From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V5 #185 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Sunday, July 31 2005 Volume 05 : Number 185 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] Bad Songs [Chris Prew ] Re: [loud-fans] Always fun [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [loud-fans] Bad Songs [Jeff ] Re: [loud-fans] Always fun [Jeff ] Re: [loud-fans] Always fun [Dave Walker ] [loud-fans] 88) Complicated - Avril Lavigne !?!?! [Robert Toren ] Re: [loud-fans] Always fun [Jenny Grover ] Re: [loud-fans] Always fun [pking123@sympatico.ca] Re: [loud-fans] Always fun [Jeff ] Re: [loud-fans] Always fun [pking123@sympatico.ca] Re: [loud-fans] Always fun ["jer fairall" ] Re: [loud-fans] Always fun [Jenny Grover ] Re: [loud-fans] Always fun [AWeiss4338@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Always fun ["Stewart Mason" ] [loud-fans] Not that list! [Gil Ray ] Re: [loud-fans] Always fun [Jeff ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 08:48:45 -0500 From: Chris Prew Subject: [loud-fans] Bad Songs I thought the Anti list was simply axe grinding against stuff that was popular that the authors thought sucked, and stuff that was actually really good that the authors didn't like (Losin My Religion, ffor example). My list of bad songs would probably contain a Mandy Moore cover of the Beach Boys "God Only Knows" that plays over the titles of the movie "Saved" that I saw recently. I actually don't have a particular problem with Mandy (she _can_ act, actually), but girl, when you are signing one of the most beautiful and harmonically precise pop songs ever written, check the Whitney Houston look-at-all-the-notes-I-can-sing histrionics at the door. She just murdered it. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 11:20:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Always fun On Fri, 29 Jul 2005, Bradley Skaught wrote: > Oh okay, there's no point to this at all--I only hit a few classic rock > highlights and i'm already feeling that icky, "big waste of time" feeling > that comes with indulging in this kind of nonsense. Yeah, it's difficult (though not impossible) to say something interesting about music you dislike. One person acting alone can beat those odds; a whole poll's worth? Forget it. All voting on what sucks accomplishes is to generate a list of music that some group of people hasn't thought much about. Sure, most of what wins a poll like this probably isn't worth thinking or writing about, but if you aren't bothering anyway, why does that matter? Why should I be more interested in learning that someone I don't know has never thought very hard about Warrant than that they've never thought very hard about Young Marble Giants? a ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:42:46 -0500 From: Jeff Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Bad Songs On 7/30/05, Chris Prew wrote: > My list of bad songs would probably contain a Mandy Moore cover of the > Beach Boys "God Only Knows" that plays over the titles of the movie > "Saved" that I saw recently. I actually don't have a particular > problem with Mandy (she _can_ act, actually), but girl, when you are > signing one of the most beautiful and harmonically precise pop songs > ever written, check the Whitney Houston > look-at-all-the-notes-I-can-sing histrionics at the door. Sadly, that American Idol-esque style is becoming a lot of people's definition of what "good singing" is. To which I say, "Ick, and furthermore, yuck." - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:51:34 -0500 From: Jeff Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Always fun On 7/30/05, Bradley Skaught wrote: > Bands I can't stand that i'm supposed to love: > Led Zeppelin (with a good singer they would have been great. I like to play > a game at work called "Get Zeppelin a good singer". The best answer so far? > Burton Cummings.) Nah - in that alternative universe, he and Henry Wadsworth Longfellow are male porn stars. Actually, Led Zeppelin with Burton Cummings would just be "American Woman" (has anyone done a mash-up with that and "Whole Lotta Love"?) The voice thing is a deal-killer for me too, usually: no matter how much I might appreciate the rest of the music, if the voice is like nails-on-chalkboard to me, it's a no-go. I get what you mean about Led Zeppelin, but fortunately, I can tolerate Plant's singing. I'm curious, though: is it all of his singing, or just the high register of it? > The Doors (don't get me started) My take on that is they would have been a *much* better band with (that's right) a different singer and lyricist. Instrumentally, I think they're rather intriguing...but then Morrison starts babbling about his cock and angels' shoulders and I'm lunging for the