From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V3 #351 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, December 4 2003 Volume 03 : Number 351 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Tris McCall (with Scott content) [Holly Kruse ] Re: [loud-fans] Tris McCall (with Scott content) [Holly Kruse Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tris McCall (with Scott content) >> "...the Loud Family, under the aegis of the venerable tunesmith Scott >> Miller > > So, Gil - any dirt to dish on Scott Miller's aegis? Hey, I wrote extensively about (or at least with) Scott in my book, but I never mentioned his aegis. In fact, I never knew that it existed until now. What am I missing? I feel so left out. Holly (Hanging in there at 1,134,492 on Amazon.com. The temptation to check this ranking is kind of appalling. Still, if only I'd known about the aegis!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:07:04 EST From: DOUDIE@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tris McCall (with Scott content) In a message dated 12/3/03 1:12:24 AM, JRT456@aol.com writes: > It should probably be noted that Tris' self-produced SHOOTOUT AT THE SUGAR > FACTORY remains the most Milleresque album of the year. "The Man From > Nantucket" > just barely comes short of noting that nobody's twisting his arm. Also, Tris > isn't so much of a conspiracy theorist that he doesn't feel bad when he > finds > himself associating with anti-Semites, which is kind of reassuring nowadays. > > Wait that was pretty funny to me considering Tris has been the most stridently pro-Jewish (and even pro-Israel) person I've known over the course of my lengthy Jewish life. More than my mom, dad, cousins, even my Uncle Seymour. SHOOTOUT was in fact mostly produced by J. Braun of the Negatones/Melody Lanes studio.... Oh and I'd have to say that the New Pornographer's ELECTRIC VERSION is even more Milleresque... the title track just barely comes short of speaking Erica's Word. Now if someone could just verify that Carl Newman is a Scott Miller fan, and get him to go around acknowleding him as an influence we could push Matador and............voila! Steve Matrick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 09:41:01 -0800 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tris McCall (with Scott content) DOUDIE@aol.com wrote: > Oh and I'd have to say that the New Pornographer's ELECTRIC VERSION is even > more Milleresque... the title track just barely comes short of speaking > Erica's > Word. Now if someone could just verify that Carl Newman is a Scott Miller > fan, and get him to go around acknowleding him as an influence we could push > Matador and............voila! Viola, what?? I don't know if Carl Newman is a Scott Miller fan, but wouldn't be surprised to find out that he has at least one Game Theory album in his collection, and have thought for the longest time that the New Pornographers should cover a GT song. I think Ted Leo's HEARTS OF OAK is even more Milleresque than ELECTRIC VERSION. Last month in the Village Voice, Robert Christgau named HEARTS OF OAK his "dud of the month", and takes Ted Leo to task for singing in too high a register and using too many big words, which helps to explain why Christgau never liked Scott Miller that much. http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0346/christgau.php And if Bob hated the album so much, why did he give it a "B"? What an easy grader! - -Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:14:51 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [loud-fans] every day is silent In an off-list conversation, it's become apparent that not everyone got the posts of Sunday, November 30th. This includes the eScribe archive, which doesn't show a single post from Sunday. That's a pity, since those posts include Jeffrey's one-liner reply to Stewart's pyrextechnics display, and perhaps more importantly, Steve Holtebeck's account of Our Scott's Sacramento show. smoe.org archives to the rescue, however: http://www.smoe.org/lists/loud-fans/v03.n348 later, Miles last played: Starlight Mints, BUILT ON SQUARES ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:47:02 -0800 (PST) From: zoom@muppetlabs.