From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V3 #285 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Tuesday, September 30 2003 Volume 03 : Number 285 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] you'd better hurry cos it's going fast... [Jeffrey with 2 Fs ] Re: [loud-fans] Good, there are no Glenns in this post [Miles Goosens ] [loud-fans] music suggestions for Miles or whoever ["Brian Block" Subject: [loud-fans] you'd better hurry cos it's going fast... I hate to break the taboo about mentioning certain acts on this list, but in fact the Loud Family DVD, documenting the band's final tour (I think you should have pushed the ice-cream idea further and called it "The Last Malts"), is available from 125 (http://www.125records.com). The first 100 customers get $5 off - about 60 folks have bought the DVD so far... Jeff Ceci n'est pas une .sig ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:19:00 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Good, there are no Glenns in this post At 12:53 AM 9/30/2003 -0400, Stewart Mason wrote: >At 11:16 PM 9/29/2003 -0500, Miles Goosens wrote: >>Strangely, I'm not so much into the "loud is the new quiet" bands >>either, though I'll take them over the strings and vibes set any day. >> >>last played: music list recommendation #1,472 since 1994 that I've >>bought and not liked much, a.k.a. the British Sea Power album > >Speaking of these things, how goes the search for new music that actually >interests you, or have you just given up and started to embrace fogeydom? Actually, a sort of answer to that question went in the snail mail to you today. Can we stop with the pissy ad hominem jibes when I say something negative about some artist or TV show that you like? It's not as though I've been taking the things you say about, fer instance, Radiohead or the 3rd and 4th Judybats records as some sort of personal diss by proxy. But maybe I should have. And pretending for a moment that you want your question answered... 1) I'd think buying and trying 1,472 new albums since 1994 would be proof enough that I'd like to find some new things that interest me. Especially when you factor in dollars spent and listening time, it seems like a massive commitment to finding new music that I might like. 2) I think I've endorsed plenty of new music on this forum and/or in my yearly best-of lists. However, it is completely true that since the mid-'90s, I haven't heard as much that I've liked, and I do think that a major factor in that is soft pop's rise to prominence in indie-pop circles. 3) OK, envision the following scenario: one day in 1994, you, Stewart Mason, walk into your favorite grocery store. Much to your dismay, you discover that half the items now contain ketchup or ersatz ketchup flavoring. You decided to eat out instead, but the ketchup craze has taken over your favorite dining establishments, and half the menu items are now things like Tandoori Ketchup Chicken and Krispy Ketchup Kremes. And as the next ten years unfold, even foods you'd loved before go over to the Red Side -- the Cap'n Stipey's Choco Crisp you used to eat for breakfast every day becomes Cap'n Stipey's Ketchup Puffs. While I'm sure you'd still find things you'd like to eat, I think you'd miss the days when you had a fuller range of viable culinary choices. Me, I like ketchup just fine, but I wouldn't expect you to just shut up and eat the Ketchup Puffs, and if you complained about today's ketchup-saturated foods, I, ketchup-lover that I am, might even agree that ketchup had become too omnipresent and offer you some commiseration. Or maybe I'd just send you some compromising footage of Burt Bacharach and Amy Sherman-Palladino in an alley behind a Los Angeles club, drinking straight out of a Heinz EZ Squirt bottle. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:51:42 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Good, there are no Glenns in this post At 12:19 PM 9/30/2003 -0500, Miles Goosens wrote: >At 12:53 AM 9/30/2003 -0400, Stewart Mason wrote: >>Speaking of these things, how goes the search for new music that actually >>interests you, or have you just given up and started to embrace fogeydom? > >Actually, a sort of answer to that question went in the snail mail to you today. Can we stop with the pissy ad hominem jibes when I say something negative about some artist or TV show that you like? It's not as though I've been taking the things you say about, fer instance, Radiohead or the 3rd and 4th Judybats records as some sort of personal diss by proxy. But maybe I should have. > >And pretending for a moment that you want your question answered... Actually, I did. If you'll recall, some months ago, you posted a mildly desperate plea for recommendations on new albums and artists because you were feeling like you were losing touch