From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V3 #74 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you ever wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.spectra.net/~ducksoup/pattyg/patttyg.htm * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com * then click "tour" and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V3 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Sunday, March 21 1999 Volume 03 : Number 074 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: MM: RE: RE: Awards shows and the biz.of sellin' out [MolliMo@aol.com] MM: Re: Re: Art of Sellin' Out? ["Marc Hertz" ] Re: MM: RE: RE: Awards shows and the biz.of sellin' out [COOLTUNES5@aol.c] Re: MM: Art of Sellin' Out? [COOLTUNES5@aol.com] MM: RE: off the subject just a tad!!! [COOLTUNES5@aol.com] MM: Fight the power, get a job [Joe Sullivan ] [none] ["Mike Gorecki" ] MM: Re: Fight the power, get a job ["James P" ] MM: Re: ["Michael C. Gay" ] MM: Riverstages ["James P" ] MM: amanda ["Mike Gorecki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:37:58 EST From: MolliMo@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: RE: RE: Awards shows and the biz.of sellin' out I think that you guys are not giving the people enough credit. Yes exposure and the label putting tons of money behind the artist helps, but those are not the only elements. Look at Sarah Mclachlan, Ani Difranco, Barenaked Ladies, etc. They had practically no exposure or support from their labels. Yet because they were incredible artists, they developed a cult following. As the following got bigger and bigger the labels finally took notice. It isn't souly the job of the artist and the record label to get the world interested. It's word of mouth and the support of fans. If we want patty to become a star then it's our jobs as well to introduce our friends, family, etc to her wonderful music. Molli ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 23:59:11 -0800 From: "Marc Hertz" Subject: MM: Re: Re: Art of Sellin' Out? I realize asking this question probably goes against what people have been trying to say in this thread, but does anyone know the numbers on records sold for Flaming Red? Someone mentioned the 100,000 mark and that got me wondering about how successful Patty's album has been commercially, because we know it's been pretty well-received critically. And on the whole issue of style vs. substance (which is what it seems to boil down to), I liked hearing someone say they have both all of Ani's albums and all of Celine's albums. If you like a song or an artist, you do, and that's really your choice. Telling someone you can't like the Backstreet Boys, for instance, because they're talentless creations of a record company meant to appeal to the masses based on their looks and their catchy tunes is like telling someone they can't like pizza because, well, everyone likes pizza, it's so basic, etc. You like food because you like how it tastes, and you usually like music because you like how it sounds, or how it makes you feel. I sometimes get fed up with music snobs, like those who only like college radio and turn their nose up at anything that either is or becomes top 40. I've loved Sarah McLachlan since I first heard her voice, and how she's able to bear her soul with her voice and with her lyrics. Now, she's had a number one single, but that doesn't mean I can't like her because she 'sold out.' If I think she starts to put out shitty albums, sure, I might get tired of her, but I personally don't think she's done that, so I'll continue to love her. If you saw my CD collection, you'd see some contradictions. Along with Patty, Sarah, Paula, Jewel, the Indigo Girls, Shawn Colvin, Natalie Merchant, Ellis Paul, etc., I have Expose, Mariah, Celine, Brandy, Michael Bolton, and even Hanson. Maybe most of you are holding your stomachs to stop from throwing up, or maybe you're thinking 'I guess I'm not the only one with diverging tastes.' I just know what I like, and when I like what I hear, I buy it. Some artists move me because of their lyrics, some move me because of their passion, some move me because of how they sound, and some move me because they have catchy tunes that I enjoy singing along with, dancing to, whatever, but the single thing they all share is that they moved me. I'm well aware that the Backstreet Boys have very little talent, pretty mindless lyrics, probably pretty basic muscial compositions (even though I don't know enough about that to say for certain), but I've also found myself enjoying one or two of their songs. It ain't a crime. The basic point I've been trying to make in this rambling is that people make music to express themselves and people listen to music to enjoy themselves, to cry, to laugh, to dance - to feel something. Therefore, it shouldn't really matter who's singing - it should matter how they make you feel, and if they move you. Patty moves us and that's why we love her. If she pulled an Alanis and sold 20 million records on her next album, I have a hard time believing people on this list would abandon her because she's top 40. Marc - -----Original Message----- From: Ronda Blacksher To: Victoria Chenevey ; Wendy J ; mad-mission@smoe.org Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 2:54 PM Subject: MM: Re: Art of Sellin' Out? >Well, it seems the trouble with working within the system is that gravy >tends to be the end result (one woman's opinion only). I guess I want Patty >to be ragingly successful but not lose the fire that seems to inevitably go >or lessen. A definite Catch-22 it seems. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 07:33:03 EST From: COOLTUNES5@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: RE: RE: Awards shows and the biz.of sellin' out hey all, lets not lose sight of what we all like here. We all seem to admire the same thing"The Music". Some of us just see the bottle half full, others half empty, all that means is we both have the same appreciation, from slightly diffeent views! ;-))))))))))) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 07:38:47 EST From: COOLTUNES5@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: Art of Sellin' Out? touche, Cristina, you spoke my piece perfectly. I started this debate, and you put the definitive spin i was lookin for on it ;-))))))))) <<<>>> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 10:54:35 EST From: COOLTUNES5@aol.com Subject: MM: RE: off the subject just a tad!!! Once again i think we have strayed off the original point of that i originally tried to make when i started this lil topic of conversation! all i was saying is that its disturbing to see somewhat mediocre talent glorified in a "awards ceremony" in the name of "best in their field or class" , when what its really about is # of units sold. Im not arguing the merits of these people to be sucessful, all I'm saying is if you are gonna have a "awards ceremony", choose those folks most deserving. In my humble opinion there was better music produced out there last year than Lauren Hill, and Shania Twain! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:58:32 -0800 From: Joe Sullivan Subject: MM: Fight the power, get a job Mad missionaries, Many excellent points posted. Three thoughts... 1. Capitalism Evil, music business evil, is too simple. It's not that black and white. I agree with the "realists" that money makes the world go round--good or bad. I appreciate/agree with the capitalism is evil proponents, but if you think you're going smoke bong-hits on my couch indefinitely without a job because the economy is evil, get a fucking life. yeah, how about a plan too. 2. My Plan: Trying to keep it direct, local seems like one way to limit the effect of mega-corps who own the artists works, the media that publicize them, the award shows that "honor" them, (many) journalists who review them, etc. Supporting live music, buying your cd's at shows, swapping tapes etc. This is the way many acts "made it" as others have noted: the Dead, Ani, the entire hip-hop movement before stations would play rap. That's how I "discovered" Patty. If you're buying your music from BMG, Wal-Mart etc. You shouldn't. If you're going to have a complex over your own purchasing habits, please feel free to comfort yourself/ourself with the fact that it's only one small part of the economy, everybody's doin it, etc. 3. If Celine Dion brings a tear to your eye that's your taste--maybe you could hook me up with some Barry Manilow bootlegs. I've heard Exodus International can "reprogram" you. Good luck:) Pat Robertson ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:42:21 -0500 From: "Mike Gorecki" Subject: [none] All these silly points you make are moot..no one cares and even if they did, no one buys into anything they don't believe to be true...Please don't respond to this..This post, like so many others, is just a statement, not a question. I don't care what any of you think, and it does not require an answer. whatever we like is what is good....its really simple. it is not really open to discussion and requires none. I don't need an answer to this....remember I am not asking a question..Nor do I care about what you have to say. But I know how irresistible it is to respond so..... and so it goes. I'll keep it brief..I get a lot from Patty Griffins music. Her words are now a part of my effort to explain and deal with emotional issues for which I did not previously have the words...good sometimes ....sometimes I get too vulnerable to listen...then..I rather like Leo Kottke...pretty simple. goreck ime@cbpu.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:45:15 -0600 From: "James P" Subject: MM: Re: Fight the power, get a job Joe, Exactly who is the "you" that you are referring to in the 1st part of your post? I think that most of us on this list can be classified as intelligent people who have jobs and/or go to school and choose not to "smoke bongs" on "your" couch all day. Why do you choose to lump people that feel ill towards capitalism into the stereotype of a "bong-smoking hippie?" Isn't it you that wanted this discussion to happen in the first place? Very confused, Cristina - -----Original Message----- From: Joe Sullivan To: mad-mission@smoe.org Date: Saturday, March 20, 1999 11:59 AM Subject: MM: Fight the power, get a job >Mad missionaries, > >Many excellent points posted. Three thoughts... > >1. Capitalism Evil, music business evil, is too simple. It's not that >black and white. I agree with the "realists" that money makes the world go >round--good or bad. I appreciate/agree with the capitalism is evil >proponents, but if you think you're going smoke bong-hits on my couch >indefinitely without a job because the economy is evil, get a fucking life. >yeah, how about a plan too. > >2. My Plan: Trying to keep it direct, local seems like one way to limit the >effect of mega-corps who own the artists works, the media that publicize >them, the award shows that "honor" them, (many) journalists who review them, >etc. Supporting live music, buying your cd's at shows, swapping tapes etc. >This is the way many acts "made it" as others have noted: the Dead, Ani, >the entire hip-hop movement before stations would play rap. That's how I >"discovered" Patty. If you're buying your music from BMG, Wal-Mart etc. You >shouldn't. If you're going to have a complex over your own purchasing >habits, please feel free to comfort yourself/ourself with the fact that it's >only one small part of the economy, everybody's doin it, etc. > >3. If Celine Dion brings a tear to your eye that's your taste--maybe you >could hook me up with some Barry Manilow bootlegs. I've heard Exodus >International can "reprogram" you. Good luck:) > > >Pat Robertson > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:09:47 -0500 From: "Michael C. Gay" Subject: MM: Re: Mike Gorecki wrote: > I don't care what any of you think, and it does not require an > answer. > > it is not really open to discussion and requires none. I don't need an answer > to > this....remember I am not asking a question..Nor do I care about what you > have to say. But I know how irresistible it is to respond so..... Irresistible indeed! Wow, I know these quotes are out of context, but jeez, the phrase "who pissed in your kool-aid" springs to mind. I think we all have a deep appreciation for Patty's music, that is why we signed up on the list in the first place. But if you really don't care any of us think or have to say, you might want to try the digest version. ~ mike ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:48:59 -0600 From: "James P" Subject: MM: Riverstages Just wondering how many people on this list are going to the Nashville Riverstages to see Patty perform? Has anyone heard what date(s) she'll be performing? -Cristina ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:52:31 -0500 From: "Mike Gorecki" Subject: MM: amanda Amanda Love kotte's voice on "some cloudy day" and a few others...but have to agree...the guitar stuff is sweet. Just read the article in Performing Songwriter about Patty...pretty good stuff...it is the first..first person stuff I have seen. It really does help point out the line between songwriting and personal life stuff...I get fooled into thinking the songs are the person....sometimes the songs are just songs.....ah but beautiful things they are. Mike ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V3 #74 ********************************