From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V7 #483 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, August 21 2008 Volume 07 : Number 483 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] What happened? ["Joseph M. Mallon" ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP ["Tom Marcinko" ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP ["Dave Walker" ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP ["outbound-only email address" ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP ["Matthew Weber" ] Re: [loud-fans] Luminous! ["Steve Holtebeck" ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP ["Stewart Mason" ] Re: [loud-fans] Luminous! [Gil Ray ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 00:48:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] What happened? On Tue, 19 Aug 2008, Tom Marcinko wrote: > ABBA always seemed to get an unfair bad rap, IMO. I was on a long auto trip > through Slovakia a few years ago (long story) and heard, for the first time > ever, "The Day Before You Came." Great song, I thought. I wonder who that > is? When the radio announced named the group, I was floored. My wife is and alays has been an ardent ABBA fan. She says the album tracks are just as strong as the singles. I'll stick w/ ABBA GOLD, though. > And no Bruce Springsteen from '76. Huh. He didn't release an album that year. BORN TO RUN was '75. I missed A TRICK OF THE TAIL, although I understand why it might've been a bit foofoo for Scott. Joe Mallon jmmallon@joescafe.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:40:27 -0700 (PDT) From: robert toren Subject: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Was Jam, now SSWMCP >> Sleepers - Crash Into June I can imagine Crash on the radio... great line: Such a sorry state... of affairs... >>2 Steps - Wyoming/Throwing The Election I would think What The Whole World Wants - I remember hearing it on a radio ad for a gig on the 88 tour while heading into Atlanta or something, pretty catchy driving tune... >> Scott may have been going for a commercial ringer with >> Moody Girls, but I don't think it worked out >> particularly well. I've always heard echoes of TH's The Girls Want To Be With The Girls in MG - live by the Quercio GT 1990 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7mMI_7x7bw I thought it might catch on based on the lyrical hook/subject alone... Moody Girls indeed! Robert Who got permission to put digitized clips from Danny Plotnick's LF tour DVD on YouTube ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:24:08 -0700 From: "Douglas Stanley" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] What happened? >Re: [loud-fans] What happened? ["Andrew Hamlin" ] >And I don't care what the JDC (or Christgau) says, you can't LOVE IT >TO DEATH without "Black Juju," >Andy - ----------- Word. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:39:21 -0700 From: "Tom Marcinko" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP >>What The Whole World Wants<< 2 Steps was the first GT album I listened to, and that song was the first that really caught my attention. Because my brain could not wrap itself around "Room for One More, Honey" the first couple of times. It was like -- like -- in Whitley Streiber's books, when the alien looks through your window and all you see instead is an owl or a raccoon or something. On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 8:40 AM, robert toren wrote: > From: Gil Ray > Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Was Jam, now SSWMCP > > >> Sleepers - Crash Into June > > I can imagine Crash on the radio... great line: Such a sorry state... > of affairs... > > >>2 Steps - Wyoming/Throwing The Election > > I would think What The Whole World Wants - I remember hearing it on a > radio ad for a gig on the 88 tour while heading into Atlanta or something, > pretty catchy driving tune... > > >> Scott may have been going for a commercial ringer with > >> Moody Girls, but I don't think it worked out > >> particularly well. > > I've always heard echoes of TH's The Girls Want To Be With The Girls in MG > - > live by the Quercio GT 1990 > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7mMI_7x7bw > I thought it might catch on based on the lyrical hook/subject alone... > Moody Girls indeed! > > Robert > Who got permission to put digitized clips from Danny Plotnick's LF tour > DVD on YouTube ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:54:12 -0400 From: "Stewart Mason" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] What happened? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph M. Mallon" >> ABBA always seemed to get an unfair bad rap, IMO. I was on a long >> auto trip >> through Slovakia a few years ago (long story) and heard, for the >> first time >> ever, "The Day Before You Came." Great song, I thought. I wonder >> who that >> is? When the radio announced named the group, I was floored. > > My wife is and alays has been an ardent ABBA fan. She says the > album tracks are just as strong as the singles. I'll stick w/ ABBA > GOLD, though. Actually, the later albums -- starting with ARRIVAL, I'd say -- really are worth checking out. (The earlier, more bubblegummy, albums not so much: there are some genuinely painful songs on there.) Particularly as the two marriages started to disintegrate, there are some amazingly bitter lyrics on there, and the fact that they're set to songs just as ornate and melodic as, say, "Dancing Queen" just adds to the effect. I will always go to bat for ABBA. Though my personal favorite album of '76 is R. Stevie Moore's PHONOGRAPHY. S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:10:15 -0400 From: "Dave Walker" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP In my circle of friends (undergrad, mid-late 80s) "Erica's Word" was the "hit" (MTV 120 Minutes/college radio) that put Game Theory on everyone's radar. Whether it would have been possible for that song to have broken wider (if it had been licensed by a major or landed on a soundtrack) is anyone's guess. -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:07:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Micah Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP Hah! Perfect. That was my experience on hearing "Tinker to Evers to Chance." My expectations were so baffled that when I finally started to hear the songs, it was a small mystery to me why I didn't get it on impact. M. - ----- Original Message ---- From: Tom Marcinko To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 12:39:21 PM Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP >>What The Whole World Wants<< 2 Steps was the first GT album I listened to, and that song was the first that really caught my attention. Because my brain could not wrap itself around "Room for One More, Honey" the first couple of times. It was like -- like -- in Whitley Streiber's books, when the alien looks through your window and all you see instead is an owl or a raccoon or something. On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 8:40 AM, robert toren wrote: > From: Gil Ray > Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Was Jam, now SSWMCP > > >> Sleepers - Crash Into June > > I can imagine Crash on the radio... great line: Such a sorry state... > of affairs... > > >>2 Steps - Wyoming/Throwing The Election > > I would think What The Whole World Wants - I remember hearing it on a > radio ad for a gig on the 88 tour while heading into Atlanta or something, > pretty catchy driving tune... > > >> Scott may have been going for a commercial ringer with > >> Moody Girls, but I don't think it worked out > >> particularly well. > > I've always heard echoes of TH's The Girls Want To Be With The Girls in MG > - > live by the Quercio GT 1990 > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7mMI_7x7bw > I thought it might catch on based on the lyrical hook/subject alone... > Moody Girls indeed! > > Robert > Who got permission to put digitized clips from Danny Plotnick's LF tour > DVD on YouTube ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:56:52 -0400 From: "outbound-only email address" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP Dave Walker: >> In my circle of friends (undergrad, mid-late 80s) "Erica's Word" was the "hit" (MTV 120 Minutes/college radio) that put Game Theory on everyone's radar. << Dave reminds me tangentially that "2 Steps" was one of the four albums on CMJ's cover for the week of its release, for whatever that's worth. I think we picked "Wyoming" as the emphasis track at our tiny little no-account station. My other thought is that even the people whose job it is to pick hit singles really aren't all that good at it. I think there's way more blind stupid luck involved than anyone really wants to admit. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:14:26 -0400 From: "Michael Bowen" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 2:56 PM, outbound-only email address wrote: > My other thought is that even the people whose job it is to pick hit > singles really aren't all that good at it. I think there's way more > blind stupid luck involved than anyone really wants to admit. > Heh. Back in my college radio days, I said this song by a new British band couldn't be a hit because the singer's voice was too high-pitched and it had more tempo and time-signature shifts than "Tales From Topographic Oceans". "Roxanne" went on to be a hit anyway. MB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:57:58 -0700 From: "Michael Mitton" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP > In my circle of friends (undergrad, mid-late 80s) "Erica's Word" was Allow me to comment on behalf of an underexploited Game Theory demographic. I was in 8th grade when LN was released, and thanks to an older brother (and also to an erstwhile list member, dc), I got a tape duplicate of it. I remember quite clearly that it was Carol and Allison that got me hooked. But junior high was also the one period of my life where I was considered cool, so I got many of my friends listening to it as well. Everyone of them liked it, although they were more likely to go for harder songs like Waist and the Knees. In my little skater crowd, GT seemed to fit just fine alongside Agent Orange, Dead Kennedy's, etc. I also clearly remember hearing Wyoming for the first time, and it still feels like a hit. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:18:16 -1000 From: "R. Kevin Doyle" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP I was also a college program director during "BSC," "LN" and "TSFTMA." Our tradition, at the time at WRBC (Lewiston, ME) was to name a "record collection" after the outgoing GM and PD. Basically, if the GM liked Pink Floyd and nobody else had chosen them, all the Pink Floyd albums would be labeled "John Doe Memorial Pink Floyd Collection." Mine was the 'R. Kevin Doyle Memorial Game Theory Collection." Heh. Anyhow, I say this because I promoted Game Theory pretty aggressively from 85-89. Before I'd left for college, my local station, WXCI, had "24" in heavy rotation, which was what got me interested in the band in the first place. When I became a DJ, that song was one of the ones I played the most. I heavily pushed 'Erica's Word" from "BSC" and that was probably my biggest success in promoting Game Theory - most of my friends eventually had that on mix tapes that they made independently of me, so I figure thats as good a way of measuring success for a band whose albums weren't really readily available in Maine. I also tried pushing "Crash Into June," "I've Tried Subtlety" and "Here It Is Tomorrow." If I'd had an ounce of sense, I would have pushed "Like a Girl Jesus," but I was young and foolish. I went apeshit nuts over "LN" when it came out and pushed a bunch of songs. I thought "Nothing New" should have been an enormous college radio hit, but I couldn't get it to catch on with my DJs. The songs that I was able to get the most people to play from LN were "We Love You, Carol and Allison" and 'The Real Sheila." I also tried to push "One More For St. Michael," "Last Day That We're Young" and 'Exactly What We Don't Want To Hear." The latter was surprisingly popular - at least in part to the length. On at least three occasions, I played the entire "Lolita Nation" album to my 12 or so listeners - if one defines "listeners" as "the people who happen to have the radio on when you are on the air." It got decent response, though side three elicited some dismay. When "Two Steps" came out, I was a little more realistic and decided I would focus on promoting one song very, very heavily from each album that we received. There are a number of songs I love from this album, but I decided that 'Don't Entertain Me Twice" would be the one my DJs would be most likely to play. I am pleased to say that that song, while not as big a hit at WRBC as "Erica's Word," got a ton of airplay in '88 and '89. I also played "Leilani," "Rolling With The Moody Girls" and (for about two months) opened every broadcast with "Room For One More, Honey." After three and a half years as program director, the thing I learned is that I don't have the slightest fucking idea what people want to listen to or why people want to listen to it. Songs that sounded like they should be huge college hits to me went largely unplayed. Songs that sounded like they didn't have a shot broke big. Heck, I thought Front 242, Nitzer Ebb, KMDFM and the other Industrial acts of the late 80's were a musical dead end (though I rather quite enjoyed them) and didn't push them all that much and they EXPLODED in popularity in '88 and '89 on WRBC. Part of the problem, of course, was that we let the DJs have ultimate authority over what they played. This meant that you could have whole blocks on the air where the most recently recorded song was "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes." When I managed to get a rule passed that every DJ had to play two songs during their show from any recently released album of their choice, I practically had a mutiny on my hands. Egads. Left to their own devices, many of my DJs would have been content to play the songs that they heard every single day blasting from every single form room on campus. Indeed, we would have been the 24/7 Squeeze/Violent Femmes/CSN station if certain members of our community had more than a two hour block once a week. Democracy, in essence, meant that nobody had to play anything they didn't want to play. In fact, they didn't have to listen to anything that hadn't been recorded pre-1975 if they didn't want to. If the DJs were unwilling to listen to anything new, God help the listeners. Anyhow, long story short, if Game Theory didn't break through to the extent that they should have, it certainly wasn't because of a lack of quality songs or interest among a vocal, discerning group of fans. Perhaps one reason was because when given the choice to play "Sledgehammer" which was on 24/7 rotation at MTV or "Crash Into June" which was not, a 19 year old DJ was going to usually go with the song they knew. Wow, much longer than I planned. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:36:05 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, R. Kevin Doyle wrote: > Part of the problem, of course, was that we let the DJs have ultimate > authority over what they played. This meant that you could have whole > blocks on the air where the most recently recorded song was "Suite: > Judy Blue Eyes." When I managed to get a rule passed that every DJ > had to play two songs during their show from any recently released > album of their choice, I practically had a mutiny on my hands. My exact experience in college radio, where I was also program director. We had the "format" - new music - and DJs had to play at least 3 songs from it every show. Half the DJs played Bon Jovi, Cinderella, and Bruce (the college had a large Jersey-based population) for 1:50 of a 2-hour shift, then stuck in 3 random 3-minute songs with a voiceover along the lines of "Here's the new shit we *have* to play. Sorry." Taste ossification sets in earlier in most people than in the members of this list. Say, at birth. Joe Mallon jmmallon@joescafe.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:03:40 -0400 From: "Stewart Mason" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP - ----- Original Message ----- From: "outbound-only email address" > My other thought is that even the people whose job it is to pick hit > singles really aren't all that good at it. I think there's way more > blind stupid luck involved than anyone really wants to admit. Exactly. And that, more than his being "too old" or his music "too complex," is why it's so unlikely that Scott Miller would have much commercial success if he were still out there plugging away. Now that it's possible to have a self-released album hit the charts -- Clap Your Hands Say Yeah, for example -- that does mean that the infrastructure is irrelevant in a way that it wasn't even a decade ago or less, but that's also why it's even more of a crapshoot now than it was before: it seems like thee's exponentially more new music than there used to be, but there's still the same number of slots in the Billboard Hot 100. S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:30:19 -0700 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP > My exact experience in college radio, where I was also program director. We > had the "format" - new music - and DJs had to play at least 3 songs from it > every show. Half the DJs played Bon Jovi, Cinderella, and Bruce (the > college had a large Jersey-based population) for 1:50 of a 2-hour shift, > then stuck in 3 random 3-minute songs with a voiceover along the lines of > "Here's the new shit we *have* to play. Sorry." Wow. So much for college radio as the bastion of Daniel Johnston, Happy Flowers, and Smog. It's raining rain (rainingly), Andy "Liberty is not the power of doing what we like, but the right to do what we ought." - --Lord Acton ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:07:05 -0400 From: "Michael Bowen" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 6:30 PM, Andrew Hamlin wrote: > > Wow. So much for college radio as the bastion of Daniel Johnston, > Happy Flowers, and Smog. > Interesting. My college station (WVBR, Cornell) was literally a training ground for Lee Abrams-style AOR jocks. I mean, there was serious discussion as to whether or not to play The Cars, whose first album was thought to be too far out of the mainstream. I assumed that every other college station was the total opposite. MB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 20:06:54 EDT From: Markwstaples@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP In a message dated 8/20/2008 3:22:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, r.kevin.doyle@gmail.com writes: Democracy, in essence, meant that nobody had to play anything they didn't want to play. If they were doing it for free, they should play what they want. Even if it's "Believe" extended 22 minute dance remix--or "We Built This City" on water glasses. I don't get paid for what I do, and I play what I want. Tell me to play BLOOD ON THE TRACKS or WEASELS RIPPED MY FLESH or WORKINGMAN'S DEAD or whatever WNCW play during the day or prime time evening by paid DJs, and I won't be driving 120 miles round trip and spending my own dime on gas to do this thing anymore. - --Mark fave ABBA--partial to VOULEZ VOUS--as my sister had it on vinyl and I used to play it when she was at work--ha-ha! **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:30:06 -1000 From: "R. Kevin Doyle" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP For the record, my college station was