From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V8 #98 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Wednesday, June 17 2009 Volume 08 : Number 098 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] Great year for twee synthpop [Dave Walker ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:40:43 -0400 From: Dave Walker Subject: [loud-fans] Great year for twee synthpop Just a few months after Seeland's debut monopolized my ears for weeks, I got around to picking up Au Revoir Simone's third album, _Still Night, Still Light_, which seems (on first listen) to be their best yet. There's probably some long essay waiting to be written about this stuff being a sort of musical comfort food for troubled times, but I'm not going to write it today. -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:46:10 -0700 (PDT) From: robert toren Subject: [loud-fans] unremarkable warble ramble I've been trying to remember how I felt about Scott's voice over the years. I always enjoyed his songs and performances, and don't remember his vocals ever being an impediment to that enjoyment; his vocals were just another component of his very enjoyable, emotional and powerful musical output. And not knowing a thing about music myself - early on and least - if the music was exciting and I could dance to it, that was all that mattered. Hell, we're in this notoriously boring college cow town, yet Michael Quercio and Mitch Easter were producing his records, GT was touring and getting tons of college radio play. There was an apparent steady stream of successes: house parties > clubs > EPs > albums > celebrity producers (what a *thrill* to have Quercio in town! Damn!) > national tours > interviews > mentions and reviews in Rolling Stone and Cream > Lolita Nation #5 on Rolling Stone college radio chart... It was only when Game Theory's success seemed to stall, and I was looking for excuses as to "Why haven't we MADE IT yet??" - then I focused on, among other things, his thin singing voice as a potential impediment to commercial success. The Scott-fan's lament: "Couldn't he sing in a lower register?" But Game Theory had already overcome so many obstacles - mainly Scott's uncompromisingly complex, challenging songs - Lolita Nation was damn challenging, yet people dug it! That was amazing and thrilling to me! - so who knew what was possible? Scott's uncompromising artistic vision was one of the reasons people were willing to join in and support him unwaveringly. Anyway - just personally, put me in the "always have, and still do, enjoy his voice" column. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:24:12 EDT From: Markwstaples@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Great year for twee synthpop In a message dated 6/16/2009 9:47:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, dwalker@freeke.org writes: I got around to picking up Au Revoir Simone's third album I gave that a listen when I was up at the station last week--it was in the ARC Overnight play stack. Very enjoyable. Of all the discs I listened to that afternoon, the three that grabbed me were The Bicyles' OH NO! IT'S LOVE, BRAKES BRAKES BRAKES and the Au Revoir Simone record. - --Mark **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823265x1201398681/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:35:54 -1000 From: "R. Kevin Doyle" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] unremarkable warble ramble I've heard the "high register" argument before, but if you take a look at the top 40 from the period when Game Theory had the highest chance to break (let's say 97-89), you'll note a rather lot of tenors (or hair metal singers shrieking in a throat rending falsetto). I'll single out Peter Cetera as a prime example of this phenomenon (and, for fun, imagine him singing "The Real Sheila"). Granted, Scott's voice is not as strong as Cetera's (though I'd rather be devoured by voles than have to listen to "Glory of Love" ever again - or, really any of Cetera's solo work), but my point is that I don't know that Scott would have been winning any new fans by singing in a lower key. There were too many factors working against Game Theory in the 80's. They didn't sound like anything on the Top 40 charts; in terms of the college charts, they didn't sound enough like Minnesota punk; and then there were those brilliant, intelligent, difficult to decypher lyrics. Furthermore, I'm not sure Enigma ever really figured out how to market them. The fact that all of us on this list ever discovered them is, perhaps, a function of the fact that most everyone on this list seems to actively seek out interesting and challenging music. Anyhow, I've often pondered what would have had to change about Game Theory's music to make them a viable hit producing unit in the late 80's. I have several theories. 