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Love, child > * FOREVER CHANGES may still not be something with which I'm enthralled. > > But I'm not hating it or anything, and I definitely liked it better than > the last time I listened to it, which may well have been 20 years ago > (urk!). At least two more listens coming up. Oddly enough, from this week's Seattle Weekly: Forever Changes (Continuum, $9.95) I love a critic who doesn't profess to be infallible, so Andrew Hultkrans immediately won me over by admitting he was previously "absolutely, laughably wrong" about Love's 1967 Forever Changes album. His reassessment of its musical genius and curious lyrical acumen also required of me more than one casual listen to come around to his opinion. (It's part of the 331/3 series of pocket-sized album appreciations by diverse critics that will include in February Seattle Weekly's Michaelangelo Matos, writing on Prince's Sign 'O' the Times.) Hultkrans goes deep into the L.A. milieu of the radical late '60s, just as Love's chief songwriter, Arthur Lee, went deep into his environment to compose these tracks. The album is a paranoid, psychedelic, heavily philosophical reaction to that period, and Hultkrans' examination of it respects that paranoia. Often citing Lee's lyrics and excerpting interviews and statements made by Lee's contemporaries, Hultkrans takes the record very, very seriously; accordingly, his book is a reverential, fastidious tome. LAURA CASSIDY - --consult http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0349/031203_gg3_books.php I myself shall pursue Kenneth Higney, Abner Jay, and the Reverend Charlie Jackson, Andy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 19:54:57 -0800 (PST) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tris McCall (with Scott content) Holly, if you wrote the true facts about his aegis, I doubt Amazon would even carry your book. (I got to get me one of those books...hopefully I'll help push it to 1,134,491!) While I'm here, good job to Jenny for her interview with Scott! I just happened to see that on the LF website, there is yet another interview with him by someone else. Sadly, neither touch upon his aegis... Gil - --- Holly Kruse wrote: > >> "...the Loud Family, under the aegis of the > venerable tunesmith Scott > >> Miller > > > > So, Gil - any dirt to dish on Scott Miller's > aegis? > > Hey, I wrote extensively about (or at least with) > Scott > in my book, but I never mentioned his aegis. In > fact, I > never knew that it existed until now. What am I > missing? > I feel so left out. > > > Holly > > (Hanging in there at 1,134,492 on Amazon.com. The > temptation to check this ranking is kind of > appalling. > Still, if only I'd known about the aegis!) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:03:19 -0800 (PST) From: Gil Ray Subject: [loud-fans] Fwd: SF Gate: The sounds of silence in Bernal Heights/Tavern owner ends live music after ASCAP suits Wow. The music industry strikes again. Maybe Arnold can fix it... Gil Note: forwarded message attached. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ X-Apparently-To: ggilray@yahoo.com via 216.136.131.231; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 20:00:10 -0800 Return-Path: Received: from 66.35.240.33 (EHLO griva-2.sfgate.com) (66.35.240.33) by mta181.mail.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 20:00:10 -0800 Received: from bene27.sc8.sfgate.com ([10.35.240.187] helo=localhost) by griva-2.sfgate.com with smtp (Exim 4.22) id 1ARkew-0000p3-A1 for ggilray@yahoo.com; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 20:00:10 -0800 Subject: SF Gate: The sounds of silence in Bernal Heights/Tavern owner ends live music after ASCAP suits Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-readerip: 209.86.241.206 Sender: To: "Gil" From: "Gil" Organization: SF Gate, San Francisco, CA Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mime-version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:00 -0800 X-mailer: Mail::Sendmail version 0.77 Content-Length: 4065 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This article was sent to you by someone who found it on SF Gate. The original article can be found on SFGate.com here: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/12/03/ BUGL13CH5H26.DTL - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wednesday, December 3, 2003 (SF Chronicle) The sounds of silence in Bernal Heights/Tavern owner ends live music after ASCAP suits John Shinal, Chronicle Staff Writer Skip's Tavern, which sits on Cortland Avenue in the heart of Bernal Heights, is a throwback to when San Francisco was mostly a blue-collar town. The gritty neighborhood tavern is the kind of place where Vietnam-era veterans always get a warm welcome but boisterous football fans wearing anything but 49er colors do not. In the past few years, Skip's also became home to a small but burgeoning music scene, even as live music declined in the rest of the city. Bands with names like the Lab Rats and Thunder Blue staged marathon