From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V8 #93 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Friday, June 12 2009 Volume 08 : Number 093 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory in Kilby/Church bio [robert toren ] Re: BEHIND the MUUUUSIC Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory in Kilby/Church bio [Roger Winston Subject: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory in Kilby/Church bio No Certainty Attached: Steve Kilbey and The Church. A biography by Robert Dean Lurie Here's some pertinent passages for loudfans (my only quibble is that the gig Donnette missed was a post-NY gig in Williamsburg, VA - GT got 5 encores that night): "Steve's isolation was short-lived. Donnette Thayer, the young musician Steve had first met during the Remote Luxury tour, was now playing guitar and singing backup in a semi-successful San Francisco band called Game Theory, who were signed to Enigma-the same label that had released Unearthed in the United States. When she learned that Steve was in Los Angeles, she arranged to meet him during one of her frequent visits to the area. Steve took a passing interest in Game Theory and began attending some of their shows. He concluded, as did some others, that Donnette was woefully underused in the band. She had a stunning, angelic voice but was most often relegated to backing vocals, playing second fiddle to boyfriend Scott Miller's unremarkable warble. (Former Game Theory bassist Guillaume Gassuan wrote on his web site: "Scott's great talent was as a songwriter. Had he given the vocal reins away, the music would have been much more accessible and the band might have really broken out.") Miller wrote smart, hook-driven songs-in-deed, Game Theory had already built up a following long before Donnette joined the band - but every time she opened her mouth to sing, the difference between her vocal abilities and Miller's was thrown into sharp relief. "During my first visit," Donnette has written, Steve and I talked a lot about fame and money. I unashamedly advocated seeking both. Steve said that he was a purist and was only in it for the creative fulfillment that music provides. We debated the stardom point hotly; Steve insisted that it was unimportant how much acclaim or riches are garnered in the process of creating great art. After many such conversations, Steve wrote me a postcard saying that he hoped that I would be a star, or at least a starfish. Thereafter, during that period of time, when I wrote to him, I would sign my name as Starfish. Steve continued to catch concerts by Game Theory whenever he was in the same town as Donnette's band. He found, to his chagrin, that his growing fame in America made anonymity at these shows increasingly difficult. At one performance in Washington D.C., Steve's very presence elicited more excitement from the crowd than did the band onstage, despite the fact that for most of the show Steve was asleep at the bar, oblivious to the hoopla surrounding him. Because of her relationship with Steve, Donnette found herself also living in two worlds whenever he was with her. While her bandmates drove from show to show in an older van and slept on friends' couches and floors, Donnette traveled with Steve in rented cars and stayed with him in fancy hotels. This exacerbated the tension that already existed between her and band leader Scott Miller in the wake of their dissolved relationship. "I'll never forget the one night [my bandmates] dropped us off, still trying to be groovy," Donnette wrote: bThere was this long corridor of perfectly white globe lights for what seemed like a mile along the entrance. Someone said, "Do you think they'll have showers ... where we're going to stay?" Someone answered, "No, there's a tub that doubles for a kitchen table, that's all." I felt tremendously guilty, but not after I found my amp later with all the tubes mysteriously smashed.b As if tensions weren't already running high enough between Donnette and her bandmates, Steve unwittingly drove the final nail into Game Theory's coffin when he got Donnette lost on the way to the band's New York City gig. Her angry bandmates went ahead with their show, with a cardboard cutout standing in for their absent guitarist. Game Theory folded for good shortly thereafter. Years later, when asked by Thomas Durkin why the band had ended, Scott Miller said, "Donnette and me breaking up and Enigma Records [going into bankruptcy] were big factors." Recalling the end of the band, bassist Guillaume Guissan describes Donnette as "exponentially self-involved," while allowing that was pretty much par for the course in rock and roll. "In retrospect," he says on his web page, "it's a shame that she didn't part with the band on better terms. The first tour was great and the last was very fun when she wasn't around. She was very enthusiastic at first, but as real success stayed just beyond our grasp she lost interest." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:58:21 -0700 From: Tom Marcinko Subject: BEHIND the MUUUUSIC Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory in Kilby/Church bio Scott (knowing him personally as well as I do, from all the years I spent rummaging through his trash) would probably, self-deprecatingly, consider "unremarkable warble" a compliment. I really wanted to like the Hex album more than I did. Donnette is a good singer, for sure, but the album just didn't say much to me. FWIW. On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 9:03 AM, robert toren wrote: > No Certainty Attached: Steve Kilbey and The Church. > A biography by Robert Dean Lurie > > Here's some pertinent passages for loudfans (my only quibble is that the > gig Donnette missed was a post-NY gig in Williamsburg, VA - GT got 5 encores > that night): > > "Steve's isolation was short-lived. Donnette Thayer, the young musician > Steve had first met during the Remote Luxury tour, was now playing guitar > and singing backup in a semi-successful San Francisco band called Game > Theory, who were signed to Enigma-the same label that had released Unearthed > in the United States. When she learned that Steve was in Los Angeles, she > arranged to meet him during one of her frequent visits to the area. > > Steve took a passing interest in Game Theory and began attending some of > their shows. He concluded, as did some others, that Donnette was woefully > underused in the band. She had a stunning, angelic voice but was most often > relegated to backing vocals, playing second fiddle to boyfriend Scott > Miller's unremarkable warble. > > (Former Game Theory bassist Guillaume Gassuan wrote on his web site: > "Scott's great talent was as a songwriter. Had he given the vocal reins > away, the music would have been much more accessible and the band might have > really broken out.") > > Miller wrote smart, hook-driven songs-in-deed, Game Theory had already > built up a following long before Donnette joined the band - but every time > she opened her mouth to sing, the difference between her vocal abilities and > Miller's was thrown into sharp relief. > > "During my first visit," Donnette has written, Steve and I talked a lot > about fame and money. I unashamedly advocated seeking both. Steve said that > he was a purist and was only in it for the creative fulfillment that music > provides. We debated the stardom point hotly; Steve insisted that it was > unimportant how much acclaim or riches are garnered in the process of > creating great art. After many such conversations, Steve wrote me a postcard > saying that he hoped that I would be a star, or at least a starfish. > Thereafter, during that period of time, when I wrote to him, I would sign my > name as Starfish. > > Steve continued to catch concerts by Game Theory whenever he was in the > same town as Donnette's band. He found, to his chagrin, that his growing > fame in America made anonymity at these shows increasingly difficult. At one > performance in Washington D.C., Steve's very presence elicited more > excitement from the crowd than did the band onstage, despite the fact that > for most of the show Steve was asleep at the bar, oblivious to the hoopla > surrounding him. > > Because of her relationship with Steve, Donnette found herself also living > in two worlds whenever he was with her. While her bandmates drove from show > to show in an older van and slept on friends' couches and floors, Donnette > traveled with Steve in rented cars and stayed with him in fancy hotels. This > exacerbated the tension that already existed between her and band leader > Scott Miller in the wake of their dissolved relationship. > "I'll never forget the one night [my bandmates] dropped us off, still > trying to be groovy," Donnette wrote: > > b There was this long corridor of perfectly white globe lights for what > seemed like a mile along the entrance. Someone said, "Do you think they'll > have showers ... where we're going to stay?" Someone answered, "No, there's > a tub that doubles for a kitchen table, that's all." I felt tremendously > guilty, but not after I found my amp later with all the tubes mysteriously > smashed.b > > As if tensions weren't already running high enough between Donnette and her > bandmates, Steve unwittingly drove the final nail into Game Theory's coffin > when he got Donnette lost on the way to the band's New York City gig. Her > angry bandmates went ahead with their show, with a cardboard cutout standing > in for their absent guitarist. Game Theory folded for good shortly > thereafter. > > Years later, when asked by Thomas Durkin why the band had ended, Scott > Miller said, "Donnette and me breaking up and Enigma Records [going into > bankruptcy] were big