From: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org (mad-mission-digest) To: mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Subject: mad-mission-digest V2 #107 Reply-To: mad-mission@smoe.org Sender: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-mad-mission-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk * If you wish to unsubscribe, send an email to * mad-mission-digest-request@smoe.org * with ONLY the word unsubscribe in the body of the email * . * For the latest information on Patty's tour dates, go to: * http://www.spectra.net/~ducksoup/pattyg/patttour.htm * OR * go to http://www.amrecords.com/road/index.html * and fill in the blanks :) * . * PLEASE :) when you reply to this digest to send a post TO the list, * change the subject to reflect what your post is about. A subject * of Re: mad-mission-digest V2 #xxx or the like gives readers no clue * as to what your message is about. mad-mission-digest Saturday, April 25 1998 Volume 02 : Number 107 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: MM: Flaming Red [CornflkGl ] MM: yep ["Mike Gorecki" ] MM: Re:Flaming Flaming Red [hakmusic@juno.com (Harry A Keates)] Re: MM: Flaming Red [hooligan ] Re: MM: Yes, it's different. :) [hooligan ] MM: There IS a God... ["LB" ] Re: MM: Flaming Red on World Cafe [Mike Acerbo ] Re: Re: MM: Yes, it's different. :) [CornflkGl ] Re: MM: yep [David Lewis ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:36:55 EDT From: CornflkGl Subject: Re: MM: Flaming Red OK, just a little reminder to the people who are posting and bashing Tony, and/or the new album- I'd like to remind you that SOME of us have to wait for the actual album to come out. Some of us have heard little or none of the new album. SOME of us ( although not me, thank God ) have heard nothing of Patty's other than LWG. Some of us believe that Patty will follow her heart, and if she believes it's a good enough style to put on an album, then it's good. Some of us trust her instincts. Some of us welcome a stylistic change ! So far all I've heard of the new album is Flaming Red. Yes, when it first started, my mouth dropped open and I can definitely say the song kicked my ass. I also have to say I have huge respect for Patty for making such a big move, and I'm looking forward to buying it and seeing what other suprises she has in store for me. I'm glad that this next album isn't going to be predictable :). I'd also like to point out the inherent goodness in saying "In my opinion, --- sucks" rather than just saying " --- sucks". Rachel :D ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:47:31 -0700 From: "Mike Gorecki" Subject: MM: yep well...let me see...didn't Bob Dylan encounter the same sense of artistic challenge in the 60s? Living with Ghosts will forever be the defining emotional\artistic work that may ever come in my life. but remember...do we really want to keep things so constant they never grow beyond our own needs...Nah... patty is for everyone and Flaming red will procure her yet another piece of the forever changing music....Remember...Living with Ghosts..it is indeed a perfect thing... Saw Patty in Ann Arbor....it still makes me cry when I remember... Mike Mike goreckime@cbpu.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:27:46 -0400 From: hakmusic@juno.com (Harry A Keates) Subject: MM: Re:Flaming Flaming Red Hi everyone, I can't comment on Flaming Red because I haven't heard it yet, but this is getting to be a very familiar theme. Lets see how many times I've heard this in the past year: Dar Williams, Shawn Colvin, Paula Cole, Carol Noonan, the Indigo Girls, Marc Cohn, Iris Dement and a few more. Basicly the most recent new album from everyone I was listening to was more of an orchastrated or rocking album than their earlier work, and older fans were alienated. The only time I haven't heard this, it seems, is with Sarah McLachlan, where people complained that it was too much the same as her earlier work. I think for whatever reason, whether for commercial success or a need to try something different, or whatever, there is a trend of puttin out more orchastrated albums. I think the solo artists putting out a band album, in of itself, is not a bad thing, the question is whether or not it is a good band album that shows a musical growth, or not. Iris Dement, for example, I think strengthened her music by adding the band, and I don't think Shawn Colvin lost anything with her new sound (though I know some will disagree with this). Others, I think have headed in a lesser direction. Joe mentioned the reaction to Dar's new album, the reaction to which I won't detail, as many of us are from the Dar list and have heard it too much, but let me just add that some of us, me for one, who were looking forward to a band album from Dar, were still disappointed with the results. For whatever reason, and there were a number of different ones, many of us who are still big Dar supporters, still don't like the new album. I think reaction on the Dar list may be misleading because a lot of the earlier listmembers have dropped off or stopped writing and a lot of the new posters were