From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V4 #158 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Friday, June 11 2004 Volume 04 : Number 158 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] well, they call them custards in Newport [Jim Davies ] Re: [loud-fans] A visit to the Dr. (Dr. Rhythm, that is...) [dmw ] RE: [loud-fans] too rock for you? ["Aaron Milenski" ] RE: [loud-fans] too rock for you? ["Fortissimo" ] Re: [loud-fans] Reed, and beyond [dennis ] Re: [loud-fans] Reed, and beyond [dc ] Re: [loud-fans] too rock for you? [Jenny Grover ] Re: [loud-fans] too rock for you? ["Fortissimo" ] Re: [loud-fans] too rock for you? ["Michael Wells" ] Re: [loud-fans] mix review [AWeiss4338@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:36:34 +0100 (BST) From: Jim Davies Subject: [loud-fans] well, they call them custards in Newport The Guardian weekend had an interview with the Concretes, in which they expressed an affinity for the Velvet Underground, who "couldn't play their instruments" either. I love Lou Reed's Take No Prisoners. Only for Sweet Jane and Walk on the Wild Side. But then, that's almost half the set. It's the control, and the adlibs, that make it work so well. Any jokes are just thrown from the runaway train (along with half the songs): e.g., came-home-last-night-found-my-wife-in-the-living-room-with-a-volkswagen -said-how-d'ya-get-there-she-said-took-a-right-at-the-kitchen-aint-that- funny-ha-ha-ha-anyway I loved New York when it came out, but it doesn't seem to keep well. "What's Good" is another of his songs-so-good-they-make-it-seem-like- maybe-the-album-is-good-and-you-are-just-being-lazy. But you're not being lazy; the albums don't work. Maybe they do in another universe, another timestream where everything else didn't happen. At the other end of his career, the Primitives stuff is amazing. And, hey, I can't help but love Loaded. Pat Fish had it right: A thing of beauty is a joy forever For ever and ever and ever and ever A thing of beauty is a thing to treasure For ever and ever and ever and ever Like Taking Tiger Mountain, Loaded as well Sterling and Nancy, the Sikkorskis from Hell A thing of beauty is a joy forever But be careful where you walk I love the whole album. Every single song makes me thing of sunlit mornings standing in the kitchen of Max's apartment in Fort Green, coffee and cigarettes. Or the summer of 1988, back in College, just before dawn, when the party has sublimed, and people flop like clocks on the chairs, lie on the floor, or look out over the lawn, and it feels like the beginning of a new age. And Bill Nelson's version of Lonesome Cowboy Bill. And the Soft Boys' version of Train Round the Bend. Maybe people back in Newport would like Lou's solo stuff. After all, the bakery seems to do a reasonable trade in custards, and there's not much good in them, either: the kind of fat and sugar rush you grow out of, one way or another. x Jim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:47:23 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] What's Welsh for Egg Creme? On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Dan Sallitt wrote: > > I'm going to be petty here, too, but I really want to point out that Reed > > can't sing, can't play guitar and when he does both at once both aspects are > > even worse. > > I dunno, I think he's a pretty good rhythm guitar player in the VU. A > fair number of the songs on THE VELVET UNDERGROUND, VU and LOADED are > built around rhythm guitar play, sometimes to the point of showing off. > - Dan yeah, and while it would be hard to argue that Reed was ever a "good" singer in a technical sense, i think in the VU days he sang much better for the songs. there's not necessarily much technically "right" about his phrasing and intonation on "pale blue eyes" but it's a powerful and affecting performance anyway. i dunno. it's always hard to know what's going on from the outside, but to me it feels like between "loaded" and "transformer" he just plain got lazy. (yknow what, i'm checking up on mself here, and i've never actually heard the '72 solo record. but those were almost all old songs anyway. so "transformer" is where he jumped the shark, as far as i'm concerned, some islands of good stuff in the past 30 years notwithstanding.) i like "egg cream," actually. kinda sounds to me like he's trying to rip off girlfriend-era matthew sweet. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:27:09 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] A visit to the Dr. (Dr. Rhythm, that is...) On Sun, 30 May 2004, Gil Ray wrote: > On to the next song.....(god, these are boring. It's > a nice hot day, so a cocktail is in order, I think! I just wanted to publicly thank Gil for sharing these with us. I love studio diaries in general, and Gil does great ones. Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:07:44 -0700 (PDT) From: zoom@muppetlabs.com Subject: [loud-fans] [Fwd: Reed, and beyond] Aaron and I thought some folks might be interested in his responses to the albums whose names I tossed out, and so here is that. Andy - ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Reed, and beyond From: "Aaron Milenski" Date: Wed, June 9, 2004 11:38 am To: zoom@muppetlabs.com - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not to be argumenmtative or anything like that, just to quickly show you where I'm coming from: >BLUE, COURT & SPARK, I personally can't stand Joni Mitchell. She's a great storyteller and imagist, but I don't connect with her worldview at all, and I just plain can't stand her singing style and melodies. I just spent the last week discussing BLUE with a 50-something rock historian type, and I listened to it several times, keeping in mind all the ways he praised it, and I still can't stand it. You can't say I didn't give it its fair due. >12 SONGS, This is great. My favorite Newman album. Totally different world than Perhacs in terms of musical style, lyrical intent, etc, so not comparable. Both are great. >STARSAILOR, I love this too...one of my favorite experimental rock albums. Though Buckley is a singer/songwriter, sort of, this album is way off in another plane, as is: >ASTRAL WEEKS, Truly one of a kind, no? Like STARSAILOR, it's got a lot of jazz behind it, which makes it not really a "singer/songwriter" album. The flute annoys me, but otherwise I do love this album (and it took me many, many years to "get" this one.) >THE WILD THE INNOCENT AND THE E STREET SHUFFLE, Actually maybe my favorite Bruce album...but a "rock" album. >MY AIM IS TRUE, Also a "rock" album. I think the production is flat on this album and a few songs are kinda dull (though most are great.) THIS YEAR'S MODEL is my Elvis pick. >SLUG LINE, I've never heard this. The only of his albums I've heard all the way through is BRING THE FAMILY, which is excellent, but not really to my tastes. >HEAT TREATMENT, I like HOWLIN WIND and SQUEEZING OUT SPARKS better, mostly because of two terrible songs on HEAT TREATMENT ("Black Honey" and...um, "Help Me Shake It" maybe?) but he was great in the early days. Again, these are "rock" records. >HIGHWAY 61 REVISITED, Better than Linda, no doubt. Better than anything, maybe. >PINK MOON, I find this a little overrated, as are all of Drake's albums. I like them, they're unique and distinct, but I have trouble keeping focus through an entire Drake album. >GRACE, I think this has moments, but mostsly I find it terribly boring. He needed an editor. >SAPPHIE, I've never heard of this. Something to investigate. He's been compared to A. Mo(o)re, and I love FLYING DOESN'T HELP. >LIFE'S A RIOT WITH SPY VS. SPY. I never liked him . I don't think I've heard all of this album, but other than "Great Leap Forward" he just did nothing for me. Anyway, though, that's a great list. I obviously couldn't make claim that PARALLELLOGRAMS is "better" than this batch of great records. I think my claim came partly from narrowly defining singer/songwriter music as the mellow kind, which would leave out any rock record by a single artist, including my personal favorite by Elliott Murphy. Oh, and here's one for you...you may have never heard of it, but in the Christian rock world it's considered the greatest album ever by anyone: Larry Norman's ONLY VISITING THIS PLANET. And it is totally great. As much as I disagree with a lot of his lyrics, I think they're fascinating and ingenious. _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:24:44 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: [loud-fans] too rock for you? Umm... so... our favorite lyricist list isn't supposed to include "rock"? And yet we can include Scott? I'm confused. I thought this thread was about rock lyricists, or at least people you would find in the pop/rock section of a record store. I had my list ready to go, but gee... they're mostly rock people. The mellow brand of singer/songwriter so often bores me to tears musically, and if the music doesn't grab me first and foremost, then I'm not listening, great lyrics or no. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:38:43 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] too rock for you? >Umm... so... our favorite lyricist list isn't supposed to include "rock"? No, those comments weren't about the favorite lyricist thread. I was talking about the "singer/songwriter" genre, as it has been understood over the years, which is that it's a 70s offshoot of folk and folk-rock with instrospective songwriters whose music is thoughtful and generally mellow. I only used that definition to explain my choice of the Linda Perhacs album as my favorite in the genre, not to narrow the discussion in any way. Great lyricists not only can rock, but they can be in bands too. :-) so let's see your list!! _________________________________________________________________ Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:20:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: [loud-fans] A visit to the Dr. (Dr. Rhythm, that is...) Thanks, Doug! Another post is on the way. (gettin' gritty with guitar sounds...) I am also saddened by Quine's death, and it reminds me of one of those wonderful revenge stories that you thought you'd never get to do...In 1984, ex-Happy Eggs bandmates of mine converged upon our 10 year high school reunion, in Charlotte NC. There was an awful cover band playing live, that let us talk them into borrowing their gear for a song. In high school, we were in a glam rock band, and most of our schoolmates were very snotty upper class preppie jerks. It gave us great pleasure to rip into Blank Generation at the reunion. They all acted like it was great. We knew better. Gil - --- dmw wrote: > On Sun, 30 May 2004, Gil Ray wrote: > > > On to the next song.....