From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V3 #218 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.spectra.net/~ducksoup/pattyg/patttyg.htm * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com * then click "tour" and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V3 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Monday, July 26 1999 Volume 03 : Number 218 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: RE: one more thing... [Joe Sullivan ] MM: Joe rereads Mimi's compliments... [Joe Sullivan ] MM: RE: Joe rereads Mimi's compliments... ["Bright, Darin" Subject: MM: RE: one more thing... Hello Mimi, Upon rereading my post, the tone was a little harsher than I intended. Try to imagine an irreverent, smart ass (who's fundamentally gentle at the the core) playing with these ideas. Mimi says... Fair enough Joe, But I said it more from a standpoint in their defense because everyone seems to have such extremely high expectations of them and are always complaining about their disappointments. Dont attack me just because they arent virtuosos... that is not *my* fault. Joe responds... - ---It's TOTALLY your fault Mimi! Who else has the connections to make these things happen?:) I think you're missing my point about virtuosos. WHat's so great about em? Maybe we mean different things but I think of virtousos as in "there can be only one!!!!!" Ego's, incessant soloing without anybody keepin' the house in order. I imagine people constantly one-upping each other. These ego trips DESTROY bands. Now if you mean quality players who are able to step out of the light--then I guess maybe V's aint so bad. Mimi again... And as for false credibilty, for someone who decides to address me with animosity, then there will be no impressing them no matter WHO i am. I could be a fast-food worker, but it doesnt take away from the fact that I am right. Joe's response... - ---No and Yes. I disagree that you can't turn people. If you have good ideas you can turn people. At least i hope so, or open-mindedness doesn't exist. As for schleppin burgers you're absolutely right. Where you work, who you sleep with, etc are totally irrelevant. In the same way, please don't stop listening because you feel attacked. You're safe. You don't know that I'm a SONY exec *without* an axe to grind:) Onto the next post... Tommy Mottola Sony Music ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 01:02:16 -0700 From: Joe Sullivan Subject: MM: Joe rereads Mimi's compliments... "One more thing Joe, Reread my original post--i COMPLIMENTED them, not insulted them." (Mimi's post in quotes. Joe's commentary preceded by dashes.) Mimi compliments: 1. "So i automatically assumed that "wow, he must have gotten some incredible nashville players!" so you could imagine my level of expectation..... and then, even more my disappointment when i realized they were just regular guys." - ---Yeah nice haircut! I mean I assumed you were gonna get the fly dew...you can imagine how bummed I was to see how it actually turned out!!! 2. "When I first heard the band, I'm sorry, but to me they sounded like a Patty Griffin *cover band*... After time, I began to realize they were just playing to the best of their individual abilities." - ---Great Job!!! "I'm Sorry" but you're SO great you sound like a COVER BAND!!! All the greats have sounded like cover bands actually. You're abilities are sooooo stellar you remind me of an elvis impersonator!!! 3. From what i have seen, they are at least good if not adequate, but every time I have seen them, they are missing out on one of the basic and fundamental principles of playing onstage with a vocalist... - ---Congratulations!!!! You're at least good if not adequate, BUT you miss the boat on the fundamentals! - ---Good if not adequate? Der?! This third point may actually be a compliment. But frankly Mimi I lose sight of it because it sounds like you're handing the truths down from the mountain tops. It seems to come across like you're some genius on skilled musicianship. Is adequate normally a compliment? The passage that gives me this impression is... "Given that i run a record label here in austin... (a Jazz and Rock label at that!)... i know some of the best players and virtuosos in the music industry, especially some new, rising talents that could play circles around most any non-jazz schooled player. I mean, talk about virtuosos...that's what my record label specializes in!!" - ---It seems like many of my favorite musicians are not "jazz schooled." I guess it depends what music does for you. Jimi Hendrix and the whole history of blues AND the roots of jazz go against everything you say. Jazz schooled? Light that shit on fire. Step outside the form. Move the audience. If you see that Buddha guitar player in the road you got to run 'em over. (at least pass em by) "And as for Mike Baker... i was told he was "out all week" and by the time i got a hold of him he told me he had already gotten the players he needed... (i was late). Plus he wanted them to be based in Nashville for rehearsal purposes. And I can almost guarantee that I was one of many people who wanted to suggest some players." - ---I don't know who Mike Baker is. Sorry for being a smart ass and speculating about him. "And for the record, I happened to love both performances on the tv shows in spite of Patty being to far back in the mix, and if you were to read the digests, you will find that I was one of the original people who suggested Blue Sky as a single release, so get off my case." - ---I didn't see the shows. As for being on your case, it has nothing to do with the points you make about the mix. I liked those. It's more the name-droppin', resume-pumpin', music-scenester, cigar-twirlin' tone. Authority should come from the reasons, details you cite. As opposed to who you hang with, who you've signed, where you live, who your daddy is, what school you went to, etc. Those hierarchies