From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V3 #319 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Saturday, November 1 2003 Volume 03 : Number 319 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] But I loves me some miserable whines! ["Rex.Broome" ] Re: [loud-fans] But I loves me some miserable whines! [Miles Goosens Subject: [loud-fans] But I loves me some miserable whines! Miles: >> I had a similar problem with them -- BSP's lead singer has a voice that >>(at least at this stage in its development) tends to grate on me. This seems to be more and more a component of my increasingly legendary fogeydom: shitcanning bands based on vocal style. I rarely used to do that. I just saw an REM set on A&E and found myself wondering if I'd even like Stipe if I heard him for the first time today. Aaron: >>The band's "Tearjerkin'" sent me >>to the store to buy Stand For Decibels, despite my prior dB's >>experiences having all been kind of blah. I like Repercussion even better, but you probably got the twofer anyhow-- isn't that the only way it's available now? Super classic records. I can understand the your blah if you mostly heard the later Holsapple-only stuff, though... I like it well enough but it really doesn't hold a candle. Always knew Rhett Crowe was female... in fact I think of Rhett as a female name because of her. Which is weird, but you only ever hear of so many Rhetts, so it doesn't trip me up too often. Hey yo... Happy Halloween! Rex np "Ghost on the Road", Guadalcanal Diary next up: "I No Longer Fear the Headless" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:15:51 -0800 From: "Vallor" Subject: [loud-fans] Re: What the hell?!??! Nobody is going to believe this. Remember how we've had discussions of > "What's the weirdest song you've heard on the P.A. in a public place?" I'm a little late on this, I know. 4 times at work while on hold I heard the Muzak version of The Posies "Suddenly Mary". The MUZAK version !!! Twice in Safeway at Christmas (I think I mentioned this at the time) I heard Buzz Of Delights Christmas followed by The dB's Home For The Holidays. Not Muzak versions, just "the Safeway channel". Looking forward to the new DVD. - - Dan Vallor ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:38:00 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] But I loves me some miserable whines! At 10:25 AM 10/31/2003 -0800, Rex.Broome wrote: >Miles: >>> I had a similar problem with them -- BSP's lead singer has a voice that >>>(at least at this stage in its development) tends to grate on me. > >This seems to be more and more a component of my increasingly legendary >fogeydom: shitcanning bands based on vocal style. I rarely used to do >that. I just saw an REM set on A&E and found myself wondering if I'd even >like Stipe if I heard him for the first time today. Interestingly, when Melissa and I were wandering around an outdoor event a couple of Saturdays ago, one of the selections issuing forth from the stereo in the record store tent (from Grimey's, for those of you keeping score) was the "Bad Day" CD-5, and Melissa, who useta love R.E.M. just as much as me, said Stipe's voice was getting on her nerves. >I can >understand the your blah if you mostly heard the later Holsapple-only stuff, >though... I like it well enough but it really doesn't hold a candle. Whoa there, homie. There are those among us who'd flip that equation. Well, I would, anyways. >Always knew Rhett Crowe was female... in fact I think of Rhett as a female >name because of her. Which is weird, but you only ever hear of so many >Rhetts, so it doesn't trip me up too often. She's the only one I've ever heard of, but maybe there was once an Invasion of the Female Rhetts in between the Debbies and the Lisas and the Heathers and the Jennifers. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:48:44 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] update from Fogeyville At 09:30 PM 10/30/2003 -0500, Jenny Grover wrote: >Miles Goosens wrote: > >>THE RAPTURE - ECHOES >> > >How does it compare to Out of the Races and Onto the Tracks? I have no idea, since I've never heard it. Sorry! >>COBRA VERDE - NIGHTLIFE >> > >Ah, yes. My fave Cobra album. And their customer service is very fine, >indeed. When I ordered Easy Listening, it seemed to take forever to >arrive. It finally did, with a full page, handwritten apology and >explanation letter from John P. Apparently he handles all the orders, >and the band was on tour at the time I ordered. And they always send >nice swag. All of that was true for my order as well. Actually, the order only took a couple of weeks, which in an era of pretty rapid fulfillment might seem like a long time, but since I wasn't waiting with bated breath for the CD, I actually forgot that I had ordered it, so the package's arrival came as a nice surprise! And for the swag 'n' personal service, plus the privilege of giving the money straight to the band instead of to a middleman, I suspect all my future CV purchases will be done through their site. Damn, Rex laying the mild diss on LIKE THIS (my very favorite dB's album) and THE SOUND OF MUSIC has put me in the perfect mood for 'em. I guess I'll have to spring for one of them there iPoddy contraptions so I can keep up with the jukebox in my head when I'm away from the CD collection. And though it goes with a Feg thread, I'll add that LIKE THIS' leadoff duo of "Love Is for Lovers" and "She Got Soul" would be my picks to define power pop. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:00:48 -0500 From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] But I loves me some miserable whines! >>I can >>understand the your blah if you mostly heard the later Holsapple-only stuff, >>though... I like it well enough but it really doesn't hold a candle. > > Whoa there, homie. There are those among us who'd flip that equation. Well, I would, anyways. Yeah, me too. I love REPERCUSSION, but on the whole I'm a Stamey admirer and a Holsapple enthusiast. - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:02:55 -0500 From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] update from Fogeyville > And though it goes with a Feg thread, I'll add that LIKE THIS' > leadoff duo of "Love Is for Lovers" and "She Got Soul" would be my > picks to define power pop. And then shortly after comes "Lonely Is as Lonely Does," which to me is one of the peaks of pop music. - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:07:12 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] update from Fogeyville At 02:02 PM 10/31/2003 -0500, Dan Sallitt wrote: > > And though it goes with a Feg thread, I'll add that LIKE THIS' > > leadoff duo of "Love Is for Lovers" and "She Got Soul" would be my > > picks to define power pop. > >And then shortly after comes "Lonely Is as Lonely Does," which to me is >one of the peaks of pop music. Absolutely no arguments from me on that -- gorgeous, poignant, perfect. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:25:19 -0800 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: Re: [loud-fans] But I loves me some miserable whines! Miles Goosens wrote: > Interestingly, when Melissa and I were wandering around an outdoor > event a couple of Saturdays ago, one of the selections issuing forth > from the stereo in the record store tent (from Grimey's, for those of > you keeping score) was the "Bad Day" CD-5, and Melissa, who useta love > R.E.M. just as much as me, said Stipe's voice was getting on her > nerves. Anyone who's inclined to pick up the R.E.M. best-of should consider picking up the limited edition 2-disc version with the extra disc of B-sides and outtakes. I was just going to get the "Bad Day" single, since I already had everything else on IN TIME except the other new song "Animal", but Best Buy had the 2-disc version for $15.99 and the import single for $11.99, and after determining that 32 songs for $16 is a better deal than $12 for 3 songs, I picked up the bonus album instead. I stopped being a total R.E.M. completist after AUTOMATIC (or the AUTOMATIC BOX), so I'd never heard most of the post-1993 extra tracks, some of which are pretty good. They didn't include any cover songs or instrumentals or anything that required licensing from other labels, so it's not definitive by any means, but it's a nice sampling of worthwhile R.E.M. songs previously buried on otherwise crappy movie soundtracks. > >I can > >understand the your blah if you mostly heard the later Holsapple-only stuff, > >though... I like it well enough but it really doesn't hold a candle. > > Whoa there, homie. There are those among us who'd flip that equation. > Well, I would, anyways. Which equation is being flipped, that the later Holsapple-only dB's albums don't hold a candle to the first two albums, or that the early albums don't hold a candle to the later ones? Do I have to stand on one side or the other? My collection is big enough for all the dB's albums! - -Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:05:08 -0800 (PST) From: "Tim Walters" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] But I loves me some miserable whines! Miles Goosens wrote: >>I can >>understand the your blah if you mostly heard the later Holsapple-only >> stuff, >>though... I like it well enough but it really doesn't hold a candle. > > Whoa there, homie. There are those among us who'd flip that equation. > Well, I would, anyways. I love LIKE THIS, and have yet to make it all the way through the STANDS/REPERCUSSION twofer. For some reason I find it irritating. It's got to be better than that, I know. Maybe it's time for another try. - -- SHALMANESER Artifically unintelligent twitching disco brain http://www.doubtfulpalace.com/artists/Shalmaneser ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:30:23 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] But I loves me some miserable whines! On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Steve Holtebeck wrote: > I was just going to get the "Bad Day" single, > since I already had everything else on IN TIME except the other new song > "Animal", but Best Buy had the 2-disc version for $15.99 and the import > single for $11.99, and after determining that 32 songs for $16 is a > better deal than $12 for 3 songs, I picked up the bonus album instead. Yeah, anyone who hasn't heard "Fretless" and "It's A Free World, Baby" but is thinking about picking up the best-of for the new songs should *definitely* get the two-disc thing, as those two outtakes (as Buck says in the liner notes) probably should have been on Out Of Time in place of some of the weaker songs. The rarities disc is otherwise not too strong, though I guess I didn't expect much. a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:35:00 -0500 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] But I loves me some miserable whines! I find it really interesting how there's totally two minds on the dB's. LIKE THIS upon initial release was one of the most disappointing purchases of my life. Though I liked SOUND OF MUSIC much better than LIKE THIS, I didn't like it enough to keep it, and to this day I still like STANDS FOR DECIBELS and REPERCUSSION a lot. It's not as simple as Stamey vs. Holsapple, because I like Stamey's solo work even less than I like the Holsapple dB's albums. That alone makes me a weirdo on this list, but I'm just being honest... Oh, and to confuse matters more, I like Stamey's early band Sneakers more than I like the dB's. _________________________________________________________________ Fretting that your Hotmail account may expire because you forgot to sign in enough? Get Hotmail Extra Storage today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:37:41 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] But I loves me some miserable whines! Tim Walters wrote: >I love LIKE THIS, and have yet to make it all the way through the >STANDS/REPERCUSSION twofer. For some reason I find it irritating. > >It's got to be better than that, I know. Maybe it's time for another try. Oh, it is, and to sort of address Steve Holtebeck's point, I'm glad to have STANDS/REPERCUSSION in my collection and think that both of those albums are four-out-o'-five star material, and I'll certainly buy the argument that the super-packed sound of those records is unique. I even think that Stamey's post-dB's work from around the same time as LIKE THIS and THE SOUND OF MUSIC is great, maybe the best stuff I've heard him do. But the Holsapple-era stuff always works better for me. I also wonder if there's an anti-twang thang workin' with the "Holsapple blah" crowd (though I know it's not true about Rex), since Holsapple goes way rootsier on stuff like "White Train." Aaron Mandel: >Yeah, anyone who hasn't heard "Fretless" and "It's A Free World, Baby" but >is thinking about picking up the best-of for the new songs should >*definitely* get the two-disc thing, as those two outtakes (as Buck says >in the liner notes) probably should have been on Out Of Time in place of >some of the weaker songs. Substitute "Automatic for the People" for "Out of Time" and you've got my take on it. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:23:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Tim Walters" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] But I loves me some miserable whines! Oddly enough, considering my ambivalence toward their catalog, Scott McKnight and I ended up doing a track ("Purple Hose") for a dBs tribute album. I hadn't heard it before; I think it's on RIDE THE WILD TOM-TOM. He also contributed to Last Train Home's version of "White Train", which was very nice. Come to think of it, I haven't heard anything since we turned in the track several months ago. I should probably find out what's going on. - -- SHALMANESER Artifically unintelligent twitching disco brain http://www.doubtfulpalace.com/artists/Shalmaneser ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:03:06 -0800 (PST) From: "G. Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] weird costume link + halloween viewing > It's been kind of a renaissance lately for indie horror, what with > "May", and "Ginger Snaps" and loads of japanese films leading the pack, > but also recommended is a recent video release called "Session 9". > While flawed in a lot of little ways, it has a couple of the more > undeniably creepy scenes I've seen lately, and a fairly intelligent > plot (not to mention an outstanding location). More proof that good > horror comes from good direction, and minimal gore (although Session 9 > gets a little bloody at the end). Wasn't SESSION 9 supposed to be the best thing since THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT? Or in that vein anyway? A good time to mention, again, the Japanese director Kurosawa Kiyoshi, whose CURE and SEANCE, both starring Yakusho Koji, make for fine, creepy viewing, though I haven't seen any of the director's other work. Koji also stars in Aoyama Shinji's EUREKA, one of my favorite films of the past five years, featuring telepathy, busjacking, serial killings, and some music by Jim O'Rourke. Liked GINGER SNAPS okay. Liked MAY a whole lot. Heard good things about DOG SOLDIERS, Andy David Blaine has finished his bizarre boy-in-a-box project in London, and was taken to a hospital to be repaired after the ordeal. As expected, every teenie-bopper within miles hastened to visit his bedside. One, however, was banned. Uri Geller, who says that he "inspired" Blaine, and that they're close friends, was banned by Blaine from visiting him. Blaine says he's had nothing to do with him recently, calling him a "hanger-on." Small wonder. As I predicted, Geller showed up at the site where Blaine was hanging in the box, on 30 of the 44 days he was starving inside. Blaine now thinks that Geller is after publicity for himself. Really? A source close to Blaine said: "Geller has been hanging around David during this project so much that it is really starting to annoy him. It's fair to say David is finding Geller a pain. He couldn't do much about it when he was in the box, but he would not want to see Uri in hospital." A security officer guarding New Yorker Blaine during the stunt said: "We've been told to treat Uri like any member of the public. He tells people he's David's mate. But Blaine's complained he is a 'hanger-on' and wants nothing to do with him." Maybe, despite having previously signed an affidavit stating that Geller is the real thing, David is now having second thoughts.? - --James Randi, from http://randi.org/jr/103103.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:28:29 -0600 From: Chris Prew Subject: Re: [loud-fans] weird costume link + halloween viewing Mr Hamlin: > > Wasn't SESSION 9 supposed to be the best thing since THE BLAIR WITCH > PROJECT? Or in that vein anyway? > In terms of how it was shot? the "you're in the movie" audience point of view? The nausea inducing handhelds? Not in the slightest. Session 9 is a fairly conventionally shot film. In terms of being pretty creepy, yes. Again, by no means a 'great' film, just darn good relative to all the other yawnfests that try to pass themselves off as horror films nowadays. Chris Who actually spent the last couple weekends helping a guy shoot a no-budget feature length/digital video blair witch/evil dead ripof....er....homage. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:46:18 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] But I loves me some miserable whines! On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Tim Walters wrote: > I love LIKE THIS, and have yet to make it all the way through the > STANDS/REPERCUSSION twofer. For some reason I find it irritating. > > It's got to be better than that, I know. Maybe it's time for another try. i love those records, but i love repercussion a lot more than stands for, and i think they really are best listened to as standalone entities. back-to-back seems like a little much, even to me. np opium jukebox _never mind the bhangra_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:33:27 -0700 From: "Roger Winston" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] weird costume link + halloween viewing G. Andrew Hamlin on 10/31/2003 6:03:06 AM wrote: > A good time to mention, again, the Japanese director Kurosawa Kiyoshi, > whose CURE and SEANCE, both starring Yakusho Koji, make for fine, creepy > viewing, though I haven't seen any of the director's other work. I saw Kurosawa's latest movie, BRIGHT FUTURE (aka AKARUI MIRAI), at the Denver International Film Festival a few weeks. It was creepy, but only in the "Why are the Japanese trying to make French movies?" kind of way. I didn't get into it much, but I think you might enjoy it, Andy. Especially if you're into movies shot on grainy digital video where disaffected older youth kill their boss and his family and then attempt to flood the rivers of Tokyo with fresh water jellyfish. Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:58:17 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] weird costume link + halloween viewing At 03:33 PM 10/31/2003 -0700, Roger Winston wrote: >disaffected older >youth kill their boss and his family and then attempt to flood the rivers of >Tokyo with fresh water jellyfish. I hate it when that happens. later, Miles p.s.: Happy Halloween to all! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:23:13 -0800 From: John Cooper Subject: Re: [loud-fans] weird costume link + halloween viewing > From: "Roger Winston" > > I saw Kurosawa's latest movie Happy Halloween, indeed! (Much to my disappointment, Akira Kurosawa is not making movies from beyond the grave. BRIGHT FUTURE was directed by Kiyoshi Kurosawa). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:24:50 -0800 From: John Cooper Subject: Re: [loud-fans] weird costume link + halloween viewing > From: John Cooper > Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:23:13 -0800 > To: loud-fans > Subject: Re: [loud-fans] weird costume link + halloween viewing > >> From: "Roger Winston" >> >> I saw Kurosawa's latest movie > > Happy Halloween, indeed! > > (Much to my disappointment, Akira Kurosawa is not making movies from beyond > the grave. BRIGHT FUTURE was directed by Kiyoshi Kurosawa). As G. Andrew said. That's what I get for reading Loud-Fans on one computer while simultaneously working on a second. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:51:18 -0800 (PST) From: "G. Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] weird costume link + halloween viewing >> (Much to my disappointment, Akira Kurosawa is not making movies from >> beyond the grave. BRIGHT FUTURE was directed by Kiyoshi Kurosawa). > > As G. Andrew said. That's what I get for reading Loud-Fans on one > computer while simultaneously working on a second. Kurosawa Akira *is* making movies from beyond the grave. Sort of. At least three of his scripts made it to the screen posthumously, directed by others of course: AFTER THE RAIN, aka WHEN THE RAIN LIFTS (AME AGARU), DORA-HEITA (co-written by Kurosawa and three other Japanese directors, starring my man Yakusho Koji as a comic, conniving samurai), and THE SEA IS WATCHING (UMI WA MITEITA). Scarecrow should have them all, of course. And if you want to count LAST MAN STANDING... Andy "Q: Is part of your job to be familiar with the materials that are widely distributed through the various media, such as magazines and videotapes?" "A: The general types, yes." "Q: And is part of your job duties to review the content of currently released magazines and videos?" "A: No." "Q: So if, for instance, in the last five years, say... Penthouse and Hustler magazines had regularly featured urination as part of the pictorials, is that something that you would become aware of in your professional capacity?" "A: If it was brought to our attention or we noticed it, yes." "Q: In your professional or personal capacity, over the course of the last five years, have you regularly or intermittently viewed the pages of Hustler and Penthouse?" "A: No."... "Q: And if I were to represent to you that in the pages of Hustler and Penthouse, editorials [sic] regularly depict nude women masturbating and urinating, do you have any reason to believe that to be true or false, or do you have any idea?" "A: I don't have an idea." "Q: If you were to believe the hypothetical that I just laid out that Penthouse and Hustler magazines regularly depict women urinating and masturbating in their pictorials, would you believe that that has any implications for what the community standards are in the state of California?" "A: No."... "Q: If every issue of widely distributed magazines such as Penthouse depicted masturbation and urination, is your testimony that you would not feel that that would be an indicator of a changed community standard?" "A: No."... "Q: If I could show you that every single videotape that was released in the last year contained a scene of urination and masturbation, would that change your opinion as to what the community standard in the state of California was?" "A: No."... "Q: Would it influence your opinion as to the changed community standard if I were to show you that as the percentage of movies released that contained urination and masturbation, that the number of sales either stayed the same or increased?" "A: No." "Q: So is it correct that consumer consumption of a particular content in your opinion is irrelevant to the issue of community standard?" "A: Can I answer that other than 'Yes' or 'No'?" "Q: Let's start with 'Yes' or "no,' and then go on from there." "A: Okay. No." - --dialogue between defense attorney Jeffrey Douglas and Steven Takeshita, head of the Los Angeles Organized Crime Vice Division, in the matter of People v. Shoemaker and McDonald; from http://www.adultvideonews.com/legal/leg0903_01.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:39:33 -0500 From: Jenny Grover Subject: [loud-fans] upcoming pearl jam pre-orders If you plan to get both of these releases, if you pre-order them together, it saves you money. Jen _____________________________ PEARL JAM FANS -- Coming November 11th... Pearl Jam's most anticipated new releases: The Double-CD rarities album, Lost Dogs, and the 2-DVD set, Pearl Jam Live At The Garden. 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