with current music. Several people, including myself, chimed in with at least a couple dozen possibilities. I was sincerely asking if you had followed any of them up. There's no pissy ad hominem jibe there, simply a sincere question that you chose to ignore in favor of a rant. So forget I asked anything. S NP: THESE MISTAKES TOOK YEARS OF PRACTICE -- The Frenetics ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:05:24 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Good, there are no Glenns in this post At 01:51 PM 9/30/2003 -0400, Stewart Mason wrote: >>And pretending for a moment that you want your question answered... > >Actually, I did. If you'll recall, some months ago, you posted a mildly >desperate plea for recommendations on new albums and artists because you >were feeling like you were losing touch with current music. Several >people, including myself, chimed in with at least a couple dozen >possibilities. I was sincerely asking if you had followed any of them up. >There's no pissy ad hominem jibe there, simply a sincere question that you >chose to ignore in favor of a rant. So forget I asked anything. If it was a sincere question, I think you ought to be concerned that the combination of your oft-truculent online persona and the actual words you put in the e-mail caused me to grievously misinterpret your tone and intent. Nevertheless, Stewart makes a valid point -- I asked for recommendations back in June, but hadn't returned the favor by letting y'all know how they turned out. So lessee... ...Stewart did a very generous wrapup of things he'd been listening to at the time. Out of those, I already had and liked the Roky Erickson and Eno/Hammill, already didn't care much for Ivor Cutler, and decided from his descriptions that I'd pass for now on Club 8, the Lovetones, Masters of the Hemisphere, Spirea X, and Danny Thompson. I never seemed to get into a record store with the rest of the list (interested in: Culture, Dengue Fever, Mono, Methadones, and possibly AZ, Bill Nelson, and Dame Darcy), but duly prompted, I will now. Jeffrey and Dave Walker also contributed useful comments on Stewart's list. Dana offered some help with +/- and Pinback, but did so by namechecking bands that I hadn't heard either. But he also hooked me up with with a site that had +/- samples, which I used to discover that I wasn't that interested in +/-, though "I've Been Lost" has such a deliberately unconventional use of dynamics in the verses that it almost persuaded me otherwise. Such sites are indeed a useful thing. Other recommendations and/or discussed albums from the thread... * Cat Power's latest (recommended by Aaron Mandel). I sampled a song or three but did not buy. I liked what I heard better than I liked Cat Power before, but that's sort of like saying that I thought that Brooke Shields' acting in SUDDENLY SUSAN was the best of her career. * the Postal Service (Aaron). I'll probably pick this one up before year end, especially after Loud-Lurker Tom Krueger recently mentioned to me off-list that he was digging it. * Cobra Verde (Aaron). Liked what I've heard, and have always been fond of the Roxy trashiness of the NIGHTLIFE cover. I think I've been waiting for the new one to appear in a used bin, but I should really just buy it next time I see it, whether it's new or used. * Four Tet (Aaron, Chris Prew). Haven't followed up on it. * the Yeah Yeah Yeahs (Stewart). I've bought one of theirs, but haven't had time to listen to it properly. * Nada Surf's LET GO (Bill Silvers). I haven't gotten it yet, though I've heard enough good things about it to go ahead with getting it. I think the last time I was going to buy it, the latest two Felt reissues showed up at Tower, so that's what I went home with instead. Fogey indeed. * Legendary Shack Shakers (Bill Silvers). I still haven't heard this, even though they're from here and Jason Ringenberg has recommended 'em. I had it in my hand last time I was in Grimey's, but then spotted that Crop Circle Hoax CD I promised myself I'd buy the next time I saw it, so the Shack Shakers purchase got postponed. * Caitlin Cary (Bill Silvers). I got I'M STAYING OUT and like it pretty well, though it's still a shade too sedate for me to flip over it. * Pete Namlook (Dave Walker). I'm intrigued, but a bit intimidated by the size of the Fax catalog. Since Dave gave a specific recommendation (NAMLOOK VII), I guess I should just use it as a starting point. Argh, I hadn't realized that I had followed up on so few of these! I promise to rectify this over the next few weeks. I appreciate the contributions from everyone, and I promise not to complain again about the dearth of new & interesting music until I work through some more of these. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:23:38 -0400 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Good, there are no Glenns in this post > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-loud-fans@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-loud-fans@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Miles Goosens > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 4:05 PM > To: quercian rosicrucian psychobabble > Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Good, there are no Glenns in this post > > > At 01:51 PM 9/30/2003 -0400, Stewart Mason wrote: > >>And pretending for a moment that you want your question answered... > > > >Actually, I did. If you'll recall, some months ago, you posted a > >mildly desperate plea for recommendations on new albums and artists > >because you were feeling like you were losing touch with > current music. > >Several people, including myself, chimed in with at least a couple > >dozen possibilities. I was sincerely asking if you had > followed any of > >them up. There's no pissy ad hominem jibe there, simply a sincere > >question that you chose to ignore in favor of a rant. So forget I > >asked anything. > > If it was a sincere question, I think you ought to be > concerned that the combination of your oft-truculent online > persona and the actual words you put in the e-mail caused me > to grievously misinterpret your tone and intent. > > Nevertheless, Stewart makes a valid point -- I asked for > recommendations back in June, but hadn't returned the favor > by letting y'all know how they turned out. So lessee... > > ...Stewart did a very generous wrapup of things he'd been > listening to at the time. Out of those, I already had and > liked the Roky Erickson and Eno/Hammill, already didn't care > much for Ivor Cutler, and decided from his descriptions that > I'd pass for now on Club 8, the Lovetones, Masters of the > Hemisphere, Spirea X, and Danny Thompson. I never seemed to > get into a record store with the rest of the list (interested > in: Culture, Dengue Fever, Mono, Methadones, and possibly AZ, > Bill Nelson, and Dame Darcy), but duly prompted, I will now. > Jeffrey and Dave Walker also contributed useful comments on > Stewart's list. > > Dana offered some help with +/- and Pinback, but did so by > namechecking bands that I hadn't heard either. But he also > hooked me up with with a site that had +/- samples, which I > used to discover that I wasn't that interested in +/-, though > "I've Been Lost" has such a deliberately unconventional use > of dynamics in the verses that it almost persuaded me > otherwise. Such sites are indeed a useful thing. > > Other recommendations and/or discussed albums from the thread... > > * Nada Surf's LET GO (Bill Silvers). I haven't gotten it > yet, though I've heard enough good things about it to go > ahead with getting it. I think the last time I was going to > buy it, the latest two Felt reissues showed up at Tower, so > that's what I went home with instead. Fogey indeed. Miles that new Nada Surf album's one of my favorite albums this year, don't delay any longer. I think they're currently on tour too. Two others high on my list this summer are the new one from Trolleyvox which may be rehashing that 80's jangle sound a bit, but they do it deliciously, and the new one from the George Usher Group which reminds me in some ways of Game Theory. Anyone else think that first song on the latest Pernice Brothers album sounds GbV? Larry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:27:19 -0400 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: [loud-fans] R.E.M. Webcast Tonight I don't think anyone has posted about this yet. http://tinyurl.com/p85y Larry -----Original Message----- From: Neb Rodgers [mailto:clam_nebula@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 11:25 PM To: Paisley Pop; Group Yahoo LetsActive Subject: [Mitch Easter - Let's Active ] Fwd: R.E.M. Webcast Tomorrow Night (and related news) Gentlemen, start your tape recorders! -Neb --- clamnebula wrote: > Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:17:07 -0000 > From: "clamnebula" > To: clam_nebula@yahoo.com > Subject: Fwd: R.E.M. Webcast Tomorrow Night (and related news) > > --- In guitartown@yahoogroups.com, "JoeNathan8" wrote: > > Live from Toronto, more info here: > http://tinylink.com/?eODYWMpVl8 > > They're also going to be on Letterman Thursday night and the Today > Show Friday morning. The tracklist for the new best of (In Time) was > recently announced, including the bonus disc of rarities. There is > also reportedly a live DVD on the way as well. And finally, > Murmurs.com's Ethan Kaplan has an interview up that he recently did > with Stipe. Perhaps more interesting is the Jim DeRogaitis interview > with Peter Buck. That fella isn't afraid to ask the tough questions > and Buck isn't afraid to answer them. Definitely a well informed and > insightful read. More info can