From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V6 #229 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Friday, November 17 2006 Volume 06 : Number 229 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] "What If It Works?" review [CertronC90@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] "What If It Works?" review [zoom@muppetlabs.com] Re: [loud-fans] "What If We Wed?" review [CertronC90@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] "What If It Works?" review ["Russell Keegstra" ] Re: [loud-fans] "What If It Works?" review [Jenny Grover ] [loud-fans] The Real Sheila live - YouTube link [robert toren ...like this one: > > http://www.research.att.com/~ttsweb/tts/demo.php That's actually the only working text-to-speech system on the Web, that I can think of. Any other ideas? For best results, set "Rich" to say "Bill O'Reilly is a big blubbering vagina," Andy Gay marriage showdown looms in Mass. By JAY LINDSAY, Associated Press Writer Wed Nov 15, 11:56 PM ET BOSTON - Gov. Mitt Romney plans to appear at a rally Sunday to demand that lawmakers, who have largely ignored him on the matter, vote on a proposed ballot question that would end gay marriage in Massachusetts. Last week, the Legislature again refused to take up the question at a joint session, voting instead to recess until Jan. 2, which all but killed the measure because a vote then is unlikely. Romney's spokesman, Eric Fehrnstrom, said the fight won't be over until the people vote. "No matter how you may feel about the marriage issue, people have a right to participate in their own government," he said. Arline Isaacson of the Gay and Lesbian Political Caucus said Romney is using a rally for a lost cause to boost his prospects with conservatives as he weighs a presidential run. "We're done, we won, it's over," Isaacson said. "No one wants this to continue except for the zealots on the other side and Romney because it helps his race." Because the Legislature is in recess and did not adjourn, Romney has no legal authority to call lawmakers back into session. Gay marriage opponents say they are considering legal options to force a vote. More than 170,000 people signed a petition in support of the ballot question, which would define marriage as only between a man and a woman. Supporters of the question say the state Constitution requires a vote, but lawmakers who support gay marriage say there's no such mandate. A similar amendment on gay marriage died in 2002 when lawmakers refused to vote on it. [--from http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061116/ap_on_re_us/massachusetts_gay_marriage ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 14:11:24 EST From: CertronC90@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] "What If We Wed?" review In a message dated 11/16/2006 1:28:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, zoom@muppetlabs.com writes: "No matter how you may feel about the marriage issue, people have a right to participate in their own government," he said. You know, the thing that bugs me the most on this issue is the viewpoint saying that, according to Leviticus, a man being with another man is an "abomination" unto God. Okay, well, accepting that in your belief system, The Bible also makes it clear about the guidelines for divorce, and what are considered acceptable grounds for divorce in the eyes of God, and not adultery. So, considering how many people divorce outside of these guidelines, and their rights are protected by the laws of our nation, homosexuals' rights should also be. Many of these people would run you over in their Chevy Silverados for lumping them into the same category as "faggots." I saw a documentary on gay marriage last year and it was so tragic. A lesbian couple in Florida, both police officers, were married in the Metropolitan Community Church and were devoted partners for a decade, then one was killed, and Florida would not recognize the widowed woman as her spouse, so she was denied benefits and property. The killed woman's father, who abandoned her as a child, was tracked down as next of kin and given everything. - --Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 12:54:18 -0700 From: "Russell Keegstra" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] "What If It Works?" review Mr. Hamlin: > > http://www.research.att.com/~ttsweb/tts/demo.php > > That's actually the only working text-to-speech system on the Web, that I > can think of. Any other ideas? Microsoft has a text-to-speech system that often comes bundled with other programs, but I find it too annoying to use. AT&T's here is not so great either. Whatever NOAA uses in their Weather Radio forecasts, that's good. Russ Australia is the only nation in the world to completely occupy an entire continent. This gives Australian government officials a +4 influence bonus, one extra Special Power usage, and two extra armies each turn. Wikipedia, from Bad Jokes And Other Deleted Nonsense ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 19:06:15 -0500 From: "Larry Brantley" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] "What If It Works?" review Getting back to the Stomp and Stammer review, it's by Glen Sarvady, who was a member of this list at some point, and met some of us at the Loud Family show at the Variety Playhouse in 2000. Larry (as always, pissed off because of Atlanta traffic) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 19:09:32 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] "What If It Works?" review Glen is one of the nicest people I've ever met, and he's about as free from "more alt than thou" nose-thumbing as anyone I know. And if you actually *read* the review rather than settling for Mark's gloss (that URL again folks)... http://www.stompandstammer.