(god, these are boring. > It's > > a nice hot day, so a cocktail is in order, I > think! > > I just wanted to publicly thank Gil for sharing > these with us. > I love studio diaries in general, and Gil does great > ones. > > Thanks! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 16:27:22 -0400 From: glenn mcdonald Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Reed, and beyond OK, the greatest active lyricist is John Samson of the Weakerthans. Richard Shindell is second, and then it's a long way to third. Some other people I feel like I can count on to say *something* interesting more often than not: David Steinhart of Smart Brown Handbag John Darnielle of the Mountain Goats Richard Buckner Stephin Merritt Current album being wrecked for me by shitty lyrics: Marbles, by Marillion glenn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:32:31 -0500 From: "Fortissimo" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] too rock for you? On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:38:43 -0400, "Aaron Milenski" said: > so let's see your list!! I doubt I could really make one, since I pay less attention to lyrics than to music (as I've mentioned a zillion times...) - but this discussion has reminded me of some good moments. For one, I think Brian Eno is greatly underrated as a lyricist. Obviously, his production and use of the recording studio, and general image as theorizer, have overshadowed his lyrics - as has the fact that more than half of his albums don't have lyrics. But even though he's stated that for him, lyrics are the last thing to arrive, and often originate more as sounds for voices to sing than as sense, not only does he do that well, so his lyrics always *sound* good, but I think he admirably avoids cliche and uses striking images that help cement the song's sound world for listeners. I'll use "St. Elmo's Fire" as an example (from _Another Green World_). The chorus is primarily the two lines "in the cool August moon / in the blue August moon," and that not only sets the mood (twilit, restful, exhausted), but the sheer sound of the words (those "oo"s) furthers that image-setting. And then there are the last lines: "Then we rested in a desert / Where the bones were white as teeth, sir / And we saw St Elmo's fire / Splitting ions in the ether" - - followed by one of the best solos Robert Fripp ever performed, which illustrates perfectly that last (literally) electric line. Okay, "teeth, sir" is a bit of a Reg* - but I can excuse it, both because it's actually kind of funny (and the song needs a bit of lightness) and because, given Eno's predilections, for all I know it's actually an anagram or something. (* a "Reg" is the use of a superfluous name or appellation solely to create a rhyme - named, of course, after Robyn Hitchcock's frequent use of same ("All aboard / Brenda's iron sledge / Please don't call me Reg / It's not my name"). Hitchcock gets a pass, because usually he knows he's doing it because it's absurd - and in the case of "Reg," above, it arguably means "regina" (i.e., queen), since the song is pretty clearly about ruinous Thatcherite policies...) And then there's Elvis Costello. Okay, when you write as much as he has, and you're as driven to cleverness as he is, there will be some clunkers in there. But at his best, his wit serves meaning, and concision; one example (which someone else recently cited) is from "Accidents Will Happen": "There's so many fish in the sea / That only rise up through the sweat and smoke like mercury." As is often the case with Costello, he begins by dissecting a cliche: "there's more than one fish in the sea," which of course is usually said to reassure the romantically wounded. So our wounded lover hits the clubs - "the sweat and smoke" - where, indeed, there's much to choose from. "Rise up" obviously evokes sexuality, both in its slightly rude pun but also in the conventional metaphor of heat: rising temperature, thus the rising mercury. But Costello also wouldn't be (early) Costello without a large dose of cynicism - and the juxtaposition of "mercury" with "fish," as well as the image of fish rising through murky or polluted waters, suggests teh presence of a poisonous desperation as well. - ------------------------------- ...Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ :: Solipsism is its own reward :: :: --Crow T. Robot ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:59:23 -0700 From: dennis Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Reed, and beyond glenn mcdonald wrote: > OK, the greatest active lyricist is John Samson of the Weakerthans. > Richard Shindell is second, and then it's a long way to third. You live in a great world, Glenn. I wish mine were so black & white. Dennis dennis@illusions.