be found at remhq.com and murmurs.com. > > Jonathan > > --- End forwarded message --- > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:48:31 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: [loud-fans] Quiet is the New Old / Drunk is the Old Loud / etc. Miles: >>But Andy, yes, I despise Burt's music, and have a very low tolerance for >>whatever the hell you want to call it (soft pop, lounge, quiet-is-the-new-loud, >>orch pop, etc.). All understandable, but does the style always invalidate the songs? (It's okay if it does, or if you just think the songs suck on their own). It's just kind of interesting. Bacharach himself is hit or miss in my book, and most of the genres you list aren't that engaging to me at all. But one of my favorite songwriters of recent years, Stew, is always getting the Bacharach (and Webb etc.) comparison, although his music is less drippy than most of the stuff I think you're referencing. In fact he must be really sick of being called "the black Bacharach"... I'm so sick of it on his behalf that I briefly considered billing myself as "the white Stew". Stewart: >>Speaking of these things, how goes the search for new music that actually >>interests you, or have you just given up and started to embrace fogeydom? Poorly, and pretty much. Wait, that was for Miles, huh? (Miles and I seem to have a "fogeydom points of departure" that correspond almost directly to our respective ages.) - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:43:09 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: RE: [loud-fans] Good, there are no Glenns in this post At 04:23 PM 9/30/2003 -0400, Larry Tucker wrote: >Two others high on my list this summer are the new one from Trolleyvox >which may be rehashing that 80's jangle sound a bit, but they do it >deliciously Speaking as someone who has been thoroughly sick of the whole jangle-pop aesthetic for the last several years, I totally wasn't expecting to like the new Trolleyvox album (LEAP OF FOLLY, www.groovedisques.com) much at all, but it's just stunning, one of my favorite albums of the year. Beth Filla's got a tremendous voice, and Andrew Chalfen's songs reach for something more than the "let's try to sound as much like Badfinger as possible" attitude of the Audities/Not Lame bands. "Les Fleurs de Lys" and "Oregon Lanes" are two of my favorite songs in ages. S NP: JOKES ABOUT THE MEDICAL PROFESSION -- Preoccupied Pipers (just out, and based on the first six songs, maybe their best yet; one of these days, people are going to notice that K.C. Bowman has become the best oddball-pop songwriter in California) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:00:17 -0700 From: Steve Holtebeck Subject: [loud-fans] jupiter and saturn, oberon, miranda, and titania Michele wrote: > BTW, since some of you may not know, I admit this is the perfect > excuse for me to mention that Jupiter Affect's second full-length cd, > "The Restoration of Culture after Genghis Khan," was recently released > on Orange Sky records. The line-up has changed, and they have a new > guitarist and a new keyboard player. I've barely listened through the > cd once, so I can't comment much, except to say that it has a much > more straightforward, heavy-rock sound than the previous cd. And you can hear the new Jupiter Affect without risking any exposure to the rosicruican/masonic imagery on the cover, you can download the whole album as 128k mp3s for $5.99 (or 50 cents per song) http://www.mordamrecords.com/partners/ORANGESKY/detail.php3?item=6010 I don't see any potential controversial imagery on the cover, but lots of "interesting" song titles! Some of the older Orange Sky CDs (like the first Tyde album) are available as free mp3s, and some of their titles are on emusic (random plug: Honeyrider!), so the Jupiter Affect album may show up somewhere like emusic in the near future. Or better yet, just buy the damn CD! It won't kill you.. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:25:11 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: [loud-fans] hrm so the interesting thing here is that in order to dispell an accusation of fogeyhood, one apparently has to go drop a c-note or two on comparitively difficult to find music, about which one knows only that it was strongly recommended be people whose taste is demonstrably not 100% congruent with one's own. with an emusic subscription and (at the time) a fat pipe to suck the 'net from i was able to spend literally a whole day listening to pete namlook and conclude that some of it was utter twaddle and some of it was pretty cool. if i'd bought fifteen records to arrive at the same conclusion i wouldn't have been nearly as pleased. since i got it free in the mail, i was able to conclude that the murderdolls record was trashy fun in much the same way early misfits and alice cooper