From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V3 #214 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Wednesday, July 23 2003 Volume 03 : Number 214 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Plugz away/labels [Jenny Grover ] [loud-fans] Star Wars Kid (ns) ["Pete O." ] Re: [loud-fans] Phair to Middlin' [Dan Sallitt ] Re: [loud-fans] Phair to Middlin' [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] Phair to Middlin' [Janet Ingraham Dwyer ] [loud-fans] cash brothers never never [Miles Goosens ] Re: [loud-fans] Plugz away/labels [Aaron Mandel ] [loud-fans] Rich Creamy Paint (and it's not about TRADING SPACES or CHANGING ROOMS) [Miles Goosens ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 04:24:21 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Plugz away/labels OptionsR@aol.com wrote: >So, who delivers these days that I may not be thinking >of? > > Rekords Rekords? Of course, much of their small catalogue is Josh's Man's Ruin projects, and I haven't heard every band on the label. But I know what you mean about the old labels, and I miss that, too. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:50:13 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] guided by that loser liz, no doubt (ns) On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > Edgar Allan Poe stories. Then again, if she played with Robert Quine that'd > be cool. heck, if we get a record as good as "new york" somewhere down the line i'd be pleased. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:55:49 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Plugz away/labels On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 OptionsR@aol.com wrote: > actually sell in quantity. So, who delivers these days that I may not be thinking > of? mr. lady dischord exotic fever ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 05:04:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "Pete O." Subject: [loud-fans] Star Wars Kid (ns) Just saw this story on the news... http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1058926309556_18// ... and found the 38(!!!) videos here... http://www.jedimaster.net/swk_videos.htm It doesn't say how he rates the new Liz Phair. ===== ====== This space intentionally non-blank. ====== ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:01:41 -0400 From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Phair to Middlin' > So, uh, a failed commercial bid isn't a commercial bid at all? I'm suggesting that she wasn't trying to make a Britney-Christina album. Listening to the record (as opposed to looking at the photos), you get the feeling that the most receptive audience should be the indie rock types, and the 12-to-14-year-old girls who are going to become indie rock types. This even though she seemed to know that she was going to alienate the indie people. But they're the inscribed audience anyway. I do perceive a kind of split in the record: if you release the five co-writes (Matrix and Gary Clark) on an EP, and the solo-written nine songs on a short album, the EP and the album would seem to be targeting different audiences. I'm not enough of a pop maven to know who would flock to the EP. I'm guessing it's still too quirky for the kids, but maybe they can handle more quirk than I realize. The downloadable EP clearly sequesters songs that are less lyrically direct than the songs on the album. Evidence that she didn't want to show her most intricate side this time out. And yet, to my mind, that downloadable EP is aimed more or less at the same listeners as the imaginary nine-song short album. If you shoved them together into a 14-song release, I don't think anyone would think that release had a split personality, though of course that can't be tested. > As for the third: the "package deal" referred to the necessity of image in > considering her current, wannabe popstar mode - not for all of her music. My point is that I don't think her mode has changed all that much, certainly not in a digital yes/no sense. > But if you're saying, less > literally, that Phair's approach to sexuality (visually and otherwise) has > always seemed "an almost child-like desire to dress up" etc., and that > ignoring that is more productive to you than paying attention to it...well, > okay - but you'd definitely be in a minority. Nearly every review of _Exile_ > (and most of _Whip-Smart_) mentions sexuality in some context, whether > praising or condemning the records. I'm not advising you to ignore the sexuality in the songs. I do happen to think that sex is just a part of the Liz mosaic, and that it's a distortion to think of her primarily as a blow-job queen. But certainly that's in there. As for her not-in-the-grooves, extra-musical behavior (which is what I was referring to with the "child-like desire" reference - I don't find that peculiarity