jam sessions that attracted crowds that often spilled onto the sidewalk. But the stage at Skip's has been silent since Oct. 1, when owner Bill Courtright pulled the plug after deciding that offering live music wasn't worth the legal trouble it was attracting. Twice in less than a year, Courtright was sued for copyright infringement by the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers, which collects royalty payments for copyright holders and represents them in legal disputes. "I wasn't going to wait for a third lawsuit," said Courtright, who has owned Skip's since 1990. As record companies conduct a much-publicized effort to crack down on Internet music downloads, Courtright's bitter legal dispute shows how small- club owners, simply by providing a venue to local musicians, can run afoul of the guardians of copyrighted music. Courtright's troubles began in September 2002, when he received a letter claiming that a private investigator hired by ASCAP heard musicians playing covers of copyrighted songs at Skip's on June 22, 2002. The letter, from the San Francisco office of the law firm Heller Ehrman White & McAuliffe, threatened a lawsuit. Under copyright law, Courtright can be held liable for the copyright infringements at his club because he never purchased a license from ASCAP. Yet Courtright and Regi Harvey, a drummer and guitarist who was on stage on the night in question, vehemently deny that any such infringement took place. In fact, copies of the lawsuits and supporting documentation reveal two very different versions of what was played that night. Harvey said the three songs in question -- "Shop Around," "Ain't Nothing Like the Real Thing" and "Where Is the Love?" -- are not even in his band's repertoire. "We play original jazz and jazz rock," said Harvey. "We don't even like those songs." Courtright responded with a letter Oct. 3, 2002, asking that the law firm provide evidence of the alleged infringement. In return, he received a lawsuit. Courtright tried to settle, and his attorney, James Attridge, sent a letter Jan. 10 which stated that Courtright had agreed to pay for a one-year license in exchange for the copyright group dropping the suit, which sought unspecified damages. The society's legal representative refused and sent subpoenas to Harvey and Courtright requesting depositions. "Trying to negotiate with them has been ridiculous," Courtright said. "They're trying to make an example out of me, I guess." ASCAP lawyer Richard Reimer said attaching damage claims to its lawsuits is necessary to discourage copyright infringement by club owners. Reimer said that if he took Courtright's offer to buy a license in exchange for the group not seeking damages, "no one would ever (buy) a license. It's not like we can call the San Francisco police and tell them to go arrest him," he said. Legally, if a copyright is not enforced within a reasonable amount of time, the copyright holder loses the right to enforce it. For that reason, ASCAP, which has 4,000 licensees in California, routinely goes after small, unlicensed clubs for copyright infringements, said Robert Andris, a copyright attorney in Redwood City. "Generally, the bar or restaurant signs up," Andris said. The license for Skip's, which is based on the club's seating capacity, number of nights per week that music is performed and whether it's played live or by a disc jockey or jukebox, would cost Courtright $698 per year. Reimer said his group first sent a letter asking Courtright to buy a license in 1997. When asked to provide a copy of the letter, however, Reimer declined, citing confidentiality concerns. Courtright acknowledged that he probably received such a letter, but that it was similar to dozens of solicitation letters he gets every week. "It basically said, 'Pay us money if you want to play our music,' " he said. Because he had instructed Harvey to hire bands that play original music, he ignored the letter. If ASCAP wins the suit, Reimer said he expects to collect damage payments, which range from $750 to $150,000 per infringement, in the high five figures. "But would we settle for less than that? Probably," he said. "I don't anticipate having to try this case." As to Harvey's and Courtright's statements that no violations occurred in June of last year, Reimer said, "The ASCAP investigator will be credible and believed. We call that a swearing contest," Reimer said. Yet Attridge said that because of the testimony of the musicians on stage that night, it will be impossible to prove any infringements. "The first investigator got it wrong," Attridge said. "People saw him drinking at the bar. I