From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V5 #113 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Friday, May 6 2005 Volume 05 : Number 113 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] the short of it [Jenny Grover ] Re: [loud-fans] the short of it [zoom@muppetlabs.com] [loud-fans] Scott interview [Gil Ray ] Re: [loud-fans] Scott interview [zoom@muppetlabs.com] Re: [loud-fans] the short of it [Jenny Grover ] Re: [loud-fans] the short of it ["Bradley Skaught" ] Re: [loud-fans] Scott interview [Jeff ] Re: [loud-fans] the short of it [Jeff ] Re: [loud-fans] Scott interview [AWeiss4338@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] the short of it [dc ] Re: [loud-fans] the short of it [dc ] Re: [loud-fans] the short of it ["Stewart Mason" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 20:55:24 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: [loud-fans] the short of it No, not my stature. Are there any shortwave radio enthusiasts among us? I recently bought a shortwave radio and feel overwhelmed and confused by it all. I find lots of stations that I can't find in any listings, and fail to find many stations that are listed. There seem to be American preachers all over the friggin dial. And one big reason I got it is because I am fascinated with so-called "number" stations (you know, like "yankee hotel foxtrot" and the ones that repeat sequences of numbers, generally believed to be spy messages) and would dearly love to hear one for myself. So far I have not found one, though I keep reading that anyone poking around the dial much will find them. If anyone else here is into number stations, I would love for you to contact me offlist about it. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 19:07:54 -0700 (PDT) From: zoom@muppetlabs.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the short of it >And one big reason I > got it is because I am fascinated with so-called "number" stations (you > know, like "yankee hotel foxtrot" and the ones that repeat sequences of > numbers, generally believed to be spy messages) and would dearly love to > hear one for myself. So far I have not found one, though I keep reading > that anyone poking around the dial much will find them. If anyone else > here is into number stations, I would love for you to contact me offlist > about it. Typing "numbers stations" into Yahoo! yielded a few potentially useful web pages with frequencies, descriptions, and such. The first two: http://www.spynumbers.com/ http://www.dxing.com/numbers.htm Wouldn't mind tuning into Yosemite Sam (but right now I can't even get the computer CD player working), Andy Parrish: What do you think the differences are between you and Limbaugh? Franken: I'm glad you asked me that. I use this example a lot. A few months ago, Rush was talking about the minimum wage. Conservatives like to portray it that no one has to raise a family on the minimum wagethe only people who get the minimum wage are teenagers who want to buy an iPod. So Rush says, "Seventy-five percent of all Americans on the minimum wage, my friends, are teenagers on their first job." And one of the researchers brings this to me, with a smile, and I say, "Well, can you look it up?" And they look it up. The researcher goes to something called the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Sixty percent of Americans on minimum wage are 20 and above. Forty percent, then, are either teenagers or below 12 [laughs]. I had several jobs as a teenager, so you figure, what, 13 percent might be teenagers in their first job. Not 75 percent. So where did Rush get his statistic? Well, he got it directly from his butt. It went out his butt, into his mouth, out the microphone, into the air, into the brains of dittoheads. And they believe this stuff. So we get our labor statistics from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. He gets his from the Bureau of Rush's Butt. [--Al Franken, from an interview by Geov Parrish at http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0518/050504_news_franken.php ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 19:04:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: [loud-fans] Scott interview There's a Scott interview at the Loud Family site: http://www.groovemachinemag.com/miller.html Gil Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 19:45:16 -0700 (PDT) From: zoom@muppetlabs.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Scott interview > There's a Scott interview at the Loud Family site: > > http://www.groovemachinemag.com/miller.html Interesting that the Fifteen-Thousand Dollar Woman isn't strictly responsible for the non-happening of the Scott-Aimee album, at least from Scott's point of view. Disheartening that he apparently hates MTV, and rap, and the 80's. As Jesse Fuchs wrote some time ago, music *with* visuals goes back a lot further than music without. Two Steps To The Middle Ages? (maybe so...see below) Andy Band Banned From Performing 'Louie Louie' Thu May 5, 4:18 PM ET BENTON HARBOR, Mich. - A pop culture controversy that has simmered for decades came to a head when a middle school marching band was told not to perform "Louie Louie." Benton Harbor Superintendent Paula Dawning cited the song's allegedly raunchy lyrics in ordering the McCord Middle School band not to perform it in Saturday's Grand Floral Parade, held as part of the Blossomtime Festival. In a letter sent home with McCord students, Dawning said "Louie Louie" was not appropriate for Benton Harbor students to play while representing the district  even though the marching band wasn't going to sing it. Band members and parents complained to the Board of Education at its Tuesday meeting that it was too late to learn another song, The Herald-Palladium of St. Joseph reported. "It's very stressful for us to try to come up with new songs for the band," eighth-grader Laurice Martin told the board. "We're trying to learn the songs from last year, but some of us weren't in the band last year." Dawning said that if a majority of parents supports their children playing the song, she will reconsider her decision. "It was not that I knew at the beginning and said nothing," Dawning said. "I normally count on the staff to make reliable decisions. I found out because a parent called, concerned about the song being played." "Louie Louie," written by Richard Berry in 1956, is one of the most recorded songs in history. The best-known, most notorious version was a hit in 1963 for the Kingsmen; the FBI spent two years investigating the lyrics before declaring they not only were not obscene but also were "unintelligible at any speed." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 23:22:15 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the short of it zoom@muppetlabs.com wrote: > >Typing "numbers stations" into Yahoo! yielded a few potentially useful web >pages with frequencies, descriptions, and such. The first two: > >http://www.spynumbers.com/ > >http://www.dxing.com/numbers.htm > > Been there, done those, and even with a listing of hundreds of potential spy number stations, I'm not finding them. For one thing, those aren't usually permanently used frequencies. They move around or only are used for a time. There are some pages where you can log in when you hear one and list where it was, what day, time, month, year, etc. The most recent loggings I have found were for March of this year. With those being volunteer logs, I think not very many people bother, or even know what they've found or where to log it. I'm also beginning to think that with all the hills, this might not be a great dxing area. For those interested in number stations, there are several pages with recordings of number broadcasts and they're pretty eerie and fascinating to listen to. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 23:36:19 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Scott interview zoom@muppetlabs.com wrote: >Disheartening that he apparently hates MTV, and rap, and the 80's. > > And damn disheartening that he seems to think "Seattle grunge" was an actual cohesive style and movement. The formulaic stuff came mostly out of a watered down pick and choose co-opting of a handful of Seattle bands by people looking to cash in on something. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 21:53:38 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Scott interview At Thursday 5/5/2005 08:04 PM, Gil Ray wrote: > There's a Scott interview at the Loud Family site: > >http://www.groovemachinemag.com/miller.html Gil, I must hear this Stephin Merritt impression of yours. Latre. --Rog - -- Distance, Redefined: http://www.reignoffrogs.com/flasshe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 21:00:45 -0700 From: "Bradley Skaught" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the short of it > For those interested in number stations, there are >several pages with > recordings of number broadcasts and they're pretty >eerie and fascinating > to listen to. I have a CD box set called The Conet Project, which features four discs of recordings from number stations all over the world, and a 73 page book talking about the theories and sequences. It's really creepy and fascinating and I try not to think about it too much! B ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 00:22:43 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the short of it Bradley Skaught wrote: >I have a CD box set called The Conet Project, which features four discs of >recordings from number stations all over the world, and a 73 page book >talking about the theories and sequences. It's really creepy and fascinating >and I try not to think about it too much! > > Is that the set Wilco lifted the "yankee hotel foxtrot" sample from? Jen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 00:32:31 -0400 From: "Stewart Mason" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the short of it - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jenny Grover" >>I have a CD box set called The Conet Project, which features four >>discs of >>recordings from number stations all over the world, and a 73 page >>book >>talking about the theories and sequences. It's really creepy and >>fascinating >>and I try not to think about it too much! >> > Is that the set Wilco lifted the "yankee hotel foxtrot" sample from? Yes, without bothering to ask, or to give credit. The guy who put the set together got quite a nice hunk of change when he politely pointed this out, and used it to reprint the box set in a new edition a couple years ago. S ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 23:55:12 -0500 From: Jeff Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Scott interview On 5/5/05, zoom@muppetlabs.com wrote: > > > There's a Scott interview at the Loud Family site: > > > > http://www.groovemachinemag.com/miller.html > > Interesting that the Fifteen-Thousand Dollar Woman isn't strictly > responsible for the non-happening of the Scott-Aimee album, at least from > Scott's point of view. Geez - hatin' on Aimee much? Disheartening that he apparently hates MTV, and rap, and the 80's. I didn't think he hated them so much as recognized his own tastes and goals were incompatible with that decade's marketplace. "Chanted poetry" doesn't sound like a putdown from someone who reads a lot of poetry! > > > Band Banned From Performing 'Louie Louie' Thu May 5, 4:18 PM ET > > BENTON HARBOR, Mich. - A pop culture controversy that has simmered for > decades came to a head when a middle school marching band was told not to > perform "Louie Louie." > > Benton Harbor Superintendent Paula Dawning cited the song's allegedly > raunchy lyrics in ordering the McCord Middle School band not to perform it > in Saturday's Grand Floral Parade, held as part of the Blossomtime > Festival. > "Louie Louie," written by Richard Berry in 1956, is one of the most > recorded songs in history. The best-known, most notorious version was a > hit in 1963 for the Kingsmen; the FBI spent two years investigating > the lyrics before declaring they not only were not obscene but also were > "unintelligible at any