From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V6 #205 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Wednesday, October 25 2006 Volume 06 : Number 205 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Loudswap review ["Stewart Mason" ] Re: [loud-fans] Loudswap review [CertronC90@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Loudswap review [CertronC90@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Loudswap review [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [loud-fans] Loudswap review [2fs ] Re: [loud-fans] Loudswap review [2fs ] [loud-fans] Future Swap [Gil Ray ] Re: [loud-fans] Future Swap [Jenny Grover ] [loud-fans] Haters Weepers ["Bradley Skaught" ] [loud-fans] Pixies to record new studio album [Roger Winston ] Re: [loud-fans] Loudswap review [Tim Walters ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 02:25:04 -0400 From: "Stewart Mason" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loudswap review - ----- Original Message ----- From: "2fs" > Because swinging at the easy targets isn't very entertaining... > Whereas > taking slugs at sacred cows might be revealing: I mean, to take > something I > was listening to earlier today, if someone just cannot abide the > first two > Talking Heads albums, it'd take a lot of persuading for me to see > that point > of view. Well, I wouldn't say "cannot abide," but it strikes me as self-evident that '77 is the weakest Talking Heads album up to but not including TRUE STORIES. It's not so much the songs as it is the terrible, inappropriate production. I've sometimes wondered what it would have sounded like if Richard Gottehrer (who was seemingly required by law to produce the first albums of 50% of the US new wave acts) had done the first Talking Heads album: it wouldn't have sounded like the Eno records, nor should it, but I think he would have gone for a more "live," simpler sound that would have been effective for those songs. As it stands, I just find the production distracting. I find myself with a bit of time to kill, so, quickly, another CD review. This one's from John Bartlett, and I'm chagrined to report that the date on the disc is, um, summer 2004. I've been busy. Anyway, songs I hadn't heard before are asterisked. *1. "Talk Talk Talk" -- The Ordinary Boys Straightforward power-poppy stuff. *2. "Wicked Conversation" -- Easterly More in the moody-jangly arena, along the lines of the Pernice Brothers. One of my favorites on the album. *3. "Flaming Hell Blake" -- The Samurai Seven I'm afraid it doesn't live up to the title or band name. *4. "They Don't Know" -- Kenny Howes and the Yeah Mildly appalling, actually. *5. "Wash in the Rain" -- The Bees These guys have been under my radar even though they're regularly mentioned as just the sort of thing I'd like. (If I'm not mistaken, this is the band that's known as A Band of Bees in the States for obscure reasons.) Very much in the Beta Band / Badly Drawn Boy ballpark, but without those acts' tendencies for self-indulgence, at least based on this song. Quite good. *6. "I Don't Want To Be Here" -- Andy Partridge I'm assuming this is from one of those FUZZY WARBLES albums. As much as I like this song, I can't help but think that as excited as I would have been in high school to hear of a multi-volume set of demos and rarities by Andy Partridge, who from like eighth grade on was a hero of mine...I just don't see myself ever investing the time and money to listen to all of that stuff. *7. "Payback" -- Eytan Mirsky *8. "Fanciful Eyes" -- Hutch Perfectly nice jangly guitar stuff. Actually, the Hutch song verges on great, but it's just a little too mid-tempo-pleasant, like it can't get up enough energy to really be exciting. 9. "Achtung" -- Shriekback JAM SCIENCE is a transitional album -- not as freeform and weird as the early stuff, not as straightforward as the later pure dance records -- but I've always kinda liked it. This is my favorite song from this album by some distance. 10. "Robot" -- The Futureheads I've always liked this album. Sure, it sounds like a dozen different vintage '80s bands (most notably the Jam on this one, although the jam never did anything as synthy as this), but the songs are great, and that counts for more than innovation most of the time. *11. "Tending the Wrong Grave For 23 Years" -- Half Man Half Biscuit God bless these Liverpudlian bastards. This is from their quieter, folky side instead of the side that sounds like a far more chipper version of the Fall. 12. "Worldwide Pantisocracy" -- Preoccupied Pipers One of K.C. Bowman's singular epics. *13. "Any Requests" -- The Solipsistics Hmm, I have never heard any Solipsistics song before that did anything for me, but this completely atypical track, played entirely by a full orchestra led by a farting tuba, is just fantastic. Reminds me hugely of the Negro Problem, which is a good thing. *14. "Cherry Pie" -- The Dollybirds I've heard *of* the Dollybirds, but this is my first exposure. Peppy, cute little tune...not the Warrant song, for better or worse. *15. "Deliverance" -- You Am I 16. "Got To Tell