From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V4 #86 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, March 25 2004 Volume 04 : Number 086 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] why i subscribe to airline mailing lists ["me" ] [loud-fans] at the end of the day, this seemed like loud-fodder ["Bradley] [loud-fans] Re: Nun ["Vallor" ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Nun [Stewart Mason ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Nun [Steve Holtebeck ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Nun [Stewart Mason ] Re: [loud-fans] Re: Nun ["Bradley Skaught" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:17:52 -0800 From: "me" Subject: [loud-fans] why i subscribe to airline mailing lists http://www.icelandair.com/index.jsp?branch=5153109&hash_link_id=8610805609905 0421069769 kraftwerk in reykjavik, 5/5/04 i'll be in or near Heathrow, starting my honeymoon, on 5/5/04 - -- An attitude of permanent indignation signifies great mental poverty. Politics compels its votaries to take that line and you see their minds growing more and more impoverished every day, from one burst of righteous anger to the next. Paul Valery, Tel Quel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:51:43 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: [loud-fans] Verlaines (fewer of them this time) Bradley: >>The Verlaines, even the really early Clean-esque stuff, don't have >>the same kind of home spun simplicity as some of the other bands of the >>time, nor the noisy artiness--you might even say they're the Game Theory of >>NZ pop! I guess it's that lack of noisy artiness that deludes me into hearing "simplicity". But I clearly need to bone up on the earlier stuff; my Verlaines records are what I guess you'd call "middle period". I certainly do not have enough... - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:37:52 -0500 From: Dave Walker Subject: [loud-fans] Churchy la iTMS Celebrity playlist here: http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum? playlistId=5892449 -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:14:21 -0800 From: "Bradley Skaught" Subject: [loud-fans] at the end of the day, this seemed like loud-fodder http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/03/24/inter national1038EST0558.DTL - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.639 / Virus Database: 408 - Release Date: 3/22/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:44:42 -0800 From: "Vallor" Subject: [loud-fans] Re: Nun > Most > folks I know who like The Verlaines owned an album or two for a long time > before it made much impression. Also, Graeme's voice can be an acquired > taste on the earlier, Flying Nun-era stuff--"approximate pitch" I think they > call it. The Verlaines, even the really early Clean-esque stuff, don't have > the same kind of home spun simplicity as some of the other bands of the > time, nor the noisy artiness--you might even say they're the Game Theory of > NZ pop! This seems true to me, it took me ages to really "get" the Verlaines as they should be "gotten". They have some immediate songs here and there but not generally speaking. I think they are tough to absorb, but extrordinarily rewarding once you start to appreciate them. I love them ! I think the best place to start with The Verlaines is early, Juvenilia specifically. Perhaps the new compilation, but I don't own that one yet and sequencing can make a world of difference. Sneaky Feelings' Sentimental Education was the first Flying Nun release I really got into...to be honest the only exposure to the label for me, prior to Sentimental Education had been The Chills' Rolling Moon (which I got back in 84 when GT were in Boston) and it didn't really bowl me over back then. Sentimental Education is subdued and beautiful with 3 great songwriters trading off and lovely arrangements done by The Verlaines' Graeme Downes and future Mutton Bird Don McGlashen. I would agree that this is one of the more overlooked of Flying Nun albums over here...because of Sneaky Feelings' name or their gentle pop sound, they were almost unanimously rejected (by people I knew in the US who were into the scene when it was happening) as being wimpy. The most overlooked Nun album, though plenty of people own it, is The Chills "Brave Words". Generally trashed by everyone who's seemingly ever spoken up about it (including Martin Phillips), I think it's a beautiful and subtle mood piece and while it may not be as immediate as Pink Frost or Heavenly Pop Hit, it is, by far, The Chills peak as far as I'm concerned. Mayo Thompson's peak as a producer as well. > Honestly, it seems like most folks who like that NZ > scene like it all... so the real challenge is selecting a > gateway band. The gateways for me were three, the aforementioned Sneaky Feelings "Sentimental Education", Tall Dwarfs compilation "Hello Cruel World" and The Clean's "Compilation", followed by The Chills' "Brave Words" & Kaleidoscope World (the Slash albums are spotty), The Bats (particularly "Daddy's Highway" and "Fear Of God"), Verlaines, Birds Nest Roys, Able Tasmans, JPS Experience ("Size Of Food" and especially the later "Bleeding Star") Bailter Space and The Gordons...pretty much the flood gates were open by then for me. On another subject, I have some stuff on eBay again at this URL... http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=cassetto including: Game Theory- Big Shot Chronicles+5 CD SEALED Game Theory Lyric And Photo Fan Club Book A.C. Marias One Of Our Girls Is Missing CD album Bruce Gilbert of Wire w/ 4AD folks Badly Drawn Boy Official Live CD 15 SONG PROMO Barbara Manning SF Seals - Now Here CD Peter Blegvad Kew.Rhone Enhanced CD w/ ROBERT WYATT tracks Dagmar Krause Tank Battles Hanns Eisler CD De Artsen- Conny Waves with a Shell CD pre-BETTIE SERVEERT Dredd Foole CD on FORCED EXPOSURE (Mission Of Burma) Helios Creed- Planet X CD on Amphetamine Reptile CHROME KFJC subscriber CD with live studio recordings of Six Organs Of Admittance Ruins Nikki Sudden Pavement- Slanted And Enchanted CD on FLYING NUN NZ Trembling Blue Stars - Her Handwriting CD post-Field Mice Vera Groningen 90 CD LIVE Sonic Youth Feelies De Artsen Giant Sand Scientists Spacemen 3 OFFICIAL BAND T-SHIRT Pavement- Original Official Pavement '92 Tour T-Shirt James Luther Dickinson- Dixie Fried LP (Jim Dickinson) Guided By Voices - Under The Bushes DOUBLE LP The Real Kids 2 orig LPs + press kit Outta Place/Hit You Hard 20 Solid Krypton Hits Onset/Offset NZ DIY Flying Nun with loads of Builders tracks Captain Sensible 1st 2 LPs with Robyn Hitchcock (The Damned) THE SMITHS 2x promo UK Buzz LPs exclusive version of How Soon Is Now + Live Meat Is Murder Hate Your Neighbors LP KBD PUNK with Toy Love (pre-Tall Dwarfs Knox & Bathgate) Proud Scum Nocturnal Projections (Peter and Graeme Jefferies) Trembling Blue Stars Her Handwriting dbl LP + Doo Wop Music 7" The New Christs 3 original 7"s post-Radio Birdman Rob Younger Roy Montgomery 3 7"s Submerged/split with Loren Mazzacane Connors/The Blanking Machine 1st Amendment benefit portfolio with 14 SIGNED PRINTS including R. Crumb, Will Eisner, Frank Miller & more Charles Bukowski and R. Crumb PROMO POSTER Go Naked magazine # 1 comics from Matt Groening Art Spiegelman Charles Burns Byron Coley, Mark Mothersbaugh, Robert Williams, Gary Panter Thanks- Dan Vallor ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 23:33:41 -0500 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Nun At 07:44 PM 3/24/2004 -0800, Vallor wrote: >The most overlooked Nun album, though plenty of people own it, is The Chills >"Brave Words". Generally trashed by everyone who's seemingly ever spoken up >about it (including Martin Phillips), I think it's a beautiful and subtle >mood piece and while it may not be as immediate as Pink Frost or Heavenly >Pop Hit, it is, by far, The Chills peak as far as I'm concerned. Mayo >Thompson's peak as a producer as well. Generally trashed? That seems odd, as I know that it was many listeners' introduction to the Chills (especially in the US, where I think it was their first proper release) and I know few Chills fans who don't have passionate feelings about "16 Heartthrobs" and "Look For the Good In Others" at the very least. I don't know that I'd call it my favorite Chills album -- I think that remains SUBMARINE BELLS -- but it at the very least is a damned sight better than the genuinely awful SOFT BOMB. S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:11:51 -0800 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Nun Stewart Mason wrote: > Generally trashed? That seems odd, as I know that it was many listeners' > introduction to the Chills (especially in the US, where I think it was > their first proper release) and I know few Chills fans