From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V4 #17 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Wednesday, January 21 2004 Volume 04 : Number 017 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Outfogeyed by Genre-Conscious Extroverts [Steve Holtebeck] Fwd: Re: [loud-fans] Outfogeyed by Genre-Conscious Extroverts [Roger Wins] [loud-fans] Cheated? ["Joseph M. Mallon" ] Re: [loud-fans] man, the list is quiet ["David Seldin" ] Re: [loud-fans] Outfogeyed by Genre-Conscious Extroverts [Jenny Grover ] Re: [loud-fans] best music of 2003 ["Michael Wells" ] Re: [loud-fans] Outfogeyed by Genre-Conscious Extroverts ["Fortissimo" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Outfogeyed by Genre-Conscious Extroverts Aaron Mandel wrote: > One that I wish I'd downloaded instead of buying, though, is the Call & > Response record... "Rollerskate" is a great song, albeit a fluffy one, but > the rest of the record just doesn't justify having the plastic taking up > space... Consider that a recommendation for "Rollerskate", anyway. I picked up the Call & Response CD at one of their shows a long time ago and liked it quite a bit for awhile, but it is like 10 variations of the same fluffy song. The version on Emusic is the Emperor Norton reissue with two bonus tracks, so now it's like 12 variations of the same fluffy song. I also like "Blowing Bubbles", "Nightflight", and one other early ones, but the whole album is like one big marshmallow sandwich For anyone in the SF Bay Area, or anyone who plans to be visiting at the end of February, the lineup for the 2004 SF Noise Pop festival is now up http://www.noisepop.com/2004/schedule.html, and it looks like they've got a pretty decent lineup, with Call & Response and some other bands.. Rex: >>The Thrills - So Much For the City > I've heard several songs from this and they perked up my ears enough to > listen for the back-announce, but... why do I instinctively not trust > it? Is it the venues hyping it, or just the Brits-Do-SoCal thing? They're Irish, and the album both is both SoCal and NoCal..the first two songs placecheck Big Sur and Santa Cruz, but there's also one about "Holluhwood kids" (in a fake American accent borrowed from Mick Jagger), and one about Las Vegas, so they cover a good bit of the western US. Anyway, I asked about the Thrills here a while back, and no one said a damn thing about it, but I grabbed a used copy anyway after seeing it on multiple Best-of 2003 lists. It's alright, but grows tiresome over the second half. - -Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:05:33 -0700 From: Roger Winston Subject: Fwd: Re: [loud-fans] Outfogeyed by Genre-Conscious Extroverts I believe Richard meant this for the List, even though some of it was covered by doug c. >From: RichardBlatherwick >To: Roger Winston >Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Outfogeyed by Genre-Conscious Extroverts >Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 23:48:19 -0000 >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 > > > Rex.Broome on 1/20/2004 11:07:36 AM wrote: > > > > > >>The Church - Forget Yourself > > > > > > There was a new Church album last year? > > > > Technically no - FORGET YOURSELF is due out today. Someone must've gotten >an advance copy. Is it legal to vote for it in the 2003 poll? I'm >wondering, because the new Firewater and Poster Children discs weren't >officially released till 2004, yet were easy to acquire in 2003 anyway. > > > > > And somebody liked it? Jeez, ya learn something new every day... > > > > The last new non-covers non-remix Church album (AFTER EVERYTHING NOW >THIS), while not exactly a return to form, was somewhat more listenable than >most of what they have put out in the last decade. Was that a ringing >endorsement? > > > > Latre. --Rog (who actually thought 2003 was a good year for new music) > >Forget Yourself came out in Australia last year, but there were problems >with lost masters that meant that the UK and US releases were delayed for a >few months. >As an album it is rather darker in tone than After Everything Now This and >the guitars are rather more to the fore than recently. My personal jury is >still pretty much out on this one, although mine was the (or one of the) >vote(s) for it in the poll. >For anyone on the list who fancies getting a copy there is a limited edition >bonus CD for the first 7500 buyers in the US to make up for the fact that >the thing was delayed. > >Richard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:09:09 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: [loud-fans] Cheated? http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Music/01/20/johnny.rotten.ap/index.html Joe Mallon jmmallon@joescafe.