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 14:17:41 -0700 From: dc Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Reed, and beyond On Wednesday, June 9, 2004, at 08:54 PM, Bradley Skaught wrote: > I think the finest lyricist in rock is Bowie. I want to single out > "Young > Americans" as one of the most brilliant pieces of lyric writing i've > ever > come across. I'm going to cut and paste from an email conversation I > had > with some friends about Bowie, and this song in particular... > "Here Bowie decides to make a soul record, but not the Mod soul he > grew up > on--instead he makes the kind of popular soul music that has really > crossed > over into the mainstream conciousness. And he uses the opportunity to > write > a song that is fundamentally about the absorption of peripheral > cultural > identities into the mainstream identity, and how once those aspects are > absorbed into the mainstream they lose their ability to provide any of > the > individuals involved (both from "inside" the origin culture and in the > mainstream) with the kind of redemptive and satisfying experience the > aspect > once held. It also reveals the failure of that cultural aspect to be a > truly > unifying and purifying force for the original community--it > illuminates the > shakey foundations at the heart of the cultural phenomema we often > rely on > for validation (as Bowie says, 'not a myth left from the ghetto.')" i always really liked the "aaaalllllllllllllll-right" part. doug c vicinity of seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 17:57:22 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] too rock for you? Aaron Milenski wrote: > No, those comments weren't about the favorite lyricist > thread. First off, sorry about the confusion. > so let's see your list!! Alright, it's more or less of the top of my head, so I'm sure I'm missing someone I truly admire. Second, let me say that lyrics don't have to be poetic masterpieces to get under my skin. As often as not, something less artful that just hits the nail on the head will prompt the "great lyrics" response from me. And lastly, I'm sure there's tons of great stuff I haven't heard that you all have. So, here goes, in no particular order of preference: Clint Conley Roger Miller Elliott Smith Mark Lanegan Mike Johnson Ben Shepherd Ian McKaye Joe Strummer Michael Stipe Robyn Hitchcock and of course Scott Miller I plan to further investigate Townes Van Zandt, Tim Buckley, and Lee Hazlewood, because I like what I've heard out of them. Question, discuss, or ignore at will Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 18:55:52 -0500 From: "Michael Wells" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] too rock for you? Jenny writes: > I plan to further investigate Townes Van Zandt, TvZ was for my money the single best lyricist the US has ever produced. The true voice, heartfelt and poetic without being confessional...he wrote songs that could make you smile at the wry turn of a phrase, and others that would flat crack your heart. Fortunately his catalog has received a goodly amount of attention, and I'd recommend "Live at the Old Quarter" if you don't already have it Jenny. Hell, I'd recommend everything he's ever done. Overall my favorite writer is Robyn Hitchcock. The older stuff full of double-entendre, half-lit inferences and playful rhymes...and the newer, more direct and emotionally exposed version...I love it all. I listen to him and think that's how I should write songs. Songs about fish, sex, trains, senses, feelings. Not far behind TvZ for me sits Tom Russell. Not really for the 'Gallo del Cielo' stuff, but his more recent work ("Borderland," etc) which is a little more circumspect but no less impactful. He's written off as "too Southwest" by Nashville and "too shallow" by people who only know the songs Dave Alvin has made famous, but he's one of America's best and IMO vastly under-appreciated. The current upswell in roots / "Americana" quality includes a number of very talented young writers..Peter Mulvey, Kris Delmhorst, Paul Curreri, Mark Erelli. Perhaps the best among them, however, is a kid named Jeffrey Foucault...co-feglist members have heard me rave about him to distraction, save it to say he's my favorite thing going right now. And he's a nice guy to boot. More at www.jeffreyfoucault.com Chris Smither takes a while to write songs, but when he does they're dandy. Peter Case turns a nice phrase, though I can really only get myself to like about half his stuff...same with John Doe. I enjoy the way M. Ward lyrics kind of flitter on the edge of understanding, but it's not something I like all the time. I adore Grant Lee Phillips. Forging ahead solo has only sharpened his lyrical sense, and his latest release "Virginia Creeper" is currently #1 in my 2004 class. Michael Stipe was the best I ever heard at being able to express the present as something being moved through...being able to put me IN a place and really get a sense of time passing by..."Green Grow the Rushes," "Nightswimming." In more of the 'rawk' vein, Peter Garrett (M. Oil), Justin Currie (Del Amitri), Mike Scott (Waterboys) and Neil Peart (Rush) are always welcome. I enjoyed Bob Mould's work in Sugar much more than in the Du...and Zappa, well...that's a whole 'nother email, right Jeffrey? :) Michael "what, nobody's mentioned Belinda Carlisle yet? I'm shocked!" Wells ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:11:03 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: [loud-fans] mix review I have two mixes from Andrea Weiss, the earliest of which had to be redone due to technical difficulties, and during which time the tracklist went AWOL, so it will be a while before that one gets reviewed. But here's the more recent of the two. 1- Josh Ritter- Snow is Gone Good song for an April mix, which this was. 2- Autumn Defense- The World (Is Turning Our Way) Sort of Glen Campbell-ish overtones (a la "Gentle On My MInd"). According to her notes, Wilco folks are involved. 