are trashy fun, but given the option of paying list price for the sucker, i woulda just cued up "last caress" and "dead babies" a few times instead. hmmm. - -- d. np something by kleen ex-girl [sic] wonder that's not all that great ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:40:11 +0000 From: "Brian Block" Subject: [loud-fans] music suggestions for Miles or whoever I've apparently become so self-identified as a lurker that i totally missed a chance to try and brainwash Miles when he asked for music suggestions a few months ago. Here then, for him or anyone else who likes to buy stuff, is a post with quick descriptions of some albums i've really liked from 2002/2003. Tthe list is long, the descriptions are short, and my full reviews of several of these albums exist at http://www.epinions.com/user-voxpoptart . Aerogramme, SLEEP AND RELEASE: for those who figured that if Smashing Pumpkins were going to break up, it should've been in order to become _more_ epic, heavy, and complex. Aloha, SUGAR: the second and more accessible release by a talented band trying (successfully, i think) to merge "out" jazz with pop and hints of surging rock. Atom and his Package, ATTENTION BLAH BLAH BLAH: unpolished top-of-his head anecdotes about friends, moving to a new house, and interesting stuff he read, sung with wheedly vocals over cheap but creative and energetic Casio/guitar pop. Dan Bern, FLEETING DAYS: actually i think it's a letdown from NEW AMERICAN LANGUAGE (which i thought was amazing), but the second straight Bern album to place his smart-aleck pop-culture humor second to his band's tight country-folk-rock, and to make it more obvious that the glibness conceals honest emotions. Bleu, REDHEAD: less the evil Bacharach than Sinatra, less Sinatra than Queen, unafraid to jangle-rock now and then, and unapologestically aiming to be a pop masterpiece. Blur, THINK TANK: for two albums in a row now, Damon Albarn actually sings like he gives a shit what he's singing about. The music is abstract, groove-based, and very pretty. Kitty Brazelton, WHAT IS IT LIKE TO BE A BAT?: two 26-minute compositions, dazzlingly sung, that weave a coherent avant-garde clamor out of opera, metal, Broadway, industrial, pop, and chamber music. Cold Memory, DAMAGE/ NO DAMAGE: ragged four-chord rock with smart lyrics and catchy performances, a bit like if U2 had had hardcore punk roots. Cordelia's Dad, WHAT IT IS: an R.E.M. for a darker world, with askew rhythms, off-balance dynamics, and a companionable paranoia in the group-sung lyrics. Custom, FAST: what Beck's ODELAY might have been like with actual _songs_, and tunes and emotions and empathy, to go with his staggeringly modern and open-minded theft of the cooler ideas from two dozen genres. Damn Personals, STANDING STILL IN THE USA: my favorite pure rock record since Veruca Salt's EIGHT ARMS TO HOLD YOU: urgent, smart, dynamic, full of great riffs, and very nicely structured as an album. Do As Infinity, TRUE SONG: glossy, mainstream Japanese mall-pop with energy, bounce, a great female singer, and an amazing amount of care and imagination given to the arrangements, even without considering the one song with Japanese folk influence, or the Irish jig. Doves, THE LAST BROADCAST: a beautiful and melancholy record that to me outclasses THE JOSHUA TREE on its own terms, benefitting from the bands' electronic dance-music album and their ability to sustain seven-minute compositions as if pop naturally gravitated to the form. Christine Fellows, LAST ONE STANDING: articulate and deeply sad chamber songs with subtle and odd dynamics, something like if Kristin Hersh had a chance to pick her four or five favorite musicians from the local orchestra for an album. John Greaves, THE CARETAKER: where Aloha blend pop/rock with eccentric jazz, Greaves (despite his long-ago membership in Henry Cow) blends them with more typical jazz phrasings and chordings, as well as his stentorian voice, but creates something diverse, smooth, and much more appealing to me than i might've guessed from this descption. Includes a great Dire Straits-y rock song co-written with Andy Partridge. Groove Lily, ARE WE THERE YET?: infusing smart, reserved balladry a la early Paula Cole with the instrumental agility of Bruce Hornsby's jazzy period (piano) and the Dave Matthews Band (violin etc), and coming up with something i'll happily take over any of the ingredients by themselves. Idlewild, THE REMOTE PART: glenn's favorite rock bands have included early R.E.M., three songs' worth of 1987 U2, Big Country, Everclear, and Idlewild, and yes it's fair to make deductions from that. Jets to Brazil, PERFECTING LONELINESS: extended rock songs like a cross between early Elton John and the Damn Personals (see above). Jonny 5 + Yak, ONOMATOPOEIA: the most fiercely, passionately literate album