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:09:17 -0500 From: "David Seldin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] man, the list is quiet Amen. Resisting fogeydom and other things too, David - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Mandel" To: "Fortissimo" Cc: "where they sleep better knowing stuff" Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [loud-fans] man, the list is quiet > On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Fortissimo wrote: > > > You're right on all three counts > > What, that there's bad rap which does the things Paul complains about, or > that that's a valid indictment of rap as a whole? > > Criticizing "rap" because of what's on the charts is like criticizing > "rock" because of... what's on the charts. You wouldn't give any creedence > to someone who said "I can't stand what passes for rock these days -- it's > all from Sweden or New York or something and I hate the distorted vocals. > Singing over an electric guitar's been done before anyway; I haven't liked > rock since Pat Boone's first record," would you? The latter half of the > comment undermines what plausibility the first half might have had. > > I know we've had this thread before, so I probably shouldn't even bother, > but I get really sick of people pulling out this "Emperor's New Clothes" > line on genres they don't understand, as if they were saying something new > or interesting. > > Sorry, that's more directed at Paul than at Jeff. > > a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:06:17 -0800 (PST) From: "Tim Walters" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Outfogeyed by Genre-Conscious Extroverts As usual, I didn't hear enough new music in 2003 to have a meaningful top N list, but in the experimental electronic domain I quite liked John Bischoff's APERTURE and Jonathan Segel's NON-LINEAR ACCELERATOR (yes, that Jonathan Segel). Mainly, though, I remember three disappointments: Gillian Welch: SOUL JOURNEY. The songs aren't that great, and the uncredited drumming is seriously awful. Is it her? Swimming Pool Q's: THE ROYAL ACADEMY OF REALITY. This one will get more listens, but I'm not optimistic. My first impression is that it's goofy when it's not bland and bland when it's not goofy. Stew: SOMETHING DEEPER THAN THESE CHANGES. I have a feeling this will grow on me, but I've come to expect love-at-first-listen from Stew, so I was surprised by my lukewarm reaction. Did anyone else come home breathless from the record store only to have their hopes cruelly dashed? Tell us your woes. - -- THE DOUBTFUL PALACE Free exquisite music http://www.doubtfulpalace.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:42:14 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: [loud-fans] Listing Roger: >>The last new non-covers non-remix Church album (AFTER EVERYTHING >>NOW THIS), while not exactly a return to form, was somewhat more >>listenable than most of what they have put out in the last decade. Was that >>a ringing endorsement? Hmmm... I found it mushy and unmemorable, whereas I came just this close to loving "Hologram of Baal" (in spite of its christawful title). At the very least it had three or four latter-day classics; can't remember a single song off of "AENT" and really can't fathom how it rated and ambieant remix album. >>Rog (who actually thought 2003 was a good year for new music) I'm actually happy with a lot of my 2003 pickups based on year-end list recommendations, which hasn't been the case for a few years now. So... maybe it *was* okay. We'll see if I'm still listening to this stuff in five years... Ex-Fogey Miles: >>THE MARSHALL SUITE, THE UNUTTERABLE, and TRNFLFCotCthingy >>all "did it" for me, with ARE YOU MISSING WINNER? being the only >>disappointment of the bunch. I'll concur, with the caveat the AYAMW was a thunderous disappointment indeed. Shame... I loved the title! >>Television, if we're talking about the Rhino Handmade live one, gets >>disqualified because of my "no live albums unless the songs are 100% >>unreleased" rule. Plus... it has been... issued before. If you knew where to look. But it sure does sound a hell of a lot better this time around. Actually, I don't think I ever posted my list here. Pretty damned standard-issue, though, so the names have