factors." Recalling the end of the band, bassist > Guillaume Guissan describes Donnette as "exponentially self-involved," while > allowing that was pretty much par for the course in rock and roll. "In > retrospect," he says on his web page, "it's a shame that she didn't part > with the band on better terms. The first tour was great and the last was > very fun when she wasn't around. She was very enthusiastic at first, but as > real success stayed just beyond our grasp she lost interest." > - -- http://tomaq.livejournal.com/ http://twitter.com/TomMarcinko ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:03:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: BEHIND the MUUUUSIC Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory in Kilby/Church bio > Scott (knowing him personally as well as I do, from all the years I spent > rummaging through his trash) would probably, self-deprecatingly, consider > "unremarkable warble" a compliment. That's not so bad in itself, but what bothers me about this writer is his solipsism in projecting onto Kilbey and onto the world at large his own attitude toward Game Theory, which is dominated by the fact that the backup singer has a better voice than the lead. Most writers knowledgeable about 80s pop would have acknowledged Game Theory's cult stature (even if they didn't care about the band) instead of just using them as a supporting player in the drama he is manufacturing, with Donnette transcending her base musical origins by allying herself with the hero of the story. - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:05:15 -0700 From: Andrew Hamlin Subject: Re: BEHIND the MUUUUSIC Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory in Kilby/Church bio > That's not so bad in itself, but what bothers me about this writer is his > solipsism in projecting onto Kilbey and onto the world at large his own > attitude toward Game Theory, which is dominated by the fact that the backup > singer has a better voice than the lead. Most writers knowledgeable about > 80s pop would have acknowledged Game Theory's cult stature (even if they > didn't care about the band) instead of just using them as a supporting > player in the drama he is manufacturing, with Donnette transcending her base > musical origins by allying herself with the hero of the story. - Dan Ah, but history is written by the winners, Dan. Dammit. And frankly, I don't think this narrative tells us much about Donnette that we didn't already know. Money really *does* change everything (even if we're still looking for that 45), Andy "You're penniless. I like to eat at expensive restaurants, what am I gonna do with you?" - --the kiss-off from an old girlfriend as she dumped me for my best friend, whom she had previously sworn she would "never date" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:10:32 -1000 From: "R. Kevin Doyle" Subject: Re: BEHIND the MUUUUSIC Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory in Kilby/Church bio Sometimes, I feel like I'm the only one in the world who actually genuinely likes Scott's singing. Donnette perhaps has a stronger technical voice, but Scott's voice (and performances) was better suited to the intellectual and emotional content of his songs. Dare I compare him to Bob Dylan in this regard? I dare! I dare! On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Andrew Hamlin wrote: > > That's not so bad in itself, but what bothers me about this writer is his > > solipsism in projecting onto Kilbey and onto the world at large his own > > attitude toward Game Theory, which is dominated by the fact that the > backup > > singer has a better voice than the lead. Most writers knowledgeable > about > > 80s pop would have acknowledged Game Theory's cult stature (even if they > > didn't care about the band) instead of just using them as a supporting > > player in the drama he is manufacturing, with Donnette transcending her > base > > musical origins by allying herself with the hero of the story. - Dan > > Ah, but history is written by the winners, Dan. Dammit. > > And frankly, I don't think this narrative tells us much about Donnette > that we didn't already know. > > Money really *does* change everything (even if we're still looking for that > 45), > > Andy > > > "You're penniless. I like to eat at expensive restaurants, what am I > gonna do with you?" > > --the kiss-off from an old girlfriend as she dumped me for my best > friend, whom she had previously sworn she would "never date" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:28:59 -0700 From: "Brian Block" Subject: [loud-fans] Re: BEHIND the MUUUUSIC >Sometimes, I feel like I'm the only one in the world who actually genuinely >likes Scott's singing. Donnette perhaps has a stronger technical voice, but >Scott's voice (and performances) was better suited to the intellectual and >emotional content of his songs.> I think that's a fairly comfortable opinion on this list. For me it depends what you mean by "Scott's singing". Up through Big Shot Chronicles, his singing is a major obstacle to me liking GT music; for the last two GT albums he's not a problem; by the time he formed Loud Family, I actively like his singing. By Days for Days, I think he'd become as great a singer as anyone around. Practice counts for a lot: how much emotional resonance is being conveyed against a backdrop of how many technical limits.

