From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V3 #141 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.spectra.net/~ducksoup/pattyg/patttyg.htm * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com * then click "tour" and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V3 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Sunday, May 16 1999 Volume 03 : Number 141 Today's Subjects: ----------------- MM: Clutch Cargo's (!) [JessBartn@aol.com] MM: clutch cargos [Remy457@aol.com] MM: Some thoughts on idolatry. [JessBartn@aol.com] Re: MM: Some thoughts on idolatry. [UMCaner74@aol.com] Re: MM: Some thoughts on idolatry. [Han ] MM: RE: Idolatry [Suzsteph@aol.com] MM: Idolatry remembered [NuAgeThnkr@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 15:11:01 EDT From: JessBartn@aol.com Subject: MM: Clutch Cargo's (!) Well we did it, we drove five hours from Chicago to Michigan to see Patty perform! (Welllllll worth the long drive) As some other's have mentioned, Patty DID look tired in her sweet little flowered dress, guess it's been a long tour. Clutch Cargo's is an old church, which I thought rather ironic, considering some of the religiously controversial songs that Patty sings. But a very cool venue, with a balcony and stained glass windows. The sound was a bit bad....as a lot of people have mentioned, and there were a few moments when I couldn't hear Patty over the band, but they seemed to be aware of the problem and toned down a bit when that happened. All that aside, PATTY ROCKED! We in the first front rows cheered our bloody heads off every time she took a breath, it was so wonderful to hear her powerful voice again! That new song about breaking up somebody's home was SOOO good, you guys all need to hear it a.s.a.p! She sang mostly flaming red stuff, then came out for a beautiful acoustic encore of Sweet Lorraine (response to our stomping and chanting..hehe) Patty's sweet keyboard player was very nice to my daughter and I after the show and made sure we got patty's copy of the setlist, a signed poster and shirt. He really was cool, even though he did call me "MAW" ;-) Patty herself did not come out of the bus to sign...but I can understand that, she put on one helluva performance, and I'm grateful for that. I'm grateful for everytime she gives us the opportunity to hear he sing. On that note, I'll sign off. By the way, I did see the older red headed woman running around who looked alot like Patty, I guess she might be a sister? »§«:*´`³¤³´`*:»§«. Jess, .Another Patty Enthusiast .»§«:*´`³¤³´`*:»§« ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 16:14:53 EDT From: Remy457@aol.com Subject: MM: clutch cargos Well, I finally got to see Patty and she was awesome. She played mostly stuff from Flaming Red and came back out at the end and played Sweet Loraine, which I thought was her best song in her set. It was difficult to hear her at times, the band kind of power powered her at times, particularly on Blue Sky, but nonetheless she was really great. Her voice was just awesome on Sweet Loraine. Her voice is what hooked me on her and to hear her beautiful voice without the band to drown her out just kicked ass. My two friends who had never heard her before thought she was really good. That's 2 more fans to fan the bases which just grows at every show she plays. I learned just how inaccessible that place is. I'm in a big power wheelchair and I had to have 4 big guys lift me up a flight of ten stairs to get to the main floor. But once I was inside I worked my way toward the front and was just to the right of the stage and had a good view of the stage.I got a poster from the key boardist and I asked him if I could say hello to Patty, he said she was giving an interview, but said he would see what he could do. Well, unfortunately I didn't talk to her, maybe next time. She only played for about 40 minutes and I was hoping she would play longer, but at least I got to see her. Lucinda Williams was good also (though not as good as Patty). Lucinda's band was really good. So all in all it made for a great night. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 17:36:57 EDT From: JessBartn@aol.com Subject: MM: Some thoughts on idolatry. This letter is a collection of personal thoughts & opinions, so please delete it now if you aren't interested. For the flamers, don't bother, because I won't react or respond. :-) Well, here I sit, a few days after seeing Patty perform in Michigan, peeling her pictures off of the 5X5' beautifully painted canvas that I so carefully mounted them on. (I'll tell ya why in a sec.) Last summer, I was swooning with admiration and excitement when Flaming Red came out, so I started my "Patty Griffin" painting. My life kinda sucked at the time, we had just lost our family business and were trying to rebuild our lives from ground zero again in a new State. We were down to one car, that my husband took to work...so I was stuck in a tiny apartment all summer with the kids, which was better than the "under the bridge" solution, after losing our home. Anyway...I had enough money