1) Make sure all keyboard sequences sounded like Level 42. 2) Significantly dumb down the lyrics. For example: "I was feeling the weight of the atmosphere And those I know aren't looking overjoyed I'm here Daughters about fourteen order wine And Chardonnay shows what she knows when she decides Couldn't tell you now what clicked inside Or why that's what I call her Hardly floored but still reminded That I once could want it all" Change to: "Man, it was such a heavy day And I was drinking whiskey with some young girls I call one of them Southen Comfort Because she won't put out for me" BAM! HIT SINGLE BY ENIGMA LABEL-MATE POISON! Also, its ironic because her name is "comfort" and yet, she won't put out, so its not entirely devoid of wordplay. I also imagine a version of "One More For St. Michael" where all the Star Trek references have been replaced with Wookie noises. 3) Male/Female call and response vocals more like Roxette or Animotion. 4) Replace at least one stringed instrument with a keytar. Those were pretty popular in '87-'89. 5) Once he moved to drums, require Gil to wear nothing but tight shorts with an American flag pattern. 6) More Novelty songs - For example, "Rolling With Moody Girls" could easily become "Rolling With The Egyptians." "In a Delorean" could become 'In a Sarcophogus." It worked for The Bangles. I guess what I'm saying is that I think that the only way Game Theory was going to have a chance at having hits in the late 80's would be if they changed everything that I like about them and turned into another band. To paraphrase Brian Wilson, they just weren't made for those times. R. On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 5:46 AM, robert toren wrote: > I've been trying to remember how I felt about Scott's voice over the > years. I always enjoyed his songs and performances, and don't remember his > vocals ever being an impediment to that enjoyment; his vocals were just > another component of his very enjoyable, emotional and powerful musical > output. And not knowing a thing about music myself - early on and least - if > the music was exciting and I could dance to it, that was all that mattered. > > Hell, we're in this notoriously boring college cow town, yet Michael > Quercio and Mitch Easter were producing his records, GT was touring and > getting tons of college radio play. There was an apparent steady stream of > successes: house parties > clubs > EPs > albums > celebrity producers (what > a *thrill* to have Quercio in town! Damn!) > national tours > interviews > > mentions and reviews in Rolling Stone and Cream > Lolita Nation #5 on > Rolling Stone college radio chart... > > It was only when Game Theory's success seemed to stall, and I was looking > for excuses as to "Why haven't we MADE IT yet??" - then I focused on, among > other things, his thin singing voice as a potential impediment to commercial > success. The Scott-fan's lament: "Couldn't he sing in a lower register?" But > Game Theory had already overcome so many obstacles - mainly Scott's > uncompromisingly complex, challenging songs - Lolita Nation was damn > challenging, yet people dug it! That was amazing and thrilling to me! - so > who knew what was possible? Scott's uncompromising artistic vision was one > of the reasons people were willing to join in and support him unwaveringly. > > Anyway - just personally, put me in the "always have, and still do, enjoy > his voice" column. > > Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:59:50 -0400 From: "Stuart Bell" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] unremarkable warble ramble I agree TOTALLY! (Except the boring cow town part) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-loud-fans@smoe.org [mailto:owner-loud-fans@smoe.org] On Behalf Of robert toren Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 11:46 AM To: loud-fans@smoe.org Subject: [loud-fans] unremarkable warble ramble I've been trying to remember how I felt about Scott's voice over the years. I always enjoyed his songs and performances, and don't remember his vocals ever being an impediment to that enjoyment; his vocals were just another component of his very enjoyable, emotional and powerful musical output. And not knowing a thing about music myself - early on and least - if the music was exciting and I could dance to it, that was all that mattered. Hell, we're in this notoriously boring college cow town, yet Michael Quercio and Mitch Easter were producing his records, GT was touring and getting tons of college radio play. There was an apparent steady stream of successes: house parties > clubs > EPs > albums > celebrity producers (what a *thrill* to have Quercio in town! Damn!) > national tours > interviews > mentions