stop button. > Lou Reed (after the third VU album) Lou Reed is, along with Bob Dylan, the most major, talented artist to commit the largest amount of sheer suckitude to vinyl. I'd disagree that everything after VU3 sucks - he had his moments - but yes, there's a huge volume of poorly edited, half-assedly performed, just plain dumb stuff in his catalog. > The Ramones (boring!) The thing about the Ramones is, you should only listen to them for 3-4 songs at a time, max. Loud. And drunk. > Can (see: The Ramones) The thing about Can is, you should only listen to them one 20-minute song at a time, max. Loud. Stoned out of your gourd. > Creedence (Fogerty is like the Eddie Vedder of the 70's--why sing like > that?) I've got nothing. - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 12:05:54 -0400 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Always fun No sir, I don't like it -- no way do "MMMBop" and "Get Ur Freak On" belong anywhere within 100 miles of such a list. -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 09:32:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Toren Subject: [loud-fans] 88) Complicated - Avril Lavigne !?!?! 88) Complicated - Avril Lavigne ??? no way - I liked that song the first time I heard it, and the last 40x; bought the CD for it; comes on the radio, I turn it up - makes me dance bending at the waist and the knees without shaking my hips, like I was sixteen again - Great song, singing and production. Robert http://www.angrylambie.com ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 13:52:30 -0500 From: "Heyman, Elo A" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Always fun I thought this list was pretty good overall. Here are my changes though to make it perfect: 14) Cracked Rear View - Hootie And The Blowfish* replace with Dishwalla - "Counting Blue Cars" lyrical strategy of turning god into a women to anger church groups to build up hype to build up radio play was allright, but hype died and all that was left was the song, which was quite lame. 18) Macarena - Los Del Rio Replace with Bob Dylan - Rainy Day Women # 5 & 6 (Everybody must get stoned!). I think the reason pot is still illegal in the US is because of this song. 19) Barbie Girl - Aqua - replace with Billy Joel - "It's Still Rock N Roll to Me" or "Pressure" Barbie Girl has deeper lyrics and is more honest than either of those Joel songs, and that's just sad. Barbie Girl is more fun as well. 22) Get Ur Freak On - Missy Elliott - replace with Genesis - "Illegal Alien" , or Phil Collins' later solo stuff, such as "Another Day in Paradise" Phil Collins patronizing his audience to get them to do....something - I guess open the borders or send money to Sally Struthers - is quite lame. 33) All I Wanna Do - Sheryl Crow replace with The Who - "Magic Bus." 8 minutes of shouting "get on the magic bus" to studdering hook-less music. An incredibly lame Bo Diddly impression. 38) Jaded - Aerosmith - replace with Aerosmith - "Pink" thinly veiled sexual reference that would be racy to a 2nd grader? check! lame beyond 3rd grade? check! 43) Airline Hostess - Busted - Replace with Butthole Surfers - Pepper. Anyways, is "Airline Hostess" like a secret copyright code or something? I've never heard of this song or band. 46) Just A Girl - No Doubt - replace with the Reel Big Fish cover of Duran Duran's "Hungry Like the Wolf" Is it just me or did reel big fish hate every single song they covered, but somehow got on cover albums anyways? Take on Me & Hungry Like the Wolf are horrible - Gigantic actually worked. 47) Malibu - Hole - Replace with The Doors - "The End" son killing family and lusting after mom is the subject every move ever shown on the lifetime channel, and we have jim morrison to thank for that brilliant idea. 49) In Da Club - 50 Cent - replace with JayZ- "Hard Knock Life" street tough rapper + song from Annie != (clever, novel, catchy, ironic), = lame. 60) Party All The Time - Eddie Murphy - replace with Queen - "Radio GaGa". "Party All the Time" is a novelty song, and novelty songs should be exempted from lists like this. I don't see entries from Don Johnson, girl from "Can't Hardly Wait" , whoa guy from Blossom, Bruce Willis, or voice of Kim Possible on this list, so why pick on Eddie? 