From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V3 #223 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, July 31 2003 Volume 03 : Number 223 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [loud-fans] yet more phair [Roger Winston ] Re: [loud-fans] yet more phair ["Aaron Milenski" ] [loud-fans] mink oiled! [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] yet more phair [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] [loud-fans] WARNING! - Bon Jovi content ["Larry Tucker" ] Re: [loud-fans] yet more phair [Dan Sallitt ] Re: [loud-fans] yet more phair [JRT456@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] More Liz Phair (ns) ["John Swartzentruber" ] Re: [loud-fans] oracle(ns) ["John Swartzentruber" ] Re: [loud-fans] More Liz Phair (ns) ["G. Andrew Hamlin" ] [loud-fans] The end of the oracle? (ns) [Dana Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] yet more phair [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] More Liz Phair (ns) [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] More Liz Phair (ns) [Miles Goosens Subject: [loud-fans] yet more phair Our local paper had an interview with Liz Phair today, since she's doing a show in town tonight: http://tinyurl.com/iia1 There's an interesting reply about the sexism issue. Those of you who wanted an example of an older male trying to look too young, here you go: - ------------------ Q: Do you see any sexism in the reaction to your image? A: I do see a lot of sexism. I was just looking through the paper and hit on one of those $9.98 ads. I see Jane's Addiction's there. How come someone's not screaming about someone (Perry Farrell's) age dressing like that? How come when he has low pants showing his belly hair and a vest with no shirt on - why aren't people freaking out that he's too old to dress like that? . . . - ------------------ Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:03:48 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] yet more phair >A: I do see a lot of sexism. I was just looking through the paper and hit >on one of those $9.98 ads. I see Jane's Addiction's there. How come >someone's not screaming about someone (Perry Farrell's) age dressing like >that? How come when he has low pants showing his belly hair and a vest with >no shirt on - why aren't people freaking out that he's too old to dress >like that? . . . What I want to know is why people aren't freaking out that he's too ugly to dress like that? Sorry to make fun of this issue...I think that if people dress a way that makes them feel good, who gives a crap if they look "young" or "old?" Anytime people do things purely to please themselves, I respect them for it. The issue to me is if the change someone makes is not true to themselves and just calculated to create an image for marketing purposes. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:12:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [loud-fans] mink oiled! So I'm at my admin. asst. job at a tax accounting firm (summer employment) and typing a letter to a guy...who receives dividends from none other than the Illinois Tool Works. No word on whether he anticipates seeing a doctor in the near future. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey, following a locust J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::a squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous...got me? __Captain Beefheart__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:17:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] yet more phair On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Aaron Milenski wrote: > >A: I do see a lot of sexism. I was just looking through the paper and hit > >on one of those $9.98 ads. I see Jane's Addiction's there. How come > >someone's not screaming about someone (Perry Farrell's) age dressing like > >that? How come when he has low pants showing his belly hair and a vest with > >no shirt on - why aren't people freaking out that he's too old to dress > >like that? . . . Perry Farrell's not dead yet? Who would have guessed... > Sorry to make fun of this issue...I think that if people dress a > way that makes them feel good, who gives a crap if they look > "young" or "old?" Anytime people do things purely to please > themselves, I respect them for it. > > The issue to me is if the change someone > makes is not true to themselves and just calculated to create > an image for marketing purposes. I think many of us were tediously clear in making that distinction, actually. Although, honestly, I can't be quite as laissez-faire (hey! buried Scott ref) as some people, simply because I don't believe any behavior is free of social significance (except, I suppose, if it takes place in complete privacy). This is not at all the same as saying everyone should be a slave to fashion, popular image, etc. - only that whether you like it or not, you communicate an image by the way you dress, wear your hair, etc. You can *defy* those expectations - but I'd like to think you're doing it knowingly, and not "illiterately" - and yes, not just in trying to become a pop star. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::I'M ONLY AS LARGE AS AN ANT AND I'M HIDING INSIDE YOUR CAR:: __cryptic placemat phrase, Madison WI, 1986__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:17:49 -0400 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: [loud-fans] WARNING! - Bon Jovi content Hey, this is pretty cool. Microphotography as art. Love the ones of the pharmaceuticals. Of course you have to check out the surface of a Bon Jovi CD in the "Computer Parts" section. The only appealing thing about that CD eh? http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/micro/gallery.html Larry <> [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of The Molecular Expressions Photo Gallery.url] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:26:09 GMT From: Dana Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] More Liz Phair (ns) Noticed this item in todays tmftml: We can't wait until Joseph Mitchell writes a crazy-ass letter to Slate. (What's that? Oh, right. Oh, yeah, that too.) We think Old Mr. Flood was an embarrassing form of career suicide. I guess Liz has helped add a new...what do you call that anyway...hipster comic reference?...to our language. I expect to see that line repeated, that's for sure. For chart watchers, rest assured that last week she continued to descend. I thought Rod Stewart was supposed to be the best "old guy" to compare to Liz. Artistically legit singer goes crazy-mainstream in an effort to keep sleeping with youngsters? I'm not an expert, though, so open to correction. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:41:28 -0400 From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] yet more phair >>The issue to me is if the change someone >>makes is not true to themselves and just calculated to create >>an image for marketing purposes. > > I think many of us were tediously clear in making that distinction, > actually. If it was tediously clear, I guess it should be discussed. How can you tell the difference? There is probably no action on earth that is 100%/0% "true to themselves" and 0%/100% "calculated" - it's always somewhere in between. The person in question has alternately taken both positions in print, with the "true to themselves" position predominant. - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:01:49 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] yet more phair In a message dated 7/30/03 7:43:24 AM, sallitt@post.harvard.edu writes: << If it was tediously clear, I guess it should be discussed. How can you tell the difference? There is probably no action on earth that is 100%/0% "true to themselves" and 0%/100% "calculated" - it's always somewhere in between. The person in question has alternately taken both positions in print, with the "true to themselves" position predominant. >> As has been tediously noted on this list, Liz Phair allowed record executives to select an entire new wardrobe for her. Say what you will about Perry Farrell, but it's not likely he did anything similar. For further contrast, the new Jane's Addiction record was made without a record deal and any corporate interference. Don't doubt that Liz knows all that, too. (I'm no Farrell fan, but the new Jane's album is pretty good. At least it'll slow down him ruining any more parties with his awful DJ'ing.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:02:26 -0400 From: "John Swartzentruber" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More Liz Phair (ns) On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:26:09 GMT, Dana Paoli wrote: >Noticed this item in todays tmftml: > >We can't wait until Joseph Mitchell writes a crazy-ass letter to Slate. (What's that? Oh, right. Oh, yeah, that too.) We think Old Mr. Flood was an embarrassing form of career suicide. > >I guess Liz has helped add a new...what do you call that anyway...hipster comic reference?...to our language. I expect to see that line repeated, that's for sure. When Dana speaks in tongues, is there anyone here who can tell us what he is saying? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:13:35 GMT From: Dana Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] oracle(ns) >Noticed this item in todays tmftml: > >We can't wait until Joseph Mitchell writes a crazy-ass letter to Slate. (What's that? Oh, right. Oh, yeah, that too.) We think Old Mr. Flood was an embarrassing form of career suicide. > >I guess Liz has helped add a new...what do you call that anyway...hipster comic reference?...to our language. I expect to see that line repeated, that's for sure. When Dana speaks in tongues, is there anyone here who can tell us what he is saying? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The missing footnotes: 1. tmftml: see previous loud-fans posts about the tmftml blog. 2. "career suicide": see previous loud-fans posts about Liz Phair's letter to the NY Times. Hope that helps. Sorry for the shorthand. If you google "tmftml" and check it daily, you'll have hip references galore with which to astound and amuse or confound and bemuse your friends. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:24:26 -0400 From: "John Swartzentruber" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] oracle(ns) On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:13:35 GMT, Dana Paoli wrote: >The missing footnotes: > >1. tmftml: see previous loud-fans posts about the tmftml blog. >2. "career suicide": see previous loud-fans posts about Liz Phair's letter to the NY Times. > >Hope that helps. Sorry for the shorthand. That helps. Now which parts were you and which parts were from the blog? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:30:45 GMT From: Dana Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] more oracle (ns) That helps. Now which parts were you and which parts were from the blog? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >We can't wait until Joseph Mitchell writes a crazy-ass letter to Slate. (What's that? Oh, right. Oh, yeah, that too.) We think Old Mr. Flood was an embarrassing form of career suicide. is blog. All else is dana. I forgot to add ">>>>>>>>" after the blog, which probably would have helped. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:38:32 -0700 (PDT) From: "G. Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More Liz Phair (ns) >>We can't wait until Joseph Mitchell writes a crazy-ass letter to Slate. >> (What's that? Oh, right. Oh, yeah, that too.) We think Old Mr. Flood >> was an embarrassing form of career suicide. I think I can help with this part. Joseph Mitchell (1908-1996) was a highly-lauded New York City-based writer for the "New Yorker" and other publications. He's been posthumously called on the carpet for using a composite character in his nonfiction book OLD MR. FLOOD. Details here: http://slate.msn.com/id/2084316/ http://slate.msn.com/id/2086286/ Mitchell might not have appreciated Mr. Shafer's piece. Ms. O'Rourke (any relation to Jim, I wonder?) ends up defending Mitchell. But without Rod Serling, any letter to Slate will be difficult. I fail to see how any of this has anything to do with Liz Phair, however. "Oh-ho-ho imaginary autonomous?" Not even the right album. Wondering what Miles has against IMAX, too... Andy "While the wicked stand confounded, call me with thy saints surrounded." - --from somewhere in THE BOONDOCK SAINTS (1999) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:43:46 -0600 From: "Roger Winston" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More Liz Phair (ns) John Swartzentruber on 7/30/2003 10:02:26 AM wrote: > When Dana speaks in tongues, is there anyone here who can tell us what > he is saying? I'm pushing babelfish.altavista.com to add a "Dana to English" translator. I need to compile a list of examples for them, so if you have your own list, please send it to me (offlist) and I'll forward it on. Thanks. Note: The "Jeff to Conservative-Speak" and "JRT to Liberal-Speak" translators should be online soon. Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:49:06 GMT From: Dana Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] The end of the oracle? (ns) Mitchell might not have appreciated Mr. Shafer's piece. Ms. O'Rourke (any relation to Jim, I wonder?) ends up defending Mitchell. But without Rod Serling, any letter to Slate will be difficult. I fail to see how any of this has anything to do with Liz Phair, however. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok, we're nearly there (payoff is totally not worth it). Google Meghan O'Rourke + Liz Phair, and all becomes clear. At least, I think it does. What do I know? It's not like any of this came up on *this* list recently. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:52:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] yet more phair On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Dan Sallitt wrote: > >>The issue to me is if the change someone > >>makes is not true to themselves and just calculated to create > >>an image for marketing purposes. > > > > I think many of us were tediously clear in making that distinction, > > actually. > > If it was tediously clear, I guess it should be discussed. How can you > tell the difference? There is probably no action on earth that is > 100%/0% "true to themselves" and 0%/100% "calculated" - it's always > somewhere in between. The person in question has alternately taken both > positions in print, with the "true to themselves" position predominant. I'll try to simplify: * A person has the "right" to look however they want. * A person has the "right" to think someone else looks funny. * Reasons underlying that second item might be that a person thinks someone else's funny looks/clothing/makeup/hairstyle/automotive