been changed to protect the innocent/retain some interest: 1) Lucinda Williams, Tears Without Fears 2) Wire, Spent 3) Long Winters, When I Pretend to Flail 4) New Pornographers, Electric Virgins 5) Carla Bozulich, The Red Headed Strangler 6) Califone, Quicksand/Cradlecap 7) The Go-Betweens, The Bright Yellow Oranges 8) Starlight Mints, Bent on Squares 9) Throwing Muses, Throwing Mooses 10) Shins, Chutes and Ladders 11) Robyn Hitchcock, Luxuria 12) Pernice Brothers, Yours Mine & Arse 13) Stew, Somewhat Deeper than These Changes 14) Neil Young & Crazy Horse, Greenville 15) Dandy Warhols, Welcome to Wherever the Monkey House Is Last time I posted it I prefaced it with my fogey list (reissues and comps that ace most of the above handily), so, even though I handed over my card, here's that. 1) Television, Markie Moon (& the Funkee Bunch) 2) Neil Young, Up the Beach 3) The Clean, Anthropology 4) Gene Clark, White Light/Black Cover 5) Let's Active, Big Plans for Nigel 6) Television, Love an Adventure 7) Judee Sill, Judy Stills 8) Guadalcanal Diary, Waking in the Shadow of the Big Moon / Gymboree 9) Judee Sill, Health Food 10) Laika, Lost and Spaced 1993-2002 Shaking Off My Fogey Feathers Subcategory (2002 Records Which Reached My Desk in 2003 and Would Have Made Last Years's List in All Likelihood): 1) Neko Case, Black Listed and/or Blacklisted, I can't tell which 2) Stew, The Nekkid Dutch Painter 3) Iron & Wine, Creek Drank the Cradlesnakes 4) The Negro Problem, Welcome Black Klotter 5) Have You Heard About Our Trail of Dead? (At least I liked it when I first heard it, although I haven't revisited it much since then). Best Super Wicked Awesome Song from a Disappointing Album: Maps, Yeah Yeah Yeahs Don't Kill Me For Not Yet Possessing: The Ted Leo full-length Living Up to Her Blowjob Queen Aspirations by Releasing a Record that Sucked Every Bit as Bad as They Said: Liz Phair, Liz Phair Can't Tell How Much I'm Prejudiced Because They're Gone: Strummer, Cash, Zevon Best Album by One of My Neighbors: I Saw You Coming Back to Me, Bedroom Walls Less Irritating than Belle and Sebastian But I'm Still on the Fence and the Facile Slap at Los Angeles Isn't Working in Their Favor: The Decemberists, Her Majesty the Decemberists Best Weird Argentinian Record Bought by Me: Juana Molina, Segundo Best Kingston Trio/New Christy Minstrels/Ian & Sylvia Parody, and Yes That Was a Selling Point for Me: A Mighty Wind, sountrack - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 21:42:20 -0500 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Outfogeyed by Genre-Conscious Extroverts Tim Walters wrote: >Did anyone else come home breathless from the record store only to have >their hopes cruelly dashed? Tell us your woes. > > > I wasn't thrilled with the latest Rapture album, and I really liked "Out of the Races...." a lot. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 22:06:45 -0500 From: Betsy Lescosky Way Subject: [loud-fans] 2003 poll My submission to Aaron's poll (revised version). Nothing too unusual here. My music consumption has been reduced a bit in recent years, I'm afraid. 5 points: Beulah -- Yoko 4 points: The Shins -- Chutes Too Narrow Belle & Sebastian -- Dear Catastrophe Waitress 3 points: The Pernice Brothers -- Yours, Mine and Ours The New Pornographers -- Electric Version The Strokes -- Room on Fire 2 points: The Minus Five -- Down with Wilco Britta Phillips and Dean Wareham -- L'Avventura Sloan -- Action Pact 1 point: Stephen Malkmus & the Jicks -- Pig Lib That's all. - --betsy betsy lescosky way pantone_367@mac.com http://homepage.mac.com/pantone_367 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 21:12:13 -0600 From: "Michael Wells" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] best music of 2003 Jeff continues his assault on the classics: > Also, I'm pretty sure Bruckner composed his 9th symphony more than 100 years ago... > If we nominate a particular recording of Bruckner's 9th symphony, clearly we're not saying "Bruckner's 9th waxes any piece of music written in 2003" (even if we do think that); we're referring to the quality of the *performance*. Something similar might be said about jazz, depending on the proportion of newly composed tracks to interpretations of existing material. Well, some clarification is probably in order, and as I was the offending party I'll answer the charges ;) This was a (all-new) 2-disc release containing a) a full disc documenting Harnoncourt's workshop on the piece, replete with (new and deeply