From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V5 #187 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Tuesday, August 2 2005 Volume 05 : Number 187 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Bad Songs [Jack Lippold ] [loud-fans] Re: Histrionics of the World, Part 1; formerly Bad Songs [Jef] [loud-fans] Histrionics of the World, Part 1; formerly Bad Songs [Jack Li] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Histrionics of the World, Part 1; formerly Bad Songs [Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Bad Songs I meant regardless of who does be it Don McLean or Madonna, my opinion of the song still stands. >>Then there are the songs like "American Pie" (whoever does it) > >Don McLean ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 22:00:30 -0500 From: Jeff Subject: [loud-fans] Re: Histrionics of the World, Part 1; formerly Bad Songs On 8/1/05, Jack Lippold wrote: > >I think I know what the first-quoted writer is talking about, > >regarding "Pinano Man". Joel seems, to me, to be attempting a sort > >of musical equivalent of "Winesburg, Ohio" -- that is, a timeless, > >deeply moving portrayal of a collection of sad, lonely, unhappy > >people who can't get their crap together -- but in the end it's just > >a pop ballad and little more. His florid lyrics indicate a tippy-toe > >reaching for poetic profundity (the guy "making love to his tonic and > >gin", the "real-estate novelist" -- sheesh), but instead of Sherwood > >Anderson, it's more like Sherwin Williams. > > Exactly! > That is the sort of deliberate, yet detached attempt to be "powerful". Uh, I'm in the odd position of (slightly) defending Billy Joel here. Or at least, the abstract notion of whatever it was Joel was trying to do. One problem, the first writer (sorry, forgot who) says that Joel is "attempting a sort of...timeless, deeply moving portrayal" etc. You acknowledge that that's your impression - fair enough - but if it doesn't work, why not assume that, maybe, your impression is wrong? Maybe Joel was just trying to write "a pop ballad and little more." Reminds me of a critic who reviewed some band by saying something like "So-and-so's vocals try to be sexy but end up being annoying." And how did the critic know the vocalist was "trying" to be sexy? Did the vocalist state, in interviews, that that's what he was going for? No - the critic was annoyed by the vocals, tried to figure out why, and the closest he could come was a failed attempt at sexiness. (I can't recall which band this was written about - but I do remember it was a band whose music I knew, and that there wasn't any obvious "trying to be sexy" in the lyrical content. It had to do with a breathiness of sound, I think.) Anywway: I wouldn't say that "making love to his tonic and gin" or "real-estate novelist" are high-water marks in lyrical metaphor - but I'm willing to wager that, whoever your favorite writer is, s/he probably has a few lines that are, in fact, "tippy-toe reaching for poetic profundity." Me, I'd rather have someone reach than not even bother to try, and write Limp Bizkit songs instead - or even the J. Mascis approach, where lyrics are entirely catchphrases gleaned from the 800 most basic vocabulary items in the language (just look at Dinosaur Jr.'s album and song titles). While I'm at it: "catchphrase" is an interesting word, as it has *six* consecutive consonants. I don't think there's another standard English word (i.e., not counting imitative explanations like "brrrrrrrrr!") with more consecutive consonants. I think I'll write a Dinosaur Jr. song: Hangin 'round Just bummin' round It's so cool when nothin's happ'nin' Nevermind Ain't got the time Don't bother me, my mind's just nappin' (chorus) Upside down Inside out Tryin' to see which way I'm goin' Every night Things don't seem right But it's nothin' that's worth knowin' (guitar solo) Do you know If I should go Some dumb road where I can follow But who cares It ain't anywhere No fuckin' reason I could swallow (chorus) (guitar solo) - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 21:25:38 -0500 From: Jack Lippold Subject: [loud-fans] Histrionics of the World, Part 1; formerly Bad Songs >I think I know what the first-quoted writer is talking about, >regarding "Pinano Man". Joel seems, to me, to be attempting a sort >of musical equivalent of "Winesburg, Ohio" -- that is, a timeless, >deeply moving portrayal of a collection of sad, lonely, unhappy >people who can't get their crap together -- but in the end it's just >a pop ballad and little more. His florid lyrics indicate a tippy-toe >reaching for poetic profundity (the guy "making love to his tonic and >gin", the "real-estate novelist" -- sheesh), but instead of Sherwood >Anderson, it's more like Sherwin Williams. Exactly! That is the sort of deliberate, yet detached attempt to be "powerful". A more recent example is "I've been down, been to the bottom of every bottle" from Nickelback's "How You Remind Me". ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 00:30:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Histrionics of the World, Part 1; formerly Bad Songs On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, Jeff wrote: > While I'm at it: "catchphrase" is an interesting word, as it has *six* > consecutive consonants. I don't think there's another standard English > word (i.e., not counting imitative explanations like "brrrrrrrrr!") with > more consecutive consonants. The Scrabble dictionary agrees with you (listing BORSCHTS, LATCHSTRING, TSKTSK and WELTSCHMERZ as the only ones tied for six, some of which I realize many people might not accept as words). I suppose it's once again tiem for me to reflect upon the majestic name of Bob Ctvrtlik, who I think was the captain of the US Olympic mens' volleyball team at some point. a ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 23:38:17 -0500 From: Jeff Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Histrionics of the World, Part 1; formerly Bad Songs On 8/1/05, Aaron Mandel wrote: > On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, Jeff wrote: > > > While I'm at it: "catchphrase" is an interesting word, as it has *six* > > consecutive consonants. I don't think there's another standard English > > word (i.e., not counting imitative explanations like "brrrrrrrrr!") with > > more consecutive consonants. > > The Scrabble dictionary agrees with you (listing BORSCHTS, LATCHSTRING, > TSKTSK and WELTSCHMERZ as the only ones tied for six, some of which I > realize many people might not accept as words). Yeah - I'm pretty dubious about "tsktsk" (which is spelled - if it isn't one of those imitative non-words I mentioned - with a hyphen usually). "Weltschmerz" is only barely English. > I suppose it's once again tiem for me to reflect upon the majestic name of > Bob Ctvrtlik, who I think was the captain of the US Olympic mens' > volleyball team at some point. I believe it's also time to mention Elvis Grbac - who, while lacking the requisite number of consecutive consonants, adds the name "Elvis" - - which is somehow amusing. I think Latchstring Catchphrase should be the name of someone's band. They can call their first release "Who Let the Borschts Out?" - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V5 #187 *******************************