From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V7 #29 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Monday, February 5 2007 Volume 07 : Number 029 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] Not voting for WiiW [GlenSarvad@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] poll results ["bradley skaught" ] [loud-fans] unearthing the past [CertronC90@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] poll results [2fs ] [loud-fans] Re: unearthing the past [CertronC90@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] poll results ["Andrew Hamlin" ] Re: [loud-fans] poll results ["R. Kevin Doyle" ] Re: [loud-fans] poll results [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [loud-fans] poll results [glenn mcdonald ] Re: [loud-fans] poll results [glenn mcdonald ] Re: [loud-fans] poll results [JRT456@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] poll results [Michael Zwirn ] Re: Fw: [loud-fans] poll results ["Steve Holtebeck" ] Re: [loud-fans] poll results [zoom@muppetlabs.com] Re: [loud-fans] poll results [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [loud-fans] poll results [2fs ] Re: [loud-fans] poll results [2fs ] Re: [loud-fans] poll results [dc ] Re: [loud-fans] poll results ["Stewart Mason" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 06:32:47 EST From: GlenSarvad@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] Not voting for WiiW To answer yesterday's question...not having a title on one's year-end list hardly implies criticism. I thought 2006 provided the stiffest competition in years- WiiW would have safely made my 2005 top ten. It sat someplace in the mid-teens for my personal 2006 list, and I resisted the urge to slide it onto the end of my poll submission because doing so struck me as disingenuous. My only real complaint about the album is that it feels kinda slight- but that's from someone who's partial to Scott's "grand statements" a la LN, IBC, PABARAT (and who thought DfD and AN were career low points). Which reminds me, I'm not sure I ever posted a link to this review I wrote: _http://www.stompandstammer.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=653& Itemid=50_ (http://www.stompandstammer.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=653&Itemid=50) (while you're at the site, there's a freshly-posted Of Montreal cover story I wrote....) Glen, who BTW agrees with Mark's comments re: B&S. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 09:50:30 -0800 From: "bradley skaught" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] poll results > I think "Song About 'Rocks Off'," "Mavis..." and "Don't >Bother..." are as > good as the best tracks from any other Scott album. I agree. I think these are not just songs that stand out on the album, but songs that would make a career list of Scott's best songs. I can understand the covers or Anton's presence being too distracting, or even a turn-off for some folks, but if you love Scott's songwriting at all it's hard to imagine why you'd pass up an album with three of his finest. > I'll also say that he makes a good editor for Anton It's funny talking with Anton about it, because it doesn't seem like he recognizes how much better he is with that kind of editing and assistance. I'm also on the list of folks who don't really want to hear anyone but Scott sing on his albums, and i'm usually the opposite with bands. Hell, i'm the guy who started liking Teenage Fanclub _more_ when the others guys got more lead vocals. B ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 13:43:27 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] poll results On Sat, 3 Feb 2007, zoom@muppetlabs.com wrote: > Which leads us to the question: what did you Loudfans who got WHAT IF > IT WORKS? but didn't vote for it, not hear in it? Why does preferring thing A to thing B require a justification in terms of thing B? It's not like any record in my top 15 was "just like What If It Works, except with extra awesome!" a ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 14:01:03 EST From: CertronC90@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] unearthing the past It's been available since last spring, but I'm thinking seriously about spending the big bucks (probably about 35 dollars or so) and getting the reissue of Steve Kilbey's UNEARTHED album from Australia. It's an important record to me, and I've played it almost as many times as BIG SHOT (I must've been most sensitive to musical impact at age 19). It ain't cheap, which is why I'm especially wary of buying without hearing how the remaster sounds, compared to my Reagan era Enigma copy (which sounds like it was recorded off of an AM radio). Any Loudfans have the reissue of UNEARTHED ? How's the sound quality compared to the first generation CD? If it compares to the difference that I heard in The Jam's SOUND EFFECTS, I'm definitely in. I'd like to