who don't have > passionate feelings about "16 Heartthrobs" and "Look For the Good In > Others" at the very least. I don't know that I'd call it my favorite > Chills album -- I think that remains SUBMARINE BELLS -- but it at the very > least is a damned sight better than the genuinely awful SOFT BOMB. Genuinely awful? SOFT BOMB is one of the most gorgeous albums ever! - -Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:42:49 -0500 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Nun At 09:11 PM 3/24/2004 -0800, Steve Holtebeck wrote: >Stewart Mason wrote: >> I don't know that I'd call it my favorite >> Chills album -- I think that remains SUBMARINE BELLS -- but it at the very >> least is a damned sight better than the genuinely awful SOFT BOMB. > >Genuinely awful? SOFT BOMB is one of the most gorgeous albums ever! It *sounds* great, but other than "The Male Monster from the Id" and "Ocean Ocean," I've always thought the songwriting is terribly weak, especially coming after the remarkable string of KALEIDOSCOPE WORLD, BRAVE WORDS and SUBMARINE BELLS. And you know me, I bow to no one in my admiration of Van Dyke Parks, but hearing the remake of "Water Wolves" after the tremendous original version that was on the "Part Past Part Fiction" single (now on the SECRET BOX rarities collection), it just sounds like a botch. On the other hand, I'm apparently one of the few who really rates BRAVE WORDS, so maybe I'm not the best judge. S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 22:48:15 -0800 From: "Bradley Skaught" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Re: Nun > I think the best place to start with The Verlaines is early, > Juvenilia > specifically. Perhaps the new compilation, but I don't >own that one yet and > sequencing can make a world of difference. It's always quite a personal thing, but I think the sequencing on the new comp is just perfect. The Verlaines went through a lot of changes, and every album sounds completely different than the last so a good comp is a blessing. They're also one of those bands whose best songs work really well as the first or the last song, and running a whole bunch of them together can be tricky! I think anyone who really loves smart, sophisticated songwriting will love The Verlaines, but, like Dan and I have said, sometimes it can take awhile to really sink in. I also want to mention that "Mastercontrol", from the Graeme Downes' solo album, is easily one of my favorite songs ever. > because of Sneaky Feelings' name > or their gentle pop sound, they were almost unanimously > rejected (by people > I knew in the US who were into the scene when it was > happening) as being > wimpy. Again, the "Game Theory" syndrome--they don't have a "sound" that's been considered stylish in indie circles. They really are amazing songwriters, though, with distinctive voices. Stellar guitar playing, too--smart, intricate and very imaginative. The "best of" is called Positively George Street and they did a fantastic job of remixing everything to give it a little more substance and presence sonically. I love the albums, but I think the compilation is best. For some reason i'm in the mood to make declarations about my favorite things so i'll declare the compilation one of my very favorite albums. I haven't converted everyone to it yet, but the people who've "gotten" it have been profoundly taken with it! The book of the same name is a great rock book--a good tale about 80's Dunedin. > The most overlooked Nun album, though plenty of > people own it, is The Chills > "Brave Words". Amen! I didn't realize people didn't like it--i've always thought it was pure genius. The songs added from the 12" on the CD version make it even better. Have to agree with Stewart about Soft Bomb, though--I even sold it. I bought the "Male Monster From the Id" single and that was it. How great was that rarities set, though? I'm still loving it--especially the radio performances! > JPS > Experience ("Size Of Food" and especially the later > "Bleeding Star") More bargain bin gems--these guys are way overlooked. I'd also recommend any of the Straightjacket Fits albums. B PS Dan, i've got those Robin Gibb's for you--sned me an address. - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.639 / Virus Database: 408 - Release Date: 3/22/2004 ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V4 #86 ******************************