord (among others) put covers on free giveaway or "promotional" CDs... since technically these are not making any money off another writer's work. of course, the minute an artist slaps a cover on an album... or the B-side of a commercial single... or a soundtrack... or even plays the song live in concert... money has to be paid to the writer and the publisher. in short, if your neighborhood club isn't registered with BMI or ASCAP but still has live bands that play the occasional cover... or has a jukebox... or even plays the radio during business hours... that club is violating more copyright laws than this tribute project will. my advice: make sure to put all the appropriate writing & publishing credits for each song somewhere on the tribute disc. and don't sell 'em. that should keep everyone clear. whew! - --rICH Listen to Rich: Visit THE RICH HOMEPAGE to hear tracks from LIFE/DEATH... 15 songs of romance and retribution for those who know all too well... Available independently from Desperate Man Records. http://listen.to/rich.com http://www.geocities.com/richardchallen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 03:03:15 -0500 From: "R.C." Subject: MM: Another Artist Site that sound you hear is the tooting of my own horn. :^) but seriously, i do have a website and the address is below. i recorded "Life/Death" with a full band in 1997, while "Drive Yourself Home: The Demos" was a live acoustic demo, recorded on 2 nights at my house in Oct. 1998. you can order both by clicking "ORDERS" on the main page... you can also check out sound previews, lyrics, and other stuff as well... thanks, rICH Listen to Rich: Visit THE RICH HOMEPAGE to hear tracks from LIFE/DEATH... 15 songs of romance and retribution for those who know all too well... Available independently from Desperate Man Records. http://listen.to/rich.com http://www.geocities.com/richardchallen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 20:58:27 PST From: "Paul Russell" Subject: Re: MM: I'm writing this naked Oh brother! > >How is our compiling Patty covers and distributing them amongst >our-selves >any different than distributing the rarities tapes? Hm? Actually, there is....and there isn't a difference. there is a difference in that some of the Rareties might be Copyright infringement. You are distributing songs others have a copyright on and should be paid for. Just because you do it and don't get fined doesn't make it legal. However, since there is such widespread instances, many times this is overlooked by the holders of the copyright (especially since we're just distributing it amongts ourselves). You can take THAT with a grain of salt, however, because I only took ONE media law class (I minored in poly-sci studying mostly Con Law). I truly think many people get away with it because of the medium (i.e., you're using tapes, and they're bad quality, etc.) Compiling Patty Griffin songs on a CD and distributing it amongts ourselves would be leaning more toward downright plagarism. Copyright infringement, most definitely. Plagarism isn't just intentionally stealing someone's work for profit. Many times it's unintentionally leaving off the correct credits. Citing sources is what it's all about....and citing them correctly. And I'm not sitting here all high and mighty. Hell, look at my signature I put at the end of my email. I was told Suisie and her Banshees wrote it. So, I'm sitting here printing someone else's work and using another's credit. They could probably have my hairy ass if they wanted. Copyright infringement is the reason my company pays money money for ASCAAP. So that we can play all the ASCAAP songs without any worries. You are stealing someone else's work if you use more than 30 seconds (for educational purposes) and I think like more than 15-20 seconds for other purposes. I shit you not. blah blah blah....as I say I could be wrong, I didn't take a bar exam or anything. (ha ha, I said "bar".....hmmmm beer). I'm just guessing the reason why we have our Rarity Tapes is that the powers that be have decided the tape isn't "worth their time" to try to prosecute. ***next*** > > > >In addition, did you stop and think about all of those cover bands that >play out for tips and such? My boyfriend plays cover tunes ALL OF THE TIME >in classical guitar format--makes a living doing so... Well, yeah. That's legal, believe it or not. Hey wait a minute here. Is it just me or did my fonts change? Damn this Macintosh. If the font didn't change then I must be going crazy. Anyway... For some reason, performing live is alright. I think it has something to do with that free speech thing and all. Go ahead and play all the covers you want. I can't guarantee you'll be very original, but yeah well. Again, let me just say that I aint heckling nobody. I'm just saying that I think Mr. Baker (or whoever Patty Griffin's management is) is a tool, and I wouldn't put it beneath anybody to sue anyone now-a-days. By all means, please don't let me ruin your phun. I promise I won't tell or anything. I think it's a max wicked idea and I totally want a CD. I'm just saying take care what you do, even for such a noble cause as brightening Patty Griffin's day. cheers! paul ********************************** * Wheel's on Fire, * * Rolling down the road. * * Best notify my next of kin, * * this wheel shall explode! * * --Theme from * * Absolutely Fabulous * ********************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 09:06:12 EST From: Flakeybird@aol.com Subject: MM: Re: mad-mission-digest V4 #73 Sharyn here Jess, excellent idea about releasing a CD with our own material. I've kind of been just perusing the MM posts lately. Has anyone volunteered to approach PG management yet? If we do the tribute tape/CD, I have to get down on my knees and beg for "Forgiveness". ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 10:59:36 -0500 From: Ryan S Subject: MM: Forgiveness & the Tribute CD Hello-- Should this tribute CD be released, I would love to do a piano version of "Forgiveness" or "Mary." I have just released a solo CD of original piano compositions. If anyone is interested in hearing a sample MP3 of my work, please email me. Thanks again, ~RYan "No one else will share our thoughts, you were there for me when I was lost. Now you're just a memory of someone we wanted you to be. You were always the one to fall, now it's your time to show them who's tall." ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 12:01:09 -0500 From: "Connell, Michael P" Subject: MM: The list tribute/cover CD and how Patty's management feels about it Hi folks :-) I have been rather busy lately and have not been able to read the MM list as much as I would like, but I have tried to keep up with the tribute CD/tape discussion. (I have read them all, just haven't retained it all....such as who might be heading up this project/idea) I received an email from Patty's management on this Monday night but have not had the time to study it too closely. However I can say that it *basically* says that the tribute/cover CD/tape will not be a problem on their end as long as we keep it simple (i.e. not for sale....available for material and postage expenses cost) and amongst ourselves just as many of you had thought. There was more, I just cannot recall it all at this time. I will post more on this soon, hopefully tomorrow or Friday. I want to read the email closely and discuss a few other items about this with Patty's management team first. Still, it looks like there will be a green light on this, as long as we dot all the i's and cross all the t's. We did a very similar and quite successful "cover tape" on the Jewel list three years ago. Jewel even received a copy. I'm not sure if she ever listened to it, but I was told once by her friend Bibi that "it's right there on the shelf with a bunch of her tapes". There are still requests for it on-list at least once a month or so. Again, I'll post more as soon as I get more information. Mike (at work) P.S. Please CC any personal replies or questions to my home address of ducksoup@quackquack.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 18:42:07 -0400 From: David Lewis Subject: MM: By the way... Hi Again :) By the way... I'm not just crazy... or making myself crazy... the right ear is ringing now almost as loud as the left... sometimes maybe louder. It's just taken me awhile to be sure. I think the left is probably about the same and the right is not really louder than the left... so when I try to analyse it, it seems to be about the same volume. But the addition of the right is making me much more aware of the t. during the day... not because it's louder but because it's new. In any case, it's a lot more difficult to differentiate your tones when you have it in both ears. The right is a little lower in pitch that the left... maybe an octave... and it seems almost as loud as the left... but not as aggressive. The left can often warble in volume... flipping up and down a decible in volume every few seconds. The right is steady but seems to change... some days it's hard to pick out. Other times, like right now, it's quite clearly present. The left can also be dramatically increased by jutting my jaw forward (as always) but this has no effect on the right at all! The right *can* be increased ever so slightly by clenching my teeth... especially if I clench on the left side... i.e. the opposite side. Anyway... there's almost no doubt in my mind now that those 4 hours at Breakers played havoc with my sensitive ears :/ It wasn't all just stress... although I do feel much better when I'm not stressed. I guess maybe I had gotten *too* comfortable with my tinnitus and was getting a bit careless. It was nice having one ear that was near perfect... letting in completely t. free sound :/ From now on I'm not taking any chances at all. I *HAVE* to get a pair of those damn moulded plugs! Anyway... I'm a little down tonight... but I'm still doing much better than when I saw you last week. I think my confusion about whether or not is got worse is because of the right ear getting into the game. Later, Dave - ------------------------------ David Lewis Halifax, Canada dlewis@hfx.andara.com http://users.andara.com/~dlewis - ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 20:55:07 -0400 From: David Lewis Subject: MM: Opps I posted a personal email to the list in error title "by the way"... MadMission is right beside MarkGulliver in my address book... Mark is my Audiologist. Sorry about that guys. - ------------------------------ David Lewis Halifax, Canada dlewis@hfx.andara.com http://users.andara.com/~dlewis - ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 20:41:10 EST From: EveryLittleBit@aol.com Subject: MM: Mad Mission Artists :) Hi all... I'd like to make a page of links to MM artists on the Patty Lyrics Archive. Depending on how many responses I get to this it'll either be a separate set of links on the main page or its own page. So if you're a singer/songwriter/artist/writer/whatever on this list and you have a web page that you'd like to be included, please reply privately and give me your address :) Thanks! Rachel :D ************************************************** * There's no getting out of your own way...* * -Patty Griffin * * The Patty Griffin Lyrics Archive * ************************************************** ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V4 #74 ********************************