From: owner-lucy-list-digest@smoe.org (lucy-list-digest) To: lucy-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: lucy-list-digest V4 #201 Reply-To: lucy-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-lucy-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-lucy-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk lucy-list-digest Monday, September 2 2002 Volume 04 : Number 201 In this issue: [lucy-list] guess I lied [lucy-list] ...or, perhaps, lay [lucy-list] slight clarification [lucy-list] I nominate Benay.... [lucy-list] Babble for Benay and ? [lucy-list] on reviews and personalities ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 07:17:06 -0700 From: "Benay Bubar" Subject: [lucy-list] guess I lied Gosh, thanks, Sarah...that warmed my heart! Congratulations on having seen Dar for the first time...that's a major milestone. And if you're seeing Lucy December 6th and 7th, you must be in Oregon. At last, someone from the West Coast who admits plans to go to a Lucy show! (Besides Peter in Sebastopol...who gets major credit for TRYING.) Of course, now that you've made the admission, Sarah, you're on deck for reviews come December...that will be the midst of a Lucy drought for us easterners, so reviews would be especially welcome. Of course, you don't need to be reviewing Lucy shows for me to be glad you're here on the list...I already am...but keep it in mind when the time comes. And I hope your computer is fully well soon. OK, now the answer to the question no doubt foremost in all of your minds...oh, no, how come she's back already? She's supposed to be incommunicado! Is she living a life of crime, putting her aunt's computer in danger of explosion? Well, no. Turns out that since I was last here, my UNCLE got separate Internet access that has nothing to do with the Big Important Company. I shouldn't be surprised...my uncle's initials are, after all, WWW. (It gets better---his first name is Wendell. He has been officially my uncle since April. And he is very cool. In fact, I highly recommend that you all get yourselves an Uncle Wendell.) So anyway, here I am. And since I'm here, and since none of you except Sarah yet seem to be paying any mind to my directive on Lucy-list discussions for the weekend (what smart and independent people, unswayed by certain other people's dictatorial tendencies!), I think I have something at least marginally Lucy-related to say...but I will do it in another email, to be responsible about posting limits. Benay ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 07:20:44 -0700 From: "Benay Bubar" Subject: [lucy-list] ...or, perhaps, lay So here's the rest of what I've been thinking, music-wise. I've had a chance to think of things music-wise because of the fact that getting here took a three-hour bus trip, and I can't read on buses without getting sick, so I listen to music. All my Lucy stuff gets dragged with me pretty much always on bus trips, and then I bring some other things too. This trip I happened to listen to Every Single Day as well as to Richard Shindell's Courier (a really good CD if you don't yet have it...and Lucy sings on about half of it). And, being me and hearing both CDs close together, I came to the realization that both Richard and Lucy independently misuse "lay" in present-tense phrases in exactly the same way...Lucy in Written on the Back of His Hand ("lay down on the ground and look up at the sky"), and Richard in A Summer Wind, A Cotton Dress ("when I lay in our bed..."). Before I go further, I should explain---and those who have hung out with me can vouch for this---that I am a Grammar Person. It's not my fault. It's a curse. In the genes. I'm the kind of person who, even when walking with friends and in the midst of conversation, will stop dead on the street upon sight of a store awning that says "Kid's Clothes" and ponder entering the store to inquire as to whether they really sell clothing for only one child, and if so, who that child is. I can't really control it. I should also explain, so as not to intimidate anyone, that there are limits to being a Grammar Person. Informal speech, for instance, is completely exempt from judgement. As is email, except when it's formal and work-related. It's only things that are wrong in publication and/or on public display that invite actual dismay. Music is a little more complex. Grammatical lapses in music can be exempted, but on a case-by-case basis. Obviously, I knew about Lucy's "lay" usage in WOTBOHH from the time I first heard the song...and, WOTBOHH being one of my favorite Lucy songs, this was a serious matter. Luckily, I was able to exempt this "lay" usage of Lucy's pretty quickly, and not SOLELY because (to paraphrase), it doesn't matter what she says, I just like the way she sounds. In fact, a "lie" in that position in WOTBOHH might imbalance the "sky/fly" rhyme in that part of the song...and also, since there's already "a pack of lies" later in the song, another "lie" rep probably wasn't desirable. I can accept that just fine. I couldn't quite figure out how to exempt Richard's identical misuse of "lay" as present tense, though, even though I wanted to. I just couldn't find a reason that usage was necessary...and this bothered me significantly. Until I thought more about the issue and realized that I can't think of ANY singer I like who has a song that uses present-tense "lie" correctly. And then I figured out the answer: Folk Singer Orientation. See, I've got this theory now that aspiring folk singers are brought together each year for a top-secret gathering. It involves camping trips, donkey rides, singing 'round a fire, surfing, and a choir (yes, I've figured out that Dar Williams's description of heaven in Alleluia contains veiled references to Folk Singer Orientation). Also at Folk Singer Orientation, they have seminars on topics such as Two Things at Once: Bantering While Changing a Broken String; Polite Refusal of Requests You Don't Want to Play; and How to Mention That You Have CDs for Sale Without Seeming Demanding. And somewhere in the midst of Folk Singer Orientation, I think they hand out a rule book, the hard-and-fast laws of folk music passed down through the ages from one folk singer to the next. It's top secret, of course, and I haven't gotten hold of one yet...but when I do, I'm convinced that one of the rules will be: "In folk music, when using the verb "to lie" meaning "to recline," the present tense must ALWAYS be "lay." What a relief. What peace, as a Grammar Person, to have come to this conclusion. I