From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V4 #274 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Tuesday, October 5 2004 Volume 04 : Number 274 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] american music club returns [Aaron Mandel ] [loud-fans] Love Zombies (0% Monochrome Set content) ["Rex.Broome" ] Re: [loud-fans] american music club returns [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Let's all SMILE! ["Pete O." ] Re: [loud-fans] Let's all SMILE! ["Bradley Skaught" ] Re: [loud-fans] psychobabble (0% Rosicrucian content) [Jenny Grover ] Re: [loud-fans] psychobabble (0% Rosicrucian content) [LkDylaninthmvies@a] Re: [loud-fans] psychobabble (0% Rosicrucian content) [Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] american music club returns On Sun, 3 Oct 2004, Miles Goosens wrote: > Wire, THE IDEAL COPY > Wire, SEND Ah, sorry, I was unclear; every time I've heard the specific claim that a reunion album sounded (both stylistically and in terms of actually being good) like the band had never broken up, I've been disappointed along *those* lines. I do like both of those Wire albums (though Send had zero staying power with me), and I liked most of Nextdoorland, but it largely sounded like recent Robyn on his own more than like the Soft Boys. I mean, there's no reason it shouldn't! 20 years is a long time. And yet, people enjoy saying those things about reunion albums. So anyway, sounding familiar isn't my only criterion for reunion albums by any means, but I was impressed at how much this AMC record recaptured what I liked about the band's later albums. a ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:38:20 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: [loud-fans] american music club returns On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:47:56 -0400 (EDT), Aaron Mandel wrote: > On Sun, 3 Oct 2004, Miles Goosens wrote: > > > Wire, THE IDEAL COPY > > Wire, SEND > > Ah, sorry, I was unclear; every time I've heard the specific claim that a > reunion album sounded (both stylistically and in terms of actually being > good) like the band had never broken up, I've been disappointed along > *those* lines. I do like both of those Wire albums (though Send had zero > staying power with me), and I liked most of Nextdoorland, but it largely > sounded like recent Robyn on his own more than like the Soft Boys. I mean, > there's no reason it shouldn't! 20 years is a long time. And yet, people > enjoy saying those things about reunion albums. Although I kinda think _On-Off-On_ really does sound like those twenty years didn't exist. (Surprised no one's mentioned Mission of Burma in the reunion thread, btw) - -- ++Jeff++ The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:45:50 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: [loud-fans] Love Zombies (0% Monochrome Set content) >>Lucky for you there's only one "Time Of The Season" type song in the >>Zombies' canon. There isn't any Zombies compilation that has "Changes" >>or "This Will Be Our Year", but they only released two albums (BEGIN >>HERE and ODESSEY & ORACLE) plus a few singles, so you can buy everything >>they ever recorded with just a couple of CDs. Although I'll probably pick up the box eventually, I find "O&O" basically essential in its album form... don't know what to compare it to... some relation to middle period Kinks, but different somehow as well... so I have that and a fairly shabby single-disc best-of and that does the trick for me. However, whoa, what's wrong with "Time of the Season"? Great song. Even if the big-'60's harmony vocal is a bit much for you, step back from having heard it too many times and appreciate the crazy resolve on the chorus for the lovely thing it is. I'd be interested in more reports from the Love/Zombies shows. Saw Arthur Lee and the Love/Baby Lemonade band recently at the Sunset Junction Street Fair and found them quite good, but kept thinking that it'd be much, much better in a club... coudn't tell if Lee was just having trouble connecting with a big crowd who wasn't necessarily there to see him, but, while not as off-seeming as. say, Brian Wilson, he was a little more off than I would've hoped. I think I've asked before, but does anyone have any insight or recommendations about Baby Lemonade's own albums? Aaron Mandel: >>I realize people always say that about reunion albums, but for what it's >>worth, I've been disappointed by just about everything I've heard >>described that way, save one track on the Soft Boys reunion. I really like the SB's reunion almost from top to bottom, and Mission of Burma's reunion record is superb. Miles mentioned a few other very solid entries; I also like the '91 Television album more than most folks seem to. I guess the next few weeks will allow me to gauge where AMC and Camper Van Beethoven fall on that scale. FWIW, to me, AMC falls off into some degree of saminess after "Everclear" (my favorite), but admittedly those later records suffer from consistency more than anything being actually wrong with them. In fact I actually refer to the phenomenon whereby an artist's consistency is so solid that one ends up preferring the first work one hears by them sheerly by dint of its newness to the listener... as The American Music Club Rule. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:44:08 -0400 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: [loud-fans] dB's video There's now some very cool video available here from the Old Grey Whistle Test. http://www.thedbsonline.net/multimedia/index.html I'm amazed that Stamey has hardly aged. Larry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 12:42:30 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] american music club returns At 11:38 AM 10/4/2004 -0500, 2fs wrote: >Although I kinda think _On-Off-On_ really does sound like those twenty >years didn't exist. (Surprised no one's mentioned Mission of Burma in >the reunion thread, btw) I didn't mention ON-OFF-ON because it has yet to stick with me. I want to give it at least another 3-4 plays before declaring my indifference to it. I don't dislike it so far, but that's a far cry from how much I thought I'd enjoy it. I'll probably give it some more spins before next Friday, when I'll be seeing them live. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 13:57:48 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Love Zombies (0% Monochrome Set content) At 10:45 AM 10/4/2004 -0700, Rex.Broome wrote: > However, whoa, what's wrong with "Time of the Season"? Great song. Even >if the big-'60's harmony vocal is a bit much for you, step back from having >heard it too many times and appreciate the crazy resolve on the chorus for >the lovely thing it is. Thanks for saying that! And the riff that drives the song somehow combines a steamy late-summer evening with a sinister cool -- the whole thing sounds sultry and dangerous, and Blunstone's "What's your name? Who's your daddy? Is he rich like me?" come-on fits the sound like a glove. >I'd be interested in more reports from the Love/Zombies shows. Saw Arthur >Lee and the Love/Baby Lemonade band... Can't help you with Love (and wouldn't be the guy to ask anyway), but I saw the new-model Zombies earlier this year, and it was an excellent show. By the way, Jim Rodford is certainly a contender in the "World's Shortest Human, Non-Dwarf/Midget/Pygmy" division. >FWIW, to me, AMC falls off into some degree of saminess after "Everclear" >(my favorite), but admittedly those later records suffer from consistency >more than anything being actually wrong with them. In fact I actually refer >to the phenomenon whereby an artist's consistency is so solid that one ends >up preferring the first work one hears by them sheerly by dint of its >newness to the listener... as The American Music Club Rule. I don't have an AMC rule, but to me, WEST was the Eitzel product I always wanted, with some tunefulness and sonic variety making the trademark Eitzel scary gloomfests much more effective IMO. But folks completely satisfied with earlier Eitzel products saw it as a sellout and worse (did glenn call it a "betrayal?" TWAS 171 has the CAUGHT IN A TRAP review where he recounts his experience of WEST). It probably points to my own pop-minded shallowness, but there's a whole category of artists out there who I'm not so sold on most of the time, but have an album or two that I like and their devoted fans hate. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 14:51:29 EDT From: LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] psychobabble (0% Rosicrucian content) I have this book that is very popular in the teaching profession, called THE FIRST DAYS OF SCHOOL, and it's a guide book to help new teachers written by a married teaching couple who are respected in the field--Harry and Rosemary Wong. This passage cracked me up, because it was so unexpected in the overall tone and scope of the book: You Are Treated as You Are Dressed How much credibility would a bank have if the teller who processes your paycheck was dressed in jeans and wore a T-shirt emblazoned with the slogan "Poverty Sucks"? Would you buy life insurance from a salesperson who called on the family wearing a bowling jacket with the inscription "Ma's Donuts" on the back?....The fact is, most people think that the cover is the book, the box front is the cereal, and the leather jacket is the person. We all make judgments. We look at someone and judge status, income, even occupation. So, I guess showing up to class in black low-top Chucks without socks, slightly rolled-up jeans and a vintage black SPOOKY era Lush T-shirt isn't a good idea? (it has the original Lush logo on it, huge, in orange...tres neat) The bowling jacket would be good, if this still WERE the SPOOKY era. Now it comes off like fake Americana, off the rack from the mall. People that work in record stores don't get paid _ick, but at least they can wear what they want. If the above passage from the book is true, then the new Tears For Fears looks as if it would sound like the Grateful Dead. I hate that cover! bonus track: Change (Casey Jones remix) - --Mark S. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 14:00:44 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Love Zombies (0% Monochrome Set content) On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:45:50 -0700, Rex.Broome wrote: > record is superb. Miles mentioned a few other very solid entries; I also like the '91 > Television album more than most folks seem to. I guess the next few weeks will allow > me to gauge where AMC and Camper Van Beethoven fall on that scale. Oh, I like that Television reunion record quite a bit too. Better than _Adventure_, in fact - whose reissue persuades me that I was underrating it, but it's still their weakest release. Not hard when _Marquee Moon_ is a stone classic, of course... I'm looking forward to the AMC and the CVB as well. Not so much the DMV and the DMZ, however. - -- ++Jeff++ The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 14:01:49 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] american music club returns At 10:47 AM 10/4/2004 -0400, Aaron Mandel wrote: >Ah, sorry, I was unclear; It's more like I breezed by it. You did say it clearly. >every time I've heard the specific claim that a >reunion album sounded (both stylistically and in terms of actually being >good) like the band had never broken up, I've been disappointed along >*those* lines. ... >I mean, >there's no reason it shouldn't! 20 years is a long time. And yet, people >enjoy saying those things about reunion albums. So really the problem is "why do people say these sorts of things?" rather than an intrinsic problem with reunion albums as such. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:10:59 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Love Zombies (0% Monochrome Set content) At 10:45 AM 10/4/2004 -0700, Rex.Broome wrote: >I think I've asked before, but does anyone have any insight or >recommendations about Baby Lemonade's own albums? You can generally find them in the used bins for about $3 each, which is about right: good sounds, weak songwriting. >I really like the SB's reunion almost from top to bottom, and >Mission of Burma's reunion record is superb. Miles mentioned a >few other very solid entries; I also like the '91 Television >album more than most folks seem to. I guess the next few weeks >will allow me to gauge where AMC and Camper Van Beethoven fall >on that scale. The CVB album doesn't exactly pick up exactly where KEY LIME PIE left off - -- rather like TUSK, it indulges in a certain kind of computer-based sound manipulation that just wasn't easily done back in the day by a CVB-type band -- but it definitely sounds like the same band. S NP: DUST TO DIRT -- Alien Crime Syndicate (the Meices meant nothing to me, but I'm really enjoying this) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:13:28 -0700 From: "Vallor" Subject: [loud-fans] Re: loud-fans-digest V4 #273 > From: Steve Holtebeck > > But Jim Derogatis doesn't (http://tinyurl.com/3ljrm). His Sun Times > Review calls Van Dyke Parks "an overrated nitwit" and says Tony Asher > "has as often been dismissed as a bit of a hack". I've never heard > Asher dismissed as a hack, but Jim Derogatis has to know what a hack is! In my opinion Derogatis has devolved into the sort of contrarian that should take some time off and re-evaluate their critical thinking faculties. With his "Kill Your Idols" book, he's made it his raison d'itra to take down what anyone else thinks is a classic. Most of it's there, if it's accepted by enough critics or fans as an important album, he's probably taking it apart or having someone else take it apart in the most "this is crap" kind of way. He seems to me to be either a phony provocateur or just a pissed off man, incapable of living and let living. And what kind of critical analysis is "an overrated nitwit" and "has as often been dismissed as a bit of a hack" (I've never heard anyone say that about Tony Asher either...I expect if it's "often" been said, it would pass at least one of our radars). > From: Roger Winston > > Speaking of... Have we discussed "Kill Your Idols" here yet? I just got it > last week and have a read a few of the essays, including the SGT PEPPER, > PET SOUNDS, SMILE, NEVERMIND and OK COMPUTER ones. As someone who grew up > in the 60s yet never really got the Beach Boys thing and the genius of > Brian Wilson, it's refreshing to me to see that I'm not alone in my > indifference. And that not everyone considers classics to be... er, classic. I appreciate that loads of people don't like Pet Sounds, or for that matter Nevermind, the work of Big Star, etc etc. I personally am barely interested in Sgt Pepper, can't stand Oasis, think Dark Side Of The Moon is Pink Floyd's worst and have never really understood the appeal of Jeff Buckley or Van Morrison, but that doesn't mean that they don't speak volumes to millions of people, and I have no problem with that. Additionally, Derogatis was beaten to the whole "Kill Your Idols" concept about a year ago by Chunklet magazine (a relentlessly contrarian magazine) with their Overrated Issue last year. I hate to get all worked up about this, but I'm so tired of thoughtless negative spewing being passed off as thoughtful critical analysis. - - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:17:51 -0700 (PDT) From: "Pete O." Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Let's all SMILE! - --- Vallor wrote: > On a side note, I saw Brian Wilson and band do Heroes And Villains on Jay > Leno the other night and it was absolutely bizarre. A pointless keyboard in > front of BW along with his stiff performance augmented by strange hand > movements...yikes. > I've seen BW on Leno and Letterman several times over the past few years and he always has that deer-in-the-headlights expression on his face, like he's never been in front of a camera before. - - ===== ====== "I hope I didn't brain my damage" H.J.S. ====== ===== _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:51:21 -0700 From: "Bradley Skaught" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Let's all SMILE! > I'd love to hear what others think of it... I think it's really great. For as long as i've loved pop music i've been interested in Smile. I've listened to dozens of bootlegs, read books and articles, even emailed with participants. To finally hear a realized version of it is very exciting. Equally exciting, perhaps, is that the day after it came out one of my "Smile contacts" pieced together a new bootleg of the original 60's Smile that uses the new version as its model. It makes so much more sense now--where all the bits go and how the themes work. Smile really has become a work-in-progress--i've known so many people who have worked at constructing their own version. It's an extraordinary process and phenomenon! Brian's vocals are better than they've been in awhile, but they do ultimately keep it from being as great as it should be. A song like "Wonderful" just doesn't work with the ravaged, kooky sound of his voice. I almost just wish the Wondermints had sung the whole thing! Still, it really is beautiful to hear it all come together at last. I agree that Smile will never carry the kind of emotional weight that Pet Sounds has, but had it been finished there could hardly could have been a better back-to-back sequence of albums operating at that quality level. Mark Linnet's recording is wonderful, too--perfectly capturing the 60's atmosphere and tonal qualities, but avoiding anything that would stamp it as overtly "retro". He should know, he was the tape archivist for the Beach Boys catalog for years, and more than anyone has probably heard every note of Smile. A good friend of mine recorded at his studio once, and said his set-up in the guitar booth was right underneath an entire shelf of Smile tapes--I wish I had a photo of that! B ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:53:04 -0700 From: "Bradley Skaught" Subject: [loud-fans] Nile High The new Blue Nile album, High, is really wonderful. It is exactly the same as all their other ones, but since they take so long to make and are usually so short, it's somehow really satisfying to get the new ones when they come along. B ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:43:59 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] psychobabble (0% Rosicrucian content) LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com wrote: >People that work in record stores don't get paid _ick, but at least they can >wear what they want. > > > I worked in one mall record store that actually had something of a dress code. Guys had to wear ties, jeans were out, and while there was nothing about hair in the code, management started hassling one girl who had bright red streaks. Jen (who has always loved Time of the Season) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:00:24 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: loud-fans-digest V4 #273 At Monday 10/4/2004 01:13 PM, Vallor wrote: >I hate to get all worked up about this, but I'm so tired of thoughtless >negative spewing being passed off as thoughtful critical analysis. I think that's taking it too seriously, though I'll stop a bit short of saying it's all in fun. It doesn't appear to me from what I've read so far that anyone thinks what they're doing in Kill Your Idols is thoughtful critical analysis or proselytizing. It's more along the lines of "I don't like this album that most other people like, and here's why". I haven't seen any cheap shots at the artists, and indeed most of the reviewers seem to actually really like the artists - they just think that other albums by those artists are more worthy. For instance, the