From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V3 #354 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.spectra.net/~ducksoup/pattyg/patttyg.htm * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com * then click "tour" and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V3 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Monday, December 20 1999 Volume 03 : Number 354 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: Re: What's up with the women on this list?? ["Donald Henn" ] MM: Re: inspiration ["Donald Henn" ] Re: MM: inspiration [UMCaner74@aol.com] Re: MM: What's up with the women on this list?? [BLUEHEN@webtv.net] MM: Jay Joyce is a genius! [Patrick McCarthy ] Re: MM: What's up with the women on this list?? ["Sherie" Subject: MM: Re: What's up with the women on this list?? It looks like Dave found a way to get things moving again. I described here before that I first noticed Patty performing "Blue Sky" on David Letterman's show. The "Tasty & Inventive" guitar licks to open the song attracted me immediately, & after Patty finished the first four lines, I was riveted. What attracted me was in line with what I always find in great music. Musical composition first, then the sound & phrasing of the vocalist's voice, followed by the abilities of the musicians & lyrics. Three of those four are provided by the immense talent of Patty Griffin, & my guess is that, through inspiration, she lifts the talents of the musicians to a peak level. Dave described Patty's music as hitting him like *POW*. Patty's music hits many people like *POW*. I've heard that described in different ways many times on this list, & it hit me like that. Dave asks "And am I at all right with my description of how perfectly she expresses herself, or does it just hit me harder, and I understand it more than anyone elses music?" I think that he is right in saying that her expression is pure, & "Raw Emotion" The ones who are open to that level are the ones that it hits like *POW*. This description also leads me to my best guess as to why Patty isn't already a huge star. I think most people live "Comfortable" lives. Not too hot, not too cold. They don't want to be drawn into the kind of passion that Patty expresses in her music. But I believe that, as those of us who ARE drawn into it expand the consciousness of her music, there's only one direction for Patty & that's up. I am up to six people now, who are getting both of Patty's albums for Xmas. Those who know me, know that I love music & am not easily moved by new artists. I hope that gives me enough credibility that they will listen more closely than they might have otherwise. I can't imagine Patty's fan base not growing rapidly, as her new compositions are at least equal to what she has produced in the past, & her performance level is so consistently high. Although I generally listen closely to lyrics only after the music has gotten my attention, Patty is as strong in that department as she is in composition, voice, & phrasing. I agree with Louann that much of Patty's lyrics could stand alone as poetry. While stand-alone poetry used to be quite popular in days past, popular poetry is now expressed mainly in music. And it has much more impact when the words, music, & the singer's voice are all tuned into that responsive chord inside us. Okay ! I guess I got that out of my system. Full is not heavy as empty Not nearly my love Not nearly my love Not nearly Fiona Apple "The First Taste" ****Merry Christmas**** Don ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 01:56:39 -0500 From: "Donald Henn" Subject: MM: Re: What's up with the women on this list?? P.S. Congratulations to Darcie for the great review by the discriminating musical tastes of Dave!! I got my feet On the ground And I don't Go to sleep To dream Fiona Apple "Sleep to Dream" Don ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 03:45:20 -0800 From: Mike Acerbo Subject: MM: inspiration Good question. Patty drew me as a singer songwriter for similiar reasons. Her voice and sense of melody are amazing and so damn natural. She is also very real and writes with her feet planted firmly in the earth. I don't think there is a songwriter out there who can tell a story through lyric the way Patty can. She has an amazing ablity to sound plaintiff, matter of fact, and poetic at the same time. Her songs are so well crafted, and sung with such intensity that it is almost as if they come from another world and Patty is simply the porthole through which they enter ours. Her ability to create characters, stories and relay real ones is truly unique. On top of that, she crosses over pop, folk, rock, blues, and even a little musical theater in her range of styles. That's why I think she is amazing, and could easily make a career out of releasing acoustic albums. She's that damn good! While we are asking questions, here is one for you all: How do you feel about Jay Joyce producing Patty's next record? My opinion: Bad Move. After hearing "Silver Bell" completely mauled by heavy guitars at sessions, I'm hoping that her next LP isn't going to sound like her live act with the band when all you hear is screeching guitars and a girl desperately trying to sing over it all. Though I will say I LOVE the band version of Little God. It got heavy at just the right moments and the band complemented Patty's acoustic version and improved upon it. My issue with Red has always been that Patty's songs get lost in in a lot of average arrangements. Her riff in Tony is completely absent, and her beautiful guitar playing on Goodbye and Mary are completely absent. Similiarly, Silver Bells riff was completely lost as well at sessions. The whole feeling of the song was completely altered. "Christina" was another tune that suffered on the last album. I listen to the live acoustic version of that song over and over again and rarely listen to the c.d. . Nothing on that cd makes you want to listen again again like ghosts does. Hopefully the next cd will be more balanced and more interesting to listen to musically. Judging from Red, it doesn't seem like that's the direction they are going in. Anyway, just my 2 cents. What does everyone else think? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 05:02:43 -0500 From: "Donald Henn" Subject: MM: Re: inspiration Amen ! Especially the part between "Amazing ability" & "Porthole" As for direction, I'm encouraged that it's Patty's decision, & I trust her musical judgement.Nobody's perfect , & it's possible that she made some poor calls, but a general trend in the wrong direction would get her attention. Don > Good question. Patty drew me as a singer songwriter for similiar > reasons. Her voice and sense of melody are amazing and so damn > natural. She is also very real and writes with her feet planted firmly > in the earth. I don't think there is a songwriter out there who can > tell a story through lyric the way Patty can. She has an amazing ablity > to sound plaintiff, matter of fact, and poetic at the same time. Her > songs are so well crafted, and sung with such intensity that it is > almost as if they come from another world and Patty is simply the > porthole through which they enter ours. Her ability to create > characters, stories and relay real ones is truly unique. On top of > that, she crosses over pop, folk, rock, blues, and even a little musical > theater in her range of styles. That's why I think she is amazing, and > could easily make a career out of releasing acoustic albums. She's that > damn good! > > While we are asking questions, here is one for you all: How do you feel > about Jay Joyce producing Patty's next record? > > My opinion: Bad Move. After hearing "Silver Bell" completely mauled by > heavy guitars at sessions, I'm hoping that her next LP isn't going to > sound like her live act with the band when all you hear is screeching > guitars and a girl desperately trying to sing over it all. Though I > will say I LOVE the band version of Little God. It got heavy at just > the right moments and the band complemented Patty's acoustic version and > improved upon it. My issue with Red has always been that Patty's songs > get lost in in a lot of average arrangements. Her riff in Tony is > completely absent, and her beautiful guitar playing on Goodbye and Mary > are completely absent. Similiarly, Silver Bells riff was completely > lost as well at sessions. The whole feeling of the song was completely > altered. "Christina" was another tune that suffered on the last > album. I listen to the live acoustic version of that song over and over > again and rarely listen to the c.d. . Nothing on that cd makes you want > to listen again again like ghosts does. Hopefully the next cd will be > more balanced and more interesting to listen to musically. Judging from > Red, it doesn't seem like that's the direction they are going in. > Anyway, just my 2 cents. What does everyone else think? > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 08:14:01 EST From: UMCaner74@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: inspiration Mike & others, At first thought, I would have to agree that Jay Joyce producing the next CD is a bad move. The only complaints I've ever heard about Flaming Red are from people who were already Patty fans before they heard FR. However, just b/c Jay Joyce produced FR one way, doesn't mean that he'll produce the next CD in the same way, and try to copy the same sound again. I think if Patty is happy with the job that Jay Joyce can do, it's her decision. I don't think she is going to go in and try to make a record that imitates the sound of FR. You ALL know me though, whatever Patty says (and does) is cool with Dave.. :-) I think we all agree that the songs on FR are just as good as the songs on LWG. It's just that for whatever reason, whether it is that FR is over-produced or whatever, alot of things do seem lost on the album. As many layers of sounds as the CD has, Mike is right when he says that Patty's guitar playing in Goodbye and Tony is almost non-existent. I also agree that Christina (the acoustic version) may very well be the most beautiful song that I've ever heard Patty sing. I still like the version on FR, but not nearly as much as the one I have of her doing it solo. Anyway, I don't think Patty is going to go in and try to duplicate FR. I know that she's grown as a musician, and she realizes that a lot of things can be improved upon. As for Patty's live performances... She is not mixed like a solo artist whose voice is the main focus of the music. Her sound man mixes her like a rock band, and I'm guessing that that's her choice. Some nights her voice is more up front in the mix than others. Little God when sung live and with the band is truly awesome. I could listen to that song over, and over again and still get chills. I also like Silver Bell with all the loud screeching guitars, I think that's the personality of the song, and it sounds perfect. On certain nights though, Patty's voice IS lost in the mix. Ok, 2 days in a row with long posts from Dave... Yipee! Have a happy Monday! Dave ***************************** If it Makes You Happy It can't be that bad ~~ Sheryl Crow ~~ ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 08:52:27 -0500 (EST) From: BLUEHEN@webtv.net Subject: Re: MM: What's up with the women on this list?? Thaks, Dave for the kind words! I'll never forget the first time I heard LWG---someone gave it to me after a gig and said I really ought to check her out. Well, as I drove home that night, I had to pull over at least twice because I was overcome with such emotion! Every song was so haunting--they just crawled under your skin and lived with you! For a long time I had been disallusioned with popular music. I was a child in the 70s when songs seemed more meaningful and talent was crucial. My faith in music was restored again by Patty Griffin! I listen to some of the complaints some of you have about her (production, soundguy, etc...) and to tell you the truth, it's all lost on me. I hear Patty from a different place than my ears---she speaks to my soul and no soundguy can fuck that up! Just my 3 cents... ~Patty~ http://pattyblee.cjb.