and reviews in Rolling Stone and Cream > Lolita Nation #5 on Rolling Stone college radio chart... It was only when Game Theory's success seemed to stall, and I was looking for excuses as to "Why haven't we MADE IT yet??" - then I focused on, among other things, his thin singing voice as a potential impediment to commercial success. The Scott-fan's lament: "Couldn't he sing in a lower register?" But Game Theory had already overcome so many obstacles - mainly Scott's uncompromisingly complex, challenging songs - Lolita Nation was damn challenging, yet people dug it! That was amazing and thrilling to me! - - so who knew what was possible? Scott's uncompromising artistic vision was one of the reasons people were willing to join in and support him unwaveringly. Anyway - just personally, put me in the "always have, and still do, enjoy his voice" column. Robert No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.70/2177 - Release Date: 06/16/09 07:41:00 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:18:58 -0700 From: Tom Marcinko Subject: Re: [loud-fans] unremarkable warble ramble I love the alternative lyrics! Also, what R. Kevin said above. I remember hearing Al Kooper on Fresh Air complaining to Terri Gross about how he was replaced in Blood, Sweat & Tears by David Clayton Thomas. Terri said she thought David had a great voice but she's never believed a word he sung. Al said, yeah, well, I never said I was the greatest singer, but I always meant every word. Sincerity's gotta count for something. Also, I was smiling because I can imagine Richard Thompson being told, mate, you have such a deep, dark, voice ... can't you lighten it up a bit? And the lyrics, too? (Oh, well, at least he can make a living, and it's only taken since 1968 for his audience to grow to its current mass.) Linda Thompson, meanwhile, is trying to go the Jill Sobule route and is asking fans to help fund her next album. And nobody ever said SHE is not a good singer: http://www.thehectorfund.com/about/linda-thompson/ On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 12:35 PM, R. Kevin Doyle wrote: > I've heard the "high register" argument before, but if you take a look at > the top 40 from the period when Game Theory had the highest chance to break > (let's say 97-89), you'll note a rather lot of tenors (or hair metal > singers > shrieking in a throat rending falsetto). I'll single out Peter Cetera as a > prime example of this phenomenon (and, for fun, imagine him singing "The > Real Sheila"). > > Granted, Scott's voice is not as strong as Cetera's (though I'd rather be > devoured by voles than have to listen to "Glory of Love" ever again - or, > really any of Cetera's solo work), but my point is that I don't know that > Scott would have been winning any new fans by singing in a lower key. > > There were too many factors working against Game Theory in the 80's. They > didn't sound like anything on the Top 40 charts; in terms of the college > charts, they didn't sound enough like Minnesota punk; and then there were > those brilliant, intelligent, difficult to decypher lyrics. Furthermore, > I'm not sure Enigma ever really figured out how to market them. The fact > that all of us on this list ever discovered them is, perhaps, a function of > the fact that most everyone on this list seems to actively seek out > interesting and challenging music. > > Anyhow, I've often pondered what would have had to change about Game > Theory's music to make them a viable hit producing unit in the late 80's. > I > have several theories. > > 1) Make sure all keyboard sequences sounded like Level 42. > > 2) Significantly dumb down the lyrics. For example: > > "I was feeling the weight of the atmosphere > And those I know aren't looking overjoyed I'm here > Daughters about fourteen order wine > And Chardonnay shows what she knows when she decides > Couldn't tell you now what clicked inside > Or why that's what I call her > Hardly floored but still reminded > That I once could want it all" > > Change to: > > "Man, it was such a heavy day > And I was drinking whiskey with some young girls > I call one of them Southen Comfort > Because she won't put out for me" > > BAM! HIT SINGLE BY ENIGMA LABEL-MATE POISON! > > Also, its ironic because her name is "comfort" and yet, she won't put out, > so its not entirely devoid of wordplay. I also imagine a version of "One > More For St. Michael" where all the Star Trek references have been replaced > with Wookie noises. > > 3) Male/Female call and response vocals more like Roxette or Animotion. > > 4) Replace at least one stringed instrument with a keytar. Those were > pretty popular in '87-'89. > > 5) Once he moved to drums, require Gil to wear nothing but tight shorts > with an American flag pattern. > > 6) More