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=653&Itemid=50 ...it's actually a very positive review, and whether you agree with the small part of the review that tries out the "bellyaching" interpretation, that isn't presented as a negative, just an observation. And you've only got so much space in a review to talk about anything, so "Mavis = about parenting" is a valid one-sentence shot and isn't going to get the umpteen day interpretive workout that it can on Loud-Fans. Throughout the review, Glen makes a major effort to give Scott his due historically *and* for what he's accomplished on this album, and he singles out Anton for praise more than once. And if he ends up thinking WIIW is tremendously worthwhile but could have been a little bit better, well, for what it's worth so do I. later, Miles - -----Original Message----- >From: Larry Brantley >Sent: Nov 16, 2006 6:06 PM >To: loud-fans@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [loud-fans] "What If It Works?" review > >Getting back to the Stomp and Stammer review, it's by Glen Sarvady, who was >a member of this list at some point, and met some of us at the Loud Family >show at the Variety Playhouse in 2000. > > >Larry (as always, pissed off because of Atlanta traffic) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:20:18 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: [loud-fans] "What If It Works?" review On 11/16/06, Miles Goosens wrote: > > > > http://www.stompandstammer.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=653&Itemid=50 > > ...it's actually a very positive review, and whether you agree with the > small part of the review that tries out the "bellyaching" interpretation, > that isn't presented as a negative, just an observation. I hadn't noticed that Glen Sarvady wrote the review (I do recognize the name now) but my complaint about the "fanzines rave" line wasn't directed so much against this review in particular as against that kind of reading of lines like that. And you've only got so much space in a review to talk about anything, so > "Mavis = about parenting" is a valid one-sentence shot and isn't going to > get the umpteen day interpretive workout that it can on Loud-Fans. > It sounds like you're reading my comments there as a criticism of the review. Really, it was more of an observation ("I think the writer misses the tonal complexity of the lyric to 'Mavis' as well...") than a criticism. And certainly, it's great that the CD's being reviewed at all. It is a bit slight compared to other Scott albums (even if, like me, you like the Anton tunes), which I read as Scott kind of tentatively getting his feet wet. Apparently there's a New Year's gig scheduled - so that's good, he hasn't re-retired again already... - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:35:29 -0500 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] "What If It Works?" review Miles Goosens wrote: > Glen is one of the nicest people I've ever met, and he's about as free from "more alt than thou" nose-thumbing as anyone I know. And if you actually *read* the review rather than settling for Mark's gloss (that URL again folks)... > > http://www.stompandstammer.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=653&Itemid=50 > > ...it's actually a very positive review, and whether you agree with the small part of the review that tries out the "bellyaching" interpretation, that isn't presented as a negative, just an observation. And you've only got so much space in a review to talk about anything, so "Mavis = about parenting" is a valid one-sentence shot and isn't going to get the umpteen day interpretive workout that it can on Loud-Fans. Throughout the review, Glen makes a major effort to give Scott his due historically *and* for what he's accomplished on this album, and he singles out Anton for praise more than once. And if he ends up thinking WIIW is tremendously worthwhile but could have been a little bit better, well, for what it's worth so do I. > My complaint with the review is the description of Attractive Nuisance as "listless"! I know some of you groused about how it doesn't meet some sort of expectation or other that you had, but I think it's a beautiful, smart, brilliant album and I thoroughly enjoy it and the food for thought it dishes up. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:41:33 -0500 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] "What If It Works?" review 2fs wrote: > I hadn't noticed that Glen Sarvady wrote the review (I do recognize the name > now) but my complaint about the "fanzines rave" line wasn't directed so much > against this review in particular as against that kind of reading of lines > like that. > But don't you think it's really understandable? I know it's risky, and often inappropriate, to assume autobiography in a pop song, but when the show fits... Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:42:21 -0500 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] "What If It Works?" review Um... make that when the SHOE fits. sheesh. I need to get more sleep... Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:04:36 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: [loud-fans] "What If It Works?" review On 11/16/06, Jenny Grover wrote: > > 2fs wrote: > > I hadn't noticed that Glen Sarvady wrote the review (I do recognize the > name > > now) but my complaint about the "fanzines rave" line wasn't directed so > much > > against this review in particular as against that kind of reading of > lines > > like that. > > > > But don't you think it's really understandable? I know it's risky, and > often inappropriate, to assume autobiography in a pop song, but when the > show fits... Raise the curtain? (Yes, I know: you already corrected your own typo. Anyway...) I think of the song sort of as a gloss on the Joni Mitchell line "Don't it always seem to go / That you don't know what you've got till it's gone." That is, a failure to recognize value until it's...valueless. Or, I suppose, about the "wrong" recognition of value (not getting the "right" kind of fans)? Honestly, I don't think it's one of Scott's better lyrics - kind of a throwaway. But I guess I don't think of Scott often as writing in a strictly autobiographical way - he hardly seems like a "confessional" songwriter. When autobiographical detail works its way into his songs, it always seems slightly transformed into a sort of generalized, often philosophical observation. So it's hard for me to imagine him speaking in his own voice and saying something like "I can't see it paying no bills" - even the double negative is out of character. That said, yes, Scott has often expressed frustration (if not bewilderment) at the way his "populist" impulses find no purchase amongst the populace (along with a bewilder*ing* notion that, that being the case, it's somehow an imposition on his part to put out music), even though he's surely aware that, his considerable melodic gifts notwithstanding, he's hardly writing mindless toetappers and ass-shakers. If he really wanted a hit, he'd dumb it down, pour on the sugar and/or whatever flavor of guitar is in this month, and hire a hot young singer to deliver the thing. Ultimately I think he's disappointed in *the public* that his earnest efforts to communicate somewhat obscure notions in a warped but still recognizable version of a musical vernacular seem to fail so egregiously at engaging anyone but cognoscenti. So, okay: yes, there's an autobiographical *element* to the song...but often (and not so much in Glen S.'s review), what's taken from that is that the song is therefore a *complaint* ("nobody likes me..."), and that somehow that becomes a *theme* of the album (arising from the subtext of having 'retired' for several years). And that just doesn't ring true to me. Anyway: usually with Scott, the correct answer is "both/and" - any interpretation you can work up that seems to make a degree of sense is probably in there, along with the other ones as well. So, for example, there's no reason "Mavis" can't be "about" parenthood, its joys and fears, *and* about post-9/11 hubris and foolishness, *and* about accepting/rejecting the Other, and and and... Cause when love is gone, there's always justice. And when justice is gone, there's always force. And when force is gone, there's always Mom. Hi Mom! - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:09:26 -0800 (PST) From: robert toren Subject: [loud-fans] The Real Sheila live - YouTube link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUlU80B5p34 Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 02:02:43 EST From: CertronC90@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] "What If It Works?" review In a message dated 11/16/2006 8:15:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, outdoorminer@mindspring.com writes: And if you actually *read* the review rather than settling for Mark's gloss (that URL again folks)... I made it clear that my comment was not aimed at the writer. Go back and reread my post, which I posted almost immediatley again SPECIFICALLY to make QUITE CLEAR that I wasn't aiming that comment at Sarvady. If you read the magazine regularly like I, you pick up on what Mike Richmond from Love Tractor called Jeff Clark's and the magazine's constant dominant tone of "getting your negative on." I actually was pleased with Sarvady's review in Stomp and Stammer for the most part, which again is also why I posted almost immediately again SPECIFICALLY to make QUITE CLEAR that I wasn't aiming that comment at Sarvady. In the "News Leak" section for October they list