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 09:55:06 -0500 From: Patrick McCarthy Subject: MM: Jay Joyce is a genius! Mike and Dave, This is the first time I have replied to this Patty Griffin group. In the past I have heard many things that for the most part I agree with, but now I have become slightly annoyed. Being a musician myself and after having completed my first CD, I realize the importance of a good producer. The main role of a producer is to take an artist and enhance his or her work to make it even better. Jay Joyce has done just that. To criticize the arrangements as being average is just plain ignorant. Have you listened to this CD? Every single song is given unique, beautiful, intricate textures from the bass to the delicate piano flourishes. This CD is the best CD of the decade in my opinion. To constantly hold to LWG as the quintessential Patty Griffin album does nothing more than inhibit her abilities as an artist. As far as your comments about her guitar on Tony. I have heard her acoustic version and believe me Jay Joyce tapped into the heart of that song and brought out a masterpiece. Patty and Jay are perfect together. P.S. If Jay's arrangements are average, then the rest of the music world should call it quits and start flipping burgers. Pat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 11:10:01 -0500 From: "Sherie" Subject: Re: MM: What's up with the women on this list?? Dave writes: > Patty's form of expression seems to be so pure, 100% uninhibited, just raw > emotion. There is no way that you can watch her perform, and not have your > attention 100 % on her. Her voice commands your attention, what else can I > say? > Was it Bob Dylan who said that "a poem is just a naked person." ? Regardless, the quote is very applicable to how I feel about Patty's music too -- it is raw, it is uninhibited, it is her naked soul (IMHO), and yes, yes, yes it is pure poetry!! As for what drew me to Patty, well you can count me as another member who experienced the super duper Patty *POW* effect. I was driving, she hit me, and I was no longer on a crowded highway, but instead high up in the clouds in a state of euphoria. This said, I'd have to admit that it wasn't my understanding of her music that initially drew me in (that came later), rather is was her voice, with the perfect bluesy phrasings, her vocalizations (that just dance around the words), her obvious passion for the music, and most of all the feeling that I had that what she was saying was real - - - not fabricated, not covered with sugar. Of course, I'm not a musician, and can't even sing in tune most of the time, so perhaps it would be a better idea to propose a scientific theory (I'm a scientist) to explain why I love her so much: E= mc^2 where m = music, Patty's music : ) : ) : ) : ) When I first listened to some of her live recordings (thanks to the marvelous MM member), I was struck by how much her voice sounded like a young Bonnie Raitt. I have an old garage album of Raitt's that has some of the raw energy that I think Patty's has, but it doesn't move me in the same way. I think in some way this has to do with the fact that she doesn't convince me that she fully believes in what she sings even thought it is obvious she loves it. On the other hand, whenever I hear Patty sing and play there is never a doubt in my mind that she believes in every note, in every word, or at least she does a good job of convincing me that she does. And so Dave, I guess my answer to you question is, 'Yes, I understand her music more than the music of most other artists that I like, and this is, in part, because she expresses herself clearly, but more so, from my POV because she is sooooooo BELIEVABLE! Sherie p.s. I'm also from PA. Where does Darcie play? She sounds like someone I'd like to see. > It seems to me, that is the reason why so many fellow-musicians are Patty > fans.. because she expresses herself so perfectly. > > Since there has not really been a topic of conversation lately....I'll start > one here. My first question is to everyone. What is the most important > thing about Patty's music that draws you to it?? ...and for all the musicians > out there ....as a singer, a songwriter, and a performer, what is it about > her that inspires you?.. and am I at all right with my description of how > perfectly she expresses herself, or does it just hit me harder, and I > understand it more than anyone else's music? > > Now, about Darcie. I don't want to dwell on this topic, because age is not > important, but...Darcie is 16 years old, and is playing clubs and > coffeehouses around Central PA already! Bret Alexander (the guitarist of the > Badlees) who is an incredibly talented songwriter and producer (and guitar > player) worked with her on her CD. > > As if that is not impressive enough.. I went to see her play tonight at a > Coffeehouse near Harrisburg, PA. She played wonderful covers of Patty songs, > Poor Man's House, Every Little Bit, Change, Tony, and a REAL treat > considering I've never even heard Patty do this one, I Write The Book. > Hearing anyone doing Patty covers is a treat in itself, when they're done > WELL, and by someone who also sings them with great emotion, it's extra > special. > > Every song was enough like Patty's version so that it was still the same > song, but every one of them was uniquely hers too. Change was enough > different, that you could almost give as much credit to her as to Patty on > how it she played it. > > I only got to see a half hour of her performance, but there were other songs > that I didn't know. I know some of them were hers, and maybe some of them > were covers of other artists. All of them were great though, and we all can > be proud to say that there is ANOTHER great musician on this e-mailing list! > > I don't want to kiss butt too much here, but her guitar playing was better > than I expected too. I'm guessing that she had or has a good teacher! > > Ok...this email is long enough. I hope none of you are reading this at > work... as I could now be the cause of you being in the doghouse with your > boss. > > Have a great Christmas week everyone! ONLY 5 shopping days left! :-) > what's that?? ...I think I hear Santa ho-ho-ho-ing away off in the distance! > > > Dave > > ************************************************************* > I guess Old Father Time's put on one hell of a show > 'Cause the older that I get, it seems the less I know > I found the road to riches was just a private drive > Owned by politicians, waving from the inside > ~~ The Badlees ~~ > ************************************************************* > "Friends are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly." ~Anonymous ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V3 #354 *********************************