residential. Everybody lived on campus. Nobody was more than about three minutes from the station. And I am a music fascist. heh. On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 2:06 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 8/20/2008 3:22:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > r.kevin.doyle@gmail.com writes: > > Democracy, in essence, meant that nobody had to play anything they > didn't want to play. > > > If they were doing it for free, they should play what they want. Even if > it's "Believe" extended 22 minute dance remix--or "We Built This City" on water > glasses. > > I don't get paid for what I do, and I play what I want. Tell me to play > BLOOD ON THE TRACKS or WEASELS RIPPED MY FLESH or WORKINGMAN'S DEAD or whatever > WNCW play during the day or prime time evening by paid DJs, and I won't be > driving 120 miles round trip and spending my own dime on gas to do this thing > anymore. > > --Mark > > fave ABBA--partial to VOULEZ VOUS--as my sister had it on vinyl and I used > to play it when she was at work--ha-ha! > > > > > > **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel > deal here. > (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:41:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP - --- On Wed, 8/20/08, R. Kevin Doyle wrote: > From: R. Kevin Doyle > Anyhow, I say this because I promoted Game Theory pretty > aggressively > from 85-89. Bless you! > Anyhow, long story short, if Game Theory didn't break > through to the > extent that they should have, it certainly wasn't > because of a lack of > quality songs or interest among a vocal, discerning group > of fans. I was awestruck at the support we received from college radio. I would anxiously wait for the latest CMJ reports and play-lists. Folks like you, Kevin, were our heroes. The 3 LP's I played on were always made the top 20 (at least). I think... The thing that may have helped to hold us back (aside from the quirkiness level) was the age-old label support problems. I distinctly remember several instances when the radio stations didn't get any promo material until maybe the day before the show, or the day of the show and sometimes -not at all. I will always contend that the difference maker would have been aggressive management. We had road managers, booking agents, and....Scott V. (for the '85 tour), but after that, we never had one. That left all of the promotion, plugging, and making sure everything was in place to Scott Miller. He should not have been dealing with that aspect, at all. Not his strength. Bless his heart for trying, though! Donnette took a bunch of that responsibility on and did ok (she worked very hard), but I don't think it was enough. Sorry if this is me repeating stuff I've said over the years - but here' is something new I'd like to learn about: Did college radio drastically change in the 90's? Were the 80's the heyday? Thanks, Gil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 18:11:49 -0700 From: "Matthew Weber" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 5:41 PM, Gil Ray wrote: > > Sorry if this is me repeating stuff I've said over the years - but here' is > something new I'd like to learn about: > > Did college radio drastically change in the 90's? Were the 80's the heyday? > > Thanks, > Gil > From my vantage point, yes, it did. The 90s will be remembered as the era of college radio as a resume-builder. Quite a few college & community stations across the country either cut their locally-produced programming drastically (buying stuff from NPR and its affiliates for broadcast), or became commercial-radio wannabes, formatting their programming much more strictly and aping the practices & formulae of the big money radio stations. Also, the rise of the "alternative rock" format stole some of the thunder of college stations, many of whom were at a loss to function without an easily-discerned post-punk underground. Living in Dayton, OH at the end of the 80s (you may sympathize now), I remember WWSU at Wright State being overrun by junior broadcasting professionals and losing most of its charm in the process. WYSO at Antioch University has, over the years, continued to decrease its original programming, and is currently facing the possibility of being sold to a religious radio network. Luckily, a number of stations across the country keep the freeform ethos : WCBN in Ann Arbor, KALX in Berkeley, WFMU in East Orange--but their numbers continue to dwindle. I suspect part of the reason (apart from substantial community support for their efforts) is that they've resisted hiring consultant weasels to "broaden their listener base", and have only the bare minimum of paid staff (the more of those you have, the more likely corporate suckage becomes). None of this is backed up by science, of course--it's all anecdotal, but I still think I'm right. ;) - -- Matt + Wait for that wisest of all counselors, Time. Pericles (c. 495-429 B.C.) : From PLUTARCH, Lives, Pericles, sec. 18 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 23:07:43 -0400 (EDT) From: treesprite@earthlink.net Subject: [loud-fans] Luminous! I just cracked open my copy of the new Robyn Hitchcock & The Egyptians box, Luminous Groove, and was thrilled to see that the Fillmore concert poster featuring Game Theory and the Monks of Doom as opening acts is included in the artwork for the "Bad Case of History" bonus discs. I do believe our own Mr. Holtebeck has this poster displayed in his house and i've always admired it (while wishing I could've been there!) B www.byebyeblackbirds.