to buy Flaming Red when it came out, and I listened to it over and over while I worked on my painting. I sketched some pictures of Patty and mounted them on this colorful painting. It was my "tribute" to a wonderful artist. We are now "back on our feet" financially, in a nice house, and back on the right road in life. Here I am a year later....as I said, peeling Patty's pictures off of my painting. The whole time, thinking about why... I went to the Clutch cargo's show in MI the other night. It was a great all ages show, and I brought my husband & 12 year old daughter. After the show I asked my daughter if she'd like to get her shirt autographed by Patty and the band, she said yeah, So we went out back to the tour bus to get it signed. (I've done this before a few times) Well we waited and waited in the cold for the star to come out and sign her name. My daughter was so caught up in the "groupie" thing, that it made me think about how I might have influenced her to do this...and I started analyzing WHY we were out there waiting for a silly signature from a stranger. I mean, what is so special about a signature anyway? It's only few lines on a piece of paper right? I realized that ultimately what we really wanted was some attention from Patty, because we were so enthralled with her talent. I glanced over and saw my daughter trying to see inside the windows of the bus, or get a glimpse of the star. My heart dropped, I felt so bad for even being back there...waiting for a scrap to be thrown our way from a stranger. I mean, Patty is just another human being who sings. What else can she possibly give us? She gives us her songs...that's all we should really expect, right? I feel for famous people, everyone wants to steal a little piece of their time. It's sad. Anyway, her drummer came out and took the shirt from my daughter, went on the bus and had it signed, and brought it back out. She said thank you, but was visibly disappointed and rejected. I felt horrible... I had to talk her into leaving, telling her that Patty was in fact, NOT coming out to visit with her. So, we left. Since that night I have been trying to figure out what my Patty Griffin idolatry means. I wonder if it's because I secretly want to be her...to sing like her....be admired like her? To be able to express myself the way she does...to be listened to...to be heard? Perhaps. Maybe I want her signatures, and her pictures because it helps me thank her for singing like an angel? I dunno why, but I do know that I feel myself growing up, finally, at age 31...because I no longer feel the need to wait in an alley for the attention of a star. I only hope I can subtly teach my daughter to develop her own life, and not passively watch someone else live and be envious. As for patty? I will always love her music, I'll buy her CD's, I'll even see her in concert every chance I get and go "woooooo" when she hits a note that touches my heart, afterall she is enchanting. And my painting? It's getting a makeover. It's bursting with colors and dripping with wisdom. I will always think of it as my Patty Griffin painting, but instead of having her face on it, it's have the strokes of my very own paintbrush. Thanks to anyone who listened. Jess ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 18:20:12 EDT From: UMCaner74@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: Some thoughts on idolatry. Jess, Very interesting post. It brings many thoughts to mind as to WHY we act like we do around people we admire. I never really thought a whole lot about why I do all those things that big fans such as ourselves do...wait in alleys to get things signed etc..I just know that I do it b/c I love them, and I just don't want to let them go QUITE YET! To get off the subject for just a moment...It seems as though it's much more difficult to get Patty to sign things, and come out to talk to you when she's opening. I don't know why, it's just how it is. When I saw her last week opening for Lucinda..I was with a friend of mine who had never seen Patty before, and OBVIOUSLY was very impressed with the enchanting performance of our Beautiful Ms. Griffin. As I took her outside to the place to meet Patty, a security guard stopped us, and told us that we were not allowed to ask Patty, OR the rest of the band to sign anything. This was not really that big of a deal to me, but I think my friend was just a bit disappointed, b/c of how I had raved of Patty's sweetness, kindness, and just that feeling that I think all of us feel when we stand next to her. Back to Jess's thoughts though. I think for me, it is the passion that a musician has for their art...that emotion and fire in their voice, the way they play their guitar. The more time goes on, I find myself more interested in ANY kind of music when the person is not only a talented musician, but is very good at expressing themselves, and is very passionate about their songs. When someone does both of those things, as Patty does, and when she writes songs that are so INCREDIBLY easy to make your own songs...it just drives me crazy. The