From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V8 #64 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Wednesday, March 25 2009 Volume 08 : Number 064 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More Tommy Keene [outbound-only email address ] [loud-fans] oooh-wee-oooh-wee music [robert toren ] Re: [loud-fans] The Hazards of Love ["Joseph M. Mallon" ] Re: [loud-fans] oooh-wee-oooh-wee music [Dave Walker ] Re: [loud-fans] RE: songs separated at birth [Michael Bowen ] Re: [loud-fans] oooh-wee-oooh-wee music ["Joseph M. Mallon" ] Re: [loud-fans] The Hazards of Love [Steve Holtebeck ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 10:51:34 -0400 From: outbound-only email address Subject: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More Tommy Keene Tom Marcinko said: > I hadn't realized that he worked with Robert Pollard as the Keene Bros., but that's what I saw on Last.fm. < Keene is also playing the Doug Gillard role in the touring edition of Pollard's newish band Boston Spaceships. He/they were really good when I saw 'em last fall -- the two studio albums don't quite do the live band justice. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 08:32:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The Hazards of Love I would also like to add that I think Greg Lake has(had)one of the best voices in rock. Gil - --- On Mon, 3/23/09, Gil Ray wrote: > From: Gil Ray > Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The Hazards of Love > To: loud-fans@smoe.org > Date: Monday, March 23, 2009, 11:07 PM > --- On Mon, 3/23/09, Joseph M. Mallon > wrote: > > In honor of that song, my wife terms the entire genre > of > > prog > > "oooh-wee-oooh-wee" music. > > Man, THAT cracks me up! > > > For the record, I loathe ELP, love Genesis, and like a > lot > > Yes. I > > agree with the members of Yes, who've been quoted > that > > TFTO would make > > a really good single album. Conversely, I think WIND > & > > WUTHERING > > would've made a great double album. > > I generally agree with Joe, cuz I'm a prog-head > myself..As a teenager I liked ELP a lot. Saw them live and > was blown away...but that stuff does not age well. I also > saw Yes' TFTO tour and was pummeled into nodding out, > but I got the remastered CD and like most of it just fine. > Gil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 08:56:25 -0700 (PDT) From: robert toren Subject: [loud-fans] oooh-wee-oooh-wee music From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The Hazards of Love >>Joe: For the record, I loathe ELP, love Genesis, and like a lot Yes. >>Gil: I generally agree with Joe, cuz I'm a prog-head myself..As a teenager I liked ELP a lot. On a whim I got Trilogy last year and In The Beginning holds up really well - even the 20&30-something hip-hop folks at work dug it -, but most of it was unlistenable. Note: Our Steve H recently suggested - STRONGLY suggested - I check out The Soft Boys' Underwater Moonlight. Our Scott included Insanely Jealous on a mix tape that I played to death in the early 80s, and I used to hear I Wanna Destroy You on college radio stations. But this is the first time I really paid attention to The Soft Boys and woo! it's harsh - great musically, but not a friendly album - it's surprising to hear so much anger coming from Hitchcock, who I perceived to be a pretty-boy soft-edged acid poet. Anyway, great stuff. I think, after repeated plays, I am perceiving Scott's music a bit differently now - I imagine a Soft Boy's influence on Scott has already been noted/discussed here? Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 09:11:55 -0700 From: Matthew Weber Subject: Re: [loud-fans] oooh-wee-oooh-wee music On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 8:56 AM, robert toren wrote: > > Note: Our Steve H recently suggested - STRONGLY suggested - I check out > The Soft Boys' Underwater Moonlight. Our Scott included Insanely Jealous on > a mix tape that I played to death in the early 80s, and I used to hear I > Wanna Destroy You on college radio stations. But this is the first time I > really paid attention to The Soft Boys and woo! it's harsh - great > musically, but not a friendly album - it's surprising to hear so much anger > coming from Hitchcock, who I perceived to be a pretty-boy soft-edged acid > poet. > Anyway, great stuff. I think, after repeated plays, I am perceiving > Scott's music a bit differently now - I imagine a Soft Boy's influence on > Scott has already been noted/discussed here? > > Robert > It is a very angry album, and like a lot of RH's work with the Soft Boys, it has its misogynistic moments. When I saw the Soft Boys reunion tour however-many years back, I noticed that Robyn often changed some of the harsher lyrics so that