in her actual work): I dunno, I can be as postmodern as the next fellow, bring it in as evidence if it's useful. But I don't think it's helping y'all get to the interesting stuff about this record. If you try all approaches and can't make yourself like it, then it's probably best just to say, "The record is bad," rather than cite all the ancillary material. - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:13:09 -0500 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Phair to Middlin' Quoting Dan Sallitt : > I'm not advising you to ignore the sexuality in the songs. I do happen > to think that sex is just a part of the Liz mosaic, and that it's a > distortion to think of her primarily as a blow-job queen. It certainly would be - and that certainly wasn't what I meant in suggesting that sexuality is a part of what makes Liz Phair Liz Phair. If anyone not falling asleep because they're not interested in yet more Liz Phair debate is still reading, I'm actually more curious about the other, but related, issue this one's raised: so is this list uncomfortable for or clueless about women generally? If it is, in what ways? I think it's interesting that the two people who've suggested so are men, while the one person directly addressing the question who's largely disagreed is a woman. Some anecdotal evidence: the list is approximately 175-200 people, or at least was at its peak, right? I can think, off the top of my head, of ten people who've become part of heterosexual couples and have met on this list - - 5% or more of the total list population. (I don't know if any lesbian couples have met onlist.) That doesn't exactly suggest a hostile environment for women (though it certainly doesn't rule it out either). ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: I suspect that the first dictator of this country will be called "Coach" :: --William Gass ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:40:58 -0400 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Plugz away/labels On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 11:47 PM, OptionsR@aol.com wrote: > Anyone else > find themselves noticing the same thing? Perhaps it's due to the > economy of > the biz, with labels unfortunately having to concentrate on artists > that > actually sell in quantity. So, who delivers these days that I may not > be thinking > of? I'm finding that Merck and Temporary Residence Ltd. are both batting about 1.000 for me, but yeah, I know what you mean. Labels that were pretty much sure things for me over the past few years (Kranky, Thrill Jockey, Fat Cat, Chain Reaction) have greatly cut back their release schedules, too. -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:06:24 -0400 From: Janet Ingraham Dwyer Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Phair to Middlin' At 09:13 AM 7/23/2003 -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > I'm actually more curious about the other, >but related, issue this one's raised: so is this list uncomfortable for or >clueless about women generally? If it is, in what ways? I think it's >interesting that the two people who've suggested so are men, while the one >person directly addressing the question who's largely disagreed is a woman. >Some anecdotal evidence: the list is approximately 175-200 people, or at >least was at its peak, right? I can think, off the top of my head, of ten >people who've become part of heterosexual couples and have met on this list >- 5% or more of the total list population. (I don't know if any lesbian >couples have met onlist.) That doesn't exactly suggest a hostile environment >for women (though it certainly doesn't rule it out either). I can't recall ever thinking that loud-fans was a hostile environment for women generally, and I've been here, oh heavens, nearly 9 years minus a not-hostility-induced unsub period for most of 2001. I've met a lot of terrific men here and a handful of awesome women, and as one who's always had an easier time making friends with boys, I've been quite comfy with the gender ratio (which I doubt has changed much through all the comings and goings, and fluctuations of total subscriptions, on loud-fans). Various people have made various asinine comments over the years, but when there's been a sense of group hostility, it's been directed toward the needy or the uncooly-eccentric regardless of gender. And we sure have experienced hatefulness, with quite a few people chased away, notoriously, or silently slipping off in disgust over the years. Not at all unusual for an online community. I know my memory is faulty, but I'm pretty sure I recall correctly that I've always received great support, encouragement and affection here, both as an individual and, tacitly, as a woman. For what that's worth, Janet ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:16:53 -0400 