paint job and/or structural modifications were motivated primarily by other-seeking motivations. * Notwithstanding the last statement, it is by no means true that any one person can accurately judge another person's motivations (furthermore, I don't think anyone can fully and accurately judge their own motivations). *Statements about funny looks are, therefore, opinions, and are to be regarded as opinions are generally regarded, with reference to degree of support, coherence, invidious motivation, etc. So, no, no one can *really* know what Periliz Phairell's motivations are in dressing like a model from a teen magazine - but implications (and therefore opinions) can be drawn from facts surrounding the situation, including the person's own statements, activities, blah-blah-blah. ps: the reason "right" is in quotes above is that part of this discussion, I think, arises from different emphases in using the word. One perspective regards rights primarily as something oneself possesses. Thus: "I have the right to stand on the street corner and preach about the coming Venusian apocalypse." Another perspective regards rights primarily as things all people possess and which government, etc., cannot take away. One problem with the first perspective is that it too often shades into "I have the right to do X, and you have no right to criticize me for doing it." Actually, my right to criticize you arises from the same principles as your having the right to do whatever I'm criticizing. Criticism, funny looks, and children laughing at you are not limitations on your rights; they're people reacting to your exercise thereof by exercising their own rights. So someone says, "I think Liz Phair looks like an idiot." Someone else says, "hey, she's got the right to look however she wants, and people shouldn't tell people how other people should look." First: true; and no one is limiting her rights in criticizing her. Second: ironically, as far as it's the case that Phair's publicists etc. made decisions for her, the second phrase above applies to them, not to Phair. Good thing we're not talking about music - that *really* stirs up opinions, and questions about who's got the right to say what. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::sex, drugs, revolt, Eskimos, atheism:: np: Orange Humble Band...I forget the title. Currently, "Spindizzy" - which (is/is not/I have no right to say whether it is) a Big Star knockoff - - or is a knockoff of the first Teenage Fanclub record? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:02:39 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More Liz Phair (ns) At 09:38 AM 7/30/2003 -0700, G. Andrew Hamlin wrote: >Wondering what Miles has against IMAX, too... Huh? My point was that I'm not going to Opry Mills for anything, and that has nothing to do with IMAX. I think IMAX isn't as spectacular as people make it out to be (Disneyworld's Magic Carpet Ride did better 30 years ago), but I'm neither for or against it. It just so happened that one of the two places that the latest MATRIX is still showing is there, that's all. As for Opry Mills (a.k.a. "Shoppryland") and my beef with it, it's a long story, but basically at the end of 1997, the Gaylord Entertainment Company destroyed their fine and profitable theme park, Opryland, because they thought they could make even more money year-round with a giant mall in the same space. This decision probably has enhanced the bottom line at Gaylord, but it was a disaster for Nashville's tourism industry -- tourism fell more than 20% in 1998 and has yet to recover to its 1997 levels. The "collateral damage" was also immense, as dozens of local businesses that depended on traffic from tourism went under, especially in the Music Valley Drive area adjacent to the park, but also Downtown, since Opryland's "river taxies" shuttled tourists back and forth between Downtown and the park. Opryland was the engine that drove the Nashville tourism industry; Opry Mills is just another big ol' mall. Plus Opryland had a certain "public service" role in the Nashville community, as half of its business came from Middle Tennessee, local folks looking to have a fun family outing, so losing Opryland also left a void in the community's psyche. [I fully expect some "why would anyone want to go to a theme park? Wouldn't the kids be better off sitting by the fireplace scratching out addition problems on their slates?" sort of rhetoric, but realistically, a lot of people find theme parks to be a fun thing to do every now and then, and instead of their time and money being spent here in town, their only viable options are now 3-5 hours away. I don't see this as a good thing.] Anyway, if I must go to a mall or a movie theatre connected to a mall, I'm damn sure not going to go to the one that has anything to do with tacitly endorsing the Gaylord Company's decision or further lining their pockets. As one TENNESSEAN letter-writer observed, Gaylord bought all these very "Nashville"/country-music associated properties (Opryland, The Nashville Network, music labels and publishing companies, WSM-AM), and has tried its best to destroy all of them, making you wonder why they wanted them in the first place. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:25:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More Liz Phair (ns) On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Dana Paoli wrote: > I thought Rod Stewart was supposed to be the best "old guy" to compare > to Liz. Artistically legit singer goes crazy-mainstream in an effort to > keep sleeping with youngsters? I'm not an expert, though, so open to > correction. That seems to work pretty well, I suppose. Certainly, the early promise of Rod's talent has been rather unfulfilled since, what, 1980 or so? He had a good run in the '70s though. And then there's guys like Steven Tyler...talk about ridiculous-looking! (And no, I don't mean the things he can't do anything about, like that mouth.) Or the whole hair-metal brigade in the '80s. 'Course now, we're getting into fashion-era differences - a whole other question. It's maybe a more interesting question to name musicians who've aged well - - musically, for certain, but in appearance and style as well. Any nominees for the Dorian Gray award? (hmm...maybe a different name...) Oh yeah - I'm just reminded of something that freaked me out last week. I was, how you say, in a mall - and there was some kids' store or something, and there was a young baby (less than a year old), and as I walked past, he happened to look in my direction, and...Julian H. Cope on a flaming bicycle, he looked like Mark E. Smith. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey - speaking of which, the forthcoming Fall album sounds pretty fine to me J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::flag on the moon...how'd it get there?:: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:29:26 -0400 From: "Aaron Milenski" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More Liz Phair (ns) >It's maybe a more interesting question to name musicians who've aged well >- musically, for certain, but in appearance and style as well. Any >nominees for the Dorian Gray award? (hmm...maybe a different name...) Richard Thompson? I can't say he's ever done anything I'd consider a sellout, and he still looks like...himself. Scott Miller??? I expect Stewart to soon mention how Judy Collins sheds more clothes on her album covers as she gets older. Cant' say I like any music she's done since the 60s though... _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:31:27 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More Liz Phair (ns) In a message dated 7/30/03 9:58:31 AM, outdoorminer@mindspring.com writes: << [I fully expect some "why would anyone want to go to a theme park? Wouldn't the kids be better off sitting by the fireplace scratching out addition problems on their slates?" sort of rhetoric, but realistically, a lot of people find theme parks to be a fun thing to do every now and then, and instead of their time and money being spent here in town, their only viable options are now 3-5 hours away. I don't see this as a good thing.] >> The one time I went to Opryland, I walked past Roy Acuff playing on a corner with a bunch of Opryland employees. This certainly made Opryland seem like a very unique theme park. You won't see Johnny Depp swashbuckling over by the Pirates of the Caribbean ride. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:46:30 -0400 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] More Liz Phair (ns)...well agers |-----Original Message----- |From: Aaron Milenski [mailto:amilenski@hotmail.com] |Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 2:29 PM |To: loud-fans@smoe.org |Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More Liz Phair (ns) | | |>It's maybe a more interesting question to name musicians who've aged |>well |>- musically, for certain, but in appearance and style as well. Any |>nominees for the Dorian Gray award? (hmm...maybe a different name...) | |Richard Thompson? I can't say he's ever done anything I'd consider |a sellout, and he still looks like...himself. Scott Miller??? These come to mind for me: Robyn Hitchcock Warren Zevon (least last time I saw him) Steve Wynn Tom Verlaine (when I recently saw Television he hardly looked any different than 20 years ago) Larry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:54:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More Liz Phair (ns) On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > It's maybe a more interesting question to name musicians who've aged > well - musically, for certain, but in appearance and style as well. Any > nominees for the Dorian Gray award? (hmm...maybe a different name...) The Wire guys look better than ever, I think. > --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey - speaking of which, the forthcoming Fall > album sounds pretty fine to me Hm. This leaked version -- the one they're not releasing -- sounds like it combines the best aspects of The Marshall Suite with the worst of Are You Are Missing Winner, with the latter mostly winning the battle for control of the sound. Will be interesting to see what changes are made. a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:56:32 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More Liz Phair (ns) At 01:02 PM 7/30/2003 -0500, Miles Goosens wrote: >Opryland was the engine that drove the Nashville tourism >industry; Opry Mills is just another big ol' mall. Speaking as someone whose fondness for shopping malls rivals Joan Didion's, the thing about Opry Mills is that it's not even a particularly good mall. Sure, it's all big 'n' stuff, and there are both some interesting focal points (one of Gibson's combo factory/stores is there) and a few good stores (when we were there over Christmas, I got some rather wonderful Hawaiian shirts at the Hilo Hawaii), but the layout is terrible, it's not particularly well-designed (it *is* possible for a shopping mall to be aesthetically interesting, such as that big mall on the Riverwalk in San Antonio) and I thought the merchandise mix seemed a bit off. I'll grant them points for having a Dickey's Barbecue in the food court, though: now that I'm not flying through D/FW four to six times a year, I'm not getting enough potato salad in my diet. However, if you want pure entertainment in Nashville, wander around the Opryland Hotel at Christmastime, preferably in the company of people who share a fondness for utterly over the top decoration. There's stuff in there that'll simply take your breath away. S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:02:31 -0400 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: [loud-fans] I sold (out) more than you Is there a site online where you can query album/CD sales of individual artists by release? And with that in mind what was the top selling Scott Miller release? IBC? Larry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:09:55 -0400 From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] yet more phair > Good thing we're not talking about music - that *really* stirs up > opinions, and questions about who's got the right to say what. As you might be able to tell from what I said, I thought we *were* talking about the music. Guess I jumped in too quickly. - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:29:36 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More Liz Phair (ns) At 02:56 PM 7/30/2003 -0400, Stewart Mason wrote: >At 01:02 PM 7/30/2003 -0500, Miles Goosens wrote: >>Opryland was the engine that drove the Nashville tourism >>industry; Opry Mills is just another big ol' mall. > >Speaking as someone whose fondness for shopping malls rivals Joan Didion's, >the thing about Opry Mills is that it's not even a particularly good mall. I'll take your word on that. I hope never to enter the thing. >However, if you want pure entertainment in Nashville, wander around the >Opryland Hotel at Christmastime, preferably in the company of people who >share a fondness for utterly over the top decoration. There's stuff in >there that'll simply take your breath away. It's certainly the Capitol Building of American Gauche. Many, many people (including relatives of mine and Melissa's) think of it as an example of *good* decoration. Did you see the harp player who looks more like a Librace wax figure than an actual living human being? So where else did you go in Nashville? later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:42:40 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More Liz Phair (ns) At 02:29 PM 7/30/2003 -0500, Miles Goosens wrote: >>However, if you want pure entertainment in Nashville, wander around the >>Opryland Hotel at Christmastime, preferably in the company of people who >>share a fondness for utterly over the top decoration. There's stuff in >>there that'll simply take your breath away. > >It's certainly the Capitol Building of American Gauche. Many, many people >(including relatives of mine and Melissa's) think of it as an example of >*good* decoration. Did you see the harp player who looks more like a Librace >wax figure than an actual living human being? No, but we were enamored of the animals dressed up in Sgt. Pepper uniforms and playing band instruments...at least until I saw the poor bunny rabbit who was close enough to the walkway that you could see that the drumsticks had been attached to his wrists with very large sheet metal screws, which kinda spoiled the charm. >So where else did you go in Nashville? That was the full extent of the trip. Run over from my sister-in-law's house in Knoxville, rescue my best friend from the clutches of her family in White House, do the mall and the hotel, drive back to Knoxville that night. S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:52:38 -0400 From: "Stefaan Hurts" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] More Liz Phair (ns) On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:25:51 -0500 (CDT), "Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey" said: > Oh yeah - I'm just reminded of something that freaked me out last > week. I was, how you say, in a mall - and there was some kids' store > or something, and there was a young baby (less than a year old), and > as I walked past, he happened to look in my direction, and...Julian > H. Cope on a flaming bicycle, he looked like Mark E. Smith. Are you sure it wasn't just another spoilt Victorian child? - -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Does exactly what it says on the tin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:44:18 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] I sold (out) more than you On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Larry Tucker wrote: > Is there a site online where you can query album/CD sales of individual > artists by release? And with that in mind what was the top selling Scott > Miller release? IBC? I think it's 2 Steps for GT, PBRT or TTOOL for LF. Acronymically, Joe Mallon jmmallon@joescafe.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:34:37 -0400 From: Dave Walker Subject: [loud-fans] Rolling Stone RSS feeds (mostly for Dana) Start your aggregators. Jann Wenner's creaky old fossil now has a set of RSS feeds: http://davenet.userland.com/2003/07/30/rollingStoneSupportsRss20 -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:35:08 -0400 From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: [loud-fans] axemen, kills (ns) Allmusic failed me. Can anyone tell me anything about the Axemen? Specifically, "Three Virgins" on Flying Nun. Looked like it might be great, and when Holy Cow lowered its price to $3.95 I bit. Doesn't seem like it's great on first listen, but it's kind of incoherent, which means I'll have to pay extra attention in order to figure out if it's bad bad or good bad. From the other room, it's actually sounding like old Royal Trux right now, which is...something. Also, anyone else liking the Kills album? I was sort of predisposed to be uninterested in a M/F duo with a one word band name, but parts of it, esp. "Cat Claw" are continuing to impress me after several months. I keep hearing that VV is really cute, but you can never tell in any of the band photos. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:05:18 -0700 (PDT) From: michael@zwirn.com Subject: [loud-fans] signing off for a week or two Have a vacation in the sweltering desert Southwest so I will sign off for a couple weeks. Talk to you all later! Michael Michael J. Zwirn http://www.zwirn.com Home: 503/232-8919 Cell: 503/887-9800 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 00:21:20 EDT From: OptionsR@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] well-agers (ns) In a message dated 07/30/2003 11:27:08 AM US Mountain Standard Time, jenor@uwm.edu writes: > It's maybe a more interesting question to name musicians who've aged well > - musically, for certain, but in appearance and style as well. Any > nominees for the Dorian Gray award? (hmm...maybe a different name...) > The most obvious example I can think of is Emmylou Harris, especially from "Wrecking Ball" onwards. Sorta more off-center musically, apparently much less interested in commercial appeal than she used to be, and physically...well, Rrrrrrowwwllllrr! (Conan O'Brien-esque growl sound). I'd be inclined to say the same goes for Lucinda Williams, as well. I'd agree on Steve Wynn and Richard Thompson, but I'd disagree about Robyn Hitchcock. Not only have memorable songs on his solo records been fewer and farther between recently, but he also seems to have developed a facial expression that conveys the feeling of perpetual boredom. At least, that's how I thought he looked at an instore he did a few months ago. He's starting to look like Paul McCartney did ten years ago, and look how Macca is now...Andy Partridge recently quipped in a recent issue of Mojo: "Funny how you never see Paul McCartney and Angela Lansbury in the same place at the same time." Words to that effect, at least. And whoever it was on this list that pointed out a while ago about Peter Gabriel's unfortunate resmeblance to Alexei Sayle was spot on, unfortunately. I just got a DVD of Alexandro Jodorowsky's "Fando & Lis", and one of the extra features is a 1995 French TV documentary on Joroowsky. There's a clip of Peter Gabriel (not looking like the missing Balowski brother) talking about how "El Topo" influenced "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway." On one hand, I can sort of see how it did. On the other hand, neither one still makes much sense. Have a wonderful day in a one-way world, Mike Bollman ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V3 #223 *******************************