62) Don't Stop Believin' - Journey - replace with Bob Seger - Katmandu. You can't have 2 Journey tracks and no Seger. That's just wrong. Steve Perry and Bob Seger were locked in lame mortal combat from the late '70s to early '80s, blowing away the earlier lame records set by Grand Funk Railroad and BTO. 63) Batdance - Prince - replace with Prince - Pussy Control. Nobody plays Batdance anymore, but you can't go to a dance club without hearing f-ing Pussy Control. Its a song about how to be a strong woman sure, and the woman's name is pussy. wow. 65) I Don't Give A... - Lil Jon - replace with Tupac - "Changes" We got to change the way we eat huh? I think they did a South Park episode about that.....Anyways, the original song sampled was about race relations, and so is "Changes" which makes it both unnecessary and lame. Marky Mark remaking the Velvet Underground song falls in this category as well. Tupac beats Marky though, becase they still play Tupac on the radio, Marky Mark not so much. 68) Dancing Queen - ABBA - replace with Paul Revere and the Raiders - "Indian Reservation" paraphrasing someone else here, but don't remember who - "the best way to marginalize the issues of a persecuted people is to write a lame song about their struggle." 80) Sugar Sugar- The Archies - replace with Def Leoppard - "Pour Some Sugar on Me" At least the archies were original. Def Leoppard stole the concept and a few of the lyrics for yet another lame sexual reference from the '80s. 83) Funky Cold Medina - Ton Loc -replace with Beatles - "Ob La Di, Ob La Da" if you are a John fan or "I am the Walrus" if you are a Paul fan. 88) Complicated - Avril Lavigne - replace with John Mellencamp - Hurts so Good. I agree with Sk8r Boi, but there's no way Avril deserves 2 on this list. "Hurts so Good" is another song that either includes a lame sexual reference or is about domestic violence in lower class relationships, and the fact that you really can't tell makes it perhaps more disturbing than lame, but whatever. 98) Losing My Religion - R.E.M. - replace with REM - "Stand" At least "Shiny Happy People" has a strong hook and a B52 singing. All "Stand" has got is rudimentary instructions on how to become a compass. 99) Break Stuff - Limp Bizkit - replace with Jim Croce - either "Don't Mess Around with Jim" or "Bad Bad Leroy Brown", whichever came out 2nd, because they are really both the same song with the name of the guy changed, and copying your own song is pretty lame. Much better. Andrew ________________________________ From: owner-loud-fans@smoe.org on behalf of Bill Carter Sent: Fri 7/29/2005 3:03 PM To: loud-fans@smoe.org Subject: [loud-fans] Always fun Another "100 Worst" list http://www.antimusic.com/specials/lame/ Regards, Bill Carter ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 15:05:57 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Always fun Heyman, Elo A wrote: > >33) All I Wanna Do - Sheryl Crow replace with The Who - "Magic Bus." >8 minutes of shouting "get on the magic bus" to studdering hook-less music. An incredibly lame Bo Diddly impression. > > That's "Too much, the magic bus," and I think it's a great song. And probably the first time I heard the word "queue" used to mean "line". >47) Malibu - Hole - Replace with The Doors - "The End" >son killing family and lusting after mom is the subject every move ever shown on the lifetime channel, and we have jim morrison to thank for that brilliant idea. > > I thought we had Sophocles to thank for that. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 15:40:01 -0400 From: pking123@sympatico.ca Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Always fun > At Friday 7/29/2005 10:24 PM, Jeff wrote: > > > > Nothing from The Partridge Family > > Also, I forgot Barry Manilow. Although as far as schlockers go, he is likely to be the most musically accomplished. I thought "Pump up the Jam" by Technotronic sucked ass as well, on the other side of the talent scale. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 15:04:37 -0500 From: Jeff Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Always fun On 7/30/05, Heyman, Elo A wrote: > I thought this list was pretty good overall. Here are my changes though to make it perfect: > > 19) Barbie Girl - Aqua - replace with Billy Joel - "It's Still Rock N Roll to Me" or "Pressure" > Barbie Girl has deeper lyrics and is more honest than either of those Joel songs That's the thing that bugs me about Joel. He's actually a fairly decent songwriter, adequate vocalist, good piano player...but every damned one of his songs sounds like he's writing for an ad campaign and impatiently waiting for the checks to start rolling in. > 47) Malibu - Hole - Replace with The Doors - "The End" > son killing family and lusting after mom is the subject every move ever shown on the lifetime channel, and we have jim morrison to thank for that brilliant idea. Plus some guy called Sigmund. > 83) Funky Cold Medina - Ton Loc -replace with Beatles - "Ob La Di, Ob La Da" if you are a John fan or "I am the Walrus" if you are a Paul fan. Well, I refuse to further the petty John/Paul -fan feuding - but I will say that "Ob La Di..." is mighty annoying. But why "I Am the Walrus"? That's a great song - even if it doesn't (appear to) make any sense. For annoying John