From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V6 #220 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, November 9 2006 Volume 06 : Number 220 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] John Mellencamp "news" ["Russell Keegstra" ] Re: [loud-fans] John Mellencamp "news" ["Stewart Mason" ] Re: [loud-fans] John Mellencamp "news" [CertronC90@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 08:16:41 -0700 From: "Russell Keegstra" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] John Mellencamp "news" > > > White is the most durable paint color > > Huh? Chrysler had a big problem with white on their pickups a while ago - after a year or two it would start to come off in big sheets. It was kinda cool, unless it was your truck. Russ There is considerable overlap between the intelligence of the smartest bears and the dumbest tourists. Unidentifed biologist, quoted by Richard Wabrek ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 10:57:07 -0800 (PST) From: zoom@muppetlabs.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] John Mellencamp "news" > Jen (black car, tan interior, from the South, living in a place that > thinks it's the South but isn't, but still gets hot, sunny summers) Funny...in a heated argument over racial attitudes, I found myself asserting that I'd been to the South, but my sparring partner replied, at my itinerary, "Okay, those are not really Southern states." I invited him to explain "you're not really in a Southern state" to the collective inhabitants of Virginia, West Virginia, Kentucky, and Missouri. And Kansas, Andy By DAVID ESPO and LIZ SIDOTI, Associated Press Writers 4 minutes ago WASHINGTON - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld stepped down as defense secretary on Wednesday, one day after midterm elections in which opposition to the war in Iraq contributed to heavy Republican losses. President Bush said he would nominate Robert Gates, a former CIA director, to replace Rumsfeld at the Pentagon. Asked whether his announcement signaled a new direction in the war that has claimed the lives of more than 2,800 U.S. troops, Bush said, "Well, there's certainly going to be new leadership at the Pentagon." Bush lavished praise on Rumsfeld, who has spent six stormy years at his post. The president disclosed he met with Gates last Sunday, two days before the elections in which Democrats swept to control of the House and possibly the Senate. Last week, as he campaigned to save the Republican majority, Bush declared that Rumsfeld would remain at the Pentagon through the end of his term. Rumsfeld, 74, was in his second tour of duty as defense chief. He first held the job a generation ago, when he was appointed by President Ford. Whatever confidence Bush retained in Rumsfeld, the Cabinet officer's support in Congress had eroded significantly. Rep. Nancy Pelosi (news, bio, voting record), D-Calif., the House speaker-in-waiting, said at her first postelection news conference that Bush should replace the top civilian leadership at the Pentagon. And Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, who had intervened in the past to shore up Rumsfeld, issued a statement saying, "Washington must now work together in a bipartisan way  Republicans and Democrats  to outline the path to success in Iraq." The Pentagon offered no date for Rumsfeld's departure. Gates, 63, has served as the president of Texas A&M University since August 2002, and as the university's interim dean of the George Bush School of Government and Public Service from 1999 to 2001. The school is home to the presidential library of Bush's father. Gates is a close friend of the Bush family, and particularly the first President Bush. He served as deputy national security adviser from 1989 to 1991 and then as CIA director during the first Iraq war, from 1991 until 1993. Gates joined the CIA in 1966 and is the only agency employee to rise from an entry level job to the 7th floor director's office. He served in the intelligence community for more than a quarter century, under six presidents. Bush has considered Gates for jobs before, including in 2005 when he was searching for a candidate to be the nation's first national intelligence director. His nomination must be confirmed by the Senate. Rep. Ike Skelton (news, bio, voting record), D-Mo., who is expected to chair the House Armed Services Committee next year, said Rumsfeld's resignation "presents an important opportunity for our country to begin a new policy direction in Iraq and in the war on terrorism." He encouraged the Bush administration to take advantage of the fresh start. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:45:17 -0500 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] John Mellencamp "news" zoom@muppetlabs.com wrote: >Funny...in a heated argument over racial attitudes, I found myself >asserting that I'd been to the South, but my sparring partner replied, at >my itinerary, "Okay, those are not really Southern states." > >I invited him to explain "you're not really in a Southern state" to the >collective inhabitants of Virginia, West Virginia, Kentucky, and Missouri. > >And Kansas > Geography and political history both play a part in how people define the South. Many people consider the South to be the Confederacy, of which KY and VA were a part, but not much WV, nor MO, nor KS. People in WV and MO were very much divided over those issues. Geographically speaking, KY and VA are for the most part more southern in situation than WV. Culturally, WV is not all that Southern. They have a twangy accent here, they eat a few of the foods that are considered Southern cuisine, but a lot of that food is also just called "country" food in other parts of the US, or "home cookin'". People here do not eat much of the Southern food I grew up on, and seem to have a general avoidance and suspicion regarding vegetables, particularly fresh ones. There are other cultural diferences, some subtle, others rather obvious. But geographically, WV is NOT in the South, and it does not have Southern climate patterns. MO and KS are very Western in character. My grandmother was from MO and her sister lived in KS for a while, so I have been to both a number of times. The cultural thinking there is different. It's, well... Western. Climatologically, those states follow a plains pattern. So, if you, Andy, just want to draw a straight line across the country and divide the north set from the south set, geographically, then, yes, we could call most of CA a southern state, but culturally it is certainly not a Southern state. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 14:16:52 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: [loud-fans] John Mellencamp "news" On 11/8/06, Jenny Grover wrote: > > zoom@muppetlabs.com wrote: > > >I invited him to explain "you're not really in a Southern state" to the > >collective inhabitants of Virginia, West Virginia, Kentucky, and > Missouri. > > > Geography and political history both play a part in how people define > the South. Many people consider the South to be the Confederacy, of > which KY and VA were a part, but not much WV, nor MO, nor KS. People in > WV and MO were very much divided over those issues. Geographically > speaking, KY and VA are for the most part more southern in situation > than WV. Culturally, WV is not all that Southern. They have a twangy > accent here, they eat a few of the foods that are considered Southern > cuisine, but a lot of that food is also just called "country" food in > other parts of the US, or "home cookin'". People here do not eat much > of the Southern food I grew up on, and seem to have a general avoidance > and suspicion regarding vegetables, particularly fresh ones. There are > other cultural diferences, some subtle, others rather obvious. But > geographically, WV is NOT in the South, and it does not have Southern > climate patterns. This reminds me of discussions about what is and isn't "the Midwest." To my mind, the Dakotas are part of the West, largely considered - but to a lot of folks, they're the Midwest. I think of the Midwest as, essentially, Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin, and probably Missouri, Kansas, and kinda-sorta the Dakotas. Partly that's because most of the Midwestern states I designated have an industrial history compared to the more farming-oriented economies of the border-y states, and I think the cultures of the states reflect that. Not that there's not plenty of farmers here, too. I think part of this is a sense that the Mississippi represents a divide of sorts (of course, half of MN's on the wrong side of that, then). Oh never mind - just continue to ignore me... - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:18:37 -0500 From: "Stewart Mason" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] John Mellencamp "news" Missouri? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:45:05 -0600 From: Francis J H Park Subject: Re: [loud-fans] John Mellencamp "news" I was raised in Virginia, but don't consider myself Southern...I made a very explicit break with being from the South when I went to college in Baltimore...south of the Mason-Dixon Line. I'm a New Hampshire resident and voted as such in the last Presidential election. My informal definition of the South is when the default state of iced tea at a restaurant is sweetened. This doesn't apply to restaurants that ape some aspect of the South (e.g., Cracker Barrel, or a lot of barbeque places). By this definition, West Virginia is not in the south. I had occasion to go to Bluefield, WV (on the border with VA in the SW part of the state) and realized that the iced tea I was getting was unsweetened. By that definition, not in the South, although south of the Mason-Dixon Line. You can probably say the same thing about parts of Florida as well. One of the reasons I was thankful I finally got an assignment out of the South is that now I can start trying to deprogram my older daughter's North Carolina accent that she picked up while we were there. I keep hoping that I'd get an opportunity to go somewhere with a distinctively non-Southern accent, but the Army has no postings in South Boston for someone of my specialty. I have never owned a pickup truck. I did once own a Ford Exploder (which had the Evil Firestone Tires on it, which I subsequently replaced) but it was my wife's daily drive. The Exploder has been replaced by the irrefutable sign of my domestication, a Toyota minivan. The first car I actually owned was a black Honda Accord. This was a bad idea, since I'd be living in central Texas in my first job after college. In July, 