need make No More Excuses for Lucy or Richard with regards to "lay." I'm sure they could never breathe a word of it, but in truth they were just following the rules. And I salute them. Benay ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 09:25:29 -0700 From: "Benay Bubar" Subject: [lucy-list] slight clarification As a particularly astute Lucy-lister has pointed out to me, I should not risk misleading people by giving the impression that the word "lay" cannot be used in the present tense. It CAN be present tense, as long as it has an object---i.e., to lay something down. But when you're using the verb in the present tense with the meaning "to recline," and there's no object, then it's "lie" (except by Folk Singer Rules, of course). It all has to do with transitiveness and intransitiveness and things that I'm sure would put 95 percent of the list right to sleep if I got into them any further here. I told you, I can't help it. It's a curse. Benay ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 16:33:55 -0400 From: "Pat Grismore" Subject: [lucy-list] I nominate Benay.... ...as the Official Lucy List Grammarian. It's funny that I first saw the use of this word in a book earlier today. I had not known of its exsistence previously. But if it's in print it must correct! Congrats, Benay. Pat in Cincinnati (who hasn't seen Lucy since March 8( ...) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 22:12:13 EDT From: Pashonfish@aol.com Subject: [lucy-list] Babble for Benay and ? Benay, I start my yearly teaching of humanities to sixth graders Tuesday. How much will you charge to make all the red marks on their papers for me? (as I am unqualified and only allow green or purple pens on my desk due to my own subversive behavior) Benay and friends, I would be happy to review a Lucy show in December, but none of you might recognize it as that since it would be nothing like a Benay review. There is no way I could keep a log of the songs, and list details. I am an INFJ and I can tell you how the concert developed, how it felt in a few choice, perhaps poetic words, but as I said, it would be almost unidentifiable by Lucy listers as a review. I found Lucy through Cliff Eberhardt last year when I was visiting Maine and attended one of the Winter's Night Concerts. I began listening obsessively and was elated when another Winter's Night Concert came to the Oregon Zoo June 27th. I don't like the format of those concerts when that is the only chance one gets in a year to see one's beloved minstrel. 4 singers; one song each; 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, intermission; repeat; encore if you are lucky. Okay, so here is my review of The Zoo, June 27th. Lucy was great, Cliff was great, Cheryl Wheeler was funny as hell, and I especially liked John Gorka's song People My Age (or something like that). This may sound like I am skipping over Lucy and Cliff but gosh what can I say? I said beloved didn't I? Then, the best part. The zoo has a little dance area down front where all the loveliest of Oregon's young innocents were grooving throughout the evening. Lucy was especially taken by the younguns. This is Oregon, and so of course we had to have some moisture to round out our evening. Many, many diehards stayed in spite of the rain, because after all, this was our once a year chance at the beloveds. I moved down amongst the babes and within breathing distance of those on stage. Now maybe they felt sorry for us, but I think it was either 4 or 5 encores... It just got more and more powerful and ended with exquisite harmony. It was obvious that they were all very pleased by the looks on their faces, rightfully so. I was high for days but sad knowing that somehow Oregon doesn't attract the singer songwriters I need for rechargement (now that can't be a word) and a long dry spell was to follow. So, Benay, you may now see why us Westies don't write reviews. Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 21:00:57 -0700 From: "Benay Bubar" Subject: [lucy-list] on reviews and personalities Well, guess what, Sarah? That WAS a review, so there, and it made me very happy! Think I've said this before, but there's more than one way to write a review, and there's no formula. Set lists aren't necessary; extensive details aren't necessary. Just whatever you remember and care to bring to the table. Why? Just because it's fun... and now we who weren't there have a little more ability to imagine how it was on June 27th at the Oregon Zoo than we did before, and that's a nice thing. My reviews are just that...mine...not some standard I'm hoping everyone will aspire to (gosh, I wish I thought I was that worthy of emulation). I'll review Lucy shows however I want to, you review them however works for you (and "review" is a loose term...it's just the best word I can think of), and it will all work out well. When nobody says ANYTHING about a show, it just makes me sad because then we who weren't there really miss the experience entirely. Oh, and I know what INFJ is too...I'm very proud of that...actually, I'm not sure I remember what all the initials stand for, but it's from the Myers-Briggs Personality Inventory, isn't it? I think I'm INFP, though I can't swear to it. Non-psych people, I can't fully explain what this means because I don't remember too well, but as I recall, the Myers-Briggs is this big long personality test (invented by Donna Myers...no, I'm kidding!...that was just to see if you were paying attention, Donna) that rates you on four different scales and then tells you what sort of person you are (out of 16 different types of which everyone supposedly is one). There was some website I found once, purporting to explain it, that compared me in some respects to Gandhi, and that made me pretty happy even though I didn't know that much about Gandhi...still, it seemed like a positive comparison. It made me so happy, in fact, that I think I went around telling people for a little while that I had all this stuff in common with Gandhi. This revelation only tended to puzzle people, though, and it clearly wasn't improving my daily life, so I quit. But I still remember it and think of Gandhi with some warmth even though I don't know very much more about him than I did before. Benay ------------------------------ End of lucy-list-digest V4 #201 ******************************* This has been a posting from the Lucy Kaplansky mail list digest To unsubscribe send mail to Majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe lucy-list-digest" in the body of the message