From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V4 #54 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.quackquack.net/patttyg * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com * then click "tour" and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V4 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Monday, February 21 2000 Volume 04 : Number 054 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: popularity [Mike Acerbo ] Re: MM: popularity [JessBartn@aol.com] MM: questions ["Patty's Band" ] Re: MM: Re: Question for the Band [JessicaSMansmith@aol.com] MM: popularity contest ["Paul Russell" ] Re: MM: Question for the Band ["Kevin B. Pease" ] MM: the popularity thing [MistyBC@aol.com] MM: Popularity ["Donald Henn" ] Re: MM: popularity cont est [Femboty2k@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 04:15:51 -0800 From: Mike Acerbo Subject: MM: popularity Hey guys. I totally disagree. I think Patty has the potential to be a huge success while retaining her art. Heck I still think "Tony" could be a huge hit if it were released and really pushed by the record company. I think Red would have been more "popular" with better promoting. That's the record companies fault. I think there is always a hunger for more meaningfull music and people do buy plenty of records that have more serious substance. Look how well Lucinda Williams last recording did. Her record company did a great job promoting that one. Every time I turned around their was an add for that record. Or she was on tv. Or someone was talking about her. That's why I finally went out and bought it. Most people I know have no idea who Patty is or confuse her with Nancy Griffin. That's not good p.r. on their part. Patty's songs have all the right qualities to make her big. They are unique, catchy, well-written, and she has a kick ass voice. It's only a matter of time. Her piers already recognize her as evidenced by the amount of Patty covers other artists are doing. I for one hope she is more widely discovered. I just hope that as many people as possible are touched by her incredible songwriting. Anyway just my 2 cents. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:01:44 EST From: JessBartn@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: popularity When Patty hits the mainstream and becomes hugely popular, the masses won't change her, I believe SHE will change the masses. That's the beauty of her music. Jess ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 09:22:48 -0800 (PST) From: "Patty's Band" Subject: MM: questions We don't know when a tour will start. We don't know about how PG feels about becoming or not becoming succesful. There is a fence being built for Frank. There are no such things as lemmings, they were all animated on a computer for the films that we saw in school. Watch for John in the next Star Wars movie! He only has about 5 mintues of screen time but we are proud of him Thanks PG's Band __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:14:47 EST From: JessicaSMansmith@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: Re: Question for the Band In a message dated 02/19/2000 12:11:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, kbpease@concentric.net writes: << To translate this question into another medium (and yes, I understand the music industry is different and that this comparison may not be wholly applicable) -- I'd guess that millions of people visit various art museums around the country each year... does the fact that so many people view & appreciate the art somehow make it less worthy as art? >> This brings up a curious statement that has always stayed with me. Well, for a couple of years now, at least. Back when Hanson debuted "Mmmm Bop" and they were catching a lot of flak for being cheesy pop kids, Eddie Vedder stood up for them and said something to the effect of, "Are you crazy? Making fun of kids for loving music?" and it made me stop and think. Yeah, maybe Ricky Martin or Will Smith, Celine Dion or Mariah Carey aren't your style, but I don't think that popularity should be regarded as a negative thing. There are many, many people in this world that these [types of] artists bring joy to and please. Good for them. Everyone has the right to enjoy the music they like. As for the increasing popularity of Patty Griffin, it is a positive thing. She is living and breathing her life's passion, unfortunately something that not many of us can attest to, and when she succeeds, it will be a partial attainment of the goals she has set for herself. GOOD FOR HER! Finally, I believe that wanting to covet obscure music and keep it on the DL is not fair- it is a pretty selfish thing to do, actually. If this music brings you joy and reached your soul, it should be spread, don'tyathink? JE55 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:33:20 PST From: "Paul Russell" Subject: MM: popularity contest Hey yo! I have to say on this "popularity" thing that I'm on Mike's side. Talent has nothing to do with popularity in today's music business. Any