insightful) extensive commentary by Nikolous, and b) an (startling all-new) performance of the piece including an (all-new) interpretation of the Symphony's (newly completed) final movement, which would certainly qualify under your heading of "newly composed tracks." So I'd put the ratio at 60:40 of new:previously-written material, though the performance alone is revelatory enough to have made my list. Damn near took #1 outright, but the Chris Smither album that took the honor was mighty fine in it's own regard (but wait - there were four covers on that disc! does that count? boy, am I confused...). Brian observes: > BEST ALBUM THAT REMINDS ME I'M NOT SURE WHERE FOLK ENDS AND COUNTRY BEGINS > Dan Bern - Fleeting Days If you're from Boston and don't have it yet, be sure to pick up Mark Erelli's "Hillbilly Pilgrim" or, better yet, buy it from him at one of the many gigs he's got 'round those parts this month. As he said at a gig 'round these parts not long ago, "it's awfully country for a kid from Boston...actually, it's probably awfully country for Nashville as well." More at http://www.markerelli.com/music.html Rex returns to quote Rog: >>Rog (who actually thought 2003 was a good year for new music) > I'm actually happy with a lot of my 2003 pickups based on year-end list recommendations, which hasn't been the case for a few years now. So... maybe it *was* okay. We'll see if I'm still listening to this stuff in five years... IMO it was one of the best in a quite a while, though not necessarily for music that's more central to this list. We're in an incredible upsurge in quality and quantity of roots/folk/Americana music right now...I would hazard a guess that at least 25% of the CD's I purchased last year would fall under those headings; most of them were VG-excellent, plus several I just got that came out last year (Tim O'Brien, Greg Trooper, Kris Delmhorst) rate at or near the top. Michael "good thing you didn't ask about those Beethoven 5 & 7 remasters too" Wells ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 00:25:27 -0500 From: glenn mcdonald Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Outfogeyed by Genre-Conscious Extroverts > Swimming Pool Q's: THE ROYAL ACADEMY OF REALITY. Yeah, I was pretty disappointed in this, too. I think I've now accepted that the SPQs only made half of one great record. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 00:17:04 -0600 From: "Fortissimo" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Outfogeyed by Genre-Conscious Extroverts On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:07:36 -0800, "Rex.Broome" said: > The thing that weirded me out about the "done-been-voted-for" list more > than the anachronisms (which I would've thought were prolly mostly > reissues or late 2002 pickups if it hadn't been clarified) was the > profusion of EP's. The only time I ever even considered including EP's > on a year-end list was for Wire's Read & Burns which kind of constituted > one album together in my mind (albeit an album quite similar to the one I > voted for as "new" this year, which I admit as my own Contribution to the > Chronological Confusion). I guess you could say that, if the EP beats > the related album in the voter's mind, it's a better representative > choice for that artist that year... but I'm gonna guess that the EP's are > mostly on lists together with the LP's in most cases. For what it's worth, my own personal rules exclude EPs, compilations, and live albums (unless primarily new material). It's easier to make an excellent EP than an excellent full-length - many middling full-lengths contain excellent EPs. So including EPs seems to be a form of cheating, in a way. Similar logic applies to compilations (which usually aren't new material anyway): of course you'll make a better record if you cherrypick the best stuff from a bunch of them. Same thing with live recordings of previously existing material. I might budge on the last point if the songs are radically rearranged (I would have included the barely-live "It's Beginning to and Back Again" in that year, probably, for instance: so much post-live stuff that it was essentially a new album re-workign some previously released songs). Re Chicaga Mike's Bruckner defense: I did not know that. I suppose that's sorta like when Zappa ruined two records by adding '80s bass and drums to 'em (thank god he came to his senses and removed them before he died) only if someone else found Zappa's notes saying "ruin early recordings with