get THE SLOW CRACK reissue as well, but that'll have to wait, but I'm certain that the reissue of that HAS to sound better than the Rough Trade US CD I have--sounds like it was transcribed from a Certron. - --Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 13:01:49 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: [loud-fans] poll results On 2/4/07, Aaron Mandel wrote: > > On Sat, 3 Feb 2007, zoom@muppetlabs.com wrote: > > > Which leads us to the question: what did you Loudfans who got WHAT IF > > IT WORKS? but didn't vote for it, not hear in it? > > Why does preferring thing A to thing B require a justification in terms of > thing B? It's not like any record in my top 15 was "just like What If It > Works, except with extra awesome!" This would have been better if you'd said "Thing One" and "Thing Two," thereby facilitating Dr. Seuss jokes. Anyway, Andy's phrasing is a bit odd to me, too - as if you could say "well, I would have liked WIIW better than the Pernice Brothers CD if there'd been more songs in A minor about gazelles on WIIW." Still, given that this is a Scott Miller list, it seems reasonable to ask in what ways WIIW fell short for some people - regardless of how it compares to some other, better-loved album. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 14:04:34 EST From: CertronC90@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] Re: unearthing the past In a message dated 2/4/2007 2:01:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, CertronC90 writes: If it compares to the difference that I heard in The Jam's SOUND EFFECTS, I'm definitely in. Paul Weller and company make incredible lifelike sounds of trains, car horns and gun shots! I mean "Affects." lol M ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 11:08:14 -0800 From: "Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] poll results On 2/4/07, Aaron Mandel wrote: > On Sat, 3 Feb 2007, zoom@muppetlabs.com wrote: > > > Which leads us to the question: what did you Loudfans who got WHAT IF > > IT WORKS? but didn't vote for it, not hear in it? > > Why does preferring thing A to thing B require a justification in terms of > thing B? It's not like any record in my top 15 was "just like What If It > Works, except with extra awesome!" Merely curious. I could conceivably ask about any record, but the question becomes more interesting, I think, when it's the first record of new material in six years from the theoretical subject of this list. On top of which I'm curious about why other people apparently didn't love it as much as I did. And I'm seeing considered, erudite answers, even if I don't always agree with those answers. Which reminds me, Aaron, is there any way to view individual ballots? If not, that's fine, but I thought I'd ask. (And I foolishly forgot to write down my picks in order.) Wouldn't mind knowing who else voted for Meat Loaf, Smoosh, and Ornette... Andy "It's all regurgitated, been done before, etc., etc...." - --Dennis Wilken on De La Soul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 09:25:20 -1000 From: "R. Kevin Doyle" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] poll results I feel compelled to leap in here and mention that I have an iPod Shuffle and, thus, can only have 250 or so songs on it at any time. I, thus, have to pick and choose which songs I want to keep on it from week to week. It is like having the best radio station ever, but this is beside the point. The point is that "Total Mass Destruction" has been the only song from WIIW that has been on the shuffle constantly since the album was released. All of the others get shuffled in reguarly ("Mavis" in particular has a large number of returns), but for some reason, "Total Mass Destruction" just does it for me. What do I know? I still like "Mamoth Gardens." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 14:27:32 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] poll results On Sun, 4 Feb 2007, Andrew Hamlin wrote: > Merely curious. I could conceivably ask about any record, but the > question becomes more interesting, I think, when it's the first record > of new material in six years from the theoretical subject of this > list. I feel like, on the contrary, the longer you've been waiting for an album, the less your expectations have to do with it and the more they have to do with you. > Which reminds me, Aaron, is there any way to view individual ballots? Yeah, they'll be a little ugly, but you can view them by email address at: http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~aaron/poll/lf06/votes (These are the cleaned-up ballots... no public shaming awaits the people who voted for Yo La Tengo's album "I Am Not Afraid Of You And Etc." thereby making me have to type out the whole name myself so that it would count correctly.) a ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 14:30:00 -0500 From: glenn mcdonald Subject: Re: [loud-fans] poll results I was the other Meat Loaf voter, thanks to Aaron's radical and provocative 15-slot format, which got me to choose an 11-15 that I hadn't otherwise bothered to figure out. Nobody else seems to be adopting my own best-of innovation, which is doing a song-list as matched pairs. I did this one year and have become really fond of it. It makes me think about the particular qualities of the songs and which songs share which kinds of characteristics. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 14:36:50 -0500 From: glenn mcdonald Subject: Re: [loud-fans] poll results Also, while we're on the subject of polls, I just found my first nomination for best song of 2007: "Alaska", by Camera Obscura, a b- side on the single for _If Looks Could Kill_, which is itself from the excellent _Let's Get Out of This Country_, released in 2006 but not heard by me until just now. As sad as I am about the death of record stores via the death of CDs, I definitely see the appeal of being able to listen to bits of every song from 10 "import" CD singles and get the two songs I really like for $1.98 instead of $80-100. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 15:10:34 EST From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] poll results WIIW seemed like a perfectly fine album to me, and probably ended up on the 2006 Top Ten where I didn't list albums I'd heard in 2005 as imports. It also reminded me of The Negro Problem's WELCOME BLACK, where I thought that the album (even if and especially when judged solely by Miller's contributions) was a good effort by a usually great songwriter. The difference, of course, is that Stew had been turning out enough product to have conceivably run out of great material. He came back strong with a solo effort, though -- and his stage production of "Passing Strange" (written with Heidi) might make him the next Duncan Sheik. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 15:34:52 -0500 From: Michael Zwirn Subject: Re: [loud-fans] poll results On Feb 4, 2007, at 2:36 PM, glenn mcdonald wrote: > Also, while we're on the subject of polls, I just found my first > nomination for best song of 2007: "Alaska", by Camera Obscura, a b- > side on the single for _If Looks Could Kill_, which is itself from > the excellent _Let's Get Out of This Country_, released in 2006 but > not heard by me until just now. As sad as I am about the death of > record stores via the death of CDs, I definitely see the appeal of > being able to listen to bits of every song from 10 "import" CD > singles and get the two songs I really like for $1.98 instead of > $80-100. A brief comment on Camera Obscura - I haven't heard this single - I haven't even heard all of Let's Get Out of This Country, to my chagrin, although I loved the pieces that I heard - but I did see Camera Obscura around two weeks ago at the 9:30 Club and I didn't feel the slightest compulsion to even mention it. That's a bit sad, since the band did two of my favorite songs last year (the title track and "Lloyd, I'm Ready to Be Heartbroken"). As it turns out, the capacity-crowd audience at the 9:30 didn't know exactly what to think of the band either. The band was on stage, performing its songs dutifully and professionally, interjected periodically by mild commentary in an incomprehensible Scottish accent, without any sense of them "putting on a show." Camera Obscura has among the mildest on-stage personalities I've ever seen, and it's a pity, since the songs are charming  chiming indie-pop with staunchly traditionalist songwriting styles. Traceyanne Campbell sings a bit flat on a lot of tracks, but the guitar lines are crystalline and the periodic trumpet flourishes give the sometimes morose songs a sense of drama and funereality. It was all very pleasant, very professional  and very sedate. The sold-out crowd appeared to like it all, but no one seemed particularly excited. Michael - --------------------- Michael W. Zwirn, michael@zwirn.com (c) 503-887-9800 http://zwirn.com Skype: zwirnm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 13:17:25 -0800 From: "Steve Holtebeck" Subject: Re: Fw: [loud-fans] poll results Bradley: > Hell, i'm the guy who started liking Teenage Fanclub _more_ when the others > guys got more lead vocals. Teenage Fanclub have nearly always split their lead vocals three ways. One of the things I like about recent Belle & Sebastian is that the departure of Isobel and the other Stuart has allowed Murdoch to take over the reins and move beyond that early twee-pop sound that's kind of played out now. Have we mentioned Tris McCall's Jersey critics poll yet. Belle & Sebastian won in a landslide, with Camera Obscura at #2. CO won the singles poll with "Lloyd I'm Ready To Be Heartbroken". If it's not Scottish, etc.. http://www.trismccall.net/critics_poll_2006_results.htm glenn with 2ns: > As sad as I am about the death of record