From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V4 #244 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Tuesday, September 7 2004 Volume 04 : Number 244 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] bludlows [Jenny Grover ] Re: [loud-fans] 1985... why did it have to be 1985? ["R. Kevin Doyle" ] Re: [loud-fans] Justin... why did it have to be Justin? [Stewart Mason ] Re: [loud-fans] The Justin Case [Stewart Mason ] Re: [loud-fans] The Justin Case [Roger Winston ] Re: [loud-fans] The Justin Case [Roger Winston ] Re: [loud-fans] Justin... why did it have to be Justin? [LkDylaninthmvies] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 03:18:24 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: [loud-fans] bludlows Anyone heard of a band called the Bludlows? Web searches are proving fruitless so far, likewise Allmusic. 3wk is playing them, but has no links for them. I'm really liking what I hear, but if I can't find it, I can't buy it. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 01:19:34 -1000 From: "R. Kevin Doyle" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] 1985... why did it have to be 1985? - ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >In a message dated 9/2/04 02:10:09 EDT LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com writes: > >>In a message dated 9/1/04 3:19:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >>rkdoyle@midpac.edu writes: >> >> >>> He said something like >>> "this is my life" or "this is my art" when people weren't responding the way >>> he'd wanted. The show itself was awesome - I thought "Her Head's Revolving" >>> was one of the best songs I'd ever heard live. >> >>How do you think he wanted them to respond? I remember the audience alternately not paying attention to them and being downright rude. MQ, IMO, came across as being a musician who was giving an amazing show and was frustrated because much of the audience couldn't care less. Don't get me wrong, REM was great, but I would have been satisfied with just the Three O'Clock part of the show. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 09:55:41 -0400 From: Charity Stafford Subject: Re: [loud-fans] 1985... why did it have to be 1985? At 03:18 AM 9/2/2004 -0400, Jenny Grover wrote: >1985... to be honest, without doing research, which I don't have time to >do these days, I can't say *exactly* what I was listening to then except >where other people have offered release dates in this thread, because >musically 1984-86 kind of run together for me. Same here, probably actually going as far as 1987, which is one of several reasons why I'm a week late hopping onto this thread. Also, as with doug, it was a pretty spectacularly bad strech in my life. However, one reaction to this was that, after 4 or 5 years of following the local indie scene on college radio, I was finally galvanized to start going out on my own and seeing bands in the local clubs. Bands I followed closely and would pretty much see anytime they played included O Positive, Christmas, Busted Statues, Throwing Muses (while they were still all babies), and Volcano Suns (largely because I worked at Copy Cop with Peter Prescott); other bands I saw a lot of included Classic Ruins, The Zulus, Skin, Uzi, The Five, Dredd Foole and the Din, Dumptruck, and Big Dipper (also, briefly, a Copy-Cop-related band - the Copy Cop connection led me to see a bunch of bands over the years, including Drumming on Glass, Miles Dethmuffen, and Workforce, although somehow I entirely missed The Bags and several others.) 1985 was also musically notable for me because that was the year that I was hugely into Big Black - they don't seem to fit into my musical taste when I look back now, but at the time there was a certain "'Why are you banging your head against that wall?' 'Because it feels so good when I stop!'" effect. I do still like that slashing guitar sound, come to think of it. At that point I was still a few years away from total GT/LF fandom - when Big Shot Chronicles came out "I've Tried Subtlety" was the hit on WMBR, and I quickly learned that I could get it played any time I wanted to by phoning in a request, but I didn't buy the album till many years later. I did buy Lolita Nation, and saw the band at the Rat, but was underwhelmed at the time with both experiences - I didn't fall totally in love until probably about 1991-92. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 14:54:28 EDT From: LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Justin... why did it have to be Justin? In a message dated 9/6/04 7:44:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rkdoyle@midpac.edu writes: > I remember the audience alternately not paying attention to them and being > downright rude. I'm sure we've all seen that happen again and again. It's depressing, but that Three O' Clock album went to being a cut-out almost overnight, and FABLES has been in print ever since. Peter Buck was once quoted saying R.E.M.'s opening for The Police was "a waste of fucking time." Opening for a bigger act seems to be more miss than hit. What people choose to revere and what they choose to discard in the music world has been a long-running mystery to me. Why Gil is not in MODERN DRUMMER like Stewart Copeland talking about how he tuned his tom-toms for this or that Game Theory or Loud Family hit is hard for me to understand (and I mean this without intending to sound like a suck-up). In a musically just world, Justin Timberlake would be cleaning out Scott Miller's pool. He could put those cat, er Muppetlike reflexes he used on Janet "What have you felt on me lately?" Jackson to work getting all those pesky leaves out of the deep end. - --Mark S. np: The Sneetches BLOW OUT THE SUN ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 20:35:31 -0500 From: steve Subject: [loud-fans] New Miyazaki film (NR, NS) Time again to ask, "Doesn't Steve have anything else to do?" > Japanese animator casts spell over Venice fest > America invades, again > Ghibli geeks > Howl B poster The common belief is that Disney delayed three Miyazaki DVDs scheduled for 8/31 to tie into a domestic release of Howl sometime next year. - - Steve, AB+ __________ Break the cursing seal of love, new devil. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 23:43:08 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Justin... why did it have to be Justin? At 02:54 PM 9/6/2004 EDT, LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com wrote: >In a musically just world, Justin Timberlake would be cleaning out Scott >Miller's pool. That comparison is utterly pointless. The simple fact is that Scott Miller, brilliant though he is, could never come up with a song like "Rock Your Body," which is a flat-out perfect pop single. People can gnash their teeth all they want about how "All-But-Unknown Cult Performer Foo should be a much bigger star than Ubiquitous Superstar Bar," but the comparisons never hold up. Scott Miller's music was never geared for mass success: he knew perfectly well that once you put in a line like "efficacious, b-follows-a-cious," that song is never ever going to trouble the upper reaches of the pop charts. That does not mean that people who *do* gear their music for mass consumption are somehow automatically dismissable, or that their music is automatically inferior. S ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 23:36:41 -0500 From: "Fortissimo" Subject: [loud-fans] The Justin Case On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 23:43:08 -0400, "Stewart Mason" said: > At 02:54 PM 9/6/2004 EDT, LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com wrote: > >In a musically just world, Justin Timberlake would be cleaning out Scott > >Miller's pool. > > That comparison is utterly pointless. The simple fact is that Scott > Miller, brilliant though he is, could never come up with a song like > "Rock > Your Body," which is a flat-out perfect pop single. People can gnash > their > teeth all they want about how "All-But-Unknown Cult Performer Foo should > be > a much bigger star than Ubiquitous Superstar Bar," but the comparisons > never hold up. Scott Miller's music was never geared for mass success: > he > knew perfectly well that once you put in a line like "efficacious, > b-follows-a-cious," that song is never ever going to trouble the upper > reaches of the pop charts. That does not mean that people who *do* gear > their music for mass consumption are somehow automatically dismissable, > or > that their music is automatically inferior. True...but I'm not sure the claim was that it was "automatically inferior," since the discussion was about a particular musician (Timberlake - and is that really his real name?). I don't know "Rock Your Body," at least not by title - but I'm generally less susceptible to the charms of current chart hits than some folks here. Still, it's certainly true that Timberlake clearly *aims* for chart stratospherics, whereas Scott Miller, however populist he'd like to think his music might be, and however much he might think it should reach more people, clearly has no such aim. Or if he does, he's seriously misguided. It'd probably be more useful to compare Miller's "luck" and career with people who have similar musical aims...and when you do that, yeah, you can see why it seems he's not only had less success commercially but also, perhaps, some bad luck. I think he's also made some poor commercial decisions, even within the realm of Songs that Feature Words Like "Efficacious." Seriously, though: would you really want to wish that kind of Timberlakean visibility and hugeness on Scott Miller, even if it were possible? (I wouldn't want it wished on me, just in case God is subscribed to Loudfans.) I somehow can't imagine Scott ripping off Aimee Mann's costume at the Super Bowl... It'd be nice if Scott were, oh, I dunno...someone whose music has sold enough that he can live off it, tour, and record w/o compromises. But does Justin Timberlake (or - moving back to using him as synecdoche - - any superpopular type) have much to do with that? I don't think so. Had Scott Miller come along at a different time, I suppose he could have been Radiohead or somebody - but that didn't happen. Me, I'm just glad he's playing and (apparently) writing again. Not that we're all that interested anymore, it seems... As long as we're On The Subject: so, what's the current status of The Hair? It had been shorn several years ago...but I keep seeing real, actual people with hair similar to the classical style - so gee, it's almost fashionable now. That's it - it's all about the hair, people! - ------------------------------- ...Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ :: Miracles are like meatballs, because nobody can exactly agree :: what they are made of, where they come from, or how often :: they should appear. :: --Lemony Snicket ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 01:04:19 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The Justin Case At 11:36 PM 9/6/2004 -0500, Fortissimo wrote: >True...but I'm not sure the claim was that it was "automatically >inferior," since the discussion was about a particular musician >(Timberlake - and is that really his real name?). The phrasing of the argument sounded to me like you could insert the name "Usher" or "Britney" into the sentence with no further changes. (And while I'm largely immune to Britney's charms, I like Usher's "Yeah!" even more than I like "Rock Your Body.") >It'd probably be more useful to compare Miller's "luck" and career with >people who have similar musical aims...and when you do that, yeah, you >can see why it seems he's not only had less success commercially but >also, perhaps, some bad luck. I think he's also made some poor >commercial decisions, even within the realm of Songs that Feature Words >Like "Efficacious." Absolutely, no question about it. Bad business decisions, intra-band turmoil, potentially questionable arrangement and production choices, a mid-career change of band names (which even Himself later suggested might not have been a good idea)...frankly, it's a wonder the guy's been able to release as many albums as he has! > >Seriously, though: would you really want to wish that kind of >Timberlakean visibility and hugeness on Scott Miller, even if it were >possible? (I wouldn't want it wished on me, just in case God is >subscribed to Loudfans.) I somehow can't imagine Scott ripping off Aimee >Mann's costume at the Super Bowl... It'd be nice if Scott were, oh, I >dunno...someone whose music has sold enough that he can live off it, >tour, and record w/o compromises. These days, an only slightly less impossible dream than megastardom, sadly. >As long as we're On The Subject: so, what's the current status of The >Hair? It had been shorn several years ago...but I keep seeing real, >actual people with hair similar to the classical style - so gee, it's >almost fashionable now. That's it - it's all about the hair, people! Currently, you can see The Hair in its full mop-like glory every week on The Amazing Race, perched on the head of the sixth-most-incredibly-annoying person left in the game. S ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 23:20:00 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The Justin Case At Monday 9/6/2004 10:36 PM, Fortissimo wrote: >I somehow can't imagine Scott ripping off Aimee Mann's costume at the >Super Bowl... brain... exploding... can't process mental image... >As long as we're On The Subject: so, what's the current status of The >Hair? It had been shorn several years ago...but I keep seeing real, >actual people with hair similar to the classical style - so gee, it's >almost fashionable now. That's it - it's all about the hair, people! True. In fact, in last week's episode, Brandon refused to shave off his signature Scott Miller locks, even though it would've meant moving to the head of the pack. "His hair is what sells for him", said his partner Nicole. http://www.cbs.com/primetime/amazing_race5/teams/brandon/bio.shtml And yes, Scott still sports the 'do, even if it is a bit more mellow than in years past: http://www.toneandgroove.com/live/live.html Latre. --Rog - -- Distance, Redefined: http://www.reignoffrogs.com/flasshe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 23:21:54 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The Justin Case At Monday 9/6/2004 11:04 PM, Stewart Mason wrote: >Currently, you can see The Hair in its full mop-like glory every week on >The Amazing Race, perched on the head of the sixth-most-incredibly-annoying >person left in the game. Dang! Stewart beat me to the punch line yet again. Latre. --Rog - -- Distance, Redefined: http://www.reignoffrogs.com/flasshe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 02:34:29 EDT From: LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Justin... why did it have to be Justin? In a message dated 9/6/04 11:44:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, flamingo@theworld.com writes: > The simple fact is that Scott > Miller, brilliant though he is, could never come up with a song like "Rock > Your Body," which is a flat-out perfect pop single. Sure he could! We'll just take him to a strip club and get him really drunk. Then, after he's had his fill of lap dances, we'll drive him home (after Mrs. Miller has gone to bed, so he won't get in trouble), give him a notepad, a pen, a Casiotone, a tape recorder, and a barf bag in case all that Sex on the Beach decides to resurface. We'll give him a 3rd grade vocabulary book, and tell him he can only use the words listed therein. I smell a hit! (and peach schnapps) Criteria running high, baby! (uh, Mr. Miller, about using the word "criteria"....) We'll get Toby Keith's wardrobe guy to make Scott some leather pants while we're at it. That should at least shift some units right there (no pun intended). - --Mark S. p.s. I see where you're coming from, Stewart, but I think Scott has some songs that should do well with a wider audience (Aimee Mann seems to think so, anyway...now if she would finish what she started). Let's compromise and say that Scott should at least be selling as many records as Aimee. Her records are in the BMG catalog, so why not Scott's? The "Adult Alternative" (sounds almost pornographic) genre should support him well, if only he were known by more of the people who buy records in that genre. ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V4 #244 *******************************