song, the usual suspect is "Revolution No. 9" of course, or possibly "You Know My Name (Look Up the Number)" - but I'm going to nominate either "Run for Your Life" or "Dig a Pony." If we absolutely have to have a Beatles song here, which we certainly do not. > 98) Losing My Religion - R.E.M. - replace with REM - "Stand" > At least "Shiny Happy People" has a strong hook and a B52 singing. All "Stand" has got is rudimentary instructions on how to become a compass. I dunno - it always seemed a bit parodic to me - like, "here's a completely dumb top-40-type song." Doesn't automatically excuse it - but it's worth something. > > 99) Break Stuff - Limp Bizkit - replace with Jim Croce - either "Don't Mess Around with Jim" or "Bad Bad Leroy Brown", whichever came out 2nd, because they are really both the same song with the name of the guy changed, and copying your own song is pretty lame. It is - but hoo boy are there a lot of contenders for this list then! - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 14:43:01 -0400 From: pking123@sympatico.ca Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Always fun > On 7/29/05, pking123@sympatico.ca wrote: > > And, unless I have missed something, I saw > > > > Nothing from NKOTB > > Should I be distressed that I know what the abbreviation stands for? Well, I thought I have seen both the abbreviation and the band name often enough without taking in more of their music than I had no choice to take in, that perhaps you need not be distressed. Merely "knowing" an abbreviation does not by itself mean that you have imbibed more 90s schlock than would be considered "hip" to imbibe. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 14:01:11 -0800 From: "jer fairall" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Always fun The problem with including something like Hanson's "MmmBop" on a list like this is that it reveals a basic hatred for all pop music among the listmakers that--even if you hate the song itself--should render this list useless to the kinds of people who read Loud Fans. "MmmBop" is bouyant, catchy, well produced, and performed with charming naive enthusiasm, and there is a big difference, in my mind, between picking on it and picking on something like N Sync's "God Must Have Spent a Little More Time On You." I probably like a couple of the other songs on this list, and I certainly hate a good chunk of them, but both the ranking "system" and some of the selections (who the hell even remembers Kelly Osbourne's "Shut Up" or Metallica's "St. Anger," which come in at #'s 2 and 3 here?) reveal it as sloppy and disorganized, like everyone involved just shouted out a bunch of names of songs they hated at random when they were putting it together. But yeah, it's the "MmmBop" thing that discredits it the most. Jer today's playlist (so far): Expoxies, STOP THE FUTURE; Fine China, "Rated R Movie" (http://www.music.for-robots.com); Mitch Hedberg, STRATEGIC GRILL LOCATION Mourn the victims. Comfort the survivors. Stand for peace. Light a virtual candle for London: http://www.care2.com/go/z/london http://www.Care2.com Free e-mail. 100MB storage. Helps charities. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 18:17:11 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Always fun pking123@sympatico.ca wrote: >>At Friday 7/29/2005 10:24 PM, Jeff wrote: >> >> >> >>>> Nothing from The Partridge Family >>>> >>>> > >Also, I forgot Barry Manilow. Although as far as schlockers go, he is >likely to be the most musically accomplished. I thought "Pump up the >Jam" by Technotronic sucked ass as well, on the other side of the >talent scale. > > > > I'm still wondering why Desperado isn't on there. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 18:23:48 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Always fun In a message dated 7/30/2005 3:41:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, pking123@sympatico.ca writes: Nothing from The Partridge Family > > Also, I forgot Barry Manilow. Although as far as schlockers go, he is likely to be the most musically accomplished. I thought "Pump up the Jam" by Technotronic sucked ass as well, on the other side of the talent scale. Put Dave Mathews in the same catgory as Manilow. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 17:25:40 -0400 From: "Stewart Mason" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Always fun - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff" > Well, I refuse to further the petty John/Paul -fan feuding - but I > will say that "Ob La Di..." is mighty annoying. But why "I Am the > Walrus"? That's a great song - even if it doesn't (appear to) make > any > sense. For annoying John song, the usual suspect is "Revolution No. > 9" > of course, or possibly "You Know My Name (Look Up the Number)" - but > I'm going to nominate either "Run for Your Life" or "Dig a Pony." If > we absolutely have to have a Beatles song here, which we certainly > do > not. My vote goes to the early trifle "Mr. Moonlight," again if we must. It may have been ex-lister John Sharples who originally posited this interpretation, or he have simply enthusiastically agreed when it was brought up here before, but "You Know My Name (Look Up the Number)" both makes a lot more sense and becomes much funnier if you keep in mind how every new Beatles single was immediately subject to dozens of covers, some of them extremely bizarre. So the first part of "You Know My Name" is the Beatle song, and each segment after that is another cover, each weirder than the one before. S ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 19:31:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: [loud-fans] Not that list! Desperately not wanting to end up on anyone's worst list, I knew I needed to go back and fix up the chorus on my last song - Not an Ordinary Car.. Well, back to work. I thought I had finished this weeks (months?) ago, but something kept bugging me. Not only was the chorus a bit..weak, the vocal harmonies were grating my ears, so I tried to fix 'em up a bit by adding a falsetto harmony, that doubles the lead vocal line in the chorus. There was no way I was gonna re-record the vocal tracks. I'm much too lazy to do that, plus. I doubt I could've gotten them any better, so I fell back to the old trick of doubling something and hope that it can help pull it all together. I had a tiny bit of space left over on the synth track, and there was plenty of room on either side of it, so I knew that I could safely add something to that track. (famous last words, but in this case I didn't screw anything up!) It all went ok, but it wasn't pulling anything together at all. If I listened to the isolated vocal tracks, it sounded fine. But in the context of everything else, it just was not sounding good. So I let it sit, and I thought about it for another 2 weeks... Today I decided to scratch the added harmony part, and to go with a sound effect instead. Busted out my trusty $30 sampler and started plowing through cd's, looking for the right sound. I wanted a spacey sounding whoosh, and found a very nice one on the soundtrack for Planet Of The Vampires. (great movie by the way, a mid 60's Italian outer space adventure that the creators of Alien must have seen at one time or another!) The sound was perfect. Added some digital delay and chorus pedal, and presto-THE CHORUS IS SAVED!!!!! Time to mix again, but that was not a problem since I really haven't messed with any of the settings since my first mix. What was a problem was me getting the right damn CD-R's, cause I'd run out. It was all too stupid for me to even discuss, but I finally found some. Now I know there is a difference between "for computer burning" and "for audio recorders" Duh. I got some Fujifilm ones and my recorder had a bit of trouble reading them, but ultimately, I got a great mix recorded. Any suggestions on a good brand to do this with? In case I haven't mentioned this (unlikely), I mix from my Tascam 8-track (analog) directly to a Philips stand alone cd recorder. Happy with the song, happy with the mix, but I'm not striking the board yet...Got to let these thing stew for a while... But! In the meantime, I've worked on the LAST 2 SONGS! Ones gonna be simple acoustic guitar with vocals, and ones gonna be a real bastard with a gazillion time and beat changes. Just about finished the drum programming for that one - the title song! (which ironically was actually the very first song I had written for this damn thing! til next time! Gil ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 22:44:56 -0500 From: Jeff Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Always fun On 7/30/05, Stewart Mason wrote: > > It may have been ex-lister John Sharples who originally posited this > interpretation, or he have simply enthusiastically agreed when it was > brought up here before, but "You Know My Name (Look Up the Number)" > both makes a lot more sense and becomes much funnier if you keep in > mind how every new Beatles single was immediately subject to dozens of > covers, some of them extremely bizarre. So the first part of "You > Know My Name" is the Beatle song, and each segment after that is > another cover, each weirder than the one before. Actually, I find this song - even the full-length one on one of the Anthology collections - rather amusing. Then again, I'm the sort of nasty commie pinko pervert who actually *enjoys* "Revolution No. 9." And "Silly Love Songs." - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V5 #185 *******************************