feelings that Patty makes me feel when I hear her sing are unable to be described in words. It is precisely those reasons why I admire her, and that is why I have put well over 6,000 miles on my car just going to see Patty perform over the last 3 years! That feeling you get as she sings Mary live is just unreal. I have yet to sit there and look into her eyes as she sings that song, and NOT get tears in my eyes. Maybe it is a bit of envy..b/c of the way that Patty can seemingly so easily and perfectly pour her heart out. Maybe it's just in complete and total admiration, and I just can't get enough of it. When I sit there and watch Patty perform, I'm just totally entranced by her. Just her presense on stage gets my total attention, I'm totally oblivious to anything that's going on around me. For 90 minutes, I can just sit there and no other thoughts go through my mind. I can just look into her eyes, watch her move, and of course hear that angel-like voice that we ALL know and love. It's really a beautiful escape from reality, and that is why I will continue to go see Patty OVER and OVER for as long as she continues doing what she's doing...which is hopefully for a LONG time! I think I'll stop now before I SCARE anyone...as always, thanks everyone for listening. I think Jess's post was one of the best ones that I've ever read on this list, and I would love to know how others feel about this. There are MANY of you who hardly ever say anything on this list..so I'm encouraging YOU the people, to speak up on this subject! Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 19:43:25 -0400 From: Han Subject: Re: MM: Some thoughts on idolatry. Hi, Jess is right--Patty, like all singers and actors and other celebrities we admire, is just a person like anyone else. Your post was very moving, Jess. I have some experience with this whole topic, so I'll try and make it brief. When I was 18, just getting out of high school. I was *obsessed* with 10,000 Maniacs. Natalie Merchant in particular. I had a massive crush on her, her music, her life, everything. I went to every show I could go to. i entered a lyrics writing contest sponsored by Elektra... To make a long story short... between hanging out after the show and the backstage passes I won from that contest... I got to know the band. I ended up in a relationship with Rob Buck, the guitarist, for a year. They broke up in the middle of that year--so it was a turbulent time. I was backstage at all the shows. I hung out in their hometown of Jamestown. I jetted to New Orleans and rode to Dave Latterman with Natalie in the back of a limo. It was an intense time. I was between high school and college with about 9 months off, and was insecure and confused... Rob was part of this thing that I worshipped... we had a connection, even though he was twice my age, and had so much more power than I did... I started Brown University in Jan. 1994 and decided for my own mental health to leave Rob and the groupie life behind. I broke up with him and shaved my head bald and started anew... It was so painful... everyone on campus was wearing 10,000 Maniacs shirts!!! Their songs played in every godforsaken store I went into... People always ask me: what was it like? What was Natalie like? Well, it was pretty grim... The music business, like any, is full of hard numbers and backstabbing and gossip and image... Natalie was truly unkind and ungenerous to me... very cold always. Rob and I ran into her brother at a gas station in Jamestown once. He had plastic taped over the windows of his rusting out pickup truck. Lots of kids. It was a striking contrast to Natalie and her $1500 dresses. Rob was bitter... and insecure, and hurt inside from all the compromising he had to do to make it so far in the music business. I still talk to him sometimes, as he struggles without her and she fakes her music-writing abilities without her former band. I feel sorry for him--for all of them. That hunger for fame seems a to me a void that cannot really be filled by others--but must ultimately be filled by oneself. I keep hoping this doesn't happen to Patty--too much sad compromising. Why are we drawn to these people? They share life stories, rendered in human voice and crafted music, and there is wisdom in it--as in any art. We connect with it and feel we are connected with *them* too... and we are grateful when their songs get us through a painful time in life, like Jess wrote about... Realizing that musicians, celebrities *are* just people has taken them down some notches for me, but also made me feel like I can write them a card, or bring them flowers, to let them know how much their work has touched me. It's not being a "groupie" anymore--"how close can I get?" It's just a reaching-out that is normal to desire when you feel connected with another person. But then you go on with your life, and let them have theirs, as Jess eloquently pointed out. Thanks for reading... Han ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 20:10:49 EDT From: Suzsteph@aol.com Subject: MM: RE: Idolatry I was at the Clutch Cargo show and