i've heard in hip-hop or maybe anywhere else, rapped with vigor and arranged with rhythmic and instrumental ingenuity. Josh Joplin Group, THE FUTURE THAT WAS: "I sing like Michael Stipe, and i dream like Carl Jung, and i look just like a showgirl who sleeps with her makeup on", sings Josh, and i can only vouch for the first of those, but it would be a little less obvious if the band didn't sound so much like early-90's R.E.M. However, since i think this album is every bit as great as AUTOMATIC FOR THE PEOPLE, and better than OUT OF TIME, i ain't complaining. King Missile III, THE PSYCHOPATHOLOGY OF EVERYDAY LIFE: the music is now weirdo chamber music, rather than the weirdo guitar psychedelia of "Detachable Penis", but the worlds John Hall spins with his self-involved monologues have never been more richly imagined or absurdly logical. It helps to know, though, that he _never_ uses cusswords without a purpose: on this particular album he uses more of them with purpose than on all his other records combined. That's twenty recommendations and i'm through to "K". I guess i'll continue later if anyone's interested; comments and quibbles welcome. cheers, - - Brian _________________________________________________________________ Instant message during games with MSN Messenger 6.0. Download it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:49:49 -0400 From: Jbr21122@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Quiet is the New Old / Drunk is the Old Loud / etc. In a message dated 9/30/2003 4:48:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Rex.Broome@preferredmedia.com writes: But one of > my favorite songwriters of recent years, Stew, is always getting the > Bacharach (and Webb etc.) comparison, although his music is less drippy than > most of the stuff I think you're referencing. In fact he must be really > sick of being called "the black Bacharach"... I'm so sick of it on his > behalf that I briefly considered billing myself as "the white Stew". Maybe you already know this, but Stew's got a new one out. Check his site, it came out on 09/23. I haven't heard it yet; should be getting it today. Back to lurking, Jim Robson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:59:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Good, there are no Glenns in this post On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Miles Goosens wrote: > * Four Tet (Aaron, Chris Prew). Haven't followed up on it. I did? Let me check... Oh yeah, I guess I said that it sounded like I would like it if I liked much of anything without vocals, but I don't, so it's hard to say. Okay. I guess that's still true, though I heard the Dempsey songs he produced, and his production did not in the least redeem the horrible songwriting. a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:42:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "G. Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] pimpin' the papers > I haven't actually read everything on Gee Andy's list yet "Well, get on it then!" >but I'd like > to suggest that Tom Perotta's _The Wishbones_ belongs on this list I enjoy reading Perotta, but find his books like the proverbial Chinese dinner: half an hour later, I'm hungry again. Liked the bit where the sofa-bound guitarist muses to himself that Amy Grant's Christianity makes him lust after her much more. > Ian Hunter's _Diary of a Rock'n'Roll Star_, too. Yes, I've heard wild things about this one. > Moses Avalon's > _Confessions of a Record Producer_ probably just misses as an "everyone" > book, but it's tremendously useful for understanding how (and some of > why) the music biz is structured as it is. You might enjoy Geoffrey Stokes' STAR-MAKING MACHINERY, which sounds like it covers some of the same turf. > Leg's McNeil's _Please Kill > Me_ might turn a few too many stomachs to count as essential, but the > fact it ain't on Andy's list makes me wonder if somehow he missed it. Silly me, it was two feet from my left hand this whole time, sandwiched between YOU ARE GOING TO PRISON and QUEEN OF THE BLACK BLACK. *pull* *books falling* My major beef with this one: the authors snipped and tucked from a wide variety of interviews conducted, in many cases, not by them, without giving the original interviewers or publications any credit. The copy I have is an uncorrected proof, though, so it's remotely possible it doesn't contain the full credits. Also, a couple of passages, about how Stiv Bators' lifelong refusal to see a doctor probably cost him his life, are struck through with ball-point. I wonder if they had to go for legal reasons... Even with mostly-stolen material, it's essential reading for anyone wanting to know punk 1967-1992, which I hope is everyone here. Stomach-turning? I don't see it. The bit about Leee Black Childers, Bebe Buell, and the CBGB's