stores via the death of CDs, > I definitely see the appeal of being able to listen to bits of every > song from 10 "import" CD singles and get the two songs I really like > for $1.98 instead of $80-100. Or at a higher bitrate for 50-60 cents depending on your subscription level http://www.emusic.com/album/10996/10996895.html From whatever source, being able to buy "Hands Up Baby" and "Alaska" without having to re-buy "If Looks Could Kill" is one of the great triumphs of the download revolution. Some of the best songs are extra songs on singles and eps. The Shins' "alternate version" of "Split Needles" on the "Phantom Limb" single crushes the album version like a grape, and would be my favorite song on WINCING THE NIGHT AWAY if it were on the album. jeff with 2fs: > I'm not familiar with the original of "Remember You" (Steve will probably > laugh at me now) For anyone who isn't familiar with the Zombies' version of "Remember You", this CD is your friend. http://tinyurl.com/3dw42q - -Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 17:02:12 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] poll results >> I think "Song About 'Rocks Off'," "Mavis..." and "Don't >Bother..." are as >> good as the best tracks from any other Scott album. > > I agree. I think these are not just songs that stand out on the album, but > songs that would make a career list of Scott's best songs. I like "Don't Bother Me..." a lot - for a while it was the only song on the album I felt strongly about - and got to like "Mavis," but I still haven't warmed up to "Song About 'Rocks Off.'" It never settles for me melodically. I'd substitute "Total Mass Destruction" as the third Scott song on the album that won me over. The Anton songs on the record worked better for me than I expected, the covers were all pleasing, and I wound up with good feelings about the enterprise as a whole - better feelings than I have about ATTRACTIVE NUISANCE, I think. Still, I don't think there's a song on WIIW that would find a place on any average-size Scott sampler that I'd make. ("Blackness, Blackness" from ATTRACTIVE NUISANCE might be competitive.) I heard so few 2006 albums that my rankings aren't interesting, but the only album I can think of that aced WIIW is the Long Winters' PUTTING THE DAYS TO BED. I was surprised that that didn't make a showing in the loud-fans poll. - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 17:41:48 -0800 (PST) From: zoom@muppetlabs.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] poll results > Yeah, they'll be a little ugly, but you can view them by email address at: > > http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~aaron/poll/lf06/votes And thank you again sir! Measuring my picks against the list: (1) The Loud Family And Anton Barbeau - What If It Works? #1. 76.26 points (2) Meat Loaf - Bat Out Of Hell III: The Monster Is Loose #39. 6.02 points (3) Scott Walker - The Drift #12. 14.04 points (4) Sparks - Hello Young Lovers #11. 14.05 points (5) Smoosh - Free To Stay in a 7-way tie for #47. 5.02 points (6) Gil Ray - I Am Atomic Man! in a 5-way tie for #19. 10.03 points (7) Ornette Coleman - Sound Grammar in a 60-way tie for #167. 2.01 points (8) Lindsey Buckingham - Under The Skin #10. 15.06 points (9) Yusuf - An Other Cup in a 60-way tie for #167. 2.01 points (10) Sean Lennon - Friendly Fire in a 60-way tie for #167. 2.01 points So, I'm the only voter for three of my Top Ten, and also for all five of my Bottom Five: Mishka Adams - God Bless The Child Wadada Leo Smith And Adam Rudoph (actually Adam Rudolph) - Compassion Roberta Flack - Friends: Roberta Flack Sings Mariko Takahashi Rod Stewart - Still The Same...Great Rock Classics Of Our Time Johnny Cash - American V: A Hundred Highways ...and just because I enjoy this sort of stuff, I thought I'd compare Jackin' Pop's Top Ten with our poll: 1. 1. TV on the Radio - Return to Cookie Mountain (1338 points in 125 votes) in a five-way tie for #19. 10.03 points 2. Ghostface Killah - Fishscale (1247 points in 118 votes) in a 24-way tie for #81. 4.01 points 3. The Hold Steady - Boys and Girls in America (1073 points in 95 votes) in a two-way tie for #8. 17.06 points 4. Clipse - Hell Hath No Fury (1057 points in 102 votes) tied for #227. 1.01 points 5. Joanna Newsom - Ys (883 points in 84 votes) in a three-way tie for #29. 8.03 points 6. Bob Dylan - Modern Times (749 points in 70 votes) in a two-way tie for #8. 17.06 points 7. Gnarls Barkley - St. Elsewhere (623 points in 61 votes) in a two-way tie for #37. 6.04 points 8. The Knife - Silent Shout (607 points in 56 votes) (did not chart) 9. Neko Case - Fox Confessor Brings the Flood (588 points in 58 votes) #4. 32.12 points 10. Belle & Sebastian - The Life Pursuit (586 points in 54 votes) #2. 