saw Jess and her child! How weird! Anyhow the idolatry thing is so true. I have been an avid fan of Sarah Mclachlan since the early nineties. I have seen her about 20 times and have met her twice. I can't explain it except I have always wanted to be a professional musician. I guess I am living life a tiny bit vicariously through her. I am not psycho or anything. I just identify with her so deeply. But if I think about it too long it seems strange to feel that close to a total stranger. When I met Patty at the record store and got her autograph Friday, I was a bit nervous and stumbled with words at first. She was just so "normal" she was just like a person you asked what time it was walking down the street. What is it about music that makes people seem larger than life!? Stephanie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 23:51:57 EDT From: NuAgeThnkr@aol.com Subject: MM: Idolatry remembered This is a LONG posting connected to the previous postings.... feel free to delete, skip, scan, rant, rave, etc. As I read Han's posting about Natalie Merchant, I remembered something... My grandmother tells a wonderful story of when she went to see "Hello, Dolly" in its original run on Broadway. As expected, the show was sold out and my grandmother was hoping for standby tickets. It was cold, and as she waited in line, it began to rain. After a bit, my grandmother noticed someone with an umbrella coming down the line chatting and serving hot tea to those people waiting in the rain. As the server got closer, my grandmother realized it was Carol Channing... If I were famous, would I have done that? I'd like to think so, but probably not... And consider Han's experience with Natalie Merchant... If I were famous, would I have done that? I'd like to think no, but possibly... But, both Carol Channing and Natalie Merchant made choices in those situations... Perhaps Carol thought she could use more fans, or maybe she just thought those people in line could use some hot tea, and as a result she gained a few more fans... Perhaps Natalie thought she could stand to lose a fan, or maybe she didn't care for Han, and as a result she lost a fan... But both Natalie and Carol made choices... And choice is important... If an artist were to publicly endorse the use of heroin, they would have to accept the consumer's right to reject their music based on that statement... The use of buying power is the voice of the consumer, and, unfortunately, if an artist's lifestyle is one the public finds disagreeable, they have the right to reject that artist even though the lifestyle may have no direct connection to the artist's work... And, of course, every lyric a musician writes and sings is a "public statement." Every appearance a celebrity makes (or doesn't make) is a "public statement." I am troubled by the fact that "Tony" will never get airplay, but also a little gleeful that some listeners don't get a chance to reject Patty based on the song's content. I am troubled by the disappointment of Jess and her daughter waiting for Patty's signature, but pleased that her music has the ability to elicit that response. So, finally making my point... From Patty's side, her trailer is "home" while she's on the road. I wonder how I might respond to people looking into the windows of my home, or waiting beside my door? I'd like to think that I would smile, and talk, and sign autographs, and I'm sure I would most of the time... but every time? From Jess's side, she and her daughter drove a long way, waited a long time, and have been loyal fans for a long time. Is a moment's acknowledgement too much to ask? The truth is.. If Patty had been aware of Jess's reality, I'm sure she would have stepped out of the trailer... If Jess had been aware of Patty's reality, I'm sure she would have accepted Patty's choice not to... Not dismissing Han's experience with Natalie (but that went beyond public to become personal), but I'm sure that some nights Natalie Merchant is an angel and that some nights Carol Channing is not... That's just the way it is... I was in Nashville this weekend to see a friend's show and had tickets for Lucinda Williams in hopes of seeing Patty open for her, but I realized the ONLY reason I would be sticking around Nashville for a few more days was to see Patty... Being a South Carolinian for the last several years, I haven't had a chance to see Patty in concert yet (though I plan to see her at the Newport Festival in August), and, like Jess, I planned to try and catch Patty after the show in hopes of seeing her upclose and having her sign a CD... Anyway I decided to drive the eight hours home (but don't worry, the tickets went to other deserving fans) ... Yet as I think about it, if I had stood outside her trailer and she didn't come out, would I be disappointed? Yes... Would I wait the next time? Yes... And another time? Maybe... And a fourth? Probably not... But it's my choice to wait, and her choice to appear... ...hopefully with hot tea. - --Keith ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V3 #141 *********************************