contextually inappropriate bass and drums." Except it probably doesn't suck. (Hey, I'm not a total idjit - I've got three Bruckner symphonies on CD. So there.) > >>The Fall - The Real New Fall LP Formerly 'Country on the Click' > > And did this ever actually come out, I wonder? Yes, if you live in England (or buy imports). And that is, apparently, its actual title. I recommend Action Records - linked from the Fall website at - note the 10% discount! BTW: initially I liked "Missing Winner" a lot. Listening to it again, I don't know why - there are maybe two, three good songs (one of them the cover of "Gotta See Jane"), and the "cover" of "African Man" is good in that weird, annoying way the Fall does sometimes, which most people call more simply "bad." Was there a better CD title in 2003 than 2002's "They Threw Us All in a Trench and Stuck a Monument on Top" (Liars)? - ------------------------------- ...Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ :: Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb :: --Batman ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 00:32:15 -0600 From: "Fortissimo" Subject: [loud-fans] Consonantal drift On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 13:13:56 -0600, "Miles Goosens" said: > Didn't buy the Consonant album because I didn't like the first one that > well (in fact, it recently was part of a gratifying 76-disc purge), but I > have been very surprised to see so little said here about the new one, > especially given the attention lavished on the first by Loud-Listers. I > mean, even if it really bites in most Loud-Fans' opinions, I'd still > expect a flood of "boy, I really was looking forward to that new > Consonant record, but golly ned, it sure does blow" exclamations, but > instead, silence. It doesn't blow - in fact, I listened to it last night, and at least the first half is pretty fine - but it just doesn't work as well for me as the first one did. Can't really say why - the songs (second half particularly) just don't seem as distinctive. Still, I'm looking forward to the new Mission of Burma release scheduled for May. - ------------------------------- ...Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ :: Miracles are like meatballs, because nobody can exactly agree :: what they are made of, where they come from, or how often :: they should appear. :: --Lemony Snicket ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 00:42:04 -0600 From: "Fortissimo" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Outfogeyed by Genre-Conscious Extroverts On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 14:33:07 -0800, "dc" said: > on 1/20/04 10:18 AM, Roger Winston at rwinston@tde.com wrote: > > >>>> The Church - Forget Yourself > > Technically no - FORGET YOURSELF is due out today. Someone must've gotten an > > advance copy. > > actually, the new album was released in Australia this past fall. In fact, the members of the Church have renounced citizenship in all countries of the world and have declared their own persons "The NationAura::Manifest Golden" or something like that. In their nation, all time is one, and so it's all years at once. So technically, everything they've ever done is eligible for every year ever. Which makes "Starfish" a lock for Best New Release of 1374. - ------------------------------- ...Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ :: Solipsism is its own reward :: :: --Crow T. Robot ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 00:44:45 -0600 From: "Fortissimo" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Outfogeyed by Genre-Conscious Extroverts On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:17:06 -0800 (PST), zoom@muppetlabs.com said: > > When you swap your timeshare in Oldenberg or Weser for one there. > > Google's translation service tells me that it's "ideal for your recovery > > seed vacation." > > Claes Oldenburg made a huge soft condo? Wasn't that on the Rolling Stones' _Tattoo You_ tour? - --------------------------- J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 02:21:03 -0500 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Outfogeyed by Genre-Conscious Extroverts At 12:17 AM 1/21/2004 -0600, Fortissimo wrote: >Was there a better CD title in 2003 than 2002's "They Threw Us All in a >Trench and Stuck a Monument on Top" (Liars)? I'm fond of Jeffrey Lewis' IT'S THE ONES WHO'VE CRACKED THAT THE LIGHT SHINES THROUGH. S ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V4 #17 ******************************