From: owner-lucy-list-digest@smoe.org (lucy-list-digest) To: lucy-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: lucy-list-digest V1 #46 Reply-To: lucy-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-lucy-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-lucy-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk lucy-list-digest Saturday, April 10 1999 Volume 01 : Number 046 In this issue: [lucy-list] Re: TYN cover art and production [lucy-list] TYN cover art and production [lucy-list] Cover-Schmover [lucy-list] Oops [lucy-list] TYN cover art Re: [lucy-list] Oops [lucy-list] re: independent stores [lucy-list] the way of a song [lucy-list] Ten Year Night Songs [lucy-list] Re: Before you totally flame me....Cover art Re: [lucy-list] the way of a song Re: [lucy-list] Cover-Schmover Re: [lucy-list] the way of a song [lucy-list] semi-off-topic questions [lucy-list] Greg Brown in Westchester Re: [lucy-list] semi-off-topic questions RE: [lucy-list] semi-off-topic questions RE: [lucy-list] semi-off-topic questions [lucy-list] "Turn the Lights..."--therapist? Re: [lucy-list] "Turn the Lights..."--therapist? [lucy-list] The production question [lucy-list] Re: TYN production ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 01:43:29 -0700 From: Tom Negrino Subject: [lucy-list] Re: TYN cover art and production On 4/9/99 12:15 AM, patrick t power said (in regards to TYN's cover art): >As I'm sure both of them would say, it's the *music*, man! And fine music it is, too! If Lucy is offended that I think the cover picture could have been better, I'll let her punch me out when I see her show here in May. I can see the headlines now: "Folk Singer Assaults Concertgoer: "He didn't like my album cover, so I whupped him" says satisfied musician." :-) From a musical standpoint, I was thinking about issues raised on the Shindell list, which currently has an interesting discussion about whether or not the versions on his albums are overproduced. I was thinking about that while listening to TYN tonight, which strikes me as a tad overproduced in spots, especially with the heavy use of the slide guitar. Now, it's my experience that lots of us are so used to hearing our favorite performers live with just a guitar that it can be jarring to hear a whole band playing these songs we've come to know and love. I know that's come up with other performers I like, such as Shawn Colvin. After I saw her live and solo at least half a dozen times, it was sort of weird to see her with a band. But I ended up liking her more with a band than without. Similarly, while I very much enjoyed Mary Chapin Carpenter's acoustic tour last fall (her version of Springsteen's "Dancing in the Dark" was especially cool), I prefer hearing her with the Boys with Poise. So I wonder: what's the "purest" form of a song? The one the artist does live, with just a guitar or piano? Or the version they do on a CD, with full instrumentation? You have to figure that whatever they put on the CD is the "posterity" version, and should therefore be what they want to have people hear as the definitive version. Yet, I think we've all heard songs that just plain work better when stripped down to the bare bones. Is the fact that they're performing most of the time without a backing band more of an economic issue, or an artistic choice? In Lucy's case, I suspect that it's mostly economic, since we've all read her notes expressing how excited she is to be doing the Bottom Line shows with a whole band. And from her comments about the Cry3 tour, it's clear that she enjoys the give-and-take with other musicians. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 07:06:52 -0400 From: patrick t power Subject: [lucy-list] TYN cover art and production About the "Ten Year Night" cover art Tom wrote: <> She slugged me last month when she was here and all I did was to give her a double espresso. "I asked for a triple, damn it!" she said, standing over me. Watch the left hook. He continued with regard to production: <> It's indeed an economic issue. Many venues would not be able to afford her or many performers if they toured with an entourage. Gigs would be fewer and further between if they insisted on touring exclusively with a band. Unless, of course, they reach the level of popularity that Mary-Chapin has reached, and to some extent, Shawn Colvin, who if she doesn't follow up her Grammy success with another big hit, will likely be back to solo (or minimally backed) performances. I think that the production of Lucy's CD is good from beginning to end. The "rock out" production of a couple of the tracks is not overdone (as I believe "Down By The Water" is on CryCryCry) which makes them that much easier for her to perform solo and remain fairly true to the CD. And thinking back on her first two CDs, I think that she has consistently had tastefully produced CDs. *Love* that steel guitar! Pat ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 08:03:23 -0400 From: votels Subject: [lucy-list] Cover-Schmover Patrick