From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V4 #46 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Saturday, February 14 2004 Volume 04 : Number 046 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Neither wind nor rain nor any other reference (was Re: [loud-fans] History of ROCK redefined. Several times.) [] Re: [loud-fans] The Lesbian Industry? [steve ] [loud-fans] advantage in mites [Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Neither wind nor rain nor any other reference (was Re: [loud-fans] History of ROCK redefined. Several times.) If you're getting the Loveless record for Jen Trynin.. you'll be a little disappointed. She's relegated to harmony vocals and guitar. VERY good record, anyway! Phil F. NP(imh) "Stick To The Girl" - --- wsilvers@earthlink.net wrote: > To the contrary, I was a big fan of Ms. Trynin, > though regrettably I missed her only live appearance > here back in 1995 (she was opening for Buffalo Tom). > I could never much interest any of my pals in her > music, though, and > didn't suppose there was any particular forum where > I'd find kindred spirits, though if there is/was > one, I suppose this'd be it. I'm still on her > mailing list, but I haven't yet picked up the > Loveless record. Any reports on that? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:12:18 -0600 From: steve Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The Lesbian Industry? On Feb 13, 2004, at 1:13 PM, JRT456@aol.com wrote: > Hey...! As a person involved in the lesbian industry, I'm careful to > have no > comment on the gay marriage issue. The Lesbian Industry? It sounds like you're making lesbians. This jargon is unclear. - - Steve __________ The official U.S. government message on how citizens should decide about going to war is, "Don't worry your pretty little heads about it." - - Michael Kinsley ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:17:42 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [loud-fans] advantage in mites At 11:33 AM 2/13/2004 -0800, Rex.Broome wrote: >Miles. >>>Melissa and I have officially decided to count you as a true West Virginian, >>>despite your proximity to Yankeedom and outsiderish pronunciation of the >>>word "Appalachian." > >(tight-lipped smile of triumph as Rex puts away dossier including personal >facts such as "grade school curriculum included autoharp, hammer dulcimer >and riflery" until such time as it might be needed...) If we do need to check your West Virginian credentials at any point, you'll also need to bring your ATV score and your taxidermy certificate. And be prepared to remove your partials. >>>Also, though I do have a dog in this fight, Wire didn't look very buried on >>>their 2002 tour -- most of our observers on the idealcopy list reported that >>>those gigs were evenly split between under-30s and geezers, much to us >>>geezers' amazement. > >Not to in any way diminish the coolness of this, but I think Glenn's point >still holds... while some among every generation will always discover the >"good stuff".... and Wire still wields hells of influence, they also >have the virtue (to most of us) of having been far more than "punk", which >is what I think puts them outside the realm of younger folks' sketchy/rigid >view of early punk.... Basically it seems like an interest in punk qua >punk is not going to direct kids to Wire (or X, or Television, etc.) >anymore; an interest in challenging music that's counter, instead of rigidly >adherent to, boundaries, will. I almost said something in that previous message like "But the young'uns [at the Wire shows] weren't, for the most part, in punk regalia, so maybe they don't identify themselves -- or the artist -- as punk." But you said it well: >Err, so this thread isn't "what is punk", thank god, but rather the >only-slightly-less-vexing evergreen "what do people who think they're punk >think punk is, why, and how did it get that way". Of course, Jen's answer to this pretty much nails it, too. :-) later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:17:26 -0800 (PST) From: Phil Fleming Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Karaoke goes to the movies!!!! - --- zoom@muppetlabs.com wrote: > > Maybe I'm just tired... but does this sound like a > > good idea or what?!! > > > > > http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040212/film_nm/life_movieoke_dc_3 > > Hm...like real karaoke, I'm bound to love it, but, > like real karaoke, I > might grow frustrated at the unavailability of some > of my all-time > favorite movie moments (prizes for anyone who can > identify them all): > > "Heyyyyy, WATCH THE LEATHER, MAN!!!" > > "I'm not nuts." > > "I drink it EVERY DAY, and when