Her" -- The 45s Not a lot to say about either of these, although I liked the 45s track quite a bit more. *17. "Making Me Go On" -- Kelly's Heels Who is this? MAN, this guy sounds Nick Lowe! 18. "Taxman" -- The Beatles Well, what can you say? *19. "Alone Again" -- Second Saturday The difference is in the details: I've heard so many power pop songs that all sound exactly like this, but this song is cleverly arranged, dynamic and fun to listen to in a way that way too much similar stuff isn't. 20. "Up the Devil's Pay" -- The Old 97s A little more jaunty than Old 97s often got, and all the better for it. 21. "Emily" -- Ed James Never really got the fuss over this guy, such as it was. *22. "Whispered News" -- The Waking Hours Not a Let's Active cover, which might have been kinda cool, but an uber-jangle original with a great chorus. *23. "Faster" -- Receiver Kind of anonymous, but pleasant. 24. "Hounds of Love" -- The Futureheads See #10. Sorry it took so long, John! S ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 05:58:10 EDT From: CertronC90@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loudswap review In a message dated 10/24/2006 3:33:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, craigtorso@verizon.net writes: Well, I wouldn't say "cannot abide," but it strikes me as self-evident that '77 is the weakest Talking Heads album up to but not including TRUE STORIES. It's not so much the songs as it is the terrible, inappropriate production. The first two TH records are my favorites (as they are the only ones I bought the Dual Disc reissues of). Jerry Harrison comments on the Dual Disc: 77 presented quite a challenge. It was recorded on a 16-track recorder with only four tracks devoted to drums. Some of the songs only consisted of eight tracks; yet the songs still adapted well to 5.1 surround remix. This album did not lend itself to events taking place in the rear, or to much movement; rather, the songs just occupied a larger sound stage. I've always liked the sound of 77. It's my fave TH record. It sounds flat and clean, like the Feelies album CRAZY RHYTHMS (and wasn't that recorded directly to the board?). I think it's appropriate for the record and was probably a cleansing of the ear palate for record store clerks of the era who had to listen to the first Foreigner album and Boston all the time. I think the production matches the attitude I think the band was trying to project at the time. Or, maybe, like most everything else, it was about money. Ricky Wilson's guitar style was born out of necessity. He didn't have the money to replace his strings. Maybe that was the best the band could do at the time with the money they had. And Bob Seger makes me want to kill. I'd like to run over him in a Chevy Silverado while he sings "Like a Rock." - --Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 06:54:22 EDT From: CertronC90@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loudswap review In a message dated 10/24/2006 3:33:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, craigtorso@verizon.net writes: Well, I wouldn't say "cannot abide," but it strikes me as self-evident that '77 is the weakest Talking Heads album up to but not including TRUE STORIES. It's not so much the songs as it is the terrible, inappropriate production. I should've put this in with my last post, but I had to throw this in in the record's defense. Hilly Kristal, owner of CBGB, writes in the 77 reissue: It's not easy for me to separate, in my mind, the memories of their live music, but I remember I was glad the production didn't get in the way of the band; it felt natural. I believe they were always careful to make all their recordings fresh sounding. What strikes me the most about the songwriting is how egocentric it is. Byrne was really inside himself at that time. Maturity changed his songwriting a great deal. He went from "I" songs ("The Book I Read") to "We" songs ("Road to Nowhere"). I suppose I liked him better immature. That doesn't speak well of me, but perhaps it explains why I like teaching elementary school kids. I, however, have never been able to get into the African influenced TH stuff. I can't listen to REMAIN IN LIGHT all the way through. I prefer the more vanilla, white boy TH stuff. "In the days when you were hopelessly poor, I just liked you more," - --Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 11:00:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loudswap review On Tue, 24 Oct 2006, Stewart Mason wrote: > *6. "I Don't Want To Be Here" -- Andy Partridge > > I'm assuming this is from one of those FUZZY WARBLES albums. As much as > I like this song, I can't help but think that as excited as I would have > been in high school to hear of a multi-volume set of demos and rarities > by Andy Partridge, who from like eighth grade on was a hero of mine...I > just don't see myself ever investing the time and money to listen to all > of that stuff. The Fuzzy Warbles discs that I've picked up reminded me much more of what I loved about XTC in high school than, say, recent XTC albums have. The box set