From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V7 #383 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, April 24 2008 Volume 07 : Number 383 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] sound "gelling" ["outbound-only email address" ] Re: [loud-fans] sound ["outbound-only email address" ] Re: [loud-fans] ...and that's the horn for the end of the first ["Joseph ] Re: [loud-fans] sound [Jenny Grover ] Re: [loud-fans] sound "gelling" ["Joseph M. Mallon" ] [loud-fans] this is serious and urgent if you create anything [Jenny Grov] Re: [loud-fans] sound "gelling" [Gil Ray ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:17:48 -0400 From: "outbound-only email address" Subject: [loud-fans] sound "gelling" Mark: >> I wonder why this "sound gelling" occurs, guess it's comfort with playing with the same players, or using the same producer repeatedly. I can't think of a time this occurred in Scott's music. Each album is pretty different to me. << This is interesting - I kind of disagree a lot in the case of REM, I think "Pageant" sounds a lot like "Fables" and a good bit like "Document," and I think several of the later albums sound very distinctive, "Monster" certainly, and "Hi-Fi" and "Out of Time." REM also worked with a lot of different producers after "Pageant" and the same production team for the earliest records. I'm also not sure I agree about the Cure, although I stopped paying close attention after the (disappointing, at least to me) "Wish" ...but you some up how I feel about the Connells for sure. The records through "Fun & Games" seemed to have a lot of distinct personality and after that, with "One Simple Word," "Ring," et alI felt like they kept releasing more-or-less the same record over and over again. It was a record I still liked, but I liked it a little less every time it came out. I always thought "Two Steps" felt very much like a sequel to "Lolita Nation" but otherwise I agree with you about Scott, too. I get the impression he really pushed himself artistically to avoid falling into the sort of trap you describe. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 09:37:20 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] sound doug: >This is interesting - I kind of disagree a lot in the case of REM, I think >"Pageant" sounds a lot like "Fables" and a good bit like "Document," Agreed. I will say that I always think of LRP and DOCUMENT as a grouping, maybe because they're my two favorites, or maybe because they happily coexisted on the same C90 during college. >REM also >worked with a lot of different producers after "Pageant" and the same >production team for the earliest records. Actually, I thought the producer for everything from DOCUMENT through NEW ADVENTURES was Scott Litt. It was Mitch and Don through RECKONING, but then they went to the UK and Joe Boyd (of Fairport/Thompson fame) for FABLES and Don Gehman for LRP, then it was Scott Litt for a decade. >I'm also not sure I agree about the Cure, although I stopped paying close >attention after the (disappointing, at least to me) "Wish" BLOODFLOWERS is definitely worth your time, IMO. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:12:42 -0400 From: "outbound-only email address" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] sound Miles: >> Actually, I thought the producer for everything from DOCUMENT through NEW ADVENTURES was Scott Litt. It was Mitch and Don through RECKONING, but then they went to the UK and Joe Boyd (of Fairport/Thompson fame) for FABLES and Don Gehman for LRP, then it was Scott Litt for a decade. << fair 'nuff. I didn't double-check, and underestimated the length of Litt's tenure. They've worked with a bunch of different folks since, though, no? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 09:46:34 -0700 From: "Steve Holtebeck" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] sound On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 8:12 AM, outbound-only email address wrote: > Miles: > > >> > Actually, I thought the producer for everything from DOCUMENT through NEW > ADVENTURES was Scott Litt. It was Mitch and Don through RECKONING, but then > they went to the UK and Joe Boyd (of Fairport/Thompson fame) for FABLES and > Don > Gehman for LRP, then it was Scott Litt for a decade. > << > > fair 'nuff. I didn't double-check, and underestimated the length of > Litt's tenure. They've worked with a bunch of different folks since, though, no? Two different folks. After Scott Litt, Pat McCarthy produced everything from UP thru AROUND THE SUN, and Jacknife Lee produced ACCELERATE. I think the loss of Litt was almost as big as the loss of Bill Berry for R.E.M. There's a distinct sound on DOCUMENT through NEW ADVENTURES that went missing on the last few records, and it's not just a different drummer. I tend to think of DOCUMENT more as a precursor to GREEN than a continuation of PAGEANT, and LIFES RICH PAGEANT as a continuation of FABLES. I see R.E.M.'s career is a long series of album couplets (MURMUR/RECKONING, FABLES/LRP, DOCUMENT/GREEN, OOT/AFTP, MONSTER/NEW ADVENTURES, UP/REVEAL) up until their last two albums, which have absolutely nothing in common. - -Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:55:24 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] ...and that's the horn for the end of the first On Tue, 22 Apr 2008, zoom@muppetlabs.com wrote: > I noticed Jill Tracy's new one, THE BITTERSWEET CONSTRAIN, comes out in > May on 125. Sue and/or Joe, wanna say a few words? If you've liked Jill's previous album DIABOLICAL STERAK, you will love this one. Haunting melodies, lots of orchestral accompaniment, and her lovely voice & piano floating over it. Samples here: http://www.myspace.com/jilltracymusic Buy it here: http://www.125records.com Joe Mallon jmmallon@joescafe.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:07:27 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] sound Miles Goosens wrote: > BLOODFLOWERS is definitely worth your time, IMO. > I just acquired "Bloodflowers" recently, after being quite impressed by that section of the "Trilogy" video I picked up this spring, and I would agree that it's worthwhile, though I think the performances on the video are richer. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:51:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] sound "gelling" On Wed, 23 Apr 2008, outbound-only email address wrote: > I always thought "Two Steps" felt very much like a sequel to "Lolita > Nation" but otherwise I agree with you about Scott, too. I get the > impression he really pushed himself artistically to avoid falling into > the sort of trap you describe. I believe that's explicitly the case. He actively avoids the constructions that would make an album sound the same. Closest of that ilk to me are PBRT/Linda & D4D/AN. Joe Mallon jmmallon@joescafe.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 09:57:45 -1000 From: "R. Kevin Doyle" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] sound On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Jenny Grover wrote: > Miles Goosens wrote: > > > BLOODFLOWERS is definitely worth your time, IMO. > > > > > > I just acquired "Bloodflowers" recently, after being quite impressed by > that section of the "Trilogy" video I picked up this spring, and I would > agree that it's worthwhile, though I think the performances on the video are > richer. Agreed. While "Pornography" and "Disintegration" are bleak, they have a fairly rich aural palette. "Bloodflowers" has some excellent moments, but the album sounds washed out as a whole. You're doing yourself a favor by checking out the 'Trilogy' video instead. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:49:55 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: [loud-fans] this is serious and urgent if you create anything Apparently they are planning to reintroduce the Orphan Works bill in Congress this week. Please refer to this page, read about this bill and its potentially disastrous consequences for artists, musicians, photographers, and writers (even amateurs) if this bill becomes law. Then contact your Congressmen quickly to express your views. Seriously, it could adversely affect anyone on this list who creates anything. There are much better ways to approach the orphan works problem than this! http://www.illustratorspartnership.org/01_topics/article.php?searchterm=00185 You can find your Congressmen's contact info here: http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:00:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: [loud-fans] sound "gelling" This has been a very interesting thread! I feel the need to mention Magnetic Field's Distortion..I'm all for concepts (which Scott can do fabulously), but I think I am not thrilled about Merritt's concept to...distort this time around. On first listen, I was digging it. I'm a huge fan and I was thirsty for more music from them. Several listens later, I decided I'm not a fan of Distortion. As Stacey remarked "a little distortion goes a long way". I agree. Merritt distorted one of the things I liked best about that band - The wonderful and unique instrumentation! There was a brilliant chamber ensemble sound to the band that was buried. Jeezus,,you start running banjos and cellos through a distortion pedal, you're gonna get something that just sounds like an electric guitar. It all turned to mush for me. I wanted another 69 Love Songs! I may be thinking about the relationship between LF's DFD and AN in a different light than Joe, but to me they are polar opposites. DFD has a definite lighter and breezier feel to it than AN. Much of that has to do with the studio and engineer,Tom Carr. He had little experience working with rock bands. Most of his experience had been with jazz bands and commercial types of music. He was very excited to be working w/us, though and I'm pretty sure he enjoyed the whole experience. He got to do stuff that was completely new to him, and I think he did a great job. The other factor about DFD was that there was a very new energy in the band, and I think it had a lot to do with Alison's unbridled enthusiasm and positive mind set. That's one of the main reasons I joined that band. It was such a change from the previous LF's line-up and sound. I wanted to build on that and I think my playing on DFD reflects that to some degree. I'm also pretty sure that Scott was picking on the new...vibe..of the band, and that was reflected in his writing and production. AN on the other hand was a beast. I listened to it a couple weeks ago and I was overwhelmed by the fact that it sounded like an album that was made by a band that was slowly being suffocated...I still like it, though. I worked really hard on my drum parts. By then, I knew I just could not muster up the drive and confidence I had w/Game Theory, so I did what most musicians do when faced with such a dilemma - I went with TEXTURE! And I'm fine with that. I think Scott's songs are good, but the overall sound of the record is the opposite of DFD. Dark and dense. It was done at a different studio that I'm sure was much cheaper than the previous album's. The engineer (Jeff Byrd), was great to work with, but his experience seemed to be totally mid-late 90's alternative rock. No light touch here. We also knew going into the recording process that this was the last album Scott was contracted for. We also knew that the label was starting to go under. We also knew that we would be touring to support the record without any support from Alias. While we didn't really discuss it, I think we all knew that it was over. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I thought the tour would be doomed, and in many ways it was, and that probably made it more palatable to accept the end. Gil --- "Joseph M. Mallon" wrote: > On Wed, 23 Apr 2008, outbound-only email address > wrote: > > I always thought "Two Steps" felt very much like a > sequel to "Lolita > > Nation" but otherwise I agree with you about > Scott, too. I get the > > impression he really pushed himself artistically > to avoid falling into > > the sort of trap you describe. > > I believe that's explicitly the case. He actively > avoids the > constructions that would make an album sound the > same. Closest of that > ilk to me are PBRT/Linda & D4D/AN. > > Joe Mallon > jmmallon@joescafe.com ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V7 #383 *******************************