I DO, it makes me go > OWWWWWWWWWWWWEAAYWWWWWWW!!!" > > "Yeah but I wanna know man is, what the fuck is up > with James Brown? I > mean, I'm looking at a gossip rag and I'm goin' MAN, > I can't BELIEVE this > SHIT!!! I mean, it says James Brown, wants Joe Tex, > to have a sex change, > so he can marry the motherfucker. I mean, James > Brown, is so enamorate of > Joe Tex's voice, that singing voice--that he wants > to get WITH THE > MOTHERFUCKER! But, as a BITCH, man, AS A BITCH! So > I'm lookin' at this > and I'm goin' MAN, I can't BELIEVE this SHIT!!! > JAMES BROWN IS A CRAZY > MOTHER FUCKER!!!" > > "Come back over here, I don't like this escaping..." > > "Oh no, no. We just tease somebody unmercifully > until they develop an > eating disorder." > > "I'm Cherokee Jack." > > "Yah he haz been in dere..." > > "And that's how I found out there was no Santa > Claus." > > And just in case you were wondering, yes, I *am* > aware that at long last, > we have a feature film about a man in love with a > RealDoll: > > http://salon.com/ent/indie/2004/02/13/love_object/index.html > > http://imdb.com/title/tt0328077/ > > Gimme couple months and I'll be able to do most of > that one, too, > > Andy Nah... I'd just be jonesing to re-enact almost every line and scene from THE BREAKFAST CLUB. "STUPID..WORTHLESS..NO GOOD GODDAMN FREELOADIN' SON OF A BITCH... RETARDED BIG MOUTH KNOW IT ALL ASSHOLE JERK" "You forget ugly, lazy, and disrespectful..." I'll stop there. :) Speaking as a child of the '80s, Phil F. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:26:18 -0800 (PST) From: Phil Fleming Subject: Re: [loud-fans] punk orthodoxy; emo; bright eyes; love-hole - --- Stewart Mason wrote: > New Courtney: the only song I heard from CELEBRITY > SKIN was...what was it > called? It was on one of the early Jeff tape swaps. > Is there a song on > there called "Awful"? That song totally kicked ass, > and reminded me a bit > of Redd Kross. How does the new one compare to > that? > > S Nothing on AMERICA'S SWEETHEART even touches "Awful". The closest pop songs on AS is "Hold On To Me" and the final track "Never Gonna Be The Same"... and that one's a ballad. Phil F. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:35:57 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: [loud-fans] Sheena is an emo rocker dmw: >>what's weird to me is that so many of these "punk" bands are >>writing songs about girls and cars and beating up queers and >>stuff -- they have some of the musical and visual qualities of the >>genre, but attitude seems completely divergent from what i think >>of as "punk" >>(someone is going to bring up the dictators i'm sure...) I was actually thinking Fear, but we have been talking L.A. PUNK!!!, so... >>i know plenty of people who will swear that nothing after the >>first fugazi ep (1987) is really "emo" ... And this is where I go all wiggledee-whut-thuh-hell. Seems like "emo kids" are, like, 18 or so, and, um, *I* had Fugazi records when I was, like seventeen, and I'm just shy of being twice that age right now. I never heard tell of emo until maybe five years ago. In fact, applying Miles' "no one over 25 can understand emo" to that date, and we might conclude that emo was either first identified by precocious straight-edge eight year olds, or existed without being recognized for about nine years, until those kids were in high school chemistry and had the lab equipment to isolate and identify it by comparing Fugazi and Sunny Day Real Estate isotopes. Yes, I have to let this go... I know that... Stewart: >>New Courtney: the only song I heard from CELEBRITY SKIN was...what was >>it called? It was on one of the early Jeff tape swaps. Is there a song on >>there called "Awful"? That song totally kicked ass, and reminded me a bit >>of Redd Kross. God, how I loved that song. It sounded like what Lush should have sounded like when they tried to be a more normal pop band but failed. I remember the album vaguely at best, the other single "Malibu" and... what else? I liked it but did find it a bit too shiny, and my friends hated it so badly that I kinda stopped listening to it, assuming they must be right since they were bigger Hole fans than me in general... coulda maybe been a guilty pleasure if I'd given it a shot. And yeah, Blink-182... the scat jokes and porn-star covers are tiresome, and I'll not likely ever buy an album of theirs, but really, when I hear their songs, they really don't grate that badly, and I just can't get to hatin'. I mean, they're not that much further off the "punk" mark than the Buzzcocks were, and hey, lookee here, the first song on my copy of "Singles Going Steady" seems to be entitled "Orgasm Addict", and what's this, a song called "Oh Shit!"