still seems like a little much for me, but if you see one of the single CDs for $6 at Newbury Comics (as I did), give it a shot. > 10. "Robot" -- The Futureheads > > I've always liked this album. Sure, it sounds like a dozen different > vintage '80s bands (most notably the Jam on this one, although the jam > never did anything as synthy as this), but the songs are great, and that > counts for more than innovation most of the time. At some point, I discovered that all the post-punk revival albums I really liked-- the first albums by the Futureheads, Bloc Party and Maximo Park-- were all produced by the same guy, Paul Epworth (aka Phones). Second Futureheads album, with a different producer: no fun. Remixes by Epworth of songs I don't otherwise care about: excellent. Therefore, science has proven that despite what I thought, I'm not that enamored of the new British retro. I just like Paul Epworth. a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 21:25:12 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loudswap review On 10/24/06, Stewart Mason wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "2fs" > > > > was listening to earlier today, if someone just cannot abide the > > first two > > Talking Heads albums, it'd take a lot of persuading for me to see > > that point > > of view. > > Well, I wouldn't say "cannot abide," but it strikes me as self-evident > that '77 is the weakest Talking Heads album up to but not including > TRUE STORIES. It's not so much the songs as it is the terrible, > inappropriate production. I've sometimes wondered what it would have > sounded like if Richard Gottehrer (who was seemingly required by law > to produce the first albums of 50% of the US new wave acts) had done > the first Talking Heads album: it wouldn't have sounded like the Eno > records, nor should it, but I think he would have gone for a more > "live," simpler sound that would have been effective for those songs. > As it stands, I just find the production distracting. Hmm. My first reaction to this was, wait - the production *is* "'live,' simpler sound." But I realized I hadn't listened to the CD for a while (what I'd actually been listening to was a collection of demos and a live show from '78 - thanks Joe!), so I pulled it out and listened to it in the car today. And what's interesting is that I'd sort of forgotten, but the album is kind of schizophrenic in terms of production and arranging. In fact, most of the songs are presented fairly straightforward: relatively dry sound with just a little bit of reverb, the basic quartet with only the occasional guitar or keyboard overdub, etc. But: "Uh-Oh, Love Comes to Town," "Happy Day," "First Week/Last Week...Carefree," and (to an extent) "Don't Worry About the Government" are not. Those tracks feature various outside overdubs - ranging from steel drums (or synthetic equivalent) to saxophones to an array of effects and fussy sounds - and I'd pretty much forgotten that fact. "Love" only has the steel drum things - annoying, but minimally present. For both "Happy Day" and "Government," I think the production works pretty well - although I've always felt there's something too fussy about the keyboards on "Government," even though it's such a good song it works anyway. But those saxophones...ick. And even though "Happy Day" happens to be one of my favorites (I'd also forgotten how odd some early Talking Heads songs are, harmonically: that song has nearly as many, and nearly as unexpected, chords as a Scott Miller song), it doesn't seem to be one of their more popular songs - and the remaining two (other than "Government") are arguably nearly forgotten as well. At least, if those sorts of things are what you're talking about, Stewart, I see your point...but I'd argue that much of the rest of the album is pretty cleanly produced. Not sure why the arranging-mania on those other tracks (or whether it was a band decision and the producer didn't have the taste or guts to say, uh, no). Anyway, I'm curious what sorts of things you're thinking of regarding the production. (That live recording is up, I think for a few more days, at jefitoblog.com. It's actually from a radio broadcast, so pretty clean sound, although a bit weak in spots.) I find myself with a bit of time to kill, so, quickly, another CD > review. This one's from John Bartlett, and I'm chagrined to report > that the date on the disc is, um, summer 2004. I've been busy. > > Anyway, songs I hadn't heard before are asterisked. > > *1. "Talk Talk Talk" -- The Ordinary Boys > > Straightforward power-poppy stuff. > > *2. "Wicked Conversation" -- Easterly > > More in the moody-jangly arena, along the lines of the Pernice > Brothers. One of my favorites on the album. > > *3. "Flaming Hell Blake" -- The Samurai Seven > > I'm afraid it doesn't live up to the title or band name. > > *4. "They Don't Know" -- Kenny Howes and the Yeah > > Mildly appalling, actually. > > *5. "Wash in the Rain" -- The Bees > > These guys have been under my radar even though they're regularly > mentioned as just the sort of thing I'd like. (If I'm not