From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V3 #307 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Tuesday, October 21 2003 Volume 03 : Number 307 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Actually, REM has sucked since the second song of that gig at the converted church [Jeffrey with ] [loud-fans] Berry/Buck/Mills/Stipe/Sucks [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:59:01 -0500 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Actually, REM has sucked since the second song of that gig at the converted church Quoting Bill Silvers : > Jeffrey wrote: > >was, as a goof, a bit forced to really work, even though I like > >parts of it. It doesn't (to coin a phrase) suck - but I think > it > >doesn't work that well on the album: thus, "b-side." > > Uh, I guess this makes sense, but how, exactly? Sure, "Can't Get > There From > Here" is a bit of an anomaly on FABLES, but that doesn't in > itself make it > a b-side. To the contrary, it's a strong enough single (and > clearly, > well-regarded by many) to merit inclusion on EPONYMOUS, the > sort-of > greatest hits compilation. I mean, what other song from FABLES > would > constitute an "a-side" by its congruence with the rest of the > record (to > use your apparent definition) and its suitability to be a > in-rotation tune > for radio (the standard by which a single is typically judged)? Well first, the issue of whether a song makes a good single isn't the same as whether it fits an album - and b-sides are generally *not* songs that are potential hits. The b-side is a traditional location for the song that doesn't quite fit the album, the off-beat genre experiment, etc. - in my ears, both descriptions that fit CGTFH perfectly. So the bit about "what song should represent Fables on the Eponymous collection" really doesn't have anything to do w/whether CGTFH is b-side material or not. But I'll answer it all the same: "Driver 8," clearly. However, I may take back my remarks about relegating it to a b-side, at least if that means removing it from the album. When your first side begins with "Feeling Gravitys Pull" and ends with "Old Man Kensey," you really need something to pick up the listener on the second side of the album (ah-ha! *that*'s the sense in which it's a b-side...of the LP!). And no other song on side 2 would work that way: you have the really beautiful, but melancholy, duo of "Green Grow the Rushes" and "Kohoutek," then "Auctioneer" (which has always struck me as "Gravity"'s Mini-Me), "Good Advices" (which needs "Auctioneer" between it and "Rushes and "Kohoutek," because all three songs share a mood and tempo), and finally "Wendell Gee," which clearly is an album-ender. The only other uptempo, major-key track is "Life and How to Live it," and that track has enough spooky intensity so that it doesn't really relieve the rather dark feel of the album. I conclude that whatever its merits as an individual track (certainly not in the top rank of R.E.M.'s catalogue), it's pretty essential to this album. So I was wrong, but primarily because of that function, not because the song itself could stand up better. Fables, though, is a good example of how R.E.M. albums are pretty readily separated into two tiers in terms of song quality. (Okay, people will disagree...) "Old Man Kensey," "Auctioneer," and "Wendell Gee" just aren't in the same league as the best songs on this album, and "Good Advices" isn't quite as memorable to me as "Rushes" or "Kohoutek" (although it does have that wonderful arching Mike Mills bassline over the lines about "hat in your hand," and in the last verse that guitar countermelody...okay, I'm changing my mind again: I really like the song). Finally: all of this persuades me that when R.E.M. is at its best, it makes coherent albums whose strength derives from their parts' interaction - even the lesser songs serve a purpose in the flow of the album as a whole. This, by the way, was one of my complaints about Reveal: there are like four or five songs in a row in the same key and tempo (slow), by the end of which I'm ready to dismiss the whole album. Resquence it (and I think I came up with an order once - Andy H. probably will direct us to the archives...) and it's improved pretty strongly (always: IMO). Jeff Ceci n'est pas une .sig ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:07:23 -0500 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [loud-fans] Berry/Buck/Mills/Stipe/Sucks Re Tim's comments on the "mawkishness" of "Flowers of Guatemala": I see why you'd read it that way, but to me the song has always been rather creepy (in a good way) - probably since I found out amanita is a poisonous mushroom, and the strange, narcotized way Stipe keeps singing "cover over everything...": more like smothering than anything else. But that's just me - I mean, just today I was listening to Gary Numan. Jeff Ceci n'est pas une .sig ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:13:57 -0500 From: Bill Silvers Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Actually, REM has sucked since the second song of that gig at the converted church Jeffrey wrote: >Well first, the issue of whether a song makes a good single isn't >the same as whether it fits an album - and b-sides are generally >*not* songs that are potential hits. Exactly, which is why characterizing "Can't Get There From Here" as a b-side is idiosyncratic. b.s. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:21:11 -0700 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: Re: [loud-fans] when the world is a midlife crisis attempt toreclaim rock band status Aaron Milenski wrote: > > > > If I had to axe one song from the REM catalog, it would be "Shiney Happy > > > People." > > > >You haven't heard the "Sesame Street" version > > Geez, I don't know about you, but I think if the Sesame Street > characters cover your song that's an eternal badge of honor!! I think so too.. I like "SHP", but "Furry Happy Monsters" is one of those covers that definitely improves on the original. That's what I was trying to say, that anyone who doesn't like the song needs to hear the definitive "Sesame Street" version.. "Monsters feeling glad" http://users.pandora.be/grand_royal/REM/sets/1998/sesam.htm > I'd much rather hear it than the monotonous, overlong "The One I Love." Overlong? That song is just over three minutes! R.E.M. did a new stripped down, piano-driven arrangement of "The One I Love" on their recent tour that didn't really work at all (IMO). It reminded me a lot of Eric Clapton's unplugged version of "Layla" -- a riff-driven song stripped of it's riff, leaving the lyrics to stand by themselves. - -Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:30:40 -0700 From: Tim Walters Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Berry/Buck/Mills/Stipe/Sucks On Monday, October 20, 2003, at 08:07 PM, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > Re Tim's comments on the "mawkishness" of "Flowers of Guatemala": I > see why you'd read it that way, but to me the song has always been > rather creepy (in a good way) - probably since I found out amanita > is a poisonous mushroom, and the strange, narcotized way Stipe > keeps > singing "cover over everything...": more like smothering than > anything else. While there are things in the lyrics that reinforce my impression (I *think* it's about flowers on graves), my main complaint (as with AFTP) is with the music, which seems really precious and cloying. Although, come to think of it, that section of "Man On The Moon" where Stipe lists Andy Kaufman's film roles, interspersed with "yeah yeah yeah yeah," is kind of a low point as well. And isn't amanita hallucinogenic? Or have I got it mixed up with something else? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:43:50 -0700 From: "Vallor" Subject: [loud-fans] a craven intrusion Hello Loudfans, Sorry for the intrustion and if this is inappropriate, please let me know. I have a batch of stuff on eBay currently, ending this Thursday afternoon, the link is : http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=cassetto or search by seller "Cassetto". Some of the items are... Let's Active Cypress UK LP w/ Grey Scale Guitarrorists rare 2xLP Dean of LUNA, all but Steve of Sonic Youth Sonic Boom of Spacemen 3 & EAR, Mark Robinson of Unrest, Steve Albini's "Nutty About Lemurs" Paul Westerberg indy Grandpaboy CD REPLACEMENTS Game Theory FAN CLUB lyric book The Byrds Preflyte 1969 Different PRMO label on Together KFJC subsc CD Acid Mothers Temple, Bevis Frond, Major Stars, Dead Moon, Angel 'In Heavy Syrup Ween 2 Flying Nun 7"'s Voodoo Lady + Freedom Of '76 Any Trouble Live & Alive promo mini LP 1980 Shonen Knife trbute 2 LP Pandoras 10 Xtra Trx not on the CD also includes Christmas, The Three O'Clock, Big Dipper, Sonic Youth Jayhawks dbl CD interview w/ 11 song history DJ Prmo Buzzcocks new album CD on Merge Flamin' Groovies Barbary Coast CD Chris Wilson also of The Barracudas/Mike Wilhelm also of The Charlatans The Music Tapes CD w/ inserts/diarama Elephant Six 6 Rare Tom Waits LP's (Bone Machine & Black Rider) from the UK 3 Xpressway relatd Scorched Earth Policy - AD, This Kind Of Punishment- Beard Of Bees, Sandra Bell- Dreams Of Falling Plasticland Salon Canada LP David Kilgour My Sky lathe edition of 50 The Clean NZ David Kilgour Way Down NZ LATHE edition of 50 The Clean Flying Nun Squire Get Smart UK LP Mod Three O'Clock inspired Power Pop Squire September Gurls 12" POWER POP Big Star cover Squire No Time Tomorrow 7" Mod POWER POP Miles Davis mixes - PRMO CD w/ DJ Crush track not on commercially released CD The Chills Kaleidoscope World orig Flying Nun label The MARBLES Red Lights 7" ORK Power Pop 1976 Sebadoh Weed Forestin Hmstd LP Folk Implosion Great Unwashed double 7" The Clean Flying Nun The Primitives LOVELY CD 1988 General Mills Monster school pk Count Chocula Rank And File 2 orig LPs Alejandro Escovedo and loads more... Thanks for putting up with this- Dan Vallor - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Lathe Universe NZ Underground Resource http://home.comcast.net/~cassetto/ Xpressway List Group http://www.egroups.com/group/Xpressway - --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V3 #307 *******************************