introduced to Dar through the new album. I think the Dar supporters who didn't like the new album so much have stayed Dar supporters though, for the most part anyway. It sounds like the Patty situation might be more like the Paula Cole situation. Paula had a stark, personal release that was really demos, that many of us loved. She had a small but very passionate following much like Patty. Then she had her breakout album, and we all know the rest of the story. I, for one, don't reall think of myself as a Paula Cole supporter anymore because I really don't like the new album, but I still listen to Harbinger a lot. I don't know what will happen with Patty's new album. I hope to really like it. I don't mind her being a rocker, as I think she has the strength to do it well. But if it is the production choices, or the orchatration, of the album that make me dislike it, as it was with Dar's album, than I will be disappointed. Anyway, this is just a ramble so I'll stop now. Regardless of the production of the album, many of the new songs still sound great live, so for me, that's ok, because I spend more time listening to live tapes than studio CD's anyway. : ) - - Harry _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:19:42 -0700 (PDT) From: hooligan Subject: Re: MM: Flaming Red yeah yeah "Foxy Lady" and NOT "Purple Haze". wh00ps! ;) On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Chris Kornmann wrote: > together much and are probably studio musicians. On certain tracks, they > are way too loud, in particluar, "Wiggly Little Fingers", which starts out > with the same rift as Jimi Hendrix's "Foxy Lady" and the loud guitars > continue to blare over her voice throughout the entire song. It's ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:17:17 -0700 (PDT) From: hooligan Subject: Re: MM: Yes, it's different. :) hello out there. Tony is also my favorite track on Flaming Red; I like the 'crackle-y' feel to it - it's almost as if it's being listened to on my old record player. That and it's kinda hip-hoppy - so I get a big kick out of it. and, well, it's the song that stayed with me right away (Christina did as well...). Yes, these songs are definitely a departure from LwG and from her solo acoustic live performances - but how could they not be? The one immediate similarity I noticed between Lwg and FR is that it takes a few listens to each disc in its entirety - and then you're hooked. I don't think Scott's frame of reference is so far off BTW - I was completely caught off-guard by the 'Purple Haze' intro to Wiggley Fingers. It cracked me up the first time I heard it. oh yeah and I STILL hafta say that I'm EXTREMEMLY disappointed that there is no We Are Water on the new release. Does anyone know whether We Are Water is at all thematically related to Goodbye?? see ya at Mercury Lounge. be swell, mj. On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Kerry Bernard wrote: > I, to, am actually lucky enough to have heard all of Flaming Red (truth be > told, I'm listening to it right now!) and I have to say, the word > "different" is almost an understatement. I was pretty disappointed at > first (for those who've heard the album, tell me your jaw didn't DROP when > the opening riffs of "Flaming Red" came bellowing out?!) but it's really > growing on me and Tony is, in fact, my favourite track on the album (right > now, anyway). It's classic Patty- moving lyrics (verge of tears every time > I hear it), driving guitar, and sheer emotional intensity. The arrangement > is different, yes; there's more backing instrumentation, yes; but my gawd > it's an incredible song. > > At any rate, I can only echo Joe's comments that everyone try to be > courteous and respectful of other people's opinions. Let's not make this a > big flame-fest (contrary to the name of the album ;) where everyone just > leaps on each other saying, "You're wrong! I'm right!" It got reeeeally > tedious on the Dar-list and I hope it doesn't get that way over here, too. > Bickering doesn't do anyone any good. > > Kerry :) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Kerry Bernard "If I'd come a long way, > Young/Hunter Management you wouldn't be calling me baby." > yhkerry@shore.net - My rooomate's t-shirt > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 20:17:57 -0400 From: "LB" Subject: MM: There IS a God... I just learned that Patty will be at Top Cat's in Cincinnati on May 10! Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus... Wooooooo-hoooooooo! Can't wait. LB ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 20:55:37 -0700 From: Mike Acerbo Subject: Re: MM: Flaming Red on World Cafe Hey Mad Mishers, Scott, I'm so glad you wrote what you wrote. While I like everyone else admire Patty for making an artistic change, "Flaming Red," is definiteley a big dissapointment. The beauty of Patty's voice, lyrics and guitar playing is completely lost in a mish mosh of very bland electric guitar and keyboard playing. I don't want to compare it to Ghosts because that wouldn't be fair. But having heard Patty perform many of the new tunes live, I couldn't help but notice how the "Red" versions fall short of the magic that is Patty. "Christina" and "Goodbye" are two perfect examples of how "Red" falls short. "Christina" could be on any one of Cindy Laupers 1980's albums with that cheesy drum machine, and the boring music backing up "Goodbye" does nothing but quilt the emotion of the song so that you can't quite get the feel. It's a good album that could have been fantastic had it not been so overproduced. Even during the album's most beautiful song, "Mary" I find myself pining for the lone sound of her voice and guitar. The keyboards just seem to be playing chords to fill in the gaps of her vocal. When I saw her sing this live I was spellbound, when I heard it on disc my reaction was, "Oh, that's a good song" and that seems to be the difference. I do like "One Big Love," and "Tony," (though still better live), but again like the rest of the album, the music is just not memorable. I would have preferred a more balanced sounding album with atleast a couple of acoustic tunes. I will say that I still absolutely love Patty and think she is one of the best songwriters out there... I'll be at Mercury also, see you guys there....Mike Scott Strickland wrote: > Folks: > > Though I've been on this list for a couple of months this is the first time > I've posted. I regret that I must speak a heresy, but so it goes. > David Dey played "Toni" from _Flaming Red_ on WXPN's "World Cafe," a > syndicated eclectic show done at the University of Pennsylvania and broadcast > through Public Radio International. Since he announced that he would at the > first of the show, I didn't move an inch. I couldn't have been more > disappointed. I'm not a folk purist by any stretch of the imagination, and I > do love my rock 'n roll; what is more, I've been around long enough to know > all the great singer songwriters in the first wave when they weren't oldies > and goldies. My aesthetic judgment of Patty couldn't be stronger. I > honestly believe _Living With Ghosts_ is one of the most powerful recordings > I've ever heard, and Patty is more than affirmation of it in performance. > But "Toni" sucks in a big, big way. It's overproduced--there are at least > three things going on in addition to her singing and playing at any one time, > and they don't blend; more importantly, she's just another screaming singer > whose lyrics don't mean s--- to a tree, to quote Grace Slick. I've heard the > song in performance and it's beautiful. And the final coupe de "degras" is > that the band sounds like a reprise of Grand Funk Railroad at the best and > maybe even Iron Butterfly. I'd almost rather sit through another set of the > guy Patty was traveling with a couple of months ago than hear a whole record > like "Toni." Sorry to be so harsh, but that's how I feel. I'm not asking > her to be something she doesn't want to be, but where is the feeling and > artistry of _Living With Ghosts_? Oh well, give me your best shot. > > Scott ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 22:26:12 EDT From: CornflkGl Subject: Re: Re: MM: Yes, it's different. :) In a message dated 4/24/98 5:25:56 PM, emjay@netcom.comwrote: <> I went to one Patty show where she said Goodbye was written in remembereance of someone who died. The most recent Patty concert I went to ( at the Somerville theatre ) , Oatty said We are Water was written for her best friend ( who happened to be in attendance in the show :) ). So as far as I can tell, they're not connected... Rachel :D ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 22:45:28 -0400 From: David Lewis Subject: Re: MM: yep >well...let me see...didn't Bob Dylan encounter the same sense of artistic >challenge in the 60s? Living with Ghosts will forever be the defining >emotional\artistic work that may ever come in my life. but remember...do we >really want to keep things so constant they never grow beyond our own >needs...Nah... You know, unless I'm mistaken, an interesting point which has not been made is that although we all love Living With Ghosts, I don't believe Patty is so crazy about it. I get the feeling that to her, it's just a bunch of demos. It's just the stuff she always does... solo voice and guitar. I don't think it was the album she wanted to make. Not at all. Anytime I've heard her talk about it (interviews etc.) she says stuff like, "well it's ok. I like the fact that it represented exactly what I do" etc etc. Not exactly a ringing endorsement. Of course, she alsu strikes me as an exeptionally humber person as well so I don't think she would be the type to rave about her own work :) I think she has always wanted to make an album with a band. LWG was originally done with a band right? But everyone decided it sucked. That was the on.y reason they decided to go back to the demos (and thank god they did... LWG is a masterpeice IMO!). Anyway, just thought I would throw that out there :) Dave - ---------------------------------------- Graphic Design - Multimedia - Web Design email: dlewis@accesscable.net web: http://mypage.accesscable.net/~dlewis ------------------------------ End of mad-mission-digest V2 #107 *********************************