From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V4 #195 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Sunday, July 18 2004 Volume 04 : Number 195 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] General Public [LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] General Public [Jenny Grover ] Re: [loud-fans] this is pop [Aaron Mandel ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 03:56:57 EDT From: LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] General Public In a message dated 7/16/2004 4:13:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tonerbomb@warpmail.net writes: > So who's replacing the dead guys on bass and drums *this* time? > I'm just hoping that Ranking Roger doesn't try to work those bumble bee stripes in his 'fro again, twenty years on. That would be like Aimee Mann suddenly resurrecting her rattail. Incidentally, if you've never seen the artwork to the 'til Tuesday best-of CD, Aimee's said tail is pictured on the CD. I wonder what she thinks about that. Does she groan at the thought of her appearance circa '84-'86, or is she proud of her rattailed past? I can't speak for other parts of the country in that era, but if you grew up where I live and you had a rattail back then, chances are you also were no more than two degrees of separation from someone who owned a primered Camaro, you bought Marlboro reds by the carton, and you had the entire Dokken catalogue on cassette. Reaching new highs of superficiality, - --Mark S. np Ken Stringfellow Soft Commands ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 05:51:48 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] General Public LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com wrote: >I can't speak for other parts of the country in that era, but if you grew up >where I live and you had a rattail back then, chances are you also were no >more than two degrees of separation from someone who owned a primered Camaro, you >bought Marlboro reds by the carton, and you had the entire Dokken catalogue >on cassette. > > Um... does it count if you had two, and they were on the side, not in the back? I did, and I didn't know anyone with a Camaro, primed or otherwise, I didn't smoke tobacco cigarettes except on extremely rare occasion, and I am proud to have never owned anything by Dokken. Both braids were on the same side, BTW, and by the time I finally cut them, I'd had them seven years and they were well past my waist (I could sit on them if I tilted my head back). People tended not to believe they were real. I still have them in a box. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 05:54:34 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] General Public Oh... I failed to mention that I was living in NJ when I started growing them. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 10:32:47 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] General Public In a message dated 7/17/04 4:28:25 AM, LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com writes: > I can't speak for other parts of the country in that era, but if you grew > up > where I live and you had a rattail back then, chances are you also were no > more than two degrees of separation from someone who owned a primered > Camaro, you > bought Marlboro reds by the carton, and you had the entire Dokken catalogue > on cassette. > The new Dokken album is really good. They should be on the Curiosa Tour. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 11:23:04 EDT From: LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] General Public In a message dated 7/17/2004 5:56:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sleeveless@zoominternet.net writes: > Um... does it count if you had two, and they were on the side, not in > the back? I did, and I didn't know anyone with a Camaro, primed or > otherwise, I didn't smoke tobacco cigarettes except on extremely rare > occasion, and I am proud to have never owned anything by Dokken. Both > braids were on the same side, BTW, and by the time I finally cut them, > I'd had them seven years and they were well past my waist (I could sit > on them if I tilted my head back). People tended not to believe they > were real. I still have them in a box. > Touche. Remember, I DID say I was being superficial, but actually, I think it DOES make a difference how they were worn (on the side, which I think connotes Ani DiFrancoish D.I.Y. female empowerment). And, I left out a very important consideration in this matter, which is the sex of the person wearing the braid(s). I tend to see things from a more androgynous perspective, and that is a personal shortcoming in my observations. I forget about sexual differences sometimes, not that I'm playing "Diamond Dogs" on perpetual repeat or anything. You have to agree with me that a small change in how you wear something can completely change its connotation. For example, if a guy wears an earring in his left ear vs. his right. Once upon a time, that was an indicator of his sexual preference, though I think this is going by the wayside over time. In the gay male subculture, there are handkerchief codes. Which back pocket you wear the hanky, what color it is, et cetera. Recently, this guy at my work suggested to me to unbutton the second button of my three-button polo shirt, saying nicely that it made me look wimpy. Unbuttoning one button apparently takes you from being Mark Mothersbaugh to Sean Connery in the eyes of the world? Designers regularly take stylistic cues from "the underground" and hawk it on the masses, (i.e., late '60s counterculture fashions in early to mid-'70s malls) which in turn makes the folk they got the cues from change their look. I remember quite clearly going with a good friend of mine to a Charleston mall in 1986, and her disgust at seeing some combat style boots in a store which were labeled "Esprit Hardcore." My friend, 18, wearing a Jody Foster's Army t-shirt, old overalls and army surplus boots, picked them up and examined them like they were toxic. All she could do was laugh, but perhaps she felt like her insular teenage world, and its ideologies and codes, had been somehow violated. The connotations of her choice of clothing were in danger of changing, and, if you are all about trying to set yourself apart from middle class suburban kids in Ralph Lauren, Calvin Klein and Reeboks, those boots in the mall are a red flag for you. So, if you are a person in Greenville, South Carolina in 1985 (which has come a long way, thank God) who sees someone on television with a braid like Aimee's and you take that cue and emulate it into your own subculture, that stylistic cue's connotations have changed, at least in the geographic area where that subculture resides. Agreed? I am NOT saying Aimee Mann is a redneck, I promise. If anything, she was a prototype to people like Ani Difranco. I loves me some Aimee Mann. Now get me a Bud and turn on the tv...NASCAR's on! - --Mark S. np Starflyer 59 I Am The Portuguese Blues ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 13:51:57 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] General Public JRT456@aol.com wrote: >The new Dokken album is really good. They should be on the Curiosa Tour. > > But the question remains whether or not you have/had a rat tail. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 15:36:01 EDT From: LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] General Public In a message dated 7/17/2004 1:52:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sleeveless@zoominternet.net writes: > But the question remains whether or not you have/had a rat tail. > Or if you do something that makes college professors' neck hair stand on end and not differentiate between connotation and denotation, which I did in my last post. D'oh! Mmmmm, donut. - --Mark S., who had a sort-of rat tail for about five minutes in early 1984, when a drunk friend (so was I) cut my hair to give me the Thompson Twins singer's look I was trying to go for, but my dad would have nothing of it and I had to get a buzz (I was 16) np Dead Artist Syndrome Happy Hour ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 16:40:13 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] General Public In a message dated 7/17/04 3:53:28 PM, LkDylaninthmvies@aol.com writes: > Or if you do something that makes college professors' neck hair stand on > end > and not differentiate between connotation and denotation, which I did in my > last post. > Don't worry, Mark. You know what they say. Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't even make a living as teachers, tend to overcompensate. When they should, in fact, be getting us coffee. And a donut, too. One with those little sprinkles on it. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:03:52 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: [loud-fans] this is pop Experience Music Project has put out a book called "This is Pop", edited by Eric Weisbard, a compilation of essays or articles or whatever from a variety of writers and musicians, including John Darnielle from the Mountain Goats (apparently "attending to the web postings of hair metal fans"). Has anyone read it? Jen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:46:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] this is pop On Sat, 17 Jul 2004, Jenny Grover wrote: > Experience Music Project has put out a book called "This is Pop", edited > by Eric Weisbard, a compilation of essays or articles or whatever from a > variety of writers and musicians, including John Darnielle from the > Mountain Goats (apparently "attending to the web postings of hair metal > fans"). Has anyone read it? No, but I heard a recording of Darnielle giving that talk (I think the whole book is various papers that were presented out loud at the EMP) and found it solidly interesting. a ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V4 #195 *******************************