3- Jonatha Brooke- Back in the Circus Accordian, piano, and waltz time. 4- Sarah Harmer- Almost Very pretty chorus. Vocals a bit too alt-country in style for me, but this seems to be a grower for me. 5- Alanis Morrissette- Hands Clean Really mainstream, slick production. True confessions type lyrics. Altogether overcooked, and the vocal stylings are not to my taste. 6- The Alice Project- Puke Pleasant pop break-up song with funny lyrics. 7-Kathleen Edwards- One More Song the Radio Won't Like Neil Young-ish bitter pop ballad. 8- Joy of Cooking- If Some God 70's bluesy pop with a touch of Janis Joplin in the vocal stylings. 9- Elliott Smith- Bottle Up and Explode Andrea declares this her fave off "XO", and while it's not mine, it is a song I like a lot. Affecting and pretty, which Elliott did so well. 10- Mary Lou Lord- 43 Very breathy vocals with acoustic guitar. Pretty enough, but rather generic. Andrea informs me that she dedicated the album this is from to Elliott Smith. 11- Gingersol- Good Day for a War Generic power pop with undistinguished vocals. 12- Matthew Sweet- Superdeformed This is the "Son of Altered Beast" version. A fave M.S. song of mine, but I prefer the other version. It's edgier and grittier. 13- Paula Carino- Tip of the Iceberg My apologies to Paula fans, but this song is boring. 14- Pretenders- Popstar Snidely funny. 15- Some Girls- Necessito Generic and pretty boring. Juliana Hatfield has always been very hit and miss to me. 16- Jane Weidlen- The Good Wife See above. Hookier, but the hooks aren't anything we haven't heard a lot before. More "save it for the priest" lyrics. 17- Natalie Merchant- House Carpenter An old British song done in a sort of Appalachian style, which should work, but here it doesn't, because the vocals are bloodless (and it's a pretty passionate song) and the arrangement is blah. There are much better versions of this song out there. 18- Janis Joplin- Piece of My Heart I never much cared for her voice or style, but I always like this song the best. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:07:54 -0500 From: "Fortissimo" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] too rock for you? On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 18:55:52 -0500, "Michael Wells" said: > The current upswell in roots / "Americana" quality includes a number of > very > talented young writers..Peter Mulvey Wow - Michael must be *really* impressed with Mulvey, since he lists him even though Mulvey's from...Milwaukee ;) - --Jeff, not accidentally posting this to the Hitchcock list despite the post it responds to centrally concerning Hitchcock... - ------------------------------- ...Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ :: Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb :: --Batman ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:08:03 -0500 From: "Michael Wells" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] too rock for you? > Wow - Michael must be *really* impressed with Mulvey, since he lists him > even though Mulvey's from...Milwaukee ;) Yeah, I know. It's like some crazy dream. In a strange twist of fate, that Jeffrey Foucault guy whose work I'm so taken with is from...get this...Ft. Atkinson (or just "Fort" if you want to appear local). Peter was his mentor, and the guy who really started getting him out and in front of people. I do try to keep unabashed fanboy raving to a minimum, but folks interested in what *really good* Americana sounds like should look up Jeffrey's work - whether online, in person, or on disc. This isn't folk music by effete guys in black turtlenecks playing basement espresso bars, but real mud-on-the-boots stuff...yet with an incredible depth and poignancy to it. I hear a lot of TvZ, some Greg Brown, and certainly early John Prine in his work, but there's still something unique and identifiable as his own there. The kid is in his mid-twenties and writes like he's twice that age. It is impossible to recommend his work highly enough. For those out East he's recently relocated to Boston, and will be playing the circuit there as his fan base builds...so be sure to catch him if you can. Michael "and, unbelievably, he's from Wisconsin" Wells ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 00:11:35 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: [loud-fans] i'm almost caught up! Another mix review! George Mastalir sent me this one and I've been enjoying it quite a lot. Thanks! 1- Wilco- At Least That's What You Said He apologized for putting "alt-country" on here in the form of Wilco, but this song really owes a much bigger debt to Neil Young. Quiet beginnings fool you into turning your stereo up so you can be blasted by the long, distorted guitar solo. Okay, but a bit self-indulgent. 2- American Music Club- Ladies and Gentlemen, It's Time Shuffly rhythm, loungy vocals, a little jazzy, and very nocturnal. 3- Kingdom Flying Club- Artists are Boring Hey, I resent that. Basically an adoring love song. Piano power pop. 4- X-Wife- Eno This does sound like early pop Eno. Fun! So, who are these guys? 5- Sue Wilkinson- You Gotta Be a Hustler If You Wanna Get On Funny song about bad girls doing better than good ones, despite the moral teachings. 6- The Feelies- Too Far Gone Vintage, manic Feelies- always a good thing. One of my fave Feelies songs. 7- A.C. Newman- Drink To Me Babe Then Hooky pop with a slidey guitar and a whistle solo. I really like this. Tell me more. 8- The Postal Service- The District Sleeps Alone Tonight Strings dance in and out over skittery staccato beats and electronica, and pop vocals. 