they were less girl-critical : e.g. he altered that line in "Human Music" where he talks about girls smiling sweetly though their mouths are filled with flies. - -- Matt + The final cause, then, produces motion through being loved. Aristotle (384-322 B.C.), Metaphysics, bk. I, ch. 7 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 10:07:24 -0700 From: Tom Marcinko Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More Tommy Keene I can only think of the cover to the Boston guitar-as-giant-Close-Encounters-sorta-spaceship when I read that name. On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 7:51 AM, outbound-only email address < eeimmnno@antithetical.org> wrote: > Tom Marcinko said: > > > I hadn't realized that he worked with Robert Pollard as the Keene Bros., > but > that's what I saw on Last.fm. > < > > Keene is also playing the Doug Gillard role in the touring edition of > Pollard's newish band Boston Spaceships. He/they were really good > when I saw 'em last fall -- the two studio albums don't quite do the > live band justice. > - -- http://tomaq.livejournal.com/ Recently published: "A Close Personal Relationship" in New Writings in the Fantastic, ed. John Grant http://www.pendragonpress.net/books/new-writings-in-the-fantastic/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:23:27 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The Hazards of Love Gil Ray wrote: > I would also like to add that I think Greg Lake has(had)one of the best voices in rock. > Gil > When he was on key, perhaps. When I saw ELP, Greg was flat the whole night. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:35:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The Hazards of Love Flat? Bummer! Gil - --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Jenny Grover wrote: > From: Jenny Grover > Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The Hazards of Love > To: loud-fans@smoe.org > Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 12:23 PM > Gil Ray wrote: > > I would also like to add that I think Greg Lake > has(had)one of the best voices in rock. > > Gil > > > > When he was on key, perhaps. When I saw ELP, Greg was flat > the whole night. > > Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:46:32 -0700 From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The Hazards of Love Certainly not his stomach... On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Gil Ray wrote: > Flat? Bummer! > Gil > > > --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Jenny Grover wrote: > >> From: Jenny Grover >> Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The Hazards of Love >> To: loud-fans@smoe.org >> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 12:23 PM >> Gil Ray wrote: >> > I would also like to add that I think Greg Lake >> has(had)one of the best voices in rock. >> > Gil >> > >> >> When he was on key, perhaps. When I saw ELP, Greg was flat >> the whole night. >> >> Jen > - -- Joe Mallon jmmallon@joescafe.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 10:49:33 -1000 From: "R. Kevin Doyle" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] RE: songs separated at birth I am trying to get this particular thread out of my head, but I can't, so I'll add: "Don't Tell Me No" by The Cars "A Night Like This" by The Cure On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 10:47 PM, R. Kevin Doyle wrote: > Oh! > > "Other Voices" by The Cure/"There's Something Going On" by Frida > > No, seriously. > > > On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 10:14 PM, Francis J H Park wrote: > >> The dB's, "Love Is For Lovers" >> Jill Sobule, "Karen By Night" >> >> Sort of, I think. >> >> -- >> Francis J. H. Park >> Bagram, Afghanistan >> http://tbolp.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:04:29 -0400 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] oooh-wee-oooh-wee music On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 11:56 AM, robert toren wrote: > On a whim I got Trilogy last year and In The Beginning holds up really well - even the 20&30-something hip-hop folks at work dug it -, but most of it was unlistenable. If you're looking for "the prog that goes boom" (apologies to Le Tigre) I always loved the rhythm section interplay on the "classic age" Yes material: there are parts of "Starship Trooper", "Close To The Edge", and "Roundabout", and "Long Distance Runaround", for example, that are actually, with disclaimer or apology, funky. -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:07:45 -0400 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] oooh-wee-oooh-wee music On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Dave Walker wrote: >(apologies to Le Tigre) Er, I meant L'Trimm, of