suck and rub me the wrong way. I hope you won't hold it against me. I'll get off your case. adios senorita, Che Guevara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:53:22 EDT From: NuAgeThnkr@aol.com Subject: MM: Choices... I like Patty's band... Ideally, if I were choosing the band, I would have, oh, let's say, Kenny Aronoff on drums (who played a bit on FR), Ed Roland on guitar (along with Patty, of course), Sting on bass, and Little Richard on keyboards... okay, maybe not little Richard... Sarah McLachlan, maybe, and she could sing backup with Ed and Sting... Oh, and I'd probably play tambourine or something... That's just me... But, I hardly doubt that mix would make a decent band, as fun as it might be trying... Patty's guys are good (we agreed on that, didn't we?) and they're certainly nice... so I think she did fine... And obviously the people who are directly involved made their choices for a reason... rehearsing and playing in Nashville, getting along with each other (and you're fooling yourself if you don't think that's very important), and talented and egoless enough to grow into a sound... I'd be the first to admit, when I identify with a song and singer like I do when I hear Moses (or all of her songs for that matter), I begin to feel that I know what's best for Patty... (what singles she should release, who should be in her band, where they should rehearse, what and where they should play, how much to charge for tickets, what she should wear) ...and strong feelings about those sorts of things is only a meter of how strongly I feel about her and her band. and talking about those things is fun, often insightful, and certainly one of the reasons this list exists... ...but only Patty is in charge of Patty (even when she chooses not to be in charge), and I respect her decisions, even when I don't agree with them... ...and even though Patty may not have made the decision, for example, to release Blue Sky as the next single (though I'm sure her input was considered), she did make the decision to sign the contract that let the suits make that decision, so, in a way, it was her decision... and part of her growth as an artist and a person comes from just such experiences... ...and she may or may not continue to create music as part of that growth (though I'm certain she will)... ...and I may choose to listen to that new music or not (though I'm certain I will)... ...but I certainly like Patty (and her band) now, can't get enough of 'em... ...and I respect her, them, and their decisions enough to give them room for growth without the added weight of expectations... ...and even though I will certainly offer My Humble Opinion if asked (and an occassional suggestion when not asked), I will certainly not be offended if my ideas go unheeded or ignored. I will continue to offer her/them all I can muster of hope, good thoughts, and unfettered support... ...and a big THANK YOU for now for the gift of their music... - --Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:07:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Clough Subject: Re: MM: Choices... As much as I'd like to move on from this topic, I have to ask if this is the same band that played with her at The House Of Blues several months ago? She opened for Sister Hazel. Anyone know? Band guys? I slept through Letterman so it's basically irrelevant. Just curious. - -Chris - --- NuAgeThnkr@aol.com wrote: > I like Patty's band... > > Ideally, if I were choosing the band, I would have, > oh, let's say, Kenny > Aronoff on drums (who played a bit on FR), Ed Roland > on guitar (along with > Patty, of course), Sting on bass, and Little Richard > on keyboards... okay, > maybe not little Richard... Sarah McLachlan, maybe, > and she could sing > backup with Ed and Sting... > > Oh, and I'd probably play tambourine or something... > > That's just me... > > But, I hardly doubt that mix would make a decent > band, as fun as it might be > trying... > > Patty's guys are good (we agreed on that, didn't > we?) and they're certainly > nice... so I think she did fine... > > And obviously the people who are directly involved > made their choices for a > reason... rehearsing and playing in Nashville, > getting along with each other > (and you're fooling yourself if you don't think > that's very important), and > talented and egoless enough to grow into a sound... > > I'd be the first to admit, when I identify with a > song and singer like I do > when I hear Moses (or all of her songs for that > matter), I begin to feel that > I know what's best for Patty... (what singles she > should release, who should > be in her band, where they should rehearse, what and > where they should play, > how much to charge for tickets, what she should > wear) ...and strong feelings > about those sorts of things is only a meter of how > strongly I feel about her > and her band. > > and talking about those things is fun, often > insightful, and certainly one of > the reasons this list exists... > > ...but only Patty is in charge of Patty (even when > she chooses not to be in > charge), and I respect her decisions, even when I > don't agree with them... > > ...and even though Patty may not have made the > decision, for example, to > release Blue Sky as the next single (though I'm sure > her input was > considered), she did make the decision to sign the > contract that let the > suits make that decision, so, in a way, it was her > decision... and part of > her growth as an artist and a person comes from just > such experiences... > > ...and she may or may not continue to create music > as part of that growth > (though I'm certain she will)... > > ...and I may choose to listen to that new music or > not (though I'm certain I > will)... > > ...but I certainly like Patty (and her band) now, > can't get enough of 'em... > > ...and I respect her, them, and their decisions > enough to give them room for > growth without the added