9- The Bigger Lovers- I Resign Almost bubblegum, and quite catchy. 10- Mary Ann Farley- For You To Do That Wow, I love that hook! Could almost be a Loud Family song. Left Banke type strings, too. Tell me more. 11- The Mountain Goats- Slow West Vultures I'm still not sure what I think of this band. Something about the vocals never hits me right, but the songs are rather engagingly strange. 12- The Herms- Record Machine "I Wanna Be Your Dog" meets modern pop. 13- The Korgis- Everybody's Got To Learn Sometime A little torchy, orchestral, old school pop in the vein of 60's solo female pop singers. Pretty. 14- Rose Polenzani- Fell More hooky, pretty power pop. Nice! It's a little alt-countryish, but in ways I don't mind. (I really don't hate all alt-country). 15- Ambulance (LTD)- Heavy Lifting Their disc arrived in my mail as an unsolicited promo back before I'd ever heard of them or they had added the LTD, and songs from it quickly began making their way onto mixes I made. 16- Travis Morrison- Born in '72 Sample heavy pop about said generation. 17- Steven Malkmus and the Jicks- Fly It says "J.K. & Co. cover" but I don't know who that is, since I don't know the song from elsewhere. Echoey vocals over organ drone rock. A strange twist here or there. Some weird, shrieky vocals and a manic, distorted guitar. 18- Systems Officer- Systems Officer New wavy electronic pop. 19- The Bens- Wicked Little Town (Tommy Gnosis Version) Piano based (Ben Folds) pop ballad with nice hooks and a pretty verse melody. Is that Ben Lee on vocals? 20- Our Lady of the Highway- Brown Dress He goes on and on an awful lot about her hair and not so much about the dress. Rhythm guitar heavy, mid-tempo ballady, songwritery pop. This one I don't much care for. 21- Bonus Track It's Love Tractor, and I know I have it, but I can't think of the name of it (and didn't feel like digging out vinyl tonight to figure it out). Typical instrumental Love Tractor fare. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 23:23:09 -0500 From: "Heyman, Elo A" Subject: FW: [loud-fans] favorite lyricists Looking through my cds, I can't think of 1 cd I have that I don't really like the lyrics on. So instead of exact favorites, here's some that get me: I agree on Robin Hitchcock for your Costello reason: He'll always lead with a cliche, but then turns it into something more personal on the next line. "no one gives you anything, unless of course you ask for it." "so you think you're in love? well, you probably are" Brian Eno had a hand in writing Miss Shapiro, which just sounds great sang. I'd replace Morrisey with Stuart Murdoch for B&S. While covering somewhat similar subjects, B&S lyrics seem more "worldly harsh" and Morrisey more "personally angsty." The sheer number of distinct characters that are referenced in some songs (The State I am In, This is Just a Modern Rock Song) is a trick I've never heard from any other rock/country/pop artist either. Next is Gerard Langley of the Blue Aeroplanes, though I really can't decide if I would still like him as much if his poetry was over your standard boring fingerpicked accompaniment rather than really adventurous music. Billy Bragg is another. Also fires off a lot of clunkers like Elvis C, and almost has too many soccer metaphors, but still his great lines are great. Jeff Tweedy is also pretty good. Failure set to music. But not such terrible failure that you don't want to try again. This one is kind of a wrestling match between him & Paul Westerburg. Neil Hannon of the Divine Comedy. The sound of snide success. Railing off the exact same idea line after line in "Gin Soaked Boy" never gets old. Jude is the last one, but he's only put out 1 cd of work so far, so that's not really enough material to judge. favorite songs lyrically, from songwriters that I normally think are just ok: key west intermezzo - john mellencamp sometimes lester piggott - james worst lyricists in good bands: art alexis in everclear. "I will buy you a new life all shiny and new" just kills me everytime i hear it. words that are rhymed with themselves in general burn my ears. incubus guy --from "wish you were here" lyrics are something like 'The sky resembled a backlit canopy with holes punched in it, and I am HAPPY!" Me too Incubus guy, and thanks for describing what stars look like (which most people have experienced)using a description that most people have never experienced. Andrew - -----Original Message----- From: owner-loud-fans@smoe.org on behalf of Fortissimo Sent: Thu 6/10/2004 3:32 PM To: Hell hath no fury like the serial comma scorned Cc: Subject: RE: [loud-fans] too rock for you? On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:38:43 -0400, "Aaron Milenski" said: > so let's see your list!! I doubt I could really make one, since I pay less attention to lyrics than to music (as I've mentioned a zillion times...) - but this discussion has reminded me of some good moments. For one, I think Brian Eno is greatly underrated as a lyricist. Obviously, his production and use of the recording studio, and general image as theorizer, have overshadowed his lyrics - as has the fact that more than half of his albums don't have lyrics. But even though he's stated that for him, lyrics are the last thing to arrive, and often originate more as sounds for voices to sing than as sense, not only does he do that well, so his lyrics always *sound* good, but I think he admirably avoids cliche