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http://www.Care2.com Green Living, Human Rights and more - 8 million members! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:41:19 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: BEHIND the MUUUUSIC Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory in Kilby/Church bio On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 3:10 PM, R. Kevin Doyle wrote: > Sometimes, I feel like I'm the only one in the world who actually genuinely > likes Scott's singing. Donnette perhaps has a stronger technical voice, > but > Scott's voice (and performances) was better suited to the intellectual and > emotional content of his songs. > > Dare I compare him to Bob Dylan in this regard? I dare! I dare! Exactly - if Donnette were in Dylan's band, would the critics insist that she sing lead instead of him? I like Scott's voice and always have from the first time I heard it. Since when is unique a bad thing? It's not like he's missing the notes. I'm pretty sure Scott looks better in a short skirt and legwarmers too. Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:47:58 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: BEHIND the MUUUUSIC Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory in Kilby/Church bio R. Kevin Doyle wrote: > Sometimes, I feel like I'm the only one in the world who actually genuinely > likes Scott's singing. You definitely are not! And I would not change a thing about Scott's voice, singing, or approach to vocals. I think Scott is a wonderful vocalist and I was not only extremely surprised to read it criticized, but I just plain have to wonder why. I mean, WTF? His voice is perfect for his songs and the arrangements. I would rather listen to him than Donnette any day. I mean, she's good, but I don't think she's that all-fired wonderful compared to Scott. > Dare I compare him to Bob Dylan in this regard? I dare! I dare! > Yikes! I would say that does Scott a disservice. LOL! I always hated Dylan's voice, always thought he was a terrible singer, and that most of his songs were better left to someone else to sing. Dylan's voice makes me cringe (but it's good fodder for joke impressions). Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:06:09 -0400 From: "Stewart Mason" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory in Kilby/Church bio "Stunning, angelic voice"? Donnette Thayer? Huh. S ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:30:50 -0400 From: Michael Bowen Subject: Re: BEHIND the MUUUUSIC Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory in Kilby/Church bio On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 5:10 PM, R. Kevin Doyle wrote: > Sometimes, I feel like I'm the only one in the world who actually genuinely > likes Scott's singing. Donnette perhaps has a stronger technical voice, but > Scott's voice (and performances) was better suited to the intellectual and > emotional content of his songs. I totally agree. I also think that Scott has improved greatly as a vocalist, and in particular that the LF recordings are much better sung than the GT material. MB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:36:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory in Kilby/Church bio Thanks for posting this, Robert! > Steve took a passing interest in Game Theory and began > attending some of their shows. He concluded, as did some > others, that Donnette was woefully underused in the band. > She had a stunning, angelic voice but was most often > relegated to backing vocals, playing second fiddle to > boyfriend Scott Miller's unremarkable warble. Mammoth Gardens. > (Former Game Theory bassist Guillaume Gassuan wrote on his > web site: "Scott's great talent was as a songwriter. Had he > given the vocal reins away, the music would have been much > more accessible and the band might have really broken > out.") I can agree somewhat with this - I've heard the same complaint from elsewhere. I find it interesting the writer took stuff from Gui's website. Good thing I've never written about this. Yet. > Miller wrote smart, hook-driven songs-in-deed, Game Theory > had already built up a following long before Donnette joined > the band - but every time she opened her mouth to sing, the > difference between her vocal abilities and Miller's was > thrown into sharp