course... -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:07:51 -0400 From: Michael Bowen Subject: Re: [loud-fans] RE: songs separated at birth I noticed a song on the new Robyn Hitchcock album (I think it's "TLC", but I'd have to listen again to make sure) has the same chord structure on the verses as "Blue Moon", with a slightly different resolution on the last line. Or at least that's the way this non-musician heard it. It sounded a lot more obvious than some of the examples that have been made earlier in this thread. MB ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:11:19 -0700 From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] oooh-wee-oooh-wee music "Heart of the Sunrise"'s fast sections, too! On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Dave Walker wrote: > On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 11:56 AM, robert toren wrote: > > >> On a whim I got Trilogy last year and In The Beginning holds up really well - even the 20&30-something hip-hop folks at work dug it -, but most of it was unlistenable. > > If you're looking for "the prog that goes boom" (apologies to Le > Tigre) I always loved the rhythm section interplay on the "classic > age" Yes material: there are parts of "Starship Trooper", "Close To > The Edge", and "Roundabout", and "Long Distance Runaround", for > example, that are actually, with disclaimer or apology, funky. > > -d.w. > - -- Joe Mallon jmmallon@joescafe.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:12:05 -0400 From: Michael Bowen Subject: Re: [loud-fans] oooh-wee-oooh-wee music On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Dave Walker wrote: > If you're looking for "the prog that goes boom" (apologies to Le > Tigre) I always loved the rhythm section interplay on the "classic > age" Yes material: there are parts of "Starship Trooper", "Close To > The Edge", and "Roundabout", and "Long Distance Runaround", for > example, that are actually, with disclaimer or apology, funky. Oh, hell yes! Bill Bruford was an amazing drummer; he and Chris Squire interlocked like an 11-dimensional Swiss watch. I've never heard anyone that had the same snare sound he had, either. It always sounded like he had his snare head stretched twice as tight as anyone else's. I always thought that Yes' salad days were over once Bruford left. MB ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:32:18 -0700 From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] oooh-wee-oooh-wee music On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Michael Bowen wrote: > Oh, hell yes! Bill Bruford was an amazing drummer; he and Chris Squire > interlocked like an 11-dimensional Swiss watch. I've never heard > anyone that had the same snare sound he had, either. It always sounded > like he had his snare head stretched twice as tight as anyone else's. He did exactly that. Since drums weren't miked back then, he wanted a sound loud enough to make it to the back of the hall. Bill's got a new autobiography out: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1906002231/latenightline-20 Sounds wonderful. - -- Joe Mallon jmmallon@joescafe.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:36:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: [loud-fans] oooh-wee-oooh-wee music Bruford. I could go on for days about the man's drumming. My absolute #1 drummer. I tried so hard to duplicate that snare drum sound. Crack! Not Thud! When GT was mixing BSC at Mitch Easter's, (I had to fly back to SF to attend to personal matters) I requested of Scott to do whatever he wants, but please make the snare drum really crack on Make Any Vows. In my mind I wanted Bruford's sound he got in his first go at King Crimson...Scott and Mitch did a great job, and it's the best snare sound on the LP. He's been incredible to watch grow as a musician, and anyone who could put up with Robert Fripp's....eccentricies ("no cymbals..they cover up certain frequencies of my guitar..")has got to be ok in my book. Speaking of books...I gotta get this one. Geek out time for Gil! Gil - --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Joseph M. Mallon wrote: > From: Joseph M. Mallon > Subject: Re: [loud-fans] oooh-wee-oooh-wee music > To: loud-fans@smoe.org > Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 2:32 PM > On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Michael Bowen > wrote: > > Oh, hell yes! Bill Bruford was an amazing drummer; he > and Chris Squire > > interlocked like an 11-dimensional Swiss watch. > I've never heard > > anyone that had the same snare sound he had, either. > It always sounded > > like he had his snare head stretched twice as tight as > anyone else's. > > He did exactly that. Since drums weren't miked back > then, he wanted a > sound loud enough to make it to the back of the hall. > Bill's got a > new autobiography out: > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1906002231/latenightline-20 > > Sounds wonderful. > > -- > Joe Mallon > jmmallon@joescafe.