From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V4 #198 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Wednesday, July 21 2004 Volume 04 : Number 198 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Re: Hollies/vintage computers [LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Hollies [LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Hollies [LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com] [loud-fans] Re: movie question ["Vallor" ] [loud-fans] one more post (sorry) [LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com] [loud-fans] A winner and a runner up ["Vallor" ] [loud-fans] Double Pumper Hollies ["Rex.Broome" ] Re: [loud-fans] fall back [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [loud-fans] fall back ["Fortissimo" ] Re: [loud-fans] fall back [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [loud-fans] fall back [Jenny Grover ] Re: [loud-fans] fall back [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] fall back [Jenny Grover ] RE: [loud-fans] Re: Hollies ["Angela Bennett & Ian Runeckles" ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: movie question [LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] fall back ["Fortissimo" ] Re: [loud-fans] fall back [Jenny Grover ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 03:18:41 EDT From: LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Hollies/vintage computers Thanks for suggesting visiting the BMG site, Jen. I've never been to it before. Much to my surprise, Bessie Mae didn't freak out and shut down on me, and I could listen to songs. It seems like any time I visit a site with bells and whistles like BMG, this computer decides to take a nap. - --Mark S. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 03:55:48 EDT From: LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Hollies In a message dated 7/19/2004 10:40:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, michael@zwirn.com writes: > have the three-CD Hollies compilation on EMI America, Thirtieth > Anniversary Collection 1963-1993, > and it definitely has all the worthies (and some crap). > That sounds like a good collection, and maybe still available. When they were on, they were ON. When they weren't, well... I can't ever listen to "He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother" without going "ugh." It has that sappy quality like that song, which one was it that Michael Jackson sang when he was a kid, "Ben"? "Long Cool Woman In A Black Dress" is like a lost CCR track to me, and, even though I've heard it a million times, it has a haunting quality that I don't get tired of. - --Mark S. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 04:03:51 EDT From: LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Hollies In a message dated 7/20/2004 3:07:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, angela_and_ian@ntlworld.com writes: > think it cost me a fiver in the Music & Video Exchange in Notting > Hill. > I don't know how much this would be in US dollars, without looking it up. Is that about 10 bucks? Still sounds like a deal. - --Mark S. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 01:31:14 -0700 From: "Vallor" Subject: [loud-fans] Re: movie question > Has anyone seen BEFORE SUNSET? Last time I checked, it wasn't playing here, > but it shouldn't take too long for it to get to video. Does it work, or do > you think Linklater should have avoided a sequel? I'm afraid it'll be like > REALITY BITES 2: THE BITTER MINIVAN YEARS, or something. Still, I've enjoyed all > of his other films that I've seen, except for DAZED AND CONFUSED. WAKING LIFE > was masterful. I enjoyed SAME TIME NEXT YEAR as a kid, though admittedly I > was a little too young to fully appreciate it. Is it on that level of quality? > (assuming the consensus STNY is a good film). I think it's absolutely brilliant. It takes up with the character's 9 years later, as you likely know, but shows them after living through years of emotional turbulence that has left them as weathered as Ethan Hawke looks these 9 years on. That said, it is not an evil negitive twin to the first one and there is a lot of warmth to it. I can't recommend it enough, though I would add the caveat that you have to have seen the first film to really appreciate the wonder of the 2nd one. I believe that it is much more than one could reasonably have expected as a sequel to the first. Scott and Shannon and I went to see The Magnetic Fields at The Palace Of Fine Arts in SF tonight and they were a real thrill. Scott, who's seen them around 8 times says it's the most polished and solid he's seen them. They are, on this tour, Stephin on Uke, Claudia on Piano, John Woo on piano & guitar and Sam