From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V5 #223 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, September 29 2005 Volume 05 : Number 223 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] test test.... [JRT456@aol.com] Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] test test.... [Steve Schiavo ] [loud-fans] Test Test... three days later [Phil Fleming ] Re: [loud-fans] test test.... [Gil Ray ] Re: [loud-fans] test test.... [LeftyZ@aol.com] Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] test test.... [JRT456@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 03:12:16 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] test test.... In a message dated 9/28/05 2:57:33 AM, steveschiavo@mac.com writes: > The honest argument (the geopolitical one) was there to justify an > invasion of Iraq, but they were unwilling to make it, knowing that > the American public wouldn't support it. Thus WMD. > It's easy to find a copy of Bush's final address to the U.N. before the invasion. You'll notice that WMD takes up the least time of his three major points. Hint: It was called Operation Iraqi Freedom...and not in the sense of those "freedom fighters" that Cindy Sheehan admires (although I doubt she'd enjoy living amongst their idea of freedom). And if Bush was lying about WMD, then so was Clinton and Kennedy and just about every Democrat during the past 15 years. Everybody here should look into The Rodnees. It's amazing stuff, although Stew probably isn't too impressed. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:47:31 -0500 From: Steve Schiavo Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] test test.... On Sep 28, 2005, at 2:12 AM, JRT456@aol.com wrote: > And if Bush was lying about WMD, then so > was Clinton and Kennedy and just about every Democrat during the > past 15 > years. Aluminum tubes and yellow cake, anyone? Both called into question by people *within* the government but still used as justification. Short of having good proof that Iraq would have nukes within a couple of years, the WMD thing, which the Bush administration used to gin up public support, was just a sham. If they had wanted to be honest, regime change would have been what they talked about 90% of the time, because that is what Iraq is all about. I wonder, after the Bushies finish democratizing Iraq, where they will turn their gaze. Will it be a country that ruled by a tyrant, but has no geopolitical importance? I forgot, in my last post, to advise Mr. Park to keep his head down. - - Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:30:19 -0400 From: "Stefaan Hurts" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] test test.... On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 03:12:16 EDT, JRT456@aol.com said: > Hint: It was called Operation Iraqi Freedom... Still waiting for Operation Health Insurance For The 40 Million Americans Who Don't Have Any... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:36:34 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] test test.... In a message dated 9/28/05 10:12:33 AM, steveschiavo@mac.com writes: > > Aluminum tubes and yellow cake, anyone? Both called into question by > people *within* the government but still used as justification. > It's the laziest kind of hindsight to pretend that the concern about aluminum tubes was unwarranted. Saddam brought that attention upon himself. And if you'd paid closer attention, you'd have noticed back in the summer of 2004 when a Senate Intelligence Committee report showed Democrats effectively conceding the yellowcake issue. Joseph Wilson is proven to be a liar. (In fact, it was just about that time that the Kerry campaign dumped him.) Still, I appreciate the nostalgic allure of bringing the issue up. It's so carefree, like people who invoke the "40 Million Americans Who Don't Have Health Care" as a passing mention. Dirk Hamilton is getting reissued in Italy, with ALIAS I the more vital of the two discs currently available. MEET ME AT THE CRUX should be out by the end of the year, too. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:48:53 -0400 From: "Stefaan Hurts" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] test test.... On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:36:34 EDT, JRT456@aol.com said: > It's so carefree, like people who invoke the "40 Million > Americans Who Don't Have Health Care" as a passing mention. No, wait, you've got it wrong, it's those 40 million Americans that are "carefree"... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:25:01 -0500 From: Steve Schiavo Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] test test.... On Sep 28, 2005, at 12:36 PM, JRT456@aol.com wrote: > Senate Intelligence Committee report showed Democrats effectively > conceding > the yellowcake issue. And the point is...? > Joseph Wilson is proven to be a liar. JR, you have such a firm grasp of the Bushie talking points. You should ask for a high position in the administration, or at least a Medal of Freedom. - - Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:09:47 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] test test.... In a message dated 9/28/05 2:21:49 PM, stef_hurts@fastmail.fm writes: > No, wait, you've got it wrong, it's those 40 million Americans that are > "carefree"... > Closer to 41 million Americans, and what do you propose we do about it? Pop fans, of course, can prepare for the future by saving their money and not buying the latest faceless CD from Acid House Kings. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:32:56 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] test test.... In a message dated 9/28/05 3:16:40 PM, steveschiavo@mac.com writes: > JR, you have such a firm grasp of the Bushie talking points. You > should ask for a high position in the administration, or at least a > Medal of Freedom. > They're not talking points. I'm citing the truth that emerges after long (and often unnecessary) Congressional investigations, and you don't seem capable of disputing them. My point about yellowcake, incidentally, is that you've been proven wrong in your concerns. Of course, I understand you not knowing anything about that. It's not as if the New York Times wrote any articles about Joseph Wilson after he was exposed. They just conveniently forgot all about him. The new Nada Surf is reliably good, but if you're saving up for health insurance, you might want to consider that it's kinda formulaic. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:37:33 -0500 From: "Keegstra, Russell " Subject: Re: [loud-fans] test test.... The JRT: >They're not talking points. You've convinced me. This is the best of all possible administrations. They have strengthened our credibility in the world by treating people in their charge with the utmost respect. They have ensured that Congress has cut all the fat from the budget, and they are keeping a tight rein on spending. The Government is now smaller and less intrusive than it has ever been. They conduct business in an open and transparent manner, and fully and fairly investigate any complaints or issues that may arise. They only bring in the most qualified individuals to fill positions of authority. I see that now. Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:51:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Fleming Subject: [loud-fans] Test Test... three days later Jeezus... what the hell did I start just by typing those two words! Phil F. NP... about to be OK GO - OH NO __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:43:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Test Test... three days later - --- Phil Fleming wrote: > Jeezus... what the hell did I start just by typing > those two words! Yeah! Way to go, Phil! (just kidding..this is my fault, but I gotta say that it's nice seeing SOMETHING on this list!) Gil __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:55:59 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] test test.... In a message dated 9/28/05 5:01:58 PM, RK9@tmw.com writes: > > You've convinced me. This is the best of all possible administrations. > Actually, I was just trying to help out a guy who was stuck on stupid...or, more accurately, stuck on the discredited DNC/mass media talking points of mid-2004. Still, glad you're so excited about the Bush administration. Personally, they're a little too much to the Left for my taste. On the plus side, I'll gladly blame Bush for the current Terry Reid revival. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 20:59:00 -0500 From: Steve Schiavo Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] test test.... On Sep 28, 2005, at 2:32 PM, JRT456@aol.com wrote: > My point about yellowcake, incidentally, is that you've > been proven wrong in your concerns. Actually, I am aware of people attacking Mr. Wilson's credibility. But he's still more credible than anybody in this or the previous Bush II administration. But the question was if Bush lied to get support for the invasion of Iraq. I think the answer to that is yes, without a doubt. It was clear from the moment he first brought it up that there would be an invasion, and everything from that point until the order was given was nothing more than a thin attempt at justification. If the Bushies were just strait shooting right-wingers, I'd give them credit for it. But I don't think there is anything that they say that can be taken at face value. Because they care much more about power and the institution of their prejudices as law than about anything else. But if your desire for a flat tax (or whatever) makes you blind to their many faults, then I'm not going to worry about it. - - Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 22:19:30 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] test test.... In a message dated 9/28/05 10:06:57 PM, steveschiavo@mac.com writes: > Actually, I am aware of people attacking Mr. Wilson's credibility. > But he's still more credible than anybody in this or the previous > Bush II administration. > That must be why the Kerry campaign dumped Wilson (including his website presence) right after the Democrats in a Congressional investigation signed off on calling him a liar. That's also why Wilson abruptly disappeared after months of beng the darling of the NY Times and all the network news shows. Sorry, but anybody defending Wilson now has entered into the realm of the delusional. Also, you're welcome to cite a supposed lie about Iraq from Bush that wasn't corresponded by concerns expressed by Democrats in the past 15 years. If Bush lied to invade Iraq, he was sure clever to get the Clinton administration to go along with the plot back in the '90s. Or does Karl Rove get the credit? You know, just because Mike Doughty's out touring with jam bands doesn't mean that he hasn't become an ambitious pop guy with echoes of Peter Gabriel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:46:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] test test.... - --- Steve Schiavo wrote: > If the Bushies were just strait shooting > right-wingers, I'd give them > credit for it. But I don't think there is anything > that they say > that can be taken at face value. Because they care > much more about > power and the institution of their prejudices as law > than about > anything else. Well said, Steve. There is no way in hell that the Bush administration gives a crap whether or not the Iraqi people have "freedom". They most certainly DO care if Haliburton and Bechtel get the contracts to rebuild a country we have now destroyed twice. (Don't you know Haliburton was lickin' their chops when New Orleans went down - "Cool! More rebuilding and less gunfire!") They also have a thing against science, but I'm not smart enough to comment here, other than, well, that ignoring it and at times REWRITING it is stupid and SO self-serving. $$$$$$$$$$ They are also hideously righteous in their approach to birth control, especially in third world countries...abstinence or bust! I could go on, but won't. I'm sure JR will have plenty to say, and that's ok. Frankly I'm glad that he's still here, and Steve, and Phil, and Robert and everyone else. It's been a depressing several weeks, and I really hope the folks along the Gulf Coast can somehow survive all of this. Like most people, I get caught up in the televised moment.... and just lose it. So much wasted resources..... Gil __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:55:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: [loud-fans] test test.... - --- Francis J H Park wrote: > Delurking... > > When I was a young lieutenant, my troop commander > would sometimes prompt > me for a Situation Report, or SITREP for short when > he hadn't heard from > me much on the net. > > Gil, that is one hell of a SITREP. Thanks! I missed my calling! > 1. Congratulations on the newlyweds! Will there be > pix? Don't know yet, but I'll check in to it. > And not least, it would seem that my number is > finally up. I got an > alert order to prepare for movement to Iraq to > augment the 101st > Airborne Division. They need a strategist, and I > gave up being a tanker > (or more properly, an armored cavalryman) to be a > strategic plans and > policy officer about a year ago. I should be > deploying in about a month > or so, maybe for six, maybe for 12 months. Don't > know yet. Since I > haven't been deployed since 1997, the law of > probability has caught up. > The interesting thing is that I'll be one of the > first (if not the > first) strategic planners to deploy with a division > headquarters. Good heavens! Please! Work hard on those "strategeries" and get everyone back soon! ;-) ...seriously, be safe and get back soon, Francis. Good luck! Gil ______________________________________________________ Yahoo! for Good Donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:46:37 EDT From: LeftyZ@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] test test.... In a message dated 9/28/2005 8:03:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, ggilray@yahoo.com writes: Good heavens! Please! Work hard on those "strategeries" and get everyone back soon! ;-) ...seriously, be safe and get back soon, Francis. Good luck! Ditto from me Francis. Take care, Left ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 00:10:24 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [loud-fans] test test.... In a message dated 9/28/05 10:52:56 PM, ggilray@yahoo.com writes: > I could go on, but won't. I'm sure JR will have plenty > to say, and that's ok. > Actually, I'll just note that you forgot to include the part where Bush plans to help the Zionists steal world hegemony so they can openly indulge in drinking the blood of children. ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V5 #223 *******************************