think he got his bars confused." Reimer acknowledges that the investigator was drinking but said that is necessary to maintain the undercover nature of such an investigation. After Harvey and Courtright gave their depositions in May, ASCAP sent another undercover investigator, who reported more copyright violations on the night of June 3, 2003. In August, Courtright was sued again and decided he'd had enough. Although he intends to fight the lawsuits, he did not want to risk any more. "I've tried to give local bands a place to play, but I can't monitor what they play," he said. "Yet I'm the one facing the lawsuits." Courtright said that in the seven years the club has had live music, he imposed a cover charge on only one occasion. That was when Tito Jackson, of Jackson 5 fame, played at the club earlier this year. "They got me pegged as a small guy who won't fight, but they're wrong," said Courtright. "I won't pay them a damn dime unless they drop the lawsuits," he said. After a November settlement meeting yielded no agreement, the cases are moving forward. If they do go to trial, one thing is clear: While Courtright faces the prospect of a five-figure payment, the biggest losers in the case so far are the musicians. "It's killing the musicians," said Harvey, who started a Sunday night jam session at Skip's seven years ago that grew into the seven-nights-a-week offerings. "There's no place for locals to play in this town anymore," said Harvey, who booked the bands for Courtright. While the pay was minimal -- less than $50 a night per musician for a trio, for example -- and the venue small, "playing here meant something to them," said Harvey. "It's not a big joint, but it was a proving ground." On a recent Sunday afternoon at Skip's, fans were watching the 49er game. The bar's paneled walls, darkened from decades of cigarette smoke, are covered with photos of such milestones as "The Catch" made by 49er Dwight Clark and the construction of the Golden Gate Bridge. Near a window, an electronic keyboard lay on top of a shut upright piano, gathering the dust that filtered through a shaft of light. Above the empty stage, to the right of a famous movie publicity shot showing Marilyn Monroe trying to hold down her billowing skirt, a hand- lettered sign revealed the current state of the music: "No Music Thanks to ASCAP." E-mail John Shinal at jshinal@sfchronicle.com. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Copyright 2003 SF Chronicle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:21:34 -0800 From: "me" Subject: [loud-fans] plug me, baby open studio. san ramon, ca. 12/6 from 1-7pm. 25% 'get-this-stuff-out-of-my-house' 25% 'pay-for-my-move' 50% donated to either the Dean campaign or the Feral Cat Foundation - buyers' choice if ya wanna come, lemme know. it's a condo (which means there are 288 of them, half of which are upstairs, which means 143 of them look just like mine). if you're feeling extremely brave, head to 1112 Canyon Village Circle, San Ramon, CA. it's more or less in the driveway for the entire complex. maybe i'll get balloons... hm... not a bad idea... e-mail or call. 925.594.0390 my m4d b4rt3nding sk1llz will be in full effect. martinis, eggnog, and the all-powerful hip new 'Hpnotic' (i hear the celebs drink it.) brianna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 23:07:15 -0600 From: Holly Kruse Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tris McCall (with Scott content) Gil wrote: > Holly, if you wrote the true facts about his aegis, I > doubt Amazon would even carry your book. This is probably why I never touched upon the aegis when interviewing Scott. Best to leave some things alone. I also chose not to include some of the things I witnessed a certain sock monkey do while he stayed at my house in Philadelphia. > (I got to get > me one of those books... Well, no need for that! I am really lousy at self-promotion. I would love to be able to just send copies to loud-fans folks for free, but unfortunately my complimentary copies had to go to the blurbers, the dissertation committee, my sister, the dept. display case... very uninspiring. I'm quite sure that my now-ancient interviews with Scott and the rest (Jonathan and Victor from Camper, Adam Schmitt, people from Rough Trade and Alias...! As I wrote, these are ancient -- it's a historical study) are soooo under- appreciated. I will say that the book is a pretty effortless read, and it's amazing how compact and portable it is. That probably wouldn't have been the case if I'd done a thorough examination of aegises (aegi?), large and small. > hopefully I'll help push it to > 1,134,491!) For