42.13 points So if anybody can vouch for Clipse and/or The Knife, let me know. Andy "Often beneath the wave, wide from this ledge The dice of drowned men's bones he saw bequeath An embassy. Their numbers as he watched, Beat on the dusty shore and were obscured. And wrecks passed without sound of bells, The calyx of death's bounty giving back A scattered chapter, livid hieroglyph, The portent wound in corridors of shells. Then in the circuit calm of one vast coil, Its lashings charmed and malice reconciled, Frosted eyes there were that lifted altars; And silent answers crept across the stars. Compass, quadrant and sextant contrive No farther tides . . . High in the azure steeps Monody shall not wake the mariner." - --Hart Crane, "At Melville's Tomb" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 21:27:14 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] poll results On Sun, 4 Feb 2007, zoom@muppetlabs.com wrote: > So if anybody can vouch for Clipse and/or The Knife, let me know. The Knife are a great brother/sister duo from Sweden who play perverse and creepy synth-pop. Among other things, they wrote the song "Heartbeats" that was featured in that Sony TV ad with thousands of brightly-colored plastic balls whooshing downhill in San Francisco. (The extremely non-creepy version used in the ad was a cover by fellow Swede Jose Gonzales.) Watch the videos for "Handyman" and "We Share Our Mother's Health" on YouTube to get a sense of their aesthetic. The bit in "Handyman" where the hammer licks a knife has been kind of stuck in my subconscious since I saw it. I didn't love Silent Shout beginning to end, but for some reason seeing it rate so highly with critics makes me feel like the world is a better place. a ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 21:43:40 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: [loud-fans] poll results On 2/4/07, zoom@muppetlabs.com wrote: > > > > 8. The Knife - Silent Shout (607 points in 56 votes) > > (did not chart) That surprises me! So if anybody can vouch for Clipse and/or The Knife, let me know. > It surprises me mostly because the Knife has gotten loads of press in the last year. What I've heard (three or four tracks in various mixes) is pretty intriguing: kind of dark-toned, synth-based, some dance influence, but I can't really compare the overall feel to anything else I can think of off the top of my head. On my "to-get" list. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 21:46:19 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: [loud-fans] poll results On 2/4/07, 2fs wrote: > > On 2/4/07, zoom@muppetlabs.com wrote: > > > > > > > > 8. The Knife - Silent Shout (607 points in 56 votes) > > > > (did not chart) > > > That surprises me! > > So if anybody can vouch for Clipse and/or The Knife, let me know. > > > > It surprises me mostly because the Knife has gotten loads of press in the > last year. What I've heard (three or four tracks in various mixes) is pretty > intriguing: kind of dark-toned, synth-based, some dance influence, but I > can't really compare the overall feel to anything else I can think of off > the top of my head. On my "to-get" list. Oh, I forgot to mention the singer's voice - a key aspect of what I've heard. She sings in sort of a low and vaguely creepy sounding voice, sometimes (it seems) pitch-shifted or FX'd in some way. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 19:51:50 -0800 From: dc Subject: Re: [loud-fans] poll results On Feb 4, 2007, at 11:25 AM, R. Kevin Doyle wrote: > I have an iPod Shuffle...The point is that "Total Mass Destruction" > has been the only song from WIIW > that has been on the shuffle constantly since the album was released. it's funny how our evaluation of our own reactions to the album now is informed by the technology in ways that weren't possible with an old-fashioned CD. looking at iTunes, i see that since i bought WiiW upon release, i have listened to the individual songs between two and six times each. i didn't dislike the album, it just didn't really grab me; it was a year when other albums (few of them released in 2006) were a lot more relevant to my life. the only lyric i can actually remember from the album was Anton's "the strawberry jam in the jar giving purpose to the lid," which i thought was positively brilliant. (and after only three plays, at that.) i don't know what that means. doug c ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 23:17:56 -0500 From: "Stewart Mason" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] poll results > So if anybody can vouch for Clipse and/or The Knife, let me know. I got SILENT SHOUT for something like $2 during the Tower blowout frenzy. Eh. I wasn't impressed, but my understanding is that this album is a departure from their earlier albums, which I haven't heard but which sound more up my alley. If you've seen that Sony ad with the balls, the Jose Gonzalez song is his version of the Knife's "Heartbeat." S ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V7 #29 ******************************