chili, maybe. But many find Bebe Buell more repugnant that any chili. It's depressing, of course, how many of the players died young and/or messy, something I saw also in the Germs oral history, LEXICON DEVIL, and the oral history of L.A. punk, WE GOT THE NEURTON BOMB, which contains some of the same material. A woman I know was once a Darby groupie, and she's visible for a split-second in THE DECLINE OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION. She's now a successful businesswoman, living with one of my best friends and getting ready to have their first child. She loved Darby, and I think she still does. But she knows how lucky she was to get out. Wonder if the DC scene has a similar mortality rate. > Finally, a pair maybe too narrow in their appeal, but so near and dear > to my heart I can't omit 'em: Andersen/Jenkins' harDCcore history _Dance > of Days_ (a little bit gee-whiz and a little bit "and band a begat band > b" and a lot narrated with blinders, but still a remarkable portrayal) Wouldn't mind reading this one, but my favorite DC-area band from that era is still Happy Flowers (distant second: Bad Brains). And I liked the go-go music from that same time, same place, much better so far as a sound goes. When will that stuff get its own book? > and "Punk Planets"' _We Owe You Nothing_. Don't know this one. Details? So long as I'm going long, I can't believe I forgot Caroline Sullivan's BYE BYE BABY, a matter-of-factly unbelieveable true story of a Jersey girl in love with the Bay City Rollers, who did not love her back, though she got further than most. Greil Marcus' MYSTERY TRAIN persuaded me that rock writing was a worthy lifelong pursuit. I wouldn't be who I am without LIPSTICK TRACES or IN THE FASCIST BATHROOM either. Before Marcus, Robert Duncan's KISS biography shocked, confused, and convinced me that a rock writer could be out of his head and still sell a book (though that might might be less than sanguine long-term..."I'm Always Chasing Rainbows"...). I don't have KISS, and wish I did, but I do have his followup book, THE NOISE, more all-inclusive, more shamanistic, and hence probably a better book. While not devoted exclusively to music, Ellen Willis' BEGINNING TO SEE THE LIGHT illuminates how love for music intertwines with, and informs, one's lives and loves generally. THE CRAWDADDY! BOOK gives us the birth of rock criticism, and as ambivalent as I remain about Paul Williams' work, I admire, and sometimes envy, his willingness to stand naked. On top of which, you wouldn't want to miss Samuel R. Delany on Big Brother and the Holding Company, would you? Notice I never asked whether Elizabeth was *alone* in the shower when she made her discovery, Andy "I was raised on Led Zeppelin, and they put out albums with songs that were hard next to songs that were quiet. I've always thought that balance was perfect and that that's what people wanted to hear, but obviously I'm wrong. What people want is one thing or the other. Coldplay fans don't want it to get too hard, and people who like Korn just want to hear that rock. The twain shall never meet." - --Scott Lucas of Local H, from http://www.thestranger.com/2003-09-25/music3.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:55:04 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] pimpin' the papers > >but I'd like > > to suggest that Tom Perotta's _The Wishbones_ belongs on this list just had to jump in here...Perota's entire existence is based on the concept that once a guy marries all of the fun is over. It's your typical frat-boy, high-school hero concept and despite the fact that he has interesting plots and good charaterizations my lasting reaction is that he needs to grow up and start blaming himself for all of his problems rather than the women in his life. Hrmph. Aaron _________________________________________________________________ Share your photos without swamping your Inbox. Get Hotmail Extra Storage today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:25:50 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Quiet is the New Old / Drunk is the Old Loud / etc. At 01:48 PM 9/30/2003 -0700, Rex.Broome wrote: >Miles: >>>But Andy, yes, I despise Burt's music, and have a very low tolerance for >>>whatever the hell you want to call it (soft pop, lounge, >quiet-is-the-new-loud, >>>orch pop, etc.). > >All understandable, but does the style always invalidate the songs? (It's >okay if it does, or if you just think the songs suck on their own). I dislike the style so intensely that it's difficult for me to make that kind of separation. For what it's worth, I hate many of Burt's individual songs too. I'd even forgotten that he wrote "Heartlight" until I was nosing around his discography today, so I hadn't even been holding that one against him! In small doses, I'm fine with using big