mistaken, > this is the band that's known as A Band of Bees in the States for > obscure reasons.) Very much in the Beta Band / Badly Drawn Boy > ballpark, but without those acts' tendencies for self-indulgence, at > least based on this song. Quite good. > > *6. "I Don't Want To Be Here" -- Andy Partridge > > I'm assuming this is from one of those FUZZY WARBLES albums. As much > as I like this song, I can't help but think that as excited as I would > have been in high school to hear of a multi-volume set of demos and > rarities by Andy Partridge, who from like eighth grade on was a hero > of mine...I just don't see myself ever investing the time and money to > listen to all of that stuff. > > *7. "Payback" -- Eytan Mirsky > *8. "Fanciful Eyes" -- Hutch > > Perfectly nice jangly guitar stuff. Actually, the Hutch song verges > on great, but it's just a little too mid-tempo-pleasant, like it can't > get up enough energy to really be exciting. > > 9. "Achtung" -- Shriekback > > JAM SCIENCE is a transitional album -- not as freeform and weird as > the early stuff, not as straightforward as the later pure dance > records -- but I've always kinda liked it. This is my favorite song > from this album by some distance. > > 10. "Robot" -- The Futureheads > > I've always liked this album. Sure, it sounds like a dozen different > vintage '80s bands (most notably the Jam on this one, although the jam > never did anything as synthy as this), but the songs are great, and > that counts for more than innovation most of the time. > > *11. "Tending the Wrong Grave For 23 Years" -- Half Man Half Biscuit > > God bless these Liverpudlian bastards. This is from their quieter, > folky side instead of the side that sounds like a far more chipper > version of the Fall. > > 12. "Worldwide Pantisocracy" -- Preoccupied Pipers > > One of K.C. Bowman's singular epics. > > *13. "Any Requests" -- The Solipsistics > > Hmm, I have never heard any Solipsistics song before that did anything > for me, but this completely atypical track, played entirely by a full > orchestra led by a farting tuba, is just fantastic. Reminds me hugely > of the Negro Problem, which is a good thing. > > *14. "Cherry Pie" -- The Dollybirds > > I've heard *of* the Dollybirds, but this is my first exposure. Peppy, > cute little tune...not the Warrant song, for better or worse. > > *15. "Deliverance" -- You Am I > 16. "Got To Tell Her" -- The 45s > > Not a lot to say about either of these, although I liked the 45s track > quite a bit more. > > *17. "Making Me Go On" -- Kelly's Heels > > Who is this? MAN, this guy sounds Nick Lowe! > > 18. "Taxman" -- The Beatles > > Well, what can you say? > > *19. "Alone Again" -- Second Saturday > > The difference is in the details: I've heard so many power pop songs > that all sound exactly like this, but this song is cleverly arranged, > dynamic and fun to listen to in a way that way too much similar stuff > isn't. > > 20. "Up the Devil's Pay" -- The Old 97s > > A little more jaunty than Old 97s often got, and all the better for > it. > > 21. "Emily" -- Ed James > > Never really got the fuss over this guy, such as it was. > > *22. "Whispered News" -- The Waking Hours > > Not a Let's Active cover, which might have been kinda cool, but an > uber-jangle original with a great chorus. > > *23. "Faster" -- Receiver > > Kind of anonymous, but pleasant. > > 24. "Hounds of Love" -- The Futureheads > > See #10. > > Sorry it took so long, John! > > S > - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 21:33:52 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loudswap review On 10/24/06, CertronC90@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 10/24/2006 3:33:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > c > What strikes me the most about the songwriting is how egocentric it is. > Byrne was really inside himself at that time. Maturity changed his > songwriting > a great deal. He went from "I" songs ("The Book I Read") to "We" songs > ("Road to Nowhere"). I suppose I liked him better immature. That > doesn't speak > well of me, but perhaps it explains why I like teaching elementary school > kids. Funny - I've never felt those songs were egocentric (in the sense of being "about" David Byrne) at all: they seem clearly to be character songs. In fact, early David Byrne songs almost always seem to be about some guy who cares either far too much about little things or far too little about major things; a sort of emotional dyslexia that Byrne seems to have found intriguing, as a new way of looking at the world. I, however, have never been able to get into the African influenced TH > stuff. I can't listen to REMAIN IN LIGHT all the way through. I prefer > the more > vanilla, white boy TH stuff. Since one thing I like about early TH is (with the exceptions mentioned in my post a few minutes ago) the simplicity and transparency of sound and arrangement that allows you to hear exactly what each player is doing at any given moment (and in their basic two-guitars-bass-drums* versions, those songs are brilliantly arranged), it's certainly a difference