and uses striking images that help cement the song's sound world for listeners. I'll use "St. Elmo's Fire" as an example (from _Another Green World_). The chorus is primarily the two lines "in the cool August moon / in the blue August moon," and that not only sets the mood (twilit, restful, exhausted), but the sheer sound of the words (those "oo"s) furthers that image-setting. And then there are the last lines: "Then we rested in a desert / Where the bones were white as teeth, sir / And we saw St Elmo's fire / Splitting ions in the ether" - followed by one of the best solos Robert Fripp ever performed, which illustrates perfectly that last (literally) electric line. Okay, "teeth, sir" is a bit of a Reg* - but I can excuse it, both because it's actually kind of funny (and the song needs a bit of lightness) and because, given Eno's predilections, for all I know it's actually an anagram or something. (* a "Reg" is the use of a superfluous name or appellation solely to create a rhyme - named, of course, after Robyn Hitchcock's frequent use of same ("All aboard / Brenda's iron sledge / Please don't call me Reg / It's not my name"). Hitchcock gets a pass, because usually he knows he's doing it because it's absurd - and in the case of "Reg," above, it arguably means "regina" (i.e., queen), since the song is pretty clearly about ruinous Thatcherite policies...) And then there's Elvis Costello. Okay, when you write as much as he has, and you're as driven to cleverness as he is, there will be some clunkers in there. But at his best, his wit serves meaning, and concision; one example (which someone else recently cited) is from "Accidents Will Happen": "There's so many fish in the sea / That only rise up through the sweat and smoke like mercury." As is often the case with Costello, he begins by dissecting a cliche: "there's more than one fish in the sea," which of course is usually said to reassure the romantically wounded. So our wounded lover hits the clubs - "the sweat and smoke" - where, indeed, there's much to choose from. "Rise up" obviously evokes sexuality, both in its slightly rude pun but also in the conventional metaphor of heat: rising temperature, thus the rising mercury. But Costello also wouldn't be (early) Costello without a large dose of cynicism - and the juxtaposition of "mercury" with "fish," as well as the image of fish rising through murky or polluted waters, suggests teh presence of a poisonous desperation as well. ------------------------------- ...Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ :: Solipsism is its own reward :: :: --Crow T. Robot ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:27:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: [loud-fans] Word(s) Like Jen, I guess I'm more into the music than the words(that will become very apparent whenever the record gets released...), but I do know what I like and what I don't like. It's REALLY hard to find good lyrics in prog. I find that lyrics that do stand out for me usually end up being funny, acerbic or sweet. Sometimes all at once. For pure joy-in-the-heart sweetness, I can think of no one better than Andy Partridge. Oh, he can certainly get nasty and bitter, but it's the sweet ones that turn me on. Stephin Merritt can lay on the fey, but it all works for me. He puts it out in a simple way, and it speaks to me. Scott Miller doesn't put it out in a simple way, and while his meanings usually zip right over my head, I know the passion he puts into his words, and in the context of his music, melodies and arrangements, they work beautifully. To this day I don't know what "Causal" means and I had to sing it. (not too sure how to even spell it...) Ween and Flaming Lips can make me smile, sometimes even laugh out loud. Same with Robyn Hitchcock -"she stands on the stairs, she's still wearing flares" (maybe not word for word here), from "My Wife And My Dead Wife" cracks me up alot. I guess those Beatles probably wrote more brilliant lyrics than bad ones. Oh yeah, I'll throw in Alex Chilton. Sometimes his words can suffocate me (not a bad thing - most of Sister Lovers just gets so....thick). Gil __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 02:20:37 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] mix review In a message dated 6/10/2004 9:11:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sleeveless@zoominternet.net writes: 1- Josh Ritter- Snow is Gone Good song for an April mix, which this was. One of the better singer/songwriters out there. Hello Starling (the album title) is good late night listening. 2- Autumn Defense- The World (Is Turning Our Way) Sort of Glen Campbell-ish overtones (a la "Gentle On My MInd"). According to her notes, Wilco folks are involved. It does, and i like that, more than I was expecting with the whole album. This is John Stirratt's and Pat Sansone's side project. From Circles. 3- Jonatha Brooke- Back in the Circus Accordian, piano, and waltz time. On purpose, what i like about Brooke is that she does mix it up at times. This is the title track to her current one, and it's her best, she finally made an album with consistantly good music, and not just a few good songs and filler. 