Davol on cello (I understand this has been the line up for some time). They did a 2 hour set with loads of "69 Love Songs" (including a somewhat theatrical performance of "Yeah! Oh, Yeah!") and "i" (including a stripped down acoustic version of the normally disco-y "I Thought You Were My Boyfriend") as well as material dating back to The "House Of Tomorrow". They were charming and funny and really just tremendous. If you don't hate them, see them when they come to your town. - - Dan Vallor ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 04:38:29 EDT From: LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com Subject: [loud-fans] one more post (sorry) I posted excessively this evening, not realizing it. If you have a suggestion on computer fixes (which involves not blowing the computer up) please send it to me off-list. I posted that computer stuff to Jen in the hopes someone in the know (and there are several here that certainly are) may be able to guide me to some free or inexpensive help. And, thanks for the Hollies collection info. Now I know what to look for. - --Mark S. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 02:07:11 -0700 From: "Vallor" Subject: [loud-fans] A winner and a runner up One of my favorite competitions, Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Contest (which celebrates the finest in bad writing), has a new winner. I'm also including one of the dishonorable mentions. The winner is: Dave Zobel of Manhattan : "She resolved to end the love affair with Ramon tonight ... summarily, like Martha Stewart ripping the sand vein out of a shrimp's tail ... though the term 'love affair' now struck her as a ridiculous euphemism ... not unlike ' sand vein,' which is after all an intestine, not a vein ... and that tarry substance inside certainly isn't sand ... and that brought her back to Ramon." Runner up Pamela Patchet Hamilton of Beaconsfield, Quebec wrote: "The notion that they would no longer be a couple dashed Helen's hopes and scrambled her thoughts not unlike the time her sleeve caught the edge of the open egg carton and the contents hit the floor like fragile things hitting cold tiles, more pitiable because they were the expensive organic brown eggs from free-range chickens, and one of them clearly had double yolks entwined in one sac just the way Helen and Richard used to be" Not sure why that "Da Vinci Code" guy didn't place this year. - - Dan V. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 09:25:54 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: [loud-fans] Double Pumper Hollies Hmm, I didn't clock in that the weird overlap (or lack thereof) on Hollies compilations was a label issue. It does seem that you'll need to pick up two comps, even two cheapies like I did, to get everything you need. The standard Greatest Hits is short but not bad, but I had to pick up another knockoff to cover "Sorry Suzanne", "Jennifer Eccles" and "The Air That I Breathe" (although apparently that's been added as the solitary bonus track on the reissue of "Greatest Hits"... hmmm.) The best thing about the Hollies tribute album is that they let my favorite band on the record do my favorite Hollies song. Anyone wanna guess who I mean? - -Rex, who can see the little ladies in their gowns... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:57:51 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: [loud-fans] fall back As part of my Magnet subscription renewal each year, I get to choose a free CD from a proferred list. I chose The Real New Fall LP and I'm truly diggin' it! In the 80's I grabbed every Fall record I could get my greedy little hands on, and was thrilled to get to see them on the This Nation's Saving Grace tour. Of course, I did miss a few records here and there, but not many. But I sort of lost touch with them after Extricate, an album I wasn't so thrilled with. So, now there is a whole big batch of Fall albums that I don't have. So, if I wasn't thrilled with Extricate, but I am thrilled with Real New..., then what else should I pick up from the 90's-00's Fall? Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 17:12:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] fall back On Tue, 20 Jul 2004, Jenny Grover wrote: > So, if I wasn't thrilled with Extricate, but I am thrilled with Real > New..., then what else should I pick up from the 90's-00's Fall? Most similar albums? I'd start with The Unnutterable and then... hm, maybe The Light-User Syndrome. I like The Real New Fall LP okay (still haven't heard the US version, which I gather is better) but don't think they've made a consistently good album since Frenz Experiment. My favorite 90/00s Fall is all scattered in handfuls across the records; one-third of The Marshall Suite was brilliant, I thought, but my opinion of the rest hovers around "whatever". a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 16:50:14 -0500 From: "Fortissimo" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] fall back On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 17:12:39 -0400 (EDT), "Aaron Mandel" said: > On Tue, 20 Jul 2004, Jenny Grover wrote: > > > So, if I wasn't thrilled with Extricate, but I am thrilled with Real > > New..., then what else should I pick up from the 90's-00's Fall? > > Most similar albums? I'd start with The Unnutterable and then... hm, > maybe > The Light-User Syndrome. > > I like The Real New Fall LP okay (still haven't heard the US version, > which I gather is better) but don't think they've made a consistently > good > album since Frenz Experiment. My favorite 90/00s Fall is all scattered in > handfuls across the records; one-third of The Marshall Suite was > brilliant, I thought, but my opinion of the rest hovers around > "whatever". That seems mostly right...although there are probably some better avoided than others. _Are You Are Missing Winner_ has about two good tracks, and they're quite good - but the rest seems rather uninspired. The real problem is that with a lot of those post-80s things, I haven't listened to them enough recently to form coherent opinions. Here's something of a very rough guide: The Marshall Suite - agreed w/Aaron Levitate - about the same, although I can't remember that much of it - "I'm a Mummy" is one of their goofy covers, and "4 1/2 Inch" has a bass someone might use to stir concrete. Cerebral Caustic - relatively poppy, due to presence of Brix 27 Points - live 2-disc from CC era...eh. Middle Class Revolt - I remember liking this one pretty well Infotainment Scan - Seems about 1/2 filler... Code: Selfish - uh...can't recall Shift-Work - Oddly, I remember the quieter tracks ("Rose" and "Edinburgh Man") better than the usual riffograms... There are also 7.5 million EPs, dubious live albums, and repackagings. The Fall website at will help set you straight as well as give you more info than you could possibly need... - --Jeff, who just resub'd to Fallnet after several years' absence... What's funny is that Extricate is the *first* Fall album I bought... - ------------------------------- ...Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ :: "In two thousand years, they'll still be looking for Elvis - :: this is nothing new," said the priest. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:12:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] fall back On Tue, 20 Jul 2004, Fortissimo wrote: > Levitate - about the same, although I can't remember that much of it - > "I'm a Mummy" is one of their goofy covers, and "4 1/2 Inch" has a bass > someone might use to stir concrete. I actually liked Levitate a lot, but I hesitate to recommend it because it's weird and semi-dancy. > Middle Class Revolt - I remember liking this one pretty well > > Infotainment Scan - Seems about 1/2 filler... I would swap your descriptions of those two. > There are also 7.5 million EPs, dubious live albums, and repackagings. > The Fall website at will help set you > straight as well as give you more info than you could possibly need... Oh! Ha; I forgot my real 90's Fall recommendation, which is the compilation A World Bewitched. First disc: nearly all the good points from the 90s official releases (including some obscure ones, like a track off Mark E's solo album). Second disc: rarities and collaborations, i.e. a lot of totally brilliant artistic dead-ends that for once Mark E. can get in and get out of quickly rather than puttering around for a full album. It's an import, but I found mine cheap... (Okay, just checked ebay, half.com and gemm, and they all want $30 for this if they have it at all. Pity.) a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:55:15 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] fall back Aaron Mandel wrote: >I actually liked Levitate a lot, but I hesitate to recommend it because >it's weird and semi-dancy. > > I shy away from neither weird nor semi-dancy. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:50:23 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] fall back At 03:57 PM 7/20/2004 -0400, Jen wrote: >So, if I wasn't thrilled >with Extricate, but I am thrilled with Real New..., then what else >should I pick up from the 90's-00's Fall? I said this on Fegmaniax back in February: >Matt Sewell: >>That new Fall album is the best for many many years - it's utterly >>brilliant... highly recommended. > >I've been seeing a *lot* of "best in many years" / "best in ten years" sort >of accolades for THE REAL NEW FALL LP, FORMERLY 'COUNTRY ON THE CLICK' >lately, including a "best in ten years" in yesterday's e-mail update from >Grimey's. I find this simultaneously encouraging and discouraging: > >* ENcouraging 'cause the new Fall album's really good, and I'm psyched that >other people see it the same way. > >* DIScouraging 'cause TRNFLFCotCthingy makes three of the last four that >have been supremely excellent, so I can't help but read these "best in a >decade" accolades as a diss of THE UNUTTERABLE (my pick for the best Fall >album since the '80s) and THE MARSHALL SUITE. > >So... yay! and hrmph! I like EXTRICATE a lot too, so, um, you might take that into account, though I'll add the contradictory caveat that THE MARSHALL SUITE and THE UNUTTERABLE sound much more like THE REAL NEW FALL LP than EXTRICATE. Pass on ARE YOU MISSING WINNER?, the only one of the last four that wasn't so good. I'm still baffled that the new comp 50,000 FALL FANS CAN'T BE WRONG entirely eschews THE UNUTTERABLE yet has has a track from AYMW... later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:11:58 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] fall back I need to go back and listen to Extricate again. And I discovered to both my embarrassment and delight, that I had an as-yet-unlistened-to cache of Fall that I'd forgotten about from back in my eMusic days when Dana, I believe it was, inspired some sort of panic that they might be deleted and I downloaded whatever I didn't already have. Several of the albums people mentioned are in that file. I have The Marshall Suite on right now. Hmm... not sure what I think of it, rather than that I agree with those who said that parts are good and parts are not (though it might be interesting to know which songs people liked and which they could dispense with, and if those lists agree). Quite a strange cover of This Perfect Day. Just listened to Levitate and heard things there I liked. Neither album hit me as favorably as the new one did, though. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:07:43 +0100 From: "Angela Bennett & Ian Runeckles" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Re: Hollies I have a 1988 EMI Hollies 2 CD collection entitled All The Hits and More - the definitive collection which has Bus Stop on it - probably long out of print, think it cost me a fiver in the Music & Video Exchange in Notting Hill. Ian > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-loud-fans@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-loud-fans@smoe.org] On Behalf Of > LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com > Sent: 20 July 2004 02:25 > To: loud-fans@smoe.org > Subject: [loud-fans] Re: Hollies > > In a message dated 7/19/2004 9:15:59 PM Eastern Daylight > Time, LkDylaninthmvies writes: > > > > Is there another Hollies collection where "Bus Stop" is included? > > > > More specifically, another besides the '73 collection I > mentioned? Is there > something more complete? Perhaps an import? > > --Mark S. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 22:41:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] fall back On Tue, 20 Jul 2004, Jenny Grover wrote: > I have The Marshall Suite on right now. Hmm... not sure what I think of > it, rather than that I agree with those who said that parts are good and > parts are not (though it might be interesting to know which songs people > liked and which they could dispense with, and if those lists agree). "Shake-Off" is my favorite Fall song of the past decade, with "4 1/2 Inch" from Levitate close behind. I don't remember what else on The Marshall Suite got me, except that the single "Touch Sensitive" wasn't it. The interesting thing about Levitate, if memory serves, is that it was the last album MES made with the band he'd had for about 20 years, and he was making them imitate all kinds of Belgian dance music he'd just gotten into. a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 00:18:10 EDT From: LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: movie question In a message dated 7/20/2004 4:39:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, vallor@comcast.net writes: > I can't recommend it enough, though > I would add the caveat that you have to have seen the first film to really > appreciate the wonder of the 2nd one. > > I did, Dan. I remember I was the only one in the theater that afternoon. I thought it was sad that nobody was there to catch such a great film, even if it was a weekday. I think it played a week. I'm looking forward to seeing the sequel to BEFORE SUNRISE. I wasn't sure before, but you sold me. It sounds good enough to pay the $8 evening price for. - --Mark S. ***btw list, I apologize once again for all the posts yesterday. When you