weight of expectations... > > ...and even though I will certainly offer My Humble > Opinion if asked (and an > occassional suggestion when not asked), I will > certainly not be offended if > my ideas go unheeded or ignored. > > I will continue to offer her/them all I can muster > of hope, good thoughts, > and unfettered support... > > ...and a big THANK YOU for now for the gift of their > music... > > --Keith > === "An un-sober hippy lying naked on his back says he lives in cardboard cities not out of spite but because of the fact that people paper over cracks in sunny retreats until their heart attacks them There is no reincarnation, you're only human once So make yourself at home" - -The Trash Can Sinatras _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:50:58 -0500 From: "Bright, Darin" Subject: MM: RE: Joe rereads Mimi's compliments... Joe - You need to get a job. I have never read such a boring email. Is this what you do on Saturday nights? Everyone has their own opinion and how they express it. Either you are very insecure with your job, life, bank account - or you know Mike Baker (which I would at least applaud you for being loyal). Unfortunately for you, I'm pretty sure you don't know Mike Baker. In some twisted way you really know how to analyze an email to a degree that is so scary, I would recommend therapy. I'm not saying that Mimi didn't promote herself a little, but did you ever consider that she gave a background partly to lend credibility to her statements. I guess she hit a nerve!! Are you a novice player - or have recently been described as one? Hey, if you have any substantial comments or suggestions other than "whoa, they're coooool" give it a try. All I keep reading (clogging up my email) is your opinion on the messenger - not the message. Anyway, "I hope you won't hold it against me." Just give it a break. Shorter, more meaningful emails go a longer way. > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Sullivan [SMTP:joe@techresource.org] > Sent: Monday, July 26, 1999 3:02 AM > To: mad-mission@smoe.org > Subject: MM: Joe rereads Mimi's compliments... > > "One more thing Joe, > Reread my original post--i COMPLIMENTED them, not insulted them." > > > (Mimi's post in quotes. Joe's commentary preceded by dashes.) > > > Mimi compliments: > > 1. "So i automatically assumed that "wow, he must have gotten some > incredible nashville players!" so you > could imagine my level of expectation..... and then, even more my > disappointment when i realized they > were just regular guys." > > ---Yeah nice haircut! I mean I assumed you were gonna get the fly > dew...you > can imagine how bummed I was to see how it actually turned out!!! > > 2. "When I first heard the band, I'm sorry, but to me they sounded like a > Patty Griffin *cover band*... > After time, I began to realize they were just playing to the best of their > individual abilities." > > ---Great Job!!! "I'm Sorry" but you're SO great you sound like a COVER > BAND!!! All the greats have sounded like cover bands actually. You're > abilities are sooooo stellar you remind me of an elvis impersonator!!! > > 3. From what i have seen, they are at least good if not adequate, but > every > time I have seen them, they are missing out on one of the basic and > fundamental > principles of playing onstage with a vocalist... > > ---Congratulations!!!! You're at least good if not adequate, BUT you miss > the boat on the fundamentals! > > ---Good if not adequate? Der?! This third point may actually be a > compliment. But frankly Mimi I lose sight of it because it sounds like > you're handing the truths down from the mountain tops. It seems to come > across like you're some genius on skilled musicianship. Is adequate > normally a compliment? The passage that gives me this impression is... > > "Given that i run a record label here in austin... (a Jazz and Rock label > at > > that!)... i know some of the best players and virtuosos in the music > industry, especially some new, rising talents that could play circles > around > most any non-jazz schooled player. I mean, talk about virtuosos...that's > what my record label specializes in!!" > > ---It seems like many of my favorite musicians are not "jazz schooled." I > guess it depends what music does for you. Jimi Hendrix and the whole > history of blues AND the roots of jazz go against everything you say. > Jazz > schooled? Light that shit on fire. Step outside the form. Move the > audience. If you see that Buddha guitar player in the road you got to run > 'em over. (at least pass em by) > > "And as for Mike Baker... i was told he was "out all week" and by the time > i > > got a hold of him he told me he had already gotten the players he > needed... > (i was late). Plus he wanted them to be based in Nashville for rehearsal > purposes. And I can almost guarantee that I was one of many people who > wanted > to suggest some players." > > ---I don't know who Mike Baker is. Sorry for being a smart ass and > speculating about him. > > "And for the record, I happened to love both performances on the tv shows > in > > spite of Patty being to far back in the mix, and if you were to read the > digests, you will find that I was one of the original people who suggested > > Blue Sky as a single release, so get off my case." > > ---I didn't see the shows. As for being on your case, it has nothing to do > with the points you make about the mix. I liked those. It's more the > name-droppin', resume-pumpin', music-scenester, cigar-twirlin' tone. > Authority should come from the reasons, details you cite. As opposed to > who > you hang with, who you've signed, where you live, who your daddy is, what > school you went to, etc. Those hierarchies suck and rub me the wrong way. > I hope you won't hold it against me. I'll get off your case. > > adios senorita, > > Che Guevara > ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V3 #218 *********************************