news in alphabetical order, and it reads, after the news about the Arab Strap retirement, "Fiona Apple is a spoiled little bitch." Then, it's on to 4ADs Dead Can Dance release WAKE. I didn't realize that opinion on Apple was news. My mistake. Then I start thinking, "Damn, what a great magazine, and it's FREE. Too bad they act like they're 16." - --Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 02:15:03 EST From: CertronC90@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] "What If It Works?" review In a message dated 11/16/2006 7:14:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bicyclops@gmail.com writes: Larry (as always, pissed off because of Atlanta traffic) Well, my opinion on Atlanta traffic is, it's hell. I've never experienced road rage like I experienced there. I interviewed for teaching jobs in Atlanta about 4 times in the spring and each time down the manners of the Atlanta drivers overall was quite rude. I decided after the fourth interview that I just couldn't live there, even if they did pay about 10,000 dollars more a year in starting salary than here. Then, there was that multi-car pile-up I had barely missed after leaving Jenny and Larry's hotel, and sitting in the same spot for an hour and fifteen minutes.... - --Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 02:21:44 -0500 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] "What If It Works?" review CertronC90@aol.com wrote: > Well, my opinion on Atlanta traffic is, it's hell. I've never experienced > road rage like I experienced there. I interviewed for teaching jobs in > Atlanta about 4 times in the spring and each time down the manners of the Atlanta > drivers overall was quite rude. Driven in NJ much, Mark? heheh... Jen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 01:22:45 -0600 From: "Tom Galczynski" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] "What If It Works?" review Jenny, I completely agree with you re:Attractive Nuisance. I thought it was the LF's best/strongest CD and yes I include PABARAT. When I read that line in the review about AN being listless, I tended to discount the whole review which WAS mainly positive as others have pointed out. Tom > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-loud-fans@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-loud-fans@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Jenny Grover > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 8:35 PM > Cc: loud-fans@smoe.org > Subject: Re: [loud-fans] "What If It Works?" review > > Miles Goosens wrote: > > Glen is one of the nicest people I've ever met, and he's > about as free from "more alt than thou" nose-thumbing as > anyone I know. And if you actually *read* the review rather > than settling for Mark's gloss (that URL again folks)... > > > > > http://www.stompandstammer.com/index.php?option=com_content&ta sk=view&id=653&Itemid=50 > > > > ...it's actually a very positive review, and whether you > agree with the small part of the review that tries out the > "bellyaching" interpretation, that isn't presented as a > negative, just an observation. And you've only got so much > space in a review to talk about anything, so "Mavis = about > parenting" is a valid one-sentence shot and isn't going to > get the umpteen day interpretive workout that it can on > Loud-Fans. Throughout the review, Glen makes a major effort > to give Scott his due historically *and* for what he's > accomplished on this album, and he singles out Anton for > praise more than once. And if he ends up thinking WIIW is > tremendously worthwhile but could have been a little bit > better, well, for what it's worth so do I. > > > > My complaint with the review is the description of Attractive > Nuisance > as "listless"! I know some of you groused about how it doesn't meet > some sort of expectation or other that you had, but I think it's a > beautiful, smart, brilliant album and I thoroughly enjoy it > and the food > for thought it dishes up. > > Jen > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 02:38:08 EST From: CertronC90@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] "What If It Works?" review In a message dated 11/17/2006 2:19:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, sleeveless@zoominternet.net writes: Driven in NJ much, Mark? heheh... Thankfully, no. I had enough of I-95 on my escapade to Maryland. Unf***ingbelievable. It's amazing there aren't people dying of heart attacks ON THE ROAD from the stress of driving 80 in bumper-to-bumper traffic all the time. What was so strange was getting off of 95 and onto 85, and the traffic was slower and more spaced apart, and I was like, thank you, God. I could finally ease my death grip on my Suzuki's steering wheel. I just need a slower pace. I have anxiety disorder as it is, and I don't care for feeling like I'm in a NASCAR race every time I get on the interstate. If I have the power to choose where I live, and what I do, I'm going to go for more relaxed, and that would definitely not be NJ or Atlanta. - --Mark ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V6 #229 *******************************