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:53:15 -0700 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The Hazards of Love On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 12:46 PM, Joseph M. Mallon wrote: > Certainly not his stomach... I'm glad I wasn't the only person who thought of that when I saw the words "Greg Lake" and "flat" in the same sentence. Made me think of the Wondermints' "In And Around Greg Lake". On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 8:56 AM, robert toren wrote: > Note: Our Steve H recently suggested - STRONGLY suggested - I check out > The Soft Boys' Underwater Moonlight. Our Scott included Insanely Jealous on > a mix tape that I played to death in the early 80s, and I used to hear I > Wanna Destroy You on college radio stations. But this is the first time I > really paid attention to The Soft Boys and woo! it's harsh - great > musically, but not a friendly album - it's surprising to hear so much anger > coming from Hitchcock, who I perceived to be a pretty-boy soft-edged acid > poet. UNDERWATER MOONLIGHT is an angry album, and quite overtly political in spots. I've been listening to Robyn Hitchcock's entire thirty year discography over the course of this month, and think that album's the highest of high points he ever reached. Today I revisited the SBs reunion album NEXTDOORLAND, which I hadn't listened to in a long time. It's not as direct as their early stuff but still a pretty strong album! - -Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:06:11 -0700 From: Andrew Hamlin Subject: Re: [loud-fans] oooh-wee-oooh-wee music > If you're looking for "the prog that goes boom" (apologies to L'Trimm) I always >loved the rhythm section interplay on the "classic > age" Yes material: there are parts of "Starship Trooper", "Close To > The Edge", and "Roundabout", and "Long Distance Runaround", for > example, that are actually, with disclaimer or apology, funky. I don't have the book to hand, but Professor Holm-Hudson has something in there about "The Lamb" being "the funkiest rock opera." Peter Gabriel, for what's it's worth, started out as a huge Otis Redding fan. Getting to spin an Otis record once in a while, he says, helped get him through Charterhouse. We're Tigre, and Bunny, and we like the erogenous zones, Andy "And fair, swift Doves brought you over the black earth Dense wings whirring, from heaven down through middle air. Suddenly they arrived" - --Sappho, from http://community.middlebury.edu/~harris/Sappho.pdf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:39:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The Hazards of Love I'm loving all of the insight here...reminds me that in some regards, I'm not a very good listener. Gil - --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Steve Holtebeck wrote: > From: Steve Holtebeck > Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The Hazards of Love > To: loud-fans@smoe.org > Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 6:53 PM > On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 12:46 PM, Joseph M. Mallon > wrote: > > Certainly not his stomach... > > I'm glad I wasn't the only person who thought of > that when I saw the > words "Greg Lake" and "flat" in the > same sentence. Made me think of > the Wondermints' "In And Around Greg Lake". > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 8:56 AM, robert toren > wrote: > > Note: Our Steve H recently suggested - STRONGLY > suggested - I check out > > The Soft Boys' Underwater Moonlight. Our Scott > included Insanely Jealous on > > a mix tape that I played to death in the early 80s, > and I used to hear I > > Wanna Destroy You on college radio stations. But this > is the first time I > > really paid attention to The Soft Boys and woo! > it's harsh - great > > musically, but not a friendly album - it's > surprising to hear so much anger > > coming from Hitchcock, who I perceived to be a > pretty-boy soft-edged acid > > poet. > > UNDERWATER MOONLIGHT is an angry album, and quite overtly > political in > spots. I've been listening to Robyn Hitchcock's > entire thirty year > discography over the course of this month, and think that > album's the > highest of high points he ever reached. > > Today I revisited the SBs reunion album NEXTDOORLAND, which > I hadn't > listened to in a long time. It's not as direct as > their early stuff > but still a pretty strong album! > > -Steve ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V8 #64 ******************************