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 20:07:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP Thanks for the detailed reply, Matt. It's sorta what I thought. After 1989 I dropped out of the whole scene and didn't keep up with anything regarding this. Funny..when I joined LF and we went on the DFD tour, I saw the itinerary and wondered why we weren't play any college towns? I believe it was Kenny that replied, more or less- "we're not a college radio band now" Oh yeah....learned that lesson pretty quickly! Gil - --- On Wed, 8/20/08, Matthew Weber wrote: > From: Matthew Weber > Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP > To: loud-fans@smoe.org > Date: Wednesday, August 20, 2008, 6:11 PM > On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 5:41 PM, Gil Ray > wrote: > > > > > Sorry if this is me repeating stuff I've said over > the years - but here' is > > something new I'd like to learn about: > > > > Did college radio drastically change in the 90's? > Were the 80's the heyday? > > > > Thanks, > > Gil > > > > From my vantage point, yes, it did. > > The 90s will be remembered as the era of college radio as a > resume-builder. > Quite a few college & community stations across the > country either cut their > locally-produced programming drastically (buying stuff from > NPR and its > affiliates for broadcast), or became commercial-radio > wannabes, formatting > their programming much more strictly and aping the > practices & formulae of > the big money radio stations. Also, the rise of the > "alternative rock" > format stole some of the thunder of college stations, many > of whom were at a > loss to function without an easily-discerned post-punk > underground. > > Living in Dayton, OH at the end of the 80s (you may > sympathize now), I > remember WWSU at Wright State being overrun by junior > broadcasting > professionals and losing most of its charm in the process. > WYSO at Antioch > University has, over the years, continued to decrease its > original > programming, and is currently facing the possibility of > being sold to a > religious radio network. > > Luckily, a number of stations across the country keep the > freeform ethos : > WCBN in Ann Arbor, KALX in Berkeley, WFMU in East > Orange--but their numbers > continue to dwindle. I suspect part of the reason (apart > from substantial > community support for their efforts) is that they've > resisted hiring > consultant weasels to "broaden their listener > base", and have only the bare > minimum of paid staff (the more of those you have, the more > likely corporate > suckage becomes). > > None of this is backed up by science, of course--it's > all anecdotal, but I > still think I'm right. ;) > > -- > Matt + > > Wait for that wisest of all counselors, Time. > Pericles (c. 495-429 B.C.) : From PLUTARCH, Lives, > Pericles, sec. 18 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 20:38:15 -0700 From: "Steve Holtebeck" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Luminous! On 8/20/08, treesprite@earthlink.net wrote: > I just cracked open my copy of the new Robyn Hitchcock & The Egyptians box, > Luminous Groove, and was thrilled to see that the Fillmore concert poster > featuring Game Theory and the Monks of Doom as opening acts is included in > the artwork for the "Bad Case of History" bonus discs. I do believe our own Mr. > Holtebeck has this poster displayed in his house and i've always admired it > (while wishing I could've been there!) I do. I'm looking at the poster right now. The RH/Monks of Doom/GT show at the Fillmore was just under twenty years ago (on September 8, 1988), which I think might have been the high point in Game Theory's career (right before the release of TWO STEPS). I thought LUMINOUS GROOVE was pre A&M Egyptians stuff, so I don't know why they included art from a post A&M gig! There are a handful of Scott song that I think could have been hits under the right circumstances, starting with "24" and "Curse of the Frontier Land" all the way to "Mavis of Maybelline Towers" (from WIIW). Enigma was essentially a AAA version of Capitol and they had a couple of bands (Poison and the Smithereens) break through while Game Theory was on the label. I'm pretty sure "Erica's Word" (for example) could have become an MTV/video hit with the right level of luck (and promotion). - -Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 22:47:28 -0400 From: "Stewart Mason" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Was Jam, now SSWMCP - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Weber" > The 90s will be remembered as the era of college radio as a > resume-builder. > Quite a few college & community stations across the country either > cut their > locally-produced programming drastically (buying stuff from NPR and > its > affiliates for broadcast), or became commercial-radio wannabes, > formatting > their programming much more strictly and aping the practices & > formulae of > the big money radio stations. Also, the rise of the "alternative > rock" > format stole some of the thunder of college stations, many of whom > were at a > loss to function without an easily-discerned post-punk underground. Matt saved me the trouble of typing pretty much exactly that. My college station killed all student programming after I had been there for a year in the early '90s, going strictly to NPR and canned feeds. I don't think there was a causal connection, although I did occasionally get in trouble for playing songs with sweary bits, even though my slot was 10 to 2 and I only played them after midnight. > Luckily, a number of stations across the country keep the freeform > ethos : > WCBN in Ann Arbor, KALX in Berkeley, WFMU in East Orange--but their > numbers > continue to dwindle. I suspect part of the reason (apart from > substantial > community support for their efforts) is that they've resisted hiring > consultant weasels to "broaden their listener base", and have only > the bare > minimum of paid staff (the more of those you have, the more likely > corporate > suckage becomes). Boston still has a thriving college radio scene, with WMBR and WERS being my personal faves. But the freeform ethos is largely gone, replaced mostly by shows with a much narrower focus. There's still a lot of great stuff -- MBR's The Intercontinental, 6-8 p.m. Wednesdays, is one of my favorite radio shows of all time -- but the days of a segue from, say, k.d. lang to Romeo Void are pretty much over. S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 23:52:13 -0400 (EDT) From: treesprite@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Luminous! >I thought LUMINOUS >GROOVE was pre A&M Egyptians stuff, so I don't know why they included >art from a post A&M gig! Some of the bonus material from the box is from the A&M era, which is a bit odd. Luckily, it includes two of my favorite Hitchcock songs ever ("Surfer Ghost" and the full band "Zipper In My Spine"). >Enigma was essentially a AAA version of Capitol and they had a couple >of bands (Poison and the Smithereens) break through while Game Theory >was on the label. I'm pretty sure "Erica's Word" (for example) could >have become an MTV/video hit with the right level of luck (and >promotion). Even with the right level of luck and promotion, I think Scott's voice was probably the ingredient most at odds with commercial acceptance. I really like his voice (especially from IBC on), but it's an odd voice and not generally in tune enough for people who would otherwise like the style of music. I've turned some folks on to the GT/LF catalog over the years, but most of my failures have been because of Scott's singing. B www.byebyeblackbirds.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 00:11:53 -0400 From: "Stewart Mason" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Luminous! - ----- Original Message ----- From: > Even with the right level of luck and promotion, I think Scott's > voice was probably the ingredient most at odds with commercial > acceptance. I really like his voice (especially from IBC on), but > it's an odd voice and not generally in tune enough for people who > would otherwise like the style of music. I've turned some folks on > to the GT/LF catalog over the years, but most of my failures have > been because of Scott's singing. Oddly, most of the people I know who didn't like Game Theory don't blame the singing, but the arrangements and production, specifically the keyboards. There's this very harsh, needly, Eno-on-the-first-two-Roxy Music-albums quality to the keyboards throughout Game Theory's career. I like it, but it turns out that a lot of people think they clash with everything else. S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 22:21:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Luminous! - --- On Wed, 8/20/08, Steve Holtebeck wrote: > I do. I'm looking at the poster right now. The > RH/Monks of Doom/GT > show at the Fillmore was just under twenty years ago (on > September 8, > 1988), which I think might have been the high point in Game > Theory's > career (right before the release of TWO STEPS). I have this framed my hallway. It's the coolest thing I have. Gil ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V7 #483 *******************************