Novelty songs - For example, "Rolling With Moody Girls" could > easily become "Rolling With The Egyptians." "In a Delorean" could become > 'In a Sarcophogus." It worked for The Bangles. > > I guess what I'm saying is that I think that the only way Game Theory was > going to have a chance at having hits in the late 80's would be if they > changed everything that I like about them and turned into another band. To > paraphrase Brian Wilson, they just weren't made for those times. > > R. > > > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 5:46 AM, robert toren >wrote: > > > I've been trying to remember how I felt about Scott's voice over the > > years. I always enjoyed his songs and performances, and don't remember > his > > vocals ever being an impediment to that enjoyment; his vocals were just > > another component of his very enjoyable, emotional and powerful musical > > output. And not knowing a thing about music myself - early on and least - > if > > the music was exciting and I could dance to it, that was all that > mattered. > > > > Hell, we're in this notoriously boring college cow town, yet Michael > > Quercio and Mitch Easter were producing his records, GT was touring and > > getting tons of college radio play. There was an apparent steady stream > of > > successes: house parties > clubs > EPs > albums > celebrity producers > (what > > a *thrill* to have Quercio in town! Damn!) > national tours > interviews > > > > mentions and reviews in Rolling Stone and Cream > Lolita Nation #5 on > > Rolling Stone college radio chart... > > > > It was only when Game Theory's success seemed to stall, and I was > looking > > for excuses as to "Why haven't we MADE IT yet??" - then I focused on, > among > > other things, his thin singing voice as a potential impediment to > commercial > > success. The Scott-fan's lament: "Couldn't he sing in a lower register?" > But > > Game Theory had already overcome so many obstacles - mainly Scott's > > uncompromisingly complex, challenging songs - Lolita Nation was damn > > challenging, yet people dug it! That was amazing and thrilling to me! - > so > > who knew what was possible? Scott's uncompromising artistic vision was > one > > of the reasons people were willing to join in and support him > unwaveringly. > > > > Anyway - just personally, put me in the "always have, and still do, > enjoy > > his voice" column. > > > > Robert > - -- http://tomaq.livejournal.com/ http://twitter.com/TomMarcinko http://www.new.facebook.com/tom.marcinko http://blip.fm/the_night_manager http://clarionwest.org/events/writeathon/2009 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:44:32 EDT From: Markwstaples@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] if anyone is stirring... The show I recorded the other day is running on WNCW.org tonight from 12-4 am est. My brother told me I was seriously behind the times--said that The Bicycles were on every h.s. kid's iPod in SoCal. I told him I don't have an iPod and I'm not a h.s. kid in SoCal. I'm a middle aged man in South Carolina. Cheers, - --Mark **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823265x1201398681/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:13:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: [loud-fans] unremarkable warble ramble Fabulous post! You know...GT was just so...opposite of what was going on back then. After Donny and Gui joined, the band took on a strange persona. We played loudly, looked like glam rockers, featured prominent keyboards, partied pretty hard and of course there was the very baroque music. The other bands of the day that I liked such as The Reivers, Guadalcanal Diary, Fetchin' Bones, Dumptruck, True West etc...were all more natural looking and the music was a bit more...earthy. They all surely sold more records than GT did, but Scott really was uncompromising with his music and vision (weird and dark slide-shows etc..). It was like nothing else being done at the time, really (except maybe the Three O'Clock). I admire that, but I also was aware that that was probably the thing that prevented us from getting any bigger. Gil - --- On Tue, 6/16/09, R. Kevin Doyle wrote: > From: R. Kevin Doyle > Subject: Re: [loud-fans] unremarkable warble ramble > To: loud-fans@smoe.org > Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 12:35 PM > I've heard the "high register" > argument before, but if you take a look at > the top 40 from the period when Game Theory had the highest > chance to break > (let's say 97-89), you'll note a rather lot of tenors (or > hair metal singers > shrieking in a throat rending falsetto). I'll single > out Peter Cetera as a > prime example of this phenomenon (and, for fun, imagine him > singing "The > Real Sheila"). > > Granted, Scott's voice is not as strong