From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V2 #169 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.spectra.net/~ducksoup/pattyg/patttour.htm * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com/road/index.html * and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V2 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Thursday, June 18 1998 Volume 02 : Number 169 Today's Subjects: ----------------- FW: Re[2]: MM: Re: give her some space -Reply [Amy_Emerman@time-inc.com] MM: a request [lgrady@lnmta.bentley.edu] MM: thanks ["Mike Gorecki" ] Re: Re: MM: is she listening? -Reply -Reply [Mooodeee@aol.com] Re: MM: RE: Sellout [Mooodeee@aol.com] FW: Re[2]: MM: Re: give her some space -Reply -Reply [Mark Cicero ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 15:03:10 -0400 From: Amy_Emerman@time-inc.com Subject: FW: Re[2]: MM: Re: give her some space -Reply - --------------- cc:Mail Forwarded --------------- From: jonathanc@photodisc.com AT TIME_INC Date: 06/18/98 11:50 AM To: mad-mission@smoe.org AT TIME_INCMC1@wallerlaw.com AT TIME_INC Cc: Subject: FW: Re[2]: MM: Re: give her some space -Reply Oh, just shut up and enjoy the music! :-)))))))) ______________________________ Forward Header _____________________________ _____ Subject: FW: Re[2]: MM: Re: give her some space -Reply Author: jonathanc@photodisc.com at TIME_INC Date: 6/18/98 11:50 AM Did I send this already? > ---------- > From: Jonathan Cooper > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 1998 11:35 AM > To: 'Mark Cicero' > Subject: RE: Re[2]: MM: Re: give her some space -Reply > > Mr. Cicero, > No flames necessary. We are actually in agreement if you squint your eyes > enough. I could never debate the veracity of your comments--indeed anyone > is subject to public scrutiny so long as he/she is of substantial fodder > for media attention. Whereas I would not qualify since I am fairly > unremarkable, Patty Griffin does and will continue to qualify as her fame > and visibility increase. My only intention was to distinguish between a > relatively small following of die-hard Patty Griffin fans, and the rest of > the unseen, disengaged populus. Since I am in theory only speaking to a > "fan" base, my assumption was that we could quell any attempts at asinine > remarks regarding the legitimacy of Ms. Griffin's social affairs. Though > I am not in complete agreement that we should endorse the public unveiling > of someone's private affairs (more on that later), I am certainly not > capable of thwarting these prickly inquiries into her life. I only seek > to convey that Patty (as mentioned by someone earlier) offers so much in > her artistic vision of herself, that prodding this way and that seems > somewhat ridiculous. We are told that to be a public figure one must > accept these nasty little bits. Why? Perhaps it is punishment or just > redemption for leaving ordinary people to fiddle with the inadequacies of > their lives? I don't really know, and I definitely don't care to know who > Ms. Griffin is dating--of that, I can assure you. As long as I am alive, > this will go on. I can not stop it try as I might. It is just a little > saddening to me, that is all. > Regards, > JBC > (Legal disclaimer: Not entirely meant to imply that you endorse such > public slayings..) > ---------- > From: Mark Cicero[SMTP:MC1@wallerlaw.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 1998 10:49 AM > To: jonathanc@photodisc.com > Subject: RE: Re[2]: MM: Re: give her some space -Reply > > Musicians work so hard at "making it" and I'm sure they understand that > making it means putting themselves out there in the "public eye", so to > speak. So why is that when their music and life in general begin to get > noticed that we are all of a sudden suppose to refrain from calling > attention to anything other than their music; as if to do so would be > disrespectful or somehow an invasion of privacy. They know what > they're getting into and once a person puts themselves out there then > they should except the good and the bad that goes with being a public > figure. (And I can't believe that Patty doesn't understand this) > > I'm not in a particlulary agreeable mood today, maybe I should just go > home and listen to "Forgiveness". > > Go ahead, flame away. > > Regards, > Mark > Nashville,TN > > >>> Jonathan Cooper 06/18/98 11:36am > >>> > I would hope that anyone who is soulful enough to appreciate the depth > and > breadth of PG's artistic talent is also sensitive enough to refrain from > reproach when it comes to Patty's personal engagements. > > Anyone who subscribes to this list is clearly devoted, in varying aspects > and degrees, to the tenure & outcome of Ms. Griffin's voyage--which is > to > say that we adore, respect, and admire her for her talent and gifts to the > artistic community. To be emotionally invested in her is not to imply (I > certainly hope) any capacity whatsoever to judge her along the way. I'm > sure > that no one was going that far, as much as I'm sure that this moderated > response is somewhat unnecessary. > > Bonne journee, > JBC > > > ---------- > > From: Eileen J. Griffin[SMTP:EILEENG@usm.maine.edu] > > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 1998 10:07 AM > > To: mad-mission@smoe.org > > Subject: Re: MM: Re: give her some space > > > > Thanks for your reply. And I'm sorry if I sounded a little > > high-handed. I just interpreted your comment in its worst light > > and perhaps overreacted. I've been regretting having sent that > > message for the last hour. > > > > > From: Amy_Emerman@time-inc.com > > > To: mad-mission@smoe.org > > > Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 10:55:11 -0400 > > > Subject: Re: MM: Re: give her some space > > > > > > > > > > > You are