song on Flaming Red would be a huge hit if the record companies promoted it well. And promoting well depends on who gets on the credits (and money) for the record. The less credit (and money) an artist gives herself on a record, the more record execs get credit, and (surrpryse surrpryse) the more popular the song gets. There aint no such thing as a free lunch. And that's my story. If you want talent, walk around the streets of New York City and listen to street players. Just the same, you can't sit there and say that popular artists don't have talent. I would challenge any one of you to drum as well as Phil Collins, sing better than Mel Torme, wail better than Edward van Halen, etc. Not that I'm going to give you any money if you could, I'm just giving examples here. Comparing talent to popularity is almost like comparing apples to oranges. "Well, I liked that apple much better before it got so orangy." I would be very happy for Ms. Griffin if she got popular. Not like I've even seen her live ONCE. Maybe if she got popular I would actually get to see her since she would be touring in larger venues. Yeah, maybe it's nice to see Patty Griffin in a 300 seat bar (I said bar mmmmm), but some of us don't get to see her at all (at least that would be me. I don't. No Patty here. nope.). I would even follow her through the high on drugs, alienated rock star, isolation, and rehabilitated phases. clink. I totally loved NIN before Trent was the "Pop Star" he is today. I could scope out potentially cool girlfriends in highschool by noticing the NIN sticker on their cars and say "hey babe. So you like Nine Inch Nails huh? I do too." Which would then produce results like, "wow. you've heard of NIN? We've gotta go out some time." Well, not exactly. But you get the point. Anyway, I heart Trent's musical abilities now too. I don't think, "damn, he was so good before he got popular and all those 13-year-olds thought he was cool." Why should I care if someone else likes what I like? I didn't only like the Russian Meat Squats because no one ever heard of them. I liked them cuz they had a good punk sound with anti-message lyrics. Now I'm off the subject. ***don't hang up yet***** On another note... I thought it was pretty cool last Friday night listening to Vanessa Wheeler and watching Darcie Miner on the web. I decided to check out their stuff while working because I get paid to watch TV. And I wasn't particularly interested in watching what I was monitoring. You both have excellent voices at such a young age (not like I'm old grampa or something, it's just that most singers start sounding good once they hit into the 20s). Check them out if you get the chance. It also gave me a chance to check out a friend of mine's band Velcro Mary through that Mp3 search so I got more musical listening pleasure. Gotta run and study. The books are calling me. If this was off-base then ignore it. It just seems to me that many people on this list equate "popularity" with "talentless" which isn't true. That's like saying rich people are greedy. as always, my opinions expressed just means I'm a dick. peace love and vegetable rights paul ********************************** * Wheel's on Fire, * * Rolling down the road. * * Best notify my next of kin, * * this wheel shall explode! * * --Theme from * * Absolutely Fabulous * ********************************** ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:18:10 -0500 From: "Kevin B. Pease" Subject: Re: MM: Question for the Band Tina writes: > #1 My question was for the Band. Since this strikes me as a defensive statement, please don't misconstrue... I wasn't attacking you, I was merely posing a question that was brought to mind by your question... the statement about "I hope she's never a diva", in particular, seemed to imply a mind set that I don't understand, namely, the "popular=bad" type of thinking. If I misread what you intended to say, I apologize... but, as I said, it seems to be a very common mindset amongst fans of "underappreciated" music. > #2 Considering Patty Griffin's talent - I believe that her popularity is > completely IN her control, which gives me that much more respect for her as > an artist. I'm curious to hear her views. Tina I'm curious also, although I don't know that I agree that her popularity is completely in her control, or even under her control to any great extent... Kevin - -- Kevin Pease kbpease@concentric.net ICQ UIN: 3106063 AOL IM: kbpease " . . . 