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Plugz away/labels (Emusic) On the topic of labels worth exploring, I'm enjoying most of what I've downloaded from the newly added Audio Dregs label on Emusic. I don't know if it would hold much appeal for anyone besides myself and perhaps Tim Walters and maybe Aaron Mandel, but the Carpet Musics album (ambient popsongs, kinda) is truly fantastic and the E-Rock isn't bad either. -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:21:22 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: [loud-fans] Who's heard the Cash Brothers album? We saw these Toronto-based brothers open for Richard Thompson last night, and despite a tendency towards plodding midtempos, I quite liked them. They have that kind of whiney vocal quality that I enjoy. Problem is, the AMG review of their first album compares it to the Jayhawks and Wilco, bands I really like, but I'm not sure I would enjoy these guys as much if they're overloaded with big busy arrangements. The two voices and two guitars (usually one acoustic and one electric) presentation suits them too well. Thompson, of course, was phenomenal, although this being my first gig, I can't compare it to anything but bootlegs. The current band is simply outstanding, especially Pete Zorn, who not only had a couple of wind showcases (a great flute part on "Missy How You Let Me Down" and a sopranino sax part on "Al Bowlly's In Heaven") but actually managed to upstage the man himself by playing The Most Kick-Ass Mandolin Solo Ever on "Shoot Out the Lights." I was also impressed by the rearrangements that gave what used to be accordion and organ parts to his saxophones. Earl Harvin, the drummer, is possibly the best drummer Thompson has ever worked with, but all night there was a small sound-mix problem whenever Rory McFarlane was playing Fender bass, where the drums were set at "Small Club Indie Band" and the bass was set at "Cruise Ship Supper Club Jazz Trio" and you just couldn't hear him at all. He was fine on both fretless electric and stand-up acoustic, though. Only real problem was that the Berklee Performance Center is basically just my high school auditorium on steroids, so the seats were just amazingly uncomfortable. S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:34:43 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: [loud-fans] Phairplay Me, then Jenny: >>>But hey, I'm just paying >>>the bill and trying to put food on my family. >>This is my favorite quote of the week so far! Okay, so it's only Tuesday... Erm, it was clear that I was using an approprated Bushism there, right? Except for the "pay the bill" part, that was a genuine Broome-ism.. Andrew: >>All I'll say for now is, Patti Smith has that famous poster where >>she's wearing a Keith t-shirt, and you can't tell the difference >>between the two. I don't see people lining up to tackle her. Yes, but she's much more vocal about her boner for Brian Jones. Always easier to keep your cred by worshipping the guy who didn't live long enough to start sucking. I thought the Stooges thing was more or less a one-off... Re: the whole damned Liz Phair thing: it's actually played out much as I might've expected it to. Much hue and cry amongst her old fans and not a blip on the radar of the wider pop audience she allegedly sought. The thing is that the artists she cites as her models are essentially created based on demographic research and whatnot (arguable, I guess, but why bother). If you were gonna create a fluffy pop star from the ground up, you wouldn't create Liz Phair, for innumerable reasons... her indie baggage, or in fact the existence of any previous well-known works looming large among them. (Remember how the Alanis people went out of their way to cover up her early teeny-bopper records? Same thing in reverse.) But the marketing department wouldn't try to invent a sexxxeee pop star of her age, either, nor one with her voice, nor one with a penchant for putting songs about her kid on the same record as songs about some guy creaming in her hair (and I gotta admit, as a parent and a songwriter, that juxtoposition does squick me out a bit). So the whole thing was just a dumb idea, as far as I can see. As for the parallel "sellout" cases you guys have listed, they're interesting, but nothing quite fits. What you basically have here is someone who's been a moderate seller with no big top 10 his, but also artistically appreciated as a songwriter and performer throughout, what, a 12-year career, suddenly trying to emulate a flavor-of-the-month with a shelf-life guaranteed to be less than that of her own early work (if Phair's career survives this, the question in ten year's time will be "She was trying to sound like April-La-Who?"). So to parallel that, you'd have to imagine that, say, Elvis Costello had announced, in 1989, that he was going to try to sound more like (best case scenario) George Michael, or (more apt parallel) Rick Astley. Or Siouxsie Sioux going for "that red-hot Martika sound". Heads would be scratched, and hits would not be had. Just heard "Little Digger" again this morning on NPR and it still sucks out the ying-yang. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:52:21 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [loud-fans] cash brothers never never Haven't heard the Cash Brothers, but... At 02:21 PM 7/23/2003 -0400, Stewart Mason wrote: >Thompson, of course, was phenomenal, although this being my first gig, I >can't compare it to anything but bootlegs. The current band is simply >outstanding, especially Pete Zorn, who not only had a couple of wind >showcases (a great flute part on "Missy How You Let Me Down" and a >sopranino sax part on "Al Bowlly's In Heaven") but actually managed to >upstage the man himself by playing The Most Kick-Ass Mandolin Solo Ever on >"Shoot Out the Lights." Man, I'm turning into the jaded Internet show-going/bootleg-consuming connoisseur here, but Zorn's been doing that mandolin solo since at least the '99 tour, so for us Thompson show vets, it's become a predictable setpiece. Not that the solo isn't good or anything, but you can set your watch by it, and it's about time for the band to do something else. Now, if it was the first time you've seen it and you didn't know it was coming -- as apparently was the case for you -- yeah, it's pretty cool. I haven't seen RT with the band this year or heard a show from 2003, but it sounds like Thompson is determined to showcase Zorn on DARING ADVENTURES material, and I'm wondering if I'd find those wind parts on "Missie How You Let Me Down" and "Al Bowlly" as intrusive as I found that damnable bass flute solo on "Jennie" (possibly my favorite RT song) on the '99 tour. I'm thinking the sax on "Al Bowlly" would work really well given its big band reminiscing, but I'm not so sure about the flute on "Missie"... I'm glad you had a great time at the show, though! An RT live show is not to be missed! >Earl >Harvin, the drummer, is possibly the best drummer Thompson has ever worked >with, That's good news. I was very fond of Mike Jerome, who joined the band in '99, so if Harvin tops him, he's got to be a Gil-like drum god! later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:02:32 -0400 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] cash brothers never never |-----Original Message----- |From: Miles Goosens [mailto:outdoorminer@mindspring.com] | |At 02:21 PM 7/23/2003 -0400, Stewart Mason wrote: |>Thompson, of course, was phenomenal, although this being my |first gig, |>I can't compare it to anything but bootlegs. The current band is |>simply outstanding, especially Pete Zorn, who not only had a |couple of |>wind showcases (a great flute part on "Missy How You Let Me |Down" and a |>sopranino sax part on "Al Bowlly's In Heaven") but actually |managed to |>upstage the man himself by playing The Most Kick-Ass Mandolin |Solo Ever |>on "Shoot Out the Lights." | |Man, I'm turning into the jaded Internet |show-going/bootleg-consuming connoisseur here, but Zorn's been |doing that mandolin solo since at least the '99 tour, so for |us Thompson show vets, it's become a predictable setpiece. |Not that the solo isn't good or anything, but you can set your |watch by it, and it's about time for the band to do something |else. Now, if it was the first time you've seen it and you |didn't know it was coming -- as apparently was the case for |you -- yeah, it's pretty cool. | |I haven't seen RT with the band this year or heard a show from |2003, but it sounds like Thompson is determined to showcase |Zorn on DARING ADVENTURES material, and I'm wondering if I'd |find those wind parts on "Missie How You Let Me Down" and "Al |Bowlly" as intrusive as I found that damnable bass flute solo |on "Jennie" (possibly my favorite RT song) on the '99 tour. |I'm thinking the sax on "Al Bowlly" would work really well |given its big band reminiscing, but I'm not so sure about the |flute on "Missie"... As much as I like Richard Thompson's albums, he's much better live, particularly when you think of his studio output for the past decade. Love listening to his droll between song patter. I would just love to see Richard playing with Clive Gregson and Christine McCollister again though. One of the best shows I ever saw with Richard was with them in the band. Incidently Miles, the show was in Knoxville. Larry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:04:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Mitton Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Who's heard the Cash Brothers album? I was pretty sure I'd heard them before, and I'm guessing a few other people on this list have, too. Google tells me they toured with