1996, when I went out to the field for a week, I decided to leave my entrenching tool (foldable shovel) in the back seat of my car. I came back that Friday to find my e-tool, folded, with some misshapen blob of green plastic melted around it. It was hot enough in my black car with the windows sealed that the green plastic cover of my e-tool had melted. Only in Texas... My current daily driver is a white VW Passat station wagon. In keeping with my desire to be the Most Flaming Iconoclast in the Army, I steadfastly refuse to drive any stereotypically Manly-Man vehicle so long as I stay in the Army. My concession to testosterone on the Passat is a manual transmission. On the other hand, I scoff at my coworkers driving monster trucks because I get 30mpg on the highway. I have to gas up with 91 octane, but I can live with that with the mileage I get from it. Besides, I don't know any other Army officer who'd be caught driving a station wagon. The gold standard of unassuming rides is a Green Beret I know who's been to Afghanistan and Iraq a few times since 2001. When he was an infantryman, he drove a Chevy Spectrum. He traded it in for a Saturn SL2, which he then replaced with a Ford Focus hatchback. What I find really funny is that his wife drives a Nissan Xterra...the Focus is his car. Most special operators I know drive pickup trucks or SUVs. I really admire his fortitude for driving a Ford Focus. When I think of typically Southern music that makes me cringe, I was at Fort Bliss, TX last year before I deployed to Iraq. I was sitting in the post theater waiting for a briefing when I had to sit through a vaguely jingoistic PowerPoint slideshow to the tune of Toby Keith's "Angry American." I found that only mildly less offensive than having to listen to one of the other soldiers there who was talking about "using some of those on the ragheads." I am very, very thankful that such sentiments are the exception rather than the norm in the military these days. I still get my hackles up when I hear other officers say things like "we're going to lose the House and the Senate this year." WE?! Sigh... np: The Cure, "A Forest" - -- Francis J. H. Park Fort Leavenworth, KS, USA http://tbolp.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 18:50:01 -0500 From: "Stewart Mason" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] John Mellencamp "news" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francis J H Park" > The Exploder has been replaced by the irrefutable sign of my > domestication, a Toyota minivan. Which, to be fair, *does* run on depleted uranium. S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 19:17:36 -0500 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] John Mellencamp "news" Francis J H Park wrote: > > > When I think of typically Southern music that makes me cringe, I was > at Fort Bliss, TX last year before I deployed to Iraq. I was sitting > in the post theater waiting for a briefing when I had to sit through a > vaguely jingoistic PowerPoint slideshow to the tune of Toby Keith's > "Angry American." Toby Keith is HUGE here, as is all that pop country stuff. I have never been overexposed wherever I go (like in stores, medical offices...), to so much of that stuff as here. The kids are even into it bigtime here. It drives me up the wall. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:59:25 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: [loud-fans] hey there pitcher better check that batter Thanks again for your baseball-player-named song selections. Curiously, musicians seem very fond of pitchers: of the 17 tracks I've selected so far, 9 are named after pitchers (Warren Spahn, Matt Herges, Catfish Hunter, Walter Johnson, Dock Ellis - twice! Don Newcombe, Bill Lee, and Nolan Ryan). - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:05:22 -0800 (PST) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Mitch! - --- dc wrote: > man, the acoustic guitar solo that kicks in at 1:40 > teleported me > back to the summer of "Big Plans for Everybody." > it's like seeing an > old friend for the first time in ages. You ain't kidding! I LOVE this song. The production is amazing (duh!), the song is cool, and it flips me out that Mitch's voice still sounds like...Mitch's voice! I am sooooo looking forward to this album. Gonna be a really tough call for album of the year.... Gil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 02:51:24 EST From: CertronC90@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] John Mellencamp "news" In a message dated 11/8/2006 7:26:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sleeveless@zoominternet.net writes: Toby Keith is HUGE here, as is all that pop country stuff. I have never been overexposed wherever I go (like in stores, medical offices...), to so much of that stuff as here. The kids are even into it bigtime here. It drives me up the wall. Jen I remember being in the Winn-Dixie going down the beer isle a couple of years back and they had this huge lifesize cardboard likeness of Toby Keith--in leather pants. Oh no, he's not gay. But he does win the award for best mullet of 1993, clearly leaving Alan Jackson in the dust. - --Mark, who heard the new Shins on World Cafe, and it sounds GREAT ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V6 #220 *******************************