Power is right. With apologies to President Clinton's 1992 campaign: It's the music, stupid. The cover is art and you can't argue with art. It might not appeal to you, but that is a whole 'nother thing. It is a valid expression of the artist, regardless of whether the viewer "likes it" or thinks "it is pretty." Plus, this is secondary commercial graphic art that is supposed to be distinctive and stimulate sales of its primary product, the CD. I'd say it is working. Plus, Harvey likes it. *smile* Me, too. Recently in concert, Lucy has been telling a neat little story about the cover picture and her mother's reaction -- primarily to the Armani sweater (and here we go again on this thread.) Of course I can't tell it the way Lucy did, but briefly, it goes like this. Mrs. Kaplansky: Oh Lucy, you should have worn something low cut and sleeveless. Lucy: But mom, it was 40 degrees outside and raining, I would have died! Mrs. Kaplansky: Yes, but couldn't you have suffered? About album covers: For one thing, they are a lot less interesting (and smaller) with the passing of vinyl and a whole lot less useful. Former (and maybe current) Deadheads will get my drift here. *smile* And one of the greatest albums of all time, The Beatles' "White Album," which also was one of the greatest sellers of all time, not only had no art, but it didn't have a title. The original just had the band's name embossed on it. For the CD they did the name in faint gray so you'd know what it is. Let's concentrate on the music, shall we? - -- Jay Votel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:15:32 EDT From: RockinRonD@aol.com Subject: [lucy-list] Oops Yes, of course it is the Harvery School, not Gilbert. I don't know what I was thinking. Thank you Robin. Scuse me. Must be early senility. Ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 10:10:36 -0400 From: "L. Davis" Subject: [lucy-list] TYN cover art I would agree that for us, it is about the music. I know several other Lucy fans, however, myself included, who were a bit surprised by the cover picture. Certainly this is not a reflection on the artist or the exceptional quality of the music within. This is really just taking issue with the commercial decision of her label. If one is looking specifically for Lucy's album, obviously, the cover art is not an issue. For someone who does NOT know her music already, however, cover art may determine what albums get purchased and what albums remain on the rack. Certainly there have been albums with unattractive or non-existant cover art that have been successful, but many of those were by well-established artists with broad commercial appeal. Lucy is not the Beatles, at least, not yet. Given Lucy's extraordinary songwriting and performing abilities, many have speculated whether or not she will move up to that next level of more mainstream commercial success, like Shawn or Mary Chapin Carpenter or the like. I believe that a cover that reflected the music and the artist within more accurately would have done her a greater service. Hey, look, even her mom was surprised by the photo, I don't think it is exactly an insult to the performer to say she looks a lot better than that. Lynden Davis ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:17:37 -0400 From: Rachel_Ladutke@aporter.com Subject: Re: [lucy-list] Oops That's OK, Rick. Love, RACHEL 8o) RockinRonD@aol.com on 04/09/99 09:15:32 AM Please respond to lucy-list@smoe.org To: lucy-list@smoe.org cc: Subject: [lucy-list] Oops Yes, of course it is the Harvery School, not Gilbert. I don't know what I was thinking. Thank you Robin. Scuse me. Must be early senility. Ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 06:26:42 -0800 From: "Kelly" Subject: [lucy-list] re: independent stores Tom Neff wrote: >As a consumer, it is not my job to turn my face away from a fascinating Internet resource, in the process discovering fewer authors and performers, just so I can render unending charity to some snotty little full-retail boutique that's going to close or move as soon as they raise the rent anyway. - --- I think Tom hit the nail on the head here, as he so often does. I know there are many up-and-coming artists that I've searched the racks at my local indie music stores for, and been unable to find. On the other hand, online stores always (well, usually) seem to have the obscure recording I am looking for. Also, they often have sound clips available so that if I've heard of a performer but don't know what they sound like, I can try 'em out and see if they sound like something I'd like. Maybe it's just my opinion, but it seems like this would be a god-send for an up-and-coming performer...the more exposure the better. Kelly :) - --- kelly.gerace@eudoramail.com *************************** "Oh I have some ways to go. How can I grow without just growing old?" - --Dar Williams, "How Do I Work" Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:31:20 -0600 From: "Don LaVange" Subject: [lucy-list] the way of a song I think each