Sarah Harmer in 2001, and I saw them in Portland. I don't remember too much about them, except that I liked them quite a bit. Then a couple came in while Harmer was setting up and they asked me about the opening band. They wanted a reference point, so I said, "Do you know the Jayhawks?" and she replied, "Do I know the Jayhawks?! Good friends with [I forget which one] since grade school!" Is Harmer ever going to release another album? - --Michael On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Stewart Mason wrote: > We saw these Toronto-based brothers open for Richard Thompson last night, > and despite a tendency towards plodding midtempos, I quite liked them. > They have that kind of whiney vocal quality that I enjoy. Problem is, the > AMG review of their first album compares it to the Jayhawks and Wilco, > bands I really like, but I'm not sure I would enjoy these guys as much if > they're overloaded with big busy arrangements. The two voices and two > guitars (usually one acoustic and one electric) presentation suits them too > well. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:15:02 -0700 From: John Cooper Subject: [loud-fans] Swapelicious July 2003 Loud-Fans Mix For the summer swap, Jenny Grover sent me a CD-R of the following tracks: The Mod Fun I Am With You Ambulance Primitive (The Way I Treat You) Dada I Get High The Dandy Warhols Drive The Last She Don't Know I'm Here (Single Version) Heatmiser Idler Sianspheric Audiphone Fred Drake Icicle David Poe The Drifter Kent Lifesavers Mark Lanegan Field Song Mark Lanegan Low Queens of the Stoneage Regular John Pearl Jam Cropduster Vertebrats Left in the Dark Wondermints Shine On Lilys The Water Bad Religion New Leaf The Only Ones City of Fun Pomegranate Peace of Mind Despite the mix of styles, everything hangs together quite well, maybe because of the musical straightforwardness the songs all share. I appreciated the spirit of fun in a lot of them--the Shadows of Knight thing the Vertebrats have going on comes particularly to mind. Thanks, Jenny, for the music! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:18:02 -0500 From: Wes_Vokes@eFunds.Com Subject: [loud-fans] Cash Brothers Never Never Haven't heard it yet, but here is what Miles of Music says about their new one: THE CASH BROTHERS - A Brand New Night (DUE 8/12/2003) This is smart roots-pop from brothers Andrew and Peter Cash, presented with the tightest of harmonies, lush acoustic and electric guitar blends, lazy low-key melancholia and shimmering production. Self-produced, Brand New Light turns on with a fuller rock sound than previous and emits an alluring and punchy tone, supporting their beautifully written down-beat material. Like the Pernice Brothers meshed with the Everly Brothers, these sibs craft great pop that is lightly flavored with country twang, like the Traveling Wilbury-esque "You're It". They step out of form slightly for some edgy funk-flavored rock on "Give Me Your Hips", but then drop back into the dreamy paced "Feel Another Way". And given the distinction of sound and the quality of the songs, it's clear there is only one way to feel about the Cash Brothers, and that is moved. (Zoe) Wes (Bummed that he had to miss Richard Thompson when he came around these parts last month... By the way, new "official bootleg" of the 2003 tour soon for sale at the RT website) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:22:00 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] cash brothers never never At 01:52 PM 7/23/2003 -0500, Miles Goosens wrote: >Man, I'm turning into the jaded Internet show-going/bootleg-consuming >connoisseur here, but Zorn's been doing that mandolin solo since at >least the '99 tour, so for us Thompson show vets, it's become a predictable >setpiece. Not that the solo isn't good or anything, but you can set your >watch by it, and it's about time for the band to do something else. Now, >if it was the first time you've seen it and you didn't know it was coming >-- as apparently was the case for you -- yeah, it's pretty cool. Could be that he keeps doing it because it works. >I haven't seen RT with the band this year or heard a show from 2003, but >it sounds like Thompson is determined to showcase Zorn on DARING ADVENTURES >material, and I'm wondering if I'd find those wind parts on "Missie How You >Let Me Down" and "Al Bowlly" as intrusive as I found that damnable bass flute >solo on "Jennie" (possibly my favorite RT song) on the '99 tour. I'm thinking >the sax on "Al Bowlly" would work really well given its big band reminiscing, >but I'm not so sure about the flute on "Missie"... As I recall, the flute part is about two bars long and shows up maybe three times, if that. It's almost non-existent, but it's just the right touch. The sopranino -- which basically sounds so much like a clarinet that he might as well