'the people can go,' he says, 'the furniture stays . . .'" ---(Sarah Slean, "Before Your Time")--- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:47:28 EST From: MistyBC@aol.com Subject: MM: the popularity thing In a message dated 2/20/00 6:36:23 AM, owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org writes: << #1 My question was for the Band. Yes, Tina's question was for the band, but I think it's an interesting topic to discuss.... How many of us are going to call Patty a sellout if she starts selling millions of records? I have never been someone to do that, but I know that it's common. I agree with everything in Kevin's post... Simply because an artist sells oodles of albums does NOT mean that he/she is not worthy of our respect and admiration. I think that if Patty starts selling lots of records and playing larger venues, we should just be happy that we were able to see her "back when." All of her newer fans will wish they had heard about Patty when she was playing 200 seat clubs. We also shouldn't discriminate against those who *didn't* know about her before us for many reasons.... They might not have had the access to a radio station that plays Patty's music or they might not have friends with good taste in music to intro duce them to her. <<#2 Considering Patty Griffin's talent - I believe that her popularity is completely IN her control, which gives me that much more respect for her as an artist. I'm curious to hear her views. Tina >> I disagree with this. Popularity in the music business is largely based on timing, luck, and promotion. These are three things Patty really can't control. Talent plays a small role. Also, no one answered me... What one question would you ask Patty if you had the chance? (possibly one you tried to get through at the Sessions chat) Happy President's Day everyone... Smiles, Misty, who is not happy because she has classes on President's Day! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 19:39:59 -0500 From: "Donald Henn" Subject: MM: Popularity MMers , I basically agree with what Kevin said & have one comment. Some people seem to think that they are not "special" enough when their tastes are shared by many others. I thought it was great during the "Classic Rock" era that my favorite music was the most popular around. I am walking on the bridge I am over the water And I'm scared as hell But I know there's something better Paula Cole "Me" Don > > Everyone is so interested in Patty becoming "more" popular; is Patty > > interested in becoming "more" popular. I realize this may be a selfish > > thing to say, but I don't like "Pop", that's why I love Patty. God, I > hope > > she's never a Diva. > > I'm curious about this statement... if, for some reason, 10 million > people decided to buy Living With Ghosts & Flaming Red, and believed that > Patty was just about the most amazing singer & songwriter they had ever > heard... would this be bad? > > The presumption in this question seems to be that if Patty were to > become a popular artist, she would somehow (by virtue of being popular?) > become a "pop" musician... I think you're confusing "popularity" with > "trite & meaningless art", which doesn't necessarily equate. If Patty gains > 10 million dedicated fans, does that suddenly invalidate her music as art, > and make her a diva? > > I will wholeheartedly agree, there's lots of garbage out there that's > popular, and there's a lot of pop music that is garbage... but that doesn't > mean only garbage is capable of being popular, or that everything that is > popular is crap.... > > This attitude seems to be remarkably common amongst people who listen to > "obscure" or "unappreciated" music, and I've never understood it... yes, I'd > be mildly disappointed if Patty became so wildly popular that she ended up > playing Great Woods up here in Massachusetts, rather than the Iron Horse. > But I'd also be wildly happy for her success, and that so many people would > be demonstrating their appreciation of her music... > > To translate this question into another medium (and yes, I understand > the music industry is different and that this comparison may not be wholly > applicable) -- I'd guess that millions of people visit various art museums > around the country each year... does the fact that so many people view & > appreciate the art somehow make it less worthy as art? > > Kevin > -- > Kevin Pease kbpease@concentric.net > ICQ UIN: 3106063 AOL IM: kbpease > " . . . 'the people can go,' he says, 'the furniture stays . . .'" > ---(Sarah Slean, "Before Your Time")--- > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:54:52 EST From: Femboty2k@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: popularity cont est In a message dated 2/20/00 3:38:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, iceburrrg@hotmail.com writes: << Talent has nothing to do with popularity in today's music business. Any song on Flaming Red would be a huge hit if the record companies promoted it well. >> So why don't they? I guess that's the real question? I have a genuine curiosity--we call all speculate why there's no hard core promotions for her, I wanted to hear her side, that's why I asked the band the question. I wasn't being defensive when I said my question was for the Band, I just didn't want it to get lost in our mad, mad-mission forum. I appreciate and actually enjoy hearing other peoples views, but I still have to stick by my original selfish statement, "God, I hope she never becomes a Diva." Sorry, but that's just the way I feel. Tina ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V4 #54 ********************************