arrangements 'n' such, but most practitioners don't use it as a flavor -- rather, they want their own PET SOUNDS (though it's worth noting that PET SOUNDS itself is more varied than most of the PET SOUNDS descendants), so rather than an interlude of orch pop, it's 45-75 minutes of orch pop. And it seems like seventeen hours of orch pop. Okay, I've transitioned from Bacharach to the Beach Boys, but the stuff I like the least from the '90s seems like a Burt/Brian concoction, injected with a reductive take on Nick Drake for ill measure. Back to Burt and his modern progeny: > one of >my favorite songwriters of recent years, Stew, is always getting the >Bacharach (and Webb etc.) comparison, although his music is less drippy than >most of the stuff I think you're referencing. In fact he must be really >sick of being called "the black Bacharach"... I'm so sick of it on his >behalf that I briefly considered billing myself as "the white Stew". Stew's an interesting case for me. I do like him, partially because of the lack of drippiness, mostly (and relatedly) through sheer dint of personality as manifested in his lyrics and his vocal presence. Early reports on the new one, which I don't have, raise some red flags with me, but that's been true of every Stew/TNP release, and I've made it around to liking all of them. >Stewart: >>>Speaking of these things, how goes the search for new music that actually >>>interests you, or have you just given up and started to embrace fogeydom? > >Poorly, and pretty much. Wait, that was for Miles, huh? (Miles and I seem >to have a "fogeydom points of departure" that correspond almost directly to >our respective ages.) I'll add another data point to that chart, and from a fellow West Virginian: my friend Danny Cantrell (the guy who introduced me and Melissa) was the age I am now when she and I met him in college. Danny had received an engineering degree from Bluefield State in the '70s but didn't like the field, and after a few years as an engineer, he'd gone back to college in the mid-'80s at Concord to get a B.A. in English, which is where we encountered him. Anyway, Danny liked a lot of the same music, something rare in that locale, and sans the readily available info/chat/fellowship with kindred spirits that the Internet affords us nowadays, he and I were thirsty men in the desert. So while school was in session, we sat aside Sunday evenings every week to get together and talk about music. Talking about anything with Danny is a real pleasure, as he's possessed of an inquisitive mind, a unique perspective, genuine insight, and a real gift for storytelling. So he surprised the hell out of me one Sunday when, in the middle of our weekly music confab, he let loose with this zinger: "I'm so tired of music. Everything sounds just sounds like rehashes of the Beatles and Led Zep.* It's all the same stuff, over and over." I mean, you could have blown me over with a feather, since this was the same guy who just a few minutes before was cheerfully pouring over the LP cutout catalogs and talking about Eno's innovations. Me, I felt surrounded by too much cool stuff, and I couldn't believe that a progressive, original mind like Danny's felt that jaded about the music of 1986, not even a lil' bit. That made me very sad for him, because my world was bursting to the seams with fresh, exciting stuff, and it seemed like every week there'd be some new-to-me artist like Robyn Hitchcock or Shriekback or Echo & the Bunnymen or Game Theory to get me enthused about music and life. After a few minutes, Danny's mood had passed and he was waxing enthusiastic about something else, but his earlier comment haunted me. And still does. Especially during the last couple of years, and especially when hearing the Strokes, Hives, Vines, BRMC, etc. (i.e., stuff I fully *expected* to like, the stuff I'd been hoping would happen during the Mope Rock Era of the late '90s), and thinking "why do I need this when I have Stooges albums already?" Danny, oh man, do I get it now. It might not be the newest thing under the sun to find yourself thinking that there's nothing new under the sun, but it's still no fun to realize that you're thinking it. I'd better quit before I invent some new reflexive verb tense. Also, Rex, check back in with me in a few years on your "she's too young" reaction to the 18 to 22 set. When I was your age, like, way back in the late '90s, I used to think that too. ;-) later, Miles *I know the metion of L*d Z*p has some of you cringing (heck, I know a few of y'all wouldn't put the Beatles in the pantheon), but I think you can easily substitute a rock archetype whose music does appeal to you, and still get the sentiment. Me, I have no problem with Zep, but y'all knew that. ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V3 #285 *******************************