have been playing one -- was basically a Benny Goodman homage, and so therefore it fit perfectly in "Al Bowlly." (Another bit that's probably common on this tour but was nonetheless amusing: as soon as RT mentioned World War II in the song introduction, people knew exactly what he was about to play and whooped in anticipation. "Fans of World War II, are we?" he asked.) Actually, Zorn's best reed performance of the night was on the third song: the baritone sax part absolutely makes "Pearly Jim." >>Earl >>Harvin, the drummer, is possibly the best drummer Thompson has ever worked >>with, > >That's good news. I was very fond of Mike Jerome, who joined the band in >'99, so if Harvin tops him, he's got to be a Gil-like drum god! I was a bit annoyed by him on the opening "Tear-Stained Letter," largely because of the aforementioned problem of not being able to hear the Fender bass at all for the entire night but also because the sound mix was definitely fucked up on that song, but once the sound guys smoothed everything out, he was remarkable. Absolutely dead-tight, for one thing -- I didn't notice a single dropped beat all night -- but he's also got an impressive mix of finesse (the shifts in and out of that martial snare part in "Gethsemane" were just flawless -- better than Jerome does them on the album, actually) and power, and he's got that rare and impressive ability to be a flashy player without adding annoying and intrusive little figures into everything. There was a familair-looking black hat on the top of the form that was showing off the tour t-shirts when we left. I was mildly disappointed to realize when I got closer that, no, Kangol has not come out with a special Richard Thompson edition (which they should do just from all the hats he's worn from them over the last twenty years). However, we were amused by the THE OLD KIT BAG kit bags. S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:01:41 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] cash brothers never never At 03:22 PM 7/23/2003 -0400, Stewart Mason wrote: >At 01:52 PM 7/23/2003 -0500, Miles Goosens wrote: >>Man, I'm turning into the jaded Internet show-going/bootleg-consuming >>connoisseur here, but Zorn's been doing that mandolin solo since at >>least the '99 tour, so for us Thompson show vets, it's become a predictable >>setpiece. Not that the solo isn't good or anything, but you can set your >>watch by it, and it's about time for the band to do something else. Now, >>if it was the first time you've seen it and you didn't know it was coming >>-- as apparently was the case for you -- yeah, it's pretty cool. > >Could be that he keeps doing it because it works. I think a lot of its appeal is the shock value -- that initial feeling of "holy crap, it's a loud, wailing *mandolin* solo!!!", and Zorn embraces the moment with the appropriate stagey gonzo zest! But I can tell you in '99, when instead of waiting five years between Nashville RT gigs, we only had to wait three days, the mandolin solo wasn't nearly as interesting at the second show, and felt a little forced on a second viewing. And I freely admit that my position is that of the spoiled person who reads setlists, hears bootlegs, and takes advantage of the resources of the Internet. It does change your perception, and not always for the better. If I'm not actively involved in an artist's list, I usually try to avoid spoilers before shows, unless they're general ones I stumble across, in large part to keep the element of surprise alive for me. (Ex: Wednesday before last, I did know that X would be playing only stuff from the first four albums, because I read a local interview with John Doe beforehand. However, I did *not* know which songs, thank goodness.) Of course, then there's the Internet Asshole variety of the Internet Fan species, who, when he sees an show by an artist with a fairly rigid setlist, delights in yelling out the title of the *next* song to prove his superior knowledge and to taunt the artist. This is a totally godawful thing to do to the performer and your fellow concert-goer, even if you are convinced that the setlist could use a little shaking up. It's happened at RT shows, though it seems to be happening less often these days, thank goodness. >> I'm >thinking >>the sax on "Al Bowlly" would work really well given its big band >reminiscing, >>but I'm not so sure about the flute on "Missie"... > >As I recall, the flute part is about two bars long and shows up maybe three >times, if that. It's almost non-existent, but it's just the right touch. >The sopranino -- which basically sounds so much like a clarinet that he >might as well have been playing one -- was basically a Benny Goodman >homage, and so therefore it fit perfectly in "Al Bowlly." OK, both of those things sound very appropriate! The "Jennie" bass flute solo in '99 seemed