writer who criticized SMILE (based on the bootlegs) really adores PET SOUNDS. I could be wrong, and maybe it *is* some kind of conspiracy of bile-spouting nutjobs trying to make a name for themselves by being contrary. But in a way, I think that's giving them too much credit. Latre. --Rog - -- Distance, Redefined: http://www.reignoffrogs.com/flasshe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 21:09:31 -0700 From: "Steve Holtebeck" Subject: [loud-fans] Re: Zombie Love I sent this via webmail earlier today but haven't seen it yet.. Apologies if it's a re-send! Rex: > Although I'll probably pick up the box eventually, I find "O&O" basically essential in its > album form... don't know what to compare it to... some relation to > middle period Kinks, > but different somehow as well... so I have that and a fairly shabby > single-disc best-of > and that does the trick for me. The best intro to the Zombies would be the first two discs of ZOMBIE HEAVEN, which has all of their studio material. Discs three and four are more for the diehards. And O&O is all on it's own at the start of disc two, unlike that Rhino Love 2-disc anthology that splits FOREVER CHANGES across two discs. > However, whoa, what's wrong with "Time of the Season"? Great song. Even if the big-'60's harmony > vocal is a bit much for you, step back from having heard it too many > times and appreciate the crazy > resolve on the chorus for the lovely thing it is. I love "Time of the Season"! I was just answering Andrew's question about "Time of the Season"-type songs by mentioning that it isn't terribly representative of the album or the band. Wasn't it added to later pressings of O&O after it became a hit? > I think I've asked before, but does anyone have any insight or > recommendations > about Baby Lemonade's own albums? Like Stewart said.. they sound good but don't have many memorable songs. I think like the Wondermints, they've found their true calling as backing bands for rock icons. I've never heard any live recordings of the original Love, but can't imagine they sounded as good back in the day as Arthur Lee and Baby Love-ade do now. They can play all the slow FOREVER CHANGES stuff with the horns and strings, then can turn around and rip into something like "Seven and Seven Is"! - -Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 00:44:37 EDT From: LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] psychobabble (0% Rosicrucian content) In a message dated 10/4/04 11:45:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sleeveless@zoominternet.net writes: > I worked in one mall record store that actually had something of a dress > code. Guys had to wear ties, jeans were out, and while there was > nothing about hair in the code, management started hassling one girl who > had bright red streaks. > Was it Camelot Music? I worked there in '88-'89. I mentioned once before on the list that I worked for the infamous Richard Weiner, who I put down on an application for Manifest Discs and Tapes as "Ricky Wiener." This guy was a total Mcmanager type, with peach fuzz moustache, and a penchant for country releases. "Play that new Restless Heart CD again." We were like oil and water. "You are in charge of THAT stuff." He said this in a somewhat annoyed tone while pointing to the "Alternative" section shortly after I was hired. Someone suggested I should have called him Dick on the Manifest application. I had thought of that, but I didn't want it to be terribly obvious my thoughts of him. He also didn't like the way I dressed. I wore a lot of black in those days. Sorry, I don't have any cowboy boots, Dick. I worked at Manifest in the mid '90s, and it was a fantastic store. It just recently closed its doors, but the local one has become Earshot Records, and it's as good as Manifest was. - --Mark S. np: The Cannanes SHORT POPPY SYNDROME (a great old record I haven't played in years and years) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 01:36:14 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] psychobabble (0% Rosicrucian content) LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com wrote: > > Was it Camelot Music? Noop. It was Beaky's, a division of Wall to Wall Sound, in Princeton, NJ in the mid 80's. It no longer exists. Our regional manager was a navy suited stuff shirt (Bill, I think) who dressed and acted way too old for his age. This guy didn't have a hip bone in his body- not even in his hips. My store manager was pretty fun, actually, and younger than me. Then his way younger girlfriend took over when he was moved to another store. I could have been manager there several times over, but I kept turning it down. I had no desire to work 60-80 hours a week on a 40 hour a week based salary with no overtime, which is what they were having to do. Part time with hourly wages was just fine by me! Jen ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V4 #274 *******************************