right. It wasn't meant to be hurtful...just an exclamation of > > > surprise. However, you are absolutely right and I apologize if that > > sounded > > > bad. > > > > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator > > ____________________________ > > > _____ > > > Subject: MM: Re: give her some space > > > Author: EILEENG@usm.maine.edu at TIME_INC > > > Date: 6/18/98 10:15 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have not posted to this list (or any list for that matter) but I > > > really feel the need to comment on Amy's message below. Having > just > > > discussed the fact that Patty is at least indirectly aware of the > > > content of this email list, I think a little sensitivity is called > > > for here. Say what you will about Patty's music or anything else > > > relating to her professional life, but I think it is VERY > > > inappropriate to comment on her personal life, especially when the > > > comment, as this one must be, is so extremely hurtful. Patty already > > > shares a tremendous amount of her personal life with her fans > through > > > her music. Don't take more than she gives. > > > > > > I am not familiar with the ways of these email lists, so I hope > > > that this message is not interpreted as a "flame." Just a reminder > > > that there's a professional Patty and a personal Patty, and it would > > > be nice if her fans remembered to give the personal Patty (and those > > > who are important to her in her personal life) some space. > > > > > > And by the way, I have met Troy Campbell and think he is an > > > exceptionally wonderful person. > > > > > > > From: Amy_Emerman@time-inc.com > > > > To: mad-mission@smoe.org > > > > Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:41:22 -0400 > > > > Subject: Re: MM: is she listening? (indirectly, yes) > > > > > > > > Patty's DATING that Troy Campbell guy that opened for her at the > Fez > > last > > > > Spring? Yikes! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 15:05:12 -0400 From: lgrady@lnmta.bentley.edu Subject: MM: a request Hey Y'all Could you PLEASE not re-send everyone else's posts with your own? If there is a particularly pertinent phrase or paragraph - cut and paste. We all have seen the earlier email - you don't need to add them for emphasis.... Just a pet peeve - but thanks in advance for your courtesy! - - LG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 15:12:29 -0700 From: "Mike Gorecki" Subject: MM: thanks many thanks to Jonathan cooper...your words were insightful and deserving of attention. this was a very smart note that makes great common sense. I love Flaming Red....but I must say I am still stuck on Mary.....maybe tonight I will try to get on with the rest of the tape. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 15:10:43 EDT From: Mooodeee@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: MM: is she listening? -Reply -Reply <> I live in Austin. I have an acquaintence friendship with Troy Campbell. I am the promotions director for a record label here in Austin, and we represent the guitarist/singer songwriter Monte Montgomery, among others. Troy knows me as a fan of Patty's as well as my position professionally. Troy and I often talk about music biz stuff as well as talk about things with Patty, and in general, what is going on with her tour, FR and the list. Frankly, I told him what you people have been saying. As far as the negative things people are saying having a disheartening effect on Patty, I only assume it, as most people are human and things of this nature have a tendancy to wear on one's esteem, no matter how strong and determined a person can be. As far as Patty trying the best that she can, her needing your support, and the band tightening up over time to work out the kinks, I know it from experience as well as hearing it from Troy. As far as her playing with a full band before she ever pursued solo acoustic, it is a fact. To the best of my knowledge, she is in town for an extended time right now. I hear she and Troy really really love Vietnamese because they have been spotted ritualistically hanging at this one great place up the way. The next time I get a craving I might swing by. If any of you do happen to run into her somewhere, please just be supportive. Instead of saying "I hate the record and I am disappointed with the whole band thing" just say, "I love you solo acoustic the best" and leave it at that. Inspire people you love, don't discourage them. I also don't want people to give the impression to the outside media that her fans hate this record, because believe me they will write about it that way. And that doesn't do much for her press pack. For those people who have never heard of Patty, let their first impression be an original impression, and not be based on how some of her fans were angry and disappointed with it. That will make them not want to buy the record. And that will hurt Patty. Media trend and "buzz" is based entirely on the momentum of word-of-mouth from the public. So please do your part as a fan to make that buzz about FR be very positive. At the very least, remember that even a bad pop song by Patty is better than a good song by any of the plastic, shallow noisemakers on pop radio. We know she's the real deal. Love from Austin, Mimi Alidor;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 15:21:40 EDT From: Mooodeee@aol.com Subject: Re: MM: RE: Sellout John... VERY good reply to the commercial debate. Add to that stipulations in contracts with record labels for commercial exposure and promotions, and you have the entire picture of both the obligation and necessity of "selling out." I agree with you and personally think the notion of suffocating an artist who is doing the best they can to make a living is both