get in a forum with people who are like-minded in certain ways, and you're definitely NOT around people that are in your "real" life, you can get carried away. It's almost like a drug. Seriously. Plus, the list is truly an amazing tank of knowledge. I missed you guys. And, thank you very much for the computer help, Francis J H Park! I printed it out to refer to. np: The Butchies MAKE YR LIFE I bought a Sniff 'n' the Tears album for a quarter and have tried to get into it. "Driver's Seat" is moody and great, just like I remembered from '70s AM radio, but the rest sounds like wannabe Dire Straits to me. "I knew him way back when he was running his fanzine and had hair down to his arse. I couldn't believe it when he got a quiff. He was always talking about Slaughter And The Dogs. He loved them and I remember being amused because they were our enemies, them being from south Manchester and The Fall from north Manchester. He wasn't a fan of us and I remember whenever we met I called him by his proper name. I used to call him Steven and he got quite upset about that. I wasn't a big fan, but I don't like the way he's being slagged off all the time now. He's an easy target." (Mark E. Smith commenting about Morrissey in the MOJO Morrissey/Smiths limited edition magazine) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 00:02:33 -0500 From: "Fortissimo" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] fall back On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 22:41:38 -0400 (EDT), "Aaron Mandel" said: > The interesting thing about Levitate, if memory serves, is that it was > the > last album MES made with the band he'd had for about 20 years, and he was > making them imitate all kinds of Belgian dance music he'd just gotten > into. Hmmm...I'm not sure if that's right. Craig Scanlon jumped/was pushed in December '95 and Levitate came out in Sep. '97...the band had been relatively unstable for a while before then. But if you're really curious, there's a timeline here: (Which is how I knew those dates - I'm not *that* big a fanatic!) Also: please take with enormous chunks of NaCl my recommendations, particularly my unrecommendations, as my memory of the albums (as I noted) is very hazy. Except I can recommend _The Unutterable_ w/o hesitation, and everything from, oh, '83 through '88 except Seminal Live (=poot). If you find yourself liking the weirder bits and don't have a problem with lower-fi production values and sometimes loose musicianship, check out the stuff before that time. I'm terrible - I like almost all of it to some degree, and only rarely find myself thinking, why am I listening to this? (like during "Papal Visit" perhaps...if that's the one with the hideous violin scraping and muttering) np: home-burned comp of a zillion stray Fall tracks... - ------------------------------- ...Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ :: Solipsism is its own reward :: :: --Crow T. Robot ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:34:16 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] fall back Fortissimo wrote: >Also: please take with enormous chunks of NaCl my recommendations, >particularly my unrecommendations, as my memory of the albums (as I >noted) is very hazy. Except I can recommend _The Unutterable_ w/o >hesitation, and everything from, oh, '83 through '88 except Seminal Live >(=poot). If you find yourself liking the weirder bits and don't have a >problem with lower-fi production values and sometimes loose >musicianship, check out the stuff before that time. > > '79-'88 are extremely well represented in my collection and much loved. Hex Enduction Hour is a perennial fave, as is Perverted By Language. You have me quite kurious about The Unutterable, so I will likely seek that one out. And anyone who knows me well knows weirder bits, lower-fi, and loose musicianship are very good friends of mine. >I'm terrible - I like almost all of it to some degree, and only rarely >find myself thinking, why am I listening to this? > Ditto, so I guess that makes me terrible, too. >np: home-burned comp of a zillion stray Fall tracks... > > I have a tape like that. There was a WPRB disc jockey who used to have an annual show (on Halloween, I think, but I could be wrong) called The All Fall Decline and Fall (Decline and Fall was the name of his regular show) during which he played something like 3-4 hours of nothing but Fall songs. I taped the whole thing one year, kept it intact, but also copied off various things onto a single tape comp. He always played some of the harder to find stuff, and those are still my only copies of some of those songs. Jen ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V4 #198 *******************************