some reason, I take a little pride in being in the 1,000,000s. The cover's pretty spiffy, and Amazon doesn't even show it. Bastards. If the book sinks into the 2,000,000s though, perhaps I will have to pay someone here to "be the first person to review this book!" This is my most shameless attempt ever at self-promotion, and now I feel all dirty. However, maybe that's just from all of the aegis talk. In either case, I now feel the need to shower. Plus, I haven't yet bought the Loud Family DVD from 123 (like not having a DVD player yet is an excuse), so I am really covered in shame. Holly (author of Site and Sound: Understanding Independent Music Scenes. NY: Peter Lang Publishing, 2003. Why not sign off in an utterly shameless way?) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:26:20 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [loud-fans] The Dread Scott Content Quoting Gil Ray : > While I'm here, good job to Jenny for her interview > with Scott! I just happened to see that on the LF > website, there is yet another interview with him by > someone else. Which contains this amusing (intriguing?) statement: "But now that I think of it, we [Game Theory] never did break up. Technically, Michael Quercio, Joe Becker, and I are still Game Theory. Maybe we should do a record." Not like I'm trying to start a rumor or anything. > Sadly, neither touch upon his aegis... Nope. Nothing to say. Not a goddamn thing. Just backing away slowly from the whole concept. ..Jeff, who thinks "The Dread Scott Content" might not be a bad band name. J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ :: "In two thousand years, they'll still be looking for Elvis - :: this is nothing new," said the priest. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 00:41:20 -0500 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tris McCall (with Scott content) At 11:07 PM 12/3/2003 -0600, Holly Kruse wrote: >This is probably why I never touched upon the >aegis when interviewing Scott. Well, for one thing, the dude's married, and you're just not that kind of girl. S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:55:28 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Fwd: SF Gate: The sounds of silence in Bernal Heights/Tavern owner ends live music after ASCAP suits Quoting Gil Ray : - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Wednesday, December 3, 2003 (SF Chronicle) > The sounds of silence in Bernal Heights/Tavern owner ends live music > after > ASCAP suits > John Shinal, Chronicle Staff Writer > > > Courtright's troubles began in September 2002, when he received a > letter > claiming that a private investigator hired by ASCAP heard musicians > playing covers of copyrighted songs at Skip's on June 22, 2002. You'd think at the very least that, to make such claims credible, the BUTTHAT - sorry, ASCAP - people would carry surreptitious tape recorders to *prove* that, say, avant-rock act Tubas Stuffed with Raw Meat covered "Ooops! I Did it Again!" Why the hell should any court believe bullshit hearsay about such claims? > ASCAP, which has 4,000 licensees in California, routinely goes > after > small, unlicensed clubs for copyright infringements, said Robert > Andris, a > copyright attorney in Redwood City. "Generally, the bar or > restaurant > signs up," Andris said. "It'd be, how you say, *unfortunate* if a *accident* happened owing to youse being unable to pay, whatchacall, 'insurance premiums,' and like we got guys can make *sure* accidents don't happen - or not. You know? So how about that nother drink then." Hmm. I wonder if the Residents' version of "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction" would even be recognized as the same song... ..Jeff, who illegally covered a song in a public place recently, quietly warbling his impersonation of Willie Nelson doing that Nine Inch Nails song - the one whose chorus goes "I wanna >< you like an animal..." J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ :: "In two thousand years, they'll still be looking for Elvis - :: this is nothing new," said the priest. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 01:04:11 -0500 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Tris McCall (with Scott content) Gil Ray wrote: > While I'm here, good job to Jenny for her interview >with Scott! I just happened to see that on the LF >website, there is yet another interview with him by >someone else. Sadly, neither touch upon his aegis... > > Believe me, if I'd known about his aegis, I would have touched on it. Jen ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V3 #351 *******************************