selfish and idiotic. If an artist cant make a living at their music, they wont be able to make their music at all, so we all suffer. If people have to be egocentrically attatched to the notion of "undiscovered musician fads" and the "i heard them first! i love obscure artists!" then they should retire their psychological needs for the fasionable to Eddie Bauer and LL Bean and BMW like the rest of the robotically programmed trend-hungry population. What they dont realize is that musicians dont make as much money as people think they do. They get signed to a label (big or small) and record ONE record, they become upwards of $150,000 in debt instantly. (On a label like A&M, with musicians like Kenny Aronoff who make triple scale, not to mention the production being Nashville's best, add to that cost of high scale radio and press promotion, Flaming Red could easily double that amount and much much more). This debt comes just from making and publicizing the CD. That doesnt even account for everything else, such as touring. The purpose of touring after the release of a CD on the most part is centered around the promotion of the CD, and exposure and visibility of the artist to new listeners. Each gig they play out of town can have a tremendous overhead as well. You have to pay musicians, travel expenses, hotel accomodations for everyone on the road with the tour, advertisement in both press and radio, high management fees and booking percentages, and much more. I wont even mention "payola" that you encounter along the way. By the time it all trickles down to the artist, there is only a bite of the pie left. This is where the need for commercial success comes in. Even if it means doing *commercials*. With love from Austin, Mimi Alidor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 14:30:52 -0500 From: Mark Cicero Subject: FW: Re[2]: MM: Re: give her some space -Reply -Reply Robert writes: Just because a person wants to share their talent and their work with the public, that does not mean they want their private lives *scrutinized* by the public. Mark replies: They may not want it but it happens, it unfortunately goes with the territory. Robert also states: To stretch a point: you put your opinion in a post to the list (the "public") and I am responding critically to that "work". You should (and more than likely did) expect a response of some kind. No problem. Now, send me a picture of your girlfriend so I can critique her. One has nothing to do with the other, and the latter is clearly none of my business. Mark replies: Bad anology! I am not putting any of my self up for sale. I am flattered that you would think of one of my posts as a piece of "work". I think of it mostly as mental masterbation. I have no control over what you may or may not read into my posts and you have every right to respond accordingly. As for a picture of my girl friend well you are making assumptions aren't you?? However if I was famous and you saw me on occasion walking arm and arm with a woman you would be within your rights to inquire even if it was to satisfy your own curiosity. I am also flattered that I moved you emtionally, even if it was towards "crankiness". ;-) Lighten up. I feel better already. Regards, Mark Nashville,TN ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 16:29:51 -0500 From: mgillis@meditech.com Subject: [none] Mimi wrote: John... VERY good reply to the commercial debate. Add to that stipulations in contracts with record labels for commercial exposure and promotions, and you have the entire picture of both the obligation and necessity of "selling out." Isn't anyone else out there afraid of where this TREND is heading? I've got nothing against someone wanting to put food on their table, and I'm not accusing anybody of "selling out". But allowing commercial interests to dominate an art industry sounds a lot like another entertainment medium: prime-time television. On the rare occasions I watch prime-time, I feel nothing but mass manipulation - buttering me up to buy this product or live that kind of lifestyle. Its not difficult for me to see this happening to the music industry. It has already has to a large extent. But if such commercialism is what every artist is going up against, it won't be long before we start questioning their very artistic motives. What would you think if you heard Poor Man's House was originally concieved as an ad for aluminum siding? "Well, the corporation just bought up this construction contract, and they told me if I came up with a tune to sell the stuff, they'd give me a shot". - -Matt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 15:51:38 -0500 From: matt vogensen Subject: MM: Matt's coments I see what you are saying, but I disagree. When I lived in Dallas I was almost oppresed by local radio. Every station played a certain rotation fo music (usualy more than five to ten years old) for a cetain demographic to sell to a certain kind of advertising. This age, this personality, this lifestyle. It was awful, and then I moved to Austin I found out what good music was. Stations here play what they consider to be the best music available, it is realy a great improvement to the life of everybody who listens. My point is that there are markets out there for tallented artists, and I honestly think that market is growing, last year a new station started up in dallas that tried for what my favorite Austin stations do, Play geart music and people will listen. It worked, at least for a while. the point here is that a tendecy of people to listen to music that can actually be called ART is on the rise I think, and that makes this a great time for music. That's just my take Grey ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V2 #169 *********************************