longer than "In-a-Gadda-da-Vida." In general, I *am* a Zorn fan, and think that as a supporting cast member, he adds a lot of tasty stuff to the arrangements and general sound. > (Another bit >that's probably common on this tour but was nonetheless amusing: as soon as >RT mentioned World War II in the song introduction, people knew exactly >what he was about to play and whooped in anticipation. "Fans of World War >II, are we?" he asked.) There's some things that RT seems to say every night, but he can be deadly with the improv wit too. As Larry said, he's incredibly funny. Incidentally, Larry, the first time I saw RT live was when Clive and Christine were still in the band -- it was when I was in London in '87, and I rode the tube to the end of the line and then walked for 45 minutes to get to the Mean Fiddler to see RT. Wonderful show. I've found a tape of a similar Mean Fiddler show in '86, but I've never come across a recording of the '87 one that I saw. Wes mentioned the forthcoming "official bootleg." All of them are worth getting, especially TWO LETTER WORDS (the Loud-Fans of Scrabble will recognize the title reference). later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:22:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "G. Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Plugz away/labels >> So, who delivers these days that I may not >> be thinking of? I just ordered up a mess of stuff from Fat Possum, and I find them fairly reliable, if perhaps not a sound, generally, that a lot of other people here get into. Hard to go wrong with Norton. Boptart, here in Seattle, looks promising--The Lights, Dame Darcy, The Turn-ons. Far as I know, the Stooges are planning a tour and some stuff on Iggy's next one... Andy Storm star cancels spanking bet with radio host By ELIZABETH M. GILLESPIE, Associated Press Writer July 21, 2003 SEATTLE (AP) -- Seattle Storm standout Sue Bird canceled a wager with a sports radio talk show host who proposed to spank her on his program if she lost the bet. Bird apologized to fans Monday, saying in a team statement that she made the bet ``as a good-natured way to draw the radio talent and listeners to Storm games.'' After realizing the bet had offended some people, Bird decided to call it off. The wager, made earlier in the season, hinged on whether Bird's assist-to-turnover ratio would turn out higher than 2-1 at the end of the season. As the bet stood, Bird would have had to cry, ``Harder, Daddy, harder'' during the spanking if she lost. If Bird won the bet, program host Mitch Levy would buy season tickets to Storm games next year. ``She did it in fun and she did it with the best of intentions,'' said Bird's agent, Jimmy Gould. ``She's terribly upset about it. She regrets it. She hopes people understand.'' Gould said Bird ``learned a good lesson,'' and wants to take responsibility for her mistake. ``She didn't stop to think about the impact she has on younger people and that she's expected to be more clear and thoughtful when making a statement like that, even though it was done in fun,'' he said. Bird was on pace to win the wager. She's the WNBA's top playmaker with 137 assists and 63 turnovers in 20 games. The bet drew criticism, including a comment from state Sen. Jeanne Kohl-Welles, who teaches women's studies at the University of Washington. ``It helps feed into the images of violence against women and stereotyping,'' Kohl-Welles told The Seattle Times. ``I don't condemn her. I appreciate that she doesn't have the experience in life that other women have had. ``But this could be very hurtful, not just to the WNBA, but to other women and girls.'' Bird addressed that in her statement. ``As genuine as my intentions were, I realize the negative effect that this bet has had and would like to apologize,'' she said. Storm vice president Karen Bryant supported Bird's decision. ``The Storm is focused on maintaining its role as a positive group of female role models, specifically a team of talented and strong athletes,'' Bryant said. The Storm and other WNBA teams have had difficulty getting men age 18-35 to come to games since the league was founded in 1997. That's the demographic Bird said she was considering when she agreed to the bet. ``He symbolizes that guy the league is trying to attract,'' Bird said of Levy. ``He's talking to that guy every morning. I believe that if I can get him in a seat to attend a game, then maybe his opinion will change and he'll talk about it on the air.'' Efforts to reach Levy or executives at KJR-AM by telephone were not successful Monday evening. Bird is one of the high-profile women's basketball players in the country. She was a key performer on Connecticut's NCAA championship teams of 2000 and 2002 and its Final Four team in 2001. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:41:36 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Plugz away/labels At 11:47 PM 7/22/2003 EDT, OptionsR@aol.com wrote: >Other than >Bloodshot and Southern Lord, I can't think of any current reliable purveyors >of The Kind Of Crap I Want to Hear. Anyone else >find themselves noticing the same thing? Perhaps it's due to the economy of >the biz, with labels unfortunately having to concentrate on artists that >actually sell in quantity. So, who delivers these days that I may not be thinking >of? I can think of at least a dozen, probably more, albums that I've really liked on the Hidden Agenda label (Club 8 and affiliated artists, the Soundtrack of Our Lives, Green Pajamas and affiliated artists, etc.) over the last couple of years. Of the other Paraasol-affiliated labels, both Parasol and Rainbow Quartz are capable of doing the kind of indie-by-numbers that puts me to sleep (Mark Bacino, Jack and the Beanstalk, The Contrast, The Grip Weeds) along with the stuff I really like (Doleful Lions, June and the Exit Wounds, Asteroid #4, The High Dials), and the Mud label never does much of anything I like. I don't think I've ever heard a Hidden Agenda record that's been less than pleasant, though. And there's a fairly new label called Dirtnap that's done quite a few things I like in a kind of retro-New Wave bag, including that Epoxies EP that I raved about a few months ago and the debut album by the Exploding Hearts, that band that was unfortunately killed in a van accident last week. S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:52:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Plugz away/labels On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Stewart Mason wrote: > And there's a fairly new label called Dirtnap that's done quite a few > things I like in a kind of retro-New Wave bag, including that Epoxies EP > that I raved about a few months ago and the debut album by the Exploding > Hearts, that band that was unfortunately killed in a van accident last > week. And the new album by The Kent 3, who don't quite have the zest or the paranoia to pull it off but who sound like they want to be The Embarrassment. (Available on eMusic, natch.) Though I was disappointed by the Epoxies, and iffy on the Exploding Hearts, those three bands are just different enough from each other, and all promising enough, that I'm tempted to grab all the Dirtnap stuff and see if anything hits just right. a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:09:52 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [loud-fans] Rich Creamy Paint (and it's not about TRADING SPACES or CHANGING ROOMS) Julianne and Steve H. will be glad to know that a new album from Rich Creamy Paint will be out soon. They're opening for Ben Folds and the Stewart-loathed Fleming and John (RCP's Rich Painter is the nephew of John Painter of F&J) at tonight's Nashville Uptown Mix show, and the RCP website says that the new CD may be for sale at the show. Given my disdain for Folds and the hassles of attending the Uptown Mix (changing out of business attire, hurrying over, paying the newly implemented $5 admission, grabbing food on the run or overpriced inside the concert grounds, seas of yapping trendoids as the show takes place at the literal intersection of Music Row and Vanderbilt), I probably won't be there, but I'll hope for a full indoor set from RCP later this year. Janet may want to know that their next show is August 1 in Columbus. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:42:03 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Phair to Middlin' Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >If anyone not falling asleep because they're not interested in yet more Liz >Phair debate is still reading, I'm actually more curious about the other, >but related, issue this one's raised: so is this list uncomfortable for or >clueless about women generally? If it is, in what ways? > ...yawn... huh? what? oh!... I wouldn't say it's generally uncomfortable for women. I'm not sure you guys are particularly more clueless than most guys, and you're less clueless than some. I have been surprised by some of the stuffy, old fashioned viewpoints expressed here, and some of what is said I'm not sure if it's meant seriously because it sounds a bit patronizing. But I figure when those things happen, it's probably you guys just stumbling around in, you know, Guyville. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:54:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Gil Ray Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Phair to Middlin' - --- Jenny Grover wrote: But I figure > when those things > happen, it's probably you guys just stumbling around > in, you know, Guyville. > > Jen Jen, you're my warrior princess. : ) Gil __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V3 #214 *******************************