speed." > I don't suppose at any point in this ridiculous episode that anyone thought of READING THE FUCKING LYRICS? Which are "offensive" only if you're offended by faux-Caribbean patois. I'm not sure which is stupider: that these idiots in Michigan never bothered to determine that about the only thing "obscene" about the song is that the singer of the Kingsmen was clearly drunk...or that the reporter never bothered to clarify that, in fact, the lyrics are utterly innocent. God what a stupid fucking bunch of morons. Sorry - "einer nach dem andern" as Wozzeck said (I think - like I can channel German by memory at midnight...). Oh - and yes, Gil, please put up at least some audio of that Merritt impression ;-) - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 00:00:17 -0500 From: Jeff Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the short of it On 5/5/05, Stewart Mason wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jenny Grover" > >>I have a CD box set called The Conet Project > >> > > Is that the set Wilco lifted the "yankee hotel foxtrot" sample from? > > Yes, without bothering to ask, or to give credit. The guy who put the > set together got quite a nice hunk of change when he politely pointed > this out, and used it to reprint the box set in a new edition a couple > years ago. While it surely would have been better if Wilco had asked or given credit, the broadcasts weren't really the Conet guy's to begin with: they were recorded over the airwaves, originating from god knows where. So my guess is Tweedy & co. assumed they were in the PD aether - or were effectively such, since there'd be no way to track down their source. Had they been assholes, I suppose they could have claimed they'd recorded them independently of the Conet guy, in the same way he did: over the shortwave freqs. - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 01:03:20 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Scott interview I do wonder, with this interview, if Scott's comments were taken out of context in some way, I've never read an interview with him that was like this. I have a feeling that this mag may have had some sort of agenda, especially reguarding 80s and 90s alt rock, and editied his answers to fit that agenda. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 22:07:04 -0700 From: dc Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the short of it On May 5, 2005, at 9:32 PM, Stewart Mason wrote: > Yes, without bothering to ask, or to give credit. The guy who put the > set together got quite a nice hunk of change when he politely pointed > this out, and used it to reprint the box set in a new edition a couple > years ago. > yes, this guy: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35647-2004Aug2.html dc one-ten-sixty-six ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 22:35:15 -0700 From: dc Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the short of it On May 5, 2005, at 5:55 PM, Jenny Grover wrote: > So far I have not found one, though I keep reading that anyone poking > around the dial much will find them. here's the link to the Conet Project in mp3 format. makes me want to don a raincoat and monitor the nearest shipping lanes with binoculars or something.... http://irdial.hyperreal.org/the%20conet%20project/ dc one-ten-sixty-six ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 01:58:55 -0400 From: "Stewart Mason" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] the short of it - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff" > While it surely would have been better if Wilco had asked or given > credit, > the broadcasts weren't really the Conet guy's to begin with: they > were > recorded over the airwaves, originating from god knows where. So my > guess is > Tweedy & co. assumed they were in the PD aether - or were > effectively such, > since there'd be no way to track down their source. Had they been > assholes, > I suppose they could have claimed they'd recorded them independently > of the > Conet guy, in the same way he did: over the shortwave freqs. This is true, but as Jenny has been finding out for herself, the number stations are actually surprisingly difficult to find: I've known about them for about 23 years, ever since I read William Poundstone's BIG SECRETS (excellent book, btw), but while I've maintained a fair-to-middling interest in shortwave radio over the intervening years, I have never once heard one myself. (I'm currently somewhat hampered by the fact that although I have possession of a very nice little handheld shortwave model, we live right next to a friggin' enormous rail yard, and radio reception of all types is very iffy in much of the house, especially back here in the office, which is where I'm usually playing with the radio, most often at times (like now) when I really should be working instead. Besides, my own radio interest is usually in trawling the AM band on a clear night, seeing what's the furthest-away station I can get. Usually someplace like Milwaukee or Detroit.) Anyway, the particular sample in question, at the end of "Poor Places," is of an even more rare subset, stations that use the NATO Phoenetic Alphabet (alpha, bravo, charlie, etc.) instead of the usual groups of numbers, and the likelihood that Wilco's lawyers could say with a straight face that they just happened to stumble across exactly the same transmission at the same time is pretty slim. I just lit upon a site ( http://tinyurl.com/2ozp2 ) that quotes extensively from Irdial's press release, in which they explain how they argued that their recording of the number station in question was altered enough on the CD to make it a unique copyrightable work. The guy whose site it is doesn't really buy the argument -- and he makes some entirely valid points against it -- but it looks to me like the equivalent of getting royalties on some old folk song like "Barbara Allen" by use of the good ol' "Trad. Arr. Foo" byline, and if they allow that... S ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V5 #113 *******************************