relief. Maybe studio-wise. Definitely NOT live. > "During my first visit," Donnette has written, Steve and I > talked a lot about fame and money. I unashamedly advocated > seeking both. Certainly cannot argue with that. > Steve continued to catch concerts by Game Theory whenever > he was in the same town as Donnette's band. Curious about this. Shows other than that tour? > He found, to his chagrin, that his growing fame in America made >anonymity at > these shows increasingly difficult. At one performance in > Washington D.C., Steve's very presence elicited more > excitement from the crowd than did the band onstage, despite > the fact that for most of the show Steve was asleep at the > bar, oblivious to the hoopla surrounding him. Wonder if he woke up early enough to scrawl "Scott Miller - Don't entertain me once" (sic?) on the back window of our van that night? > Because of her relationship with Steve, Donnette found > herself also living in two worlds whenever he was with her. > While her bandmates drove from show to show in an older van > and slept on friends' couches and floors, Donnette traveled > with Steve in rented cars and stayed with him in fancy > hotels. This exacerbated the tension that already existed > between her and band leader Scott Miller in the wake of > their dissolved relationship. The tension that night came to a head when in no uncertain terms, I told Scott and Donnette what I thought of the situation. > "I'll never forget the one night [my bandmates] dropped us > off, still trying to be groovy," Donnette wrote: WTF? > I felt > tremendously guilty, but not after I found my amp later with > all the tubes mysteriously smashed. This is true. > Her angry > bandmates went ahead with their show, with a cardboard > cutout standing in for their absent guitarist. I do not remember anger being the #1 emotion that evening. It was immense satisfaction that we could continue on without her. > Game Theory > folded for good shortly thereafter. But not because of that tour, or Kilby, or Donnette. > Recalling the end of the band, bassist Guillaume Guissan > describes Donnette as "exponentially self-involved," while > allowing that was pretty much par for the course in rock and > roll. "In retrospect," he says on his web page, "it's a > shame that she didn't part with the band on better terms. > The first tour was great and the last was very fun when she > wasn't around. She was very enthusiastic at first, but as > real success stayed just beyond our grasp she lost > interest." Can't argue with a word of this. Gil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 23:06:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory in Kilby/Church bio >> I felt tremendously guilty, but not after I found my amp later with all >> the tubes mysteriously smashed. > > This is true. We won't tell Donnette, Gil: who did for that amp? - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:17:36 -0700 From: Tom Marcinko Subject: Re: BEHIND the MUUUUSIC Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory in Kilby/Church bio Dylan crossed my mind too. Neil Young, Ray Davies, Bruce Springsteen -- they just don't sing "right." They might be acquired tastes, though I do think Scott is technically better than any of the ones I just mentioned. He sings with so much nuance that I wonder how his songs would sound recorded by other artists. I suspect that most versions would be unsatisfying, like most Beatles covers are unsatisfying in one way or another. (Yet Dylan seems to lend himself to so many wonderful covers.) It's a mystery. To me, anyway. On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 2:10 PM, R. Kevin Doyle wrote: > Sometimes, I feel like I'm the only one in the world who actually genuinely > likes Scott's singing. Donnette perhaps has a stronger technical voice, > but > Scott's voice (and performances) was better suited to the intellectual and > emotional content of his songs. > > Dare I compare him to Bob Dylan in this regard? I dare! I dare! > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Andrew Hamlin >wrote: > > > > That's not so bad in itself, but what bothers me about this writer is > his > > > solipsism in projecting onto Kilbey and onto the world at large his own > > > attitude toward Game Theory, which is dominated by the fact that the > > backup > > > singer has a better voice than the lead. Most writers knowledgeable > > about > > > 80s pop would have acknowledged Game Theory's cult stature (even if > they > > > didn't care about the band) instead of just using them as a supporting > > > player in the drama he is manufacturing, with Donnette transcending her > > base > > > musical origins by allying herself with the hero of the story. - Dan > > > > Ah, but history is written by the winners, Dan. Dammit. > > > > And frankly, I don't think this narrative tells us much about Donnette > > that we didn't already know. > > > > Money really *does* change everything (even if we're still looking for > that > > 45), > > > > Andy > > > > > > "You're penniless. I like to eat at expensive restaurants, what am I > > gonna do with you?" > > > > --the kiss-off from an old girlfriend as she dumped me for my best > > friend, whom she had previously sworn she would "never date" > - -- http://tomaq.livejournal.com/ http://twitter.com/TomMarcinko ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:23:34 -0700 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory in Kilby/Church bio On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 7:36 PM, Gil Ray wrote: > Thanks for posting this, Robert! > > > Steve took a passing interest in Game Theory and began > > attending some of their shows. He concluded, as did some > > others, that Donnette was woefully underused in the band. > > She had a stunning, angelic voice but was most often > > relegated to backing vocals, playing second fiddle to > > boyfriend Scott Miller's unremarkable warble. > > Mammoth Gardens. > The vocal performance of which is confident and assured. What a shame that the song is sub-Benatar doggerel. > > > (Former Game Theory bassist Guillaume Gassuan wrote on his > > web site: "Scott's great talent was as a songwriter. Had he > > given the vocal reins away, the music would have been much > > more accessible and the band might have really broken > > out.") > > I can agree somewhat with this - I've heard the same complaint from > elsewhere. I find it interesting the writer took stuff from Gui's website. > Good thing I've never written about this. Yet. > The thing is, I can't really imagine Scott's songs being sung by anyone else. I'm sure some part of this is due to having played the hell out of my GT/LF records to the point that they're engraved in my brain. But they're really very personal songs, and even if the melisma at the end of "Not Because You Can" isn't particularly well-executed from a technical standpoint, I always look forward to it because he really nails it (in phrasing, maybe not so much in terms of intonation). As someone else mentioned on this thread, the great pop-music voices are intensely personal. Even the least-informed listener won't mistake Bob Dylan for Roger Daltrey, but it takes a real opera-queen to differentiate Peter Pears and Philip Langridge. > > > Because of her relationship with Steve, Donnette found > > herself also living in two worlds whenever he was with her. > > While her bandmates drove from show to show in an older van > > and slept on friends' couches and floors, Donnette traveled > > with Steve in rented cars and stayed with him in fancy > > hotels. This exacerbated the tension that already existed > > between her and band leader Scott Miller in the wake of > > their dissolved relationship. > > The tension that night came to a head when in no uncertain terms, I told > Scott and Donnette what I thought of the situation. > I think I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall... > > > > "I'll never forget the one night [my bandmates] dropped us > > off, still trying to be groovy," Donnette wrote: > > WTF? > I think she means "pretending to be friends". Thanks, Gil, for your comments. As usual, very interesting and helpful. - -- Matt + Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature. Chuang-tzu (369-286 B.C.), Joined Toes ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:27:05 -0700 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory in Kilby/Church bio On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 8:06 PM, Dan Sallitt wrote: > I felt tremendously guilty, but not after I found my amp later with all the >>> tubes mysteriously smashed. >>> >> >> This is true. >> > > We won't tell Donnette, Gil: who did for that amp? - Dan > I have to confess that I'm curious too. I just didn't want to be the first to ask. - -- Matt + Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature. Chuang-tzu (369-286 B.C.), Joined Toes ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:38:24 -0700 From: Andrew Hamlin Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory in Kilby/Church bio On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Stewart Mason wrote: > "Stunning, angelic voice"? > > Donnette Thayer? > > Huh. Hey, for all we know, the author's getting paid off. What I said before about everything changing... Andy "...I've heard people say money is the root of all evil, but of course they're nuts. Lack of money is the root of all evil. If I don't have a dime in my pocket, I might hold up a 7-Eleven. If I have $100 million in the bank, why would I want to grab a gun and hold up a 7-Eleven? People are very uncomfortable talking about money, but I'm happy to. Money is good. Anyone who tells you it's not ... How about buying your mom the hip operation she needs, or buying your child the food he needs. Love, unfortunately, is not the most powerful force in the universe. Love, despite what they tell you, is not going to put food in your mouth no matter how many times you say, 'I love myself and I love my child.' Only money can do that. And how much is enough? I believe that's a loser's game. I believe it's never enough. I like to think that Bill Gates, who has quite a bit more than I do, gets up an hour earlier, and works harder and tries to make more. Because more is what America's about. 