4- Sarah Harmer- Almost Very pretty chorus. Vocals a bit too alt-country in style for me, but this seems to be a grower for me. Ditto on a grower, it took me awhile to warm up to it too. The album is a bit more mellow than this song, but what i like about Harmer is that she is darker than most music of this type, and has something to say. All Of Our Names is the title, and even though there is no song with this name, it's a lyric, the song it's in is about common humanity everywhere, very political and interesting. 5- Alanis Morrissette- Hands Clean Really mainstream, slick production. True confessions type lyrics. Altogether overcooked, and the vocal stylings are not to my taste. She is an acquired taste, and at first I couldn't stand her. But this song, which has the title in the lyric, Under Rug Swept, and her second album, Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie, made me reconsider her. Her latest, So Called Chaos, is a bit more organic, although I wish she was a little less confessional. 6- The Alice Project- Puke Pleasant pop break-up song with funny lyrics. Glad you like it. Alice Leon, the lead singer, can get a little darker than this too. I'd like to think this band will make it big someday, they have a big following in NJ, (their a local band for me) and it would be nice if they went national. They have the goods. From Overnight Sucess, and find out more at _www.thealiceproject.com_ (http://www.thealiceproject.com) . 7-Kathleen Edwards- One More Song the Radio Won't Like Neil Young-ish bitter pop ballad. A lot of critics have comapred her to Young, although I suspect it's becuase their both Canadian sometimes, something that does neither of them a favor. The whole album, Failer (not a typo) is like this, and certainly is better than most albums of this type. Like Harmer, on Zoe records, and both on majors on Canada. 8- Joy of Cooking- If Some God 70's bluesy pop with a touch of Janis Joplin in the vocal stylings. A very underratted band, but maybe that's because in the 70s, their heyday, rock wasn't ready for a women lead band, Grace Slick and Janis nonwithstanding. Terry Garthwaite and Toni Brown are the singers and leader of the band, with three other guys backing them up. Terry is the one who sounds like Janis. From their first albuim, selt titled, and the only one in print, their label was Captial, and if you do find any of their albums in the used bins, grab them. The band broke up many years ago. 9- Elliott Smith- Bottle Up and Explode Andrea declares this her fave off "XO", and while it's not mine, it is a song I like a lot. Affecting and pretty, which Elliott did so well. I agree. he will be missed for this and in general. 10- Mary Lou Lord- 43 Very breathy vocals with acoustic guitar. Pretty enough, but rather generic. Andrea informs me that she dedicated the album this is from to Elliott Smith. They were good friends, and one of Elliot's first solo tours was with her. She kind of gave him his start as a solo artist. I like this album a lot, Baby Blue, yes, the Badfinger song, but I kind of like her EP's on Kill Rock Stars a little better. Rubic Records is the label here. 11- Gingersol- Good Day for a War Generic power pop with undistinguished vocals. Yep. I bet they were much better as Mary Lou Lord's bakcing band for her last tour. Rubric threw this album in with Lord's whenI asked for a promo, and I wish they hadn't after listening to it. 12- Matthew Sweet- Superdeformed This is the "Son of Altered Beast" version. A fave M.S. song of mine, but I prefer the other version. It's edgier and grittier. I agree, and if I could find No Alternative I'd get it for this song. 13- Paula Carino- Tip of the Iceberg My apologies to Paula fans, but this song is boring. That's okay. This is my fave on Aquacade, but I know what you mean, some of her songs I like better than others. 14- Pretenders- Popstar Snidely funny. From Viva el Amore, one of their best albums, and overlooked. 15- Some Girls- Necessito Generic and pretty boring. Juliana Hatfield has always been very hit and miss to me. Another side project, Blake Babies for this one, Freda Love is also in this band. Not bad as far as this goes, but Autum Defense made a better album. Hatfield's new solo album, from what i've heard from it, is better. I agree, she could be more consistant. 16- Jane Weidlen- The Good Wife See above. Hookier, but the hooks aren't anything we haven't heard a lot before. More "save it for the priest" lyrics. The rest of Kissproof World isn't quite as confessional as this, this was an album just for her fans, and to make some cash. her best solo album though, the others are more 80s pop, and not as good. 17- Natalie Merchant- House Carpenter An old British song done in a sort of Appalachian style, which should work, but here it doesn't, because the vocals are bloodless (and it's a pretty passionate song) and the arrangement is blah. There are much better versions of this song out there. I've heard a few by now, and would agree. The House Carpenters Daughter isn't a bad album, but Merchant was so intent on teaching her audience about folk music that i felt like I was going to be quizzed about it after I finished listening. Recomedned if you want to teach someone about folk music. 18- Janis Joplin- Piece of My Heart I never much cared for her voice or style, but I always like this song the best. Me too. what came after Cheap Thrills, while good, also made me want her to go back to Big Brother, she was much better with them. A shame this is their only really good album. Thanks for the review! Andrea ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V4 #158 *******************************