version of a song has a chance to see if it scratches the itch. The itch being the need to hear that song, and to carry it with you through your life as a song with meaning, or effect. I'm not sure if a song like "Just You Tonight" could be done justice with a big production. There is something there, in the haunting way she talks to her lover, the simple honesty that I love most about Lucy's music. "it's not the bourbon you've been drinking That burns like autumn leaves against my skin" J.K "Just You Tonight" She is nearly whispering this beautiful love song, and while the bass is enhancing, I want to hear this live. If she shows up with a big band, I suspect she would do this one while the band takes a break! On the other hand, the rocker "A Child's Hands" is just the piece for a kick-ass band... These guys gave me nostalgia for the old Crazy Horse ... maybe it was the bluesy feel of the song. I love songs. I admire songwriters. Few other mediums of expression stay with me and become as much mine as they do. "I'll keep them here with mine" L.K. "Promise Me" This song, works with the simple backup guitar, but would be great all accoustic too. I say, the song, and what you want to do with it, begs for a treatment. Lucys' artful writing is combined with her tasteful interpretation of the songs she has created. Another time, another place, another person and they might want to be done another way. Remember what Gram Parson did for "Love Hurts"? don Don LaVange dlavange@neticus.com http://www.neticus.com/users/dlavange/ - ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Negrino To: Sent: Friday, April 09, 1999 2:43 AM Subject: [lucy-list] Re: TYN cover art and production > So I wonder: what's the "purest" form of a song? The one the artist does > live, with just a guitar or piano? Or the version they do on a CD, with > full instrumentation? You have to figure that whatever they put on the CD > is the "posterity" version, and should therefore be what they want to > have people hear as the definitive version. Yet, I think we've all heard > songs that just plain work better when stripped down to the bare bones. > Is the fact that they're performing most of the time without a backing > band more of an economic issue, or an artistic choice? In Lucy's case, I > suspect that it's mostly economic, since we've all read her notes > expressing how excited she is to be doing the Bottom Line shows with a > whole band. And from her comments about the Cry3 tour, it's clear that > she enjoys the give-and-take with other musicians. > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:44:11 -0600 From: "Don LaVange" Subject: [lucy-list] Ten Year Night Songs I just purchased ten year night, and am already in love with several of the songs. Thanks Lucy. These songs are great. The last time Lucy performed in Salt Lake City at the University of Utah she débuted a song that was untitled. I have a sneaking suspicion that song is one of the beautiful love songs on TYN. I realise that we are not Lucites, nor Lucy-Heads, but, I would love to get the set list from that show or at least the name of the then untitled song she performed. The song knocked me for a loop. Last night as I listened to Ten Year Night in my study I was sure it was "Just You Tonight" but it might have been "Promise Me". Hell, it could have been TYN itself. don Don LaVange dlavange@neticus.com http://www.neticus.com/users/dlavange/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:59:12 -0400 (EDT) From: eric Subject: [lucy-list] Re: Before you totally flame me....Cover art Harvey (or was it Gilbert?), in a refreshingly well-organized argument, wrote: >While I totally understand the counterpoint to this argument (If we all >just...), I am incapable of saving the individually owned record store from >the steamroller coming down the pike. i agree. and actually, with one or two exceptions, the only individually owned record stores i can think of seem to be those that feature "artists" with either one name, a phonetic aberration (e.g., Defunkt,) or both. and oh, yes, a great talent for programming a drum machine. >--If Music Blvd. (and Amazon.com) features Lucy and Ten Year Night and helps >her (and Red House) to more widely distribute albums and to help her to reach >a broader audience, isn't that an effort I should totally support? absolutely. >I could go on, but my real point is that there really are two sides to the >issue. indeed. my original post was in response to yours which stated that Music Blvd was out of stock and that TYN was on backorder. i merely suggested ordering it from Redhouse as an alternative to having to wait until it came back in stock. personally, i can't stand the thought of having to wait when it comes to new music... given a choice, i *prefer* to buy cds direct from the label (in the case of non-mainstream musicians) or at the shows. it's preference, not dogma. i also buy cds from Tower Records, HMV, etc., etc. i'm not all that crazy about Starbuck's either, but that's another issue for another day - - eric. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:21:05 EDT From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: Re: [lucy-list] the way of a song << Remember what Gram Parson did for "Love Hurts"? >> Two words: Oh baby. But . . . I've also heard Richard and Lucy do this song together (I have it on a tape here somewhere) and if any duo can conjure up the spirit of Gram and Emmylou, it's them. I've also heard them do "Sin City" and "Hickory Wind" (and of course, Lucy recorded "Return of the Grievous Angel" with John Gorka on "Flesh and Bone"), so I'll once again put in a request for my dream CD: Richard and Lucy doing a remake of Gram's classic album "Grievous Angel." Can you just *imagine* them doing "$1000 Wedding," "Brass Buttons," "In My Hour of Darkness" and the rest? Two words: Oh baby. RG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 12:31:48 -0400 From: Howie Lyhte Subject: Re: [lucy-list] Cover-Schmover Jay wrote: > About album covers: For one thing, they are a lot less interesting (and > smaller) with the passing of vinyl and a whole lot less useful. Former > (and maybe current) Deadheads will get my drift here. *smile* In the days of vinyl, every album had about 144 square inches to fill as creatively (or uncreatively) as "they" wanted on the front cover. Notwithstanding the more practical uses alluded to above, album covers either just identified the artist or were purely artistic, or were comic, or made a statement, or were just "different" or any combination of the above. Lots of choices for lots of room. CD boxes/covers have about 25 square inches, about a sixth the area of albums. There's just not a lot of room to work with. Just shrinking down an album cover to CD size risks losing the detail of the art and readability of the text. Album covers seemed more of a warm medium, while CD covers seem to be just cold identifiers. Seems like "cover art" has joined the ranks of "art history". > Let's concentrate on the music, shall we? Uhh, OK. - -- Howie Lyhte howie@lucent.com ________________________________________________________________________ \|/ ____ \|/ ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ Don't panic! \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:18:48 -0600 From: "Don LaVange" Subject: Re: [lucy-list] the way of a song Ohhh Baby! Don - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, April 09, 1999 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [lucy-list] the way of a song > << Remember what Gram Parson did for "Love Hurts"? >> > > Two words: Oh baby. > > But . . . I've also heard Richard and Lucy do this song together (I have it > on a tape here somewhere) and if any duo can conjure up the spirit of Gram > and Emmylou, it's them. I've also heard them do "Sin City" and "Hickory > Wind" (and of course, Lucy recorded "Return of the Grievous Angel" with John > Gorka on "Flesh and Bone"), so I'll once again put in a request for my dream > CD: Richard and Lucy doing a remake of Gram's classic album "Grievous Angel." > > Can you just *imagine* them doing "$1000 Wedding," "Brass Buttons," "In My > Hour of Darkness" and the rest? Two words: Oh baby. > > RG > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:11:19 -0400 (EDT) From: witch baby Subject: [lucy-list] semi-off-topic questions Question One: Shawn Colvin's _Fat City_ song "Polaroids" -- I don't have the lyric sheet, so: "Forests in Germany" and *WHAT* "in the Tulleries"? Ketz? Kids? Cats? Question Two: Is Roseanne Cash related to Johnny Cash? Question Three: Let's plan meeting either before or at the Bottom Line show! Jessica - -------------------------------jns4470@is.nyu.edu---------------------------- "There are always more than two choices. Always. Always. Always." --Pat Califia - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:46:41 -0400 (EDT) From: witch baby Subject: [lucy-list] Greg Brown in Westchester Hi guys, Is anyone from New York driving up? I'd love to go. Could contribute gas, car conversation, amusement, etc. I love Greg Brown. Jessica - -------------------------------jns4470@is.nyu.edu---------------------------- "There are always more than two choices. Always. Always. Always." --Pat Califia - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 19:27:07 -0400 From: "Steve Garrison" Subject: Re: [lucy-list] semi-off-topic questions Daughter. Check out Roseanne's book of short stories/essays, "Bodies of Water." And, as always, "10 Song Demo," a John Leventhal-produced minor Masterpiece. - ---------- >From: witch baby > Question Two: Is Roseanne Cash related to Johnny Cash? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:04:35 -0700 From: "Robert C. Phelps" Subject: RE: [lucy-list] semi-off-topic questions Rosanne Cash is Johnny Cash's daughter. Hence the song "My Old Man" on her wonderful 1985 disc "Rhythm and Romance." > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lucy-list@smoe.org [mailto:owner-lucy-list@smoe.org]On > Behalf Of witch baby > Sent: Friday, April 09, 1999 3:11 PM > To: lucy-list@smoe.org > Cc: Robin Ogilvie > Subject: [lucy-list] semi-off-topic questions > > > Question One: Shawn Colvin's _Fat City_ song "Polaroids" -- I don't have > the lyric sheet, so: "Forests in Germany" and *WHAT* "in the Tulleries"? > Ketz? Kids? Cats? > > Question Two: Is Roseanne Cash related to Johnny Cash? > > Question Three: Let's plan meeting either before or at the Bottom Line > show! > > Jessica > > -------------------------------jns4470@is.nyu.edu----------------- > ----------- > "There are always more than two choices. Always. > Always. Always." --Pat Califia > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ----------- > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:02:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Car41@webtv.net Subject: RE: [lucy-list] semi-off-topic questions OK,"Rhythm and Romance", _Bodies of Water_, and "10 Song Demo" have all been mentioned. I must throw in one of my all time faves, another John Leventhal-produced minor masterpiece, 1993's "The Wheel". Rosanne is, clearly, way past due for another minor masterpiece. And, Witch Baby Jessica: The line is: "Kids in the Tuileries" –Richard Hill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:51:53 -0700 From: "Robert C. Phelps" Subject: [lucy-list] "Turn the Lights..."--therapist? I'm really curious about the story behind "Turn the Lights Back On." Has anyone heard Lucy explain it? The venom level in the main character's voice is extraordinary. I first thought it was a failed (romantic) relationship story; after repeated listening, I sort of assume that she's singing about a failed patient-therapist relationship (lyrics about "new age tears," "phony pearls of wisdom" and "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing," among others, come to mind, as does the whole last verse, e.g., "I trusted you, you said I was supposed to."). Given Lucy's professional background, I wonder if this is a story from her past from the patient's perspective. Or perhaps it's autobiographical. Or maybe it's just a made-up story. Great song. She does a great job singing the pissed off part. - ------------------------------------ Bob Phelps rcphelps@pacbell.net - ------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 22:18:54 -0500 From: "Bill Wynn" Subject: Re: [lucy-list] "Turn the Lights..."--therapist? Lucy says it's about her ex-therapist. >I'm really curious about the story behind "Turn the Lights Back On." Has >anyone heard Lucy explain it? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 20:41:54 -0700 From: "Robert C. Phelps" Subject: [lucy-list] The production question Tom asked: >So I wonder: what's the "purest" form of a song? The one the artist does >live, with just a guitar or piano? Or the version they do on a CD, with >full instrumentation? You have to figure that whatever they put on the CD >is the "posterity" version, and should therefore be what they want to >have people hear as the definitive version. Yet, I think we've all heard >songs that just plain work better when stripped down to the bare bones. I've always wondered the same thing. IMHO, the answer is that there is no "definitive" version of a song. The recorded rendition is simply one version while the live rendition is another. For me, one nice thing about hearing a good song live is to see how it gets changed/stretched/expanded in the live interpretation. Having said that, I think Lucy's songs are generally well-served by the full band arrangements. They sometimes sound a bit too thin (spare?) to me with just Lucy and her guitar. That's not to say the live shows are bad (they're wonderful, in fact). It's just that I like the fleshed-out versions of the songs a bit better. I used to think the same thing about Nanci Griffith's songs 10-12 years ago when she usually toured my part of the country (Northern Calif.) solo. Case in point: "Promise Me" is easily my favorite song on TYN, even though I've long thought that the "music-complains-about-life-on-the-road" genre's pretty well played out. Anyway, I like the arrangement on TYN, and think the unique guitar sounds add a lot to it. In contrast, I've got a tape of Lucy singing the song solo (guitar only), and that version just doesn't quite "do it" for me as much as the recorded version. Still a great song, however. - ------------------------------------ Bob Phelps rcphelps@pacbell.net - ------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 00:29:09 -0400 From: patrick t power Subject: [lucy-list] Re: TYN production Tom Negrino wondered: <> The "purest" form of the song is the one that the artist hears in his or her head. Getting that onto a CD, however, is the challenge. Pat ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ End of lucy-list-digest V1 #46 ****************************** This has been a posting from the Lucy Kaplansky mail list digest To unsubscribe send mail to Majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe lucy-list-digest" in the body of the message