... that's a real warning against getting too high and mighty. Not that Blink compares in any other way, it's just another area where I don't get the rage. Frankly, Rancid bothers me more, because whatever their "cred", they typically sound just *too* much like the Clash and not *enough* like anyone else for me to take them seriously as artists. Rex "as long as we're confessing" Broome ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:52:32 -0800 (PST) From: zoom@muppetlabs.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] punk orthodoxy; emo; bright eyes; love-hole > Nothing on AMERICA'S SWEETHEART even touches "Awful". > The closest pop songs on AS is "Hold On To Me" and the > final track "Never Gonna Be The Same"... and that > one's a ballad. A few comments, some apropos of previous threads, some not: The other great song on CELEBRITY SKIN is "Boys On The Radio." Anybody else noticed how the Pazz & Jop site's gone wonky so you can't look at individual ballots anymore, or anything past six pages of album listings, four pages of singles listings? And nobody remembers "Heteroy"? Andy COURTNEY LOVE America's Sweetheart (Virgin) *1/2 Let's face it: Courtney Love's personal life has always been a helluva lot more interesting than her music. Correspondingly, her first solo outing is ripe with four-letter words and sexual innuendo, but when Love croons about "her coochie" over a watered-down radio rock riff, it's still about as threatening as Finding Nemo. America's Sweetheart's blazing opener, "Mono," wouldn't sound out of place on Hole's Celebrity Skin, but Love's tired brand of mid-tempo power-pop quickly becomes monotonous, with sappy Skid Row-esque ballads like "Almost Golden" the only thing disrupting the three-chord fare. Love's cigarette-stained voice is still captivating, but manufactured music and revelatory lyrics like "everybody dies" ultimately overshadow what little substance exists here. In fact, America's Sweetheart's only moment of real honesty is when Love sings, "I'm overrated, desecrated. Somehow illuminated." True, but as her deceased husband, Kurt Cobain, wrote in his infamous suicide note (quoting Neil Young), "It's better to burn out than to fade away"--and Love's tabloid-snatching antics won't keep her ablaze forever. JONAH BAYER - --from http://www.thestranger.com/2004-02-05/cd_revue.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 17:31:56 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: [loud-fans] America's Lesbian Sweetheart On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, steve wrote: > The Lesbian Industry? It sounds like you're making lesbians. This > jargon is unclear. Is someone making lesbians? Are they available in stores now? ;) On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 zoom@muppetlabs.com wrote: > The other great song on CELEBRITY SKIN is "Boys On The Radio." Based on the heartbreaking "Sugar Coma" that they did on UNPLUGGED. > COURTNEY LOVE > America's Sweetheart > (Virgin) > *1/2 > > Let's face it: Courtney Love's personal life has always been a helluva lot > more interesting than her music. Not to me. Since that UNPLUGGED, I've thought she had real writing, arranging, and singing talent. Sure, her life is a trainwreck, but I think it's more than glib to assume that reduces said talent. Joe Mallon jmmallon@joescafe.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 00:14:45 EST From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] The Lesbian Industry? In a message dated 2/13/04 6:34:43 PM, steveschiavo@mac.com writes: > The Lesbian Industry? It sounds like you're making lesbians. This > jargon is unclear. > Well, there's a good chance that some old girlfriends will confirm that I've made lesbians of them. But, no, I'm just talking about an industry that has an investment in lesbianism. Went to the "Greendale" screening at Lincoln Center tonight. Kind of impressive for a collection of grainy music videos, despite a few pretentious moments. The devil's loose in America, folks, but don't worry. Neil Young *will* stomp his ass. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 00:53:33 EST From: LeftyZ@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] punk orthodoxy; emo; bright eyes; love-hole Been 20 years or more since I saw these guys, but here are some more late 70s/early 80s California punk bands I loved, in addition to X and The Urinals (since it's been so long, I'm sure I'm leaving out a dozen or so): Middle Class, Germs, Circle Jerks, Mentors, Dead Kennedys, Fear, Speed Queens, Vox Pop, 45 Grave, Kommunity FK, Dickies........ ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V4 #46 ******************************