as Cetera's (though > I'd rather be > devoured by voles than have to listen to "Glory of Love" > ever again - or, > really any of Cetera's solo work), but my point is that I > don't know that > Scott would have been winning any new fans by singing in a > lower key. > > There were too many factors working against Game Theory in > the 80's. They > didn't sound like anything on the Top 40 charts; in terms > of the college > charts, they didn't sound enough like Minnesota punk; and > then there were > those brilliant, intelligent, difficult to decypher > lyrics. Furthermore, > I'm not sure Enigma ever really figured out how to market > them. The fact > that all of us on this list ever discovered them is, > perhaps, a function of > the fact that most everyone on this list seems to actively > seek out > interesting and challenging music. > > Anyhow, I've often pondered what would have had to change > about Game > Theory's music to make them a viable hit producing unit in > the late 80's. I > have several theories. > > 1) Make sure all keyboard sequences sounded like > Level 42. > > 2) Significantly dumb down the lyrics. For > example: > > "I was feeling the weight of the atmosphere > And those I know aren't looking overjoyed I'm here > Daughters about fourteen order wine > And Chardonnay shows what she knows when she decides > Couldn't tell you now what clicked inside > Or why that's what I call her > Hardly floored but still reminded > That I once could want it all" > > Change to: > > "Man, it was such a heavy day > And I was drinking whiskey with some young girls > I call one of them Southen Comfort > Because she won't put out for me" > > BAM! HIT SINGLE BY ENIGMA LABEL-MATE POISON! > > Also, its ironic because her name is "comfort" and yet, she > won't put out, > so its not entirely devoid of wordplay. I also > imagine a version of "One > More For St. Michael" where all the Star Trek references > have been replaced > with Wookie noises. > > 3) Male/Female call and response vocals more like > Roxette or Animotion. > > 4) Replace at least one stringed instrument with a > keytar. Those were > pretty popular in '87-'89. > > 5) Once he moved to drums, require Gil to wear > nothing but tight shorts > with an American flag pattern. > > 6) More Novelty songs - For example, "Rolling With > Moody Girls" could > easily become "Rolling With The Egyptians." "In a > Delorean" could become > 'In a Sarcophogus." It worked for The Bangles. > > I guess what I'm saying is that I think that the only way > Game Theory was > going to have a chance at having hits in the late 80's > would be if they > changed everything that I like about them and turned into > another band. To > paraphrase Brian Wilson, they just weren't made for those > times. > > R. > > > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 5:46 AM, robert toren wrote: > > > I've been trying to remember how I felt about > Scott's voice over the > > years. I always enjoyed his songs and performances, > and don't remember his > > vocals ever being an impediment to that enjoyment; his > vocals were just > > another component of his very enjoyable, emotional and > powerful musical > > output. And not knowing a thing about music myself - > early on and least - if > > the music was exciting and I could dance to it, that > was all that mattered. > > > > Hell, we're in this notoriously boring college > cow town, yet Michael > > Quercio and Mitch Easter were producing his records, > GT was touring and > > getting tons of college radio play. There was an > apparent steady stream of > > successes: house parties > clubs > EPs > > albums > celebrity producers (what > > a *thrill* to have Quercio in town! Damn!) > > national tours > interviews > > > mentions and reviews in Rolling Stone and Cream > > Lolita Nation #5 on > > Rolling Stone college radio chart... > > > > It was only when Game Theory's success seemed to > stall, and I was looking > > for excuses as to "Why haven't we MADE IT yet??" - > then I focused on, among > > other things, his thin singing voice as a potential > impediment to commercial > > success. The Scott-fan's lament: "Couldn't he sing in > a lower register?" But > > Game Theory had already overcome so many obstacles - > mainly Scott's > > uncompromisingly complex, challenging songs - Lolita > Nation was damn > > challenging, yet people dug it! That was amazing and > thrilling to me! - so > > who knew what was possible? Scott's uncompromising > artistic vision was one > > of the reasons people were willing to join in and > support him unwaveringly. > > > > Anyway - just personally, put me in the "always > have, and still do, enjoy > > his voice" column. > > > > Robert ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V8 #98 ******************************