'When is enough?' is limiting..." - --Gene Simmons, from http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/investing/20030922a1.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:50:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory in Kilby/Church bio > I have to confess that I'm curious too. I just didn't > want to be the first > to ask. Oh boy....I hate to disappoint, but I just won't say anything except that it was not Scott. Gil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:56:23 -0700 From: Andrew Hamlin Subject: Re: BEHIND the MUUUUSIC Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory in Kilby/Church bio > I suspect that most versions would be unsatisfying, like most Beatles covers > are unsatisfying in one way or another. > (Yet Dylan seems to lend himself to so many wonderful covers.) > It's a mystery. > To me, anyway. Well, we did have a Scott tribute album, all those years ago. Any copies still kicking around? And I still adore Tim's a cappella "Inverness" (whatever became of that?), Andy "Night" I LOVE the silent hour of night, For blissful dreams may then arise, Revealing to my charmed sight What may not bless my waking eyes. And then a voice may meet my ear, That death has silenced long ago; And hope and rapture may appear Instead of solitude and woe. Cold in the grave for years has lain The form it was my bliss to see; And only dreams can bring again, The darling of my heart to me. - --Anne Bronte (1820-1849), from http://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/bronte/poems/ba-night.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:10:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory in Kilby/Church bio > > Mammoth Gardens. > The vocal performance of which is confident and > assured. What a shame that > the song is sub-Benatar doggerel. That was meant to be my point. But I'm cranky today. Donnette can certainly sing, and so can Scott, but his melodies rise above. Way above. > But they're > really very personal songs, and even if the melisma at the > end of "Not > Because You Can" isn't particularly well-executed from a > technical > standpoint, I always look forward to it because he really > nails it (in > phrasing, maybe not so much in terms of > intonation). > Exactly! And as mentioned earlier, as a singer, he got better and better. His songs are not easy to sing! He is indeed a very personal singer, which in my book = great. > > The tension that night came to a head when in no > uncertain terms, I told > > Scott and Donnette what I thought of the situation. > I think I would have liked to have been a fly on the > wall... Oh, it was good! I *think* I remember Robert rising up from the van bench and giving me a look like - "Holy Crap"! I don't mind discussing my feelings at all on this, but I have never, ever discussed this with Scott. I would love to hear his take on this (didn't really hear much from him on the tour), but I will never ask him. That is his stuff to keep private as long as he wants. The man still played his heart out every goddamn night of that tour. > Thanks, Gil, for your comments. As usual, very > interesting and helpful. Thanks. I was stunned by a comment by Gui on facebook regarding this, that was more or less: "I haven't thought about this stuff in years". I cannot NOT do that - and I admire Gui very much for that. He's moved on. At times I have become mired down in this stuff. It's with me everyday. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but it's there. And I'm really, really glad I was part of it. Gil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:32:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Game Theory in Kilby/Church bio > Thanks. I was stunned by a comment by Gui on facebook > regarding this, that was more or less: "I haven't thought > about this stuff in years". I cannot NOT do that - and I > admire Gui very much for that. He's moved on. At times I > have become mired down in this stuff. It's with me everyday. > I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but it's > there. And I'm really, really glad I was part of it. Hold on...I've lost count - too many negatives. What is meant was that I cannot ever forget GT. Where am I? Gil ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V8 #93 ******************************