when the sound is so densely arranged that you can't hear parts as individual parts. But I think the structural principle is the same: the parts interlock to form a whole. And that, I think, is one reason the band was attracted to African music...because it often does that. And give a listen to those early records again: the basslines in particular are pure Motown with the occasional Stax/Volt influence. The band was never all that vanilla...well, okay: Byrne practically invented the spastic white nerdy vocal style. (See also: David Thomas.) * I'm not entirely persuaded by Harrison's keyboard parts until _Fear of Music_...and then, I'm not sure if they're his or Eno's... - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 19:54:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: [loud-fans] Future Swap Who needs the Talking Heads when you have....me. Cool!!!!! Gil http://www.125records.com/news.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 23:48:29 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Future Swap Gil Ray wrote: >Who needs the Talking Heads when you have....me. >Cool!!!!! >Gil > >http://www.125records.com/news.html > > > Woo-hoo!! Yea--ah! Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 21:49:51 -0700 From: "Bradley Skaught" Subject: [loud-fans] Haters Weepers > C'mon, haters: out with it! There are a handful of sacred cows I don't really like (Doors, CCR, Zeppelin), but there's one i'm almost ashamed of. First off, I absolutely _love_ soul and gospel music--listen to it all the time, am always searching for more, never get tired of it. So, I am really emabrassed to admit that I don't like Aretha Franklin. Worse: I don't like her _voice_! There is something about the way she sings that I don't like. I can't think of any classic soul artist of her stature that I dislike (although I tend to like Otis Redding a little less than some, but I still think he's great.) That's probably the most extreme one I can think of. On the flip side, i'm always coming around to artists I didn't like before. Recently, I've found that I really like The Ramones after decades of not liking them at all. xo, B ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 23:03:58 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: [loud-fans] Pixies to record new studio album At last! http://www.nme.com/news/pixies/24809 Latre. --Rog - -- FlasshePoint, yet another blog among millions: http://www.flasshe.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 00:11:50 -0400 From: "Stewart Mason" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loudswap review - ----- Original Message ----- From: "2fs" > But: "Uh-Oh, Love Comes to Town," "Happy Day," "First Week/Last > Week...Carefree," and (to an extent) "Don't Worry About the > Government" are > not. Those tracks feature various outside overdubs - ranging from > steel > drums (or synthetic equivalent) to saxophones to an array of effects > and > fussy sounds - and I'd pretty much forgotten that fact. "Love" only > has the > steel drum things - annoying, but minimally present. For both "Happy > Day" > and "Government," I think the production works pretty well - > although I've > always felt there's something too fussy about the keyboards on > "Government," > even though it's such a good song it works anyway. But those > saxophones...ick. > > At least, if those sorts of things are what you're talking about, > Stewart, I > see your point...but I'd argue that much of the rest of the album is > pretty > cleanly produced. Not sure why the arranging-mania on those other > tracks (or > whether it was a band decision and the producer didn't have the > taste or > guts to say, uh, no). Those are precisely the things that bug me the most, and unless I'm misremembering what I've read, the problem was that the producer, Tony Bongiovi, was trying to make your average state-of-'77 mainstream rock record. (To give you some idea where he was coming from, Bongiovi was also the producer behind that disco version of the STAR WARS theme by Meco.) The problem was, the results sound half-assed to me. If the band had held firm and made a completely stripped-down record, that would have been fine. Conversely, if Bongiovi had been given free rein and he'd made a record that sounded like...I dunno, "Baker Street"...there are ways in which that would have sounded cool too. But as it stands, it just sounds kind of like a mess to me. S ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 22:51:15 -0700 From: Tim Walters Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Loudswap review On Oct 24, 2006, at 9:11 PM, Stewart Mason wrote: > > the problem was that the producer, Tony Bongiovi, was trying to > make your average state-of-'77 mainstream rock record. Given that the Heads were covering "1-2-3 Red Light" around that time, I wouldn't be surprised if they were willing, perhaps even eager, to raise the cheese factor. And I would argue that "Love Comes To A Building On Fire" proves that it could work. ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V6 #205 *******************************