From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V3 #211 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Tuesday, July 22 2003 Volume 03 : Number 211 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] In defense of Liz Phair (from a woman's point of view) ["] [loud-fans] Phair to Middlin' ["Rex.Broome" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] In defense of Liz Phair (from a woman's point of view) > Why do I know the phrase "The aroma of Gina Arnold"? Seriously. Did it > come up here. A song? What, 'cause I know I didn't make it up. http://entertainment.msn.com/album/?album=263705 I'm lead to understand that while the GUYVILLE front-cover portrait may be Liz herself, the inside pics are a model she found, and paid, who just happens to look a lot like her. Of course, my source for this information is a decade-old article and I can remember neither writer nor publication, and the writer's source of information may have been Liz herself, and we know her, don't we? Sort of like trying to decide between the two Ripper letters, Andy "They had but one last remaining night together, so they embraced each other as tightly as that two-flavor entwined string cheese that is orange and yellowish-white, the orange probably being a bland Cheddar and the white ... Mozzarella, although it could possibly be Provolone or just plain American, as it really doesn't taste distinctly dissimilar from the orange, yet they would have you believe it does by coloring it differently." - --Mariann Simms, winner of the Bulwer-Lytton Worst Writing Award, from www.bulwer-lytton.com (courtesy Jer Fairall) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:13:26 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: [loud-fans] Phair to Middlin' Joe: >> Funny, I don't remember a huge outcry when Kristen Hersh became a >>mom, or Kim Gordon... Well, Hersh was a mom before almost anyone had heard of her. I can remember a time when her simplified rep was that all of her songs were about postpartem depression. Guess the journalists needed something to explain those early TM records... >>I can't think of a male artist who's changed to a younger image (outside of >>minor rock acts who got sent to a stylist) Isn't Bowie recording with the Matrix now? He's, um, older than Liz Phair. And he's done similar things before. I've really only heard a live-on-radio set from Liz Phair V2.0. It contained a lot of her old tunes, which still sounded pretty good. And a couple of new ones, including "Little Digger", which did not. Rubbed me all kinds of wrong ways. - -Rex, second attempt at first post... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:18:53 -0400 From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] In defense of Liz Phair (from a woman's point of view) > I thought Arnold's review was pretty much a load too, but I will say one > thing: I don't think this album is anywhere near as bad as a lot of people > are claiming. But then, I really liked WHIP-SMART too, the other album > that everyone's fond of dumping on, so what do I know. I like the new album too. After working it pretty hard and going back and forth a few times, I've come out thinking that the Matrix-produced songs are generally not sticking with me that well. (These songs are also co-written by the Matrix, who get the first three songwriter credits, with Liz's credit bringing up the rear. Does anyone know who did what? Both music and lyrics show signs of non-Liz influence, though the lyrics definitely have some Liz in them.) "Rock Me" is the only one of the Matrix songs that I consider among the best on the album. I guess this is not the line that most of the album's defenders (Christgau, Sharples) are taking. Interestingly, there's a non-Matrix co-write - "Red Light Fever," track #2 - whose lyrics contain no trace of Liz-ness, to my mind. Whereas all the Matrix songs have Liz-ish lyrics that are inflected toward uncomplicated teen-talk - sometimes to the songs' detriment, but not always. The fact that it's so easy to spot Liz-essence in any turn of phrase is a clue that she shouldn't be dismissed, I think. I can't think of more than a few other people whose personalities are so big that rock 'n' roll fits inside of them instead of vice versa. Dylan and Reed come to mind. This isn't necessarily an indicator of value, but it does make her formidable. Remove all the co-writes, and you have nine songs not that far removed from WHITECHOCOLATESPACEEGG, at least musically. I find these songs mostly pretty exciting, varied and exploratory. "It's Sweet" is probably my favorite - I love the contrast between that squeaky sitar-like guitar and that pulsing bass-thing in the intro, and the chorus comes in so smoothly. ("Little Digger," a nice song, is actually not one of my favorites - there's a little too little going on musically.) "Firewalker" is fascinating - almost a GUYVILLE outtake, but weirdly naked in its un-rock-like positivity. I'm always moved by the chorus, the sincerity of which verges on clumsiness: "Like Joy/Like Joy," thrown way up into a high register to signal that the childlike concept will not be elaborated. "Take a Look" hangs on a nicely worked out metaphor (Liz is absolutely not slacking off and writing careless lyrics - the development of motifs is if anything too careful), and "My Bionic Eyes" is an exciting semi-kitschy pop song that the Matrix seems not to have gotten near. Though I wish the Matrix hadn't come aboard, it seems quite obvious that Liz has always been a pop songwriter, that GUYVILLE is what it is because of the pop sensibility under the continuity of mood, that WHIP-SMART and WHITECHOCOLATESPACEEGG have already pushed pretty far into pop territory. I think that she's an inspired, inventive inventor of pop melody and structure, and that all four albums are important even when they're uneven. The EP sounds quite good (thanks Larry!), especially "Jeremy Engel," which is terrific. I don't think it's that much different from the LP - a bit less accessible, perhaps. - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 01:13:06 EDT From: OptionsR@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] In defense of Liz Phair (from a woman's point of view) In a message dated 07/21/2003 4:58:26 PM US Mountain Standard Time, dana-boy@juno.com writes: > Why do I know the phrase "The aroma of Gina Arnold"? Seriously. Did it > come up here. A song? What, 'cause I know I didn't make it up. > That's a "tune" by Truman's Water, innit? I think it was on "Smash Spasm XXOOXX Whatever It Was". My two cents: If Liz' latest resembled something like, say, Sheryl Crow's new one, I could understand her efforts at a career make-over/commercial sell-out (delete where applicable). It would probably make some kind of sense musically if played after "whitechocolatespaceegg", and would also have enough commerical polish on it that maybe it would have expanded her audience rather than trading in one crowd for another. What is so annoying to some of us who did like her first few records is that we were led to believe that she had a bit more of a sense of humor and intelligence than she seems to be displaying now. Do I have to bring up the whole PiL analogy again? "Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?" Yeah, Johnny, you hardly even know the half of it... It's bad because (what was believed to be) her personality is lost in something that is contrary to what made her charming and interesting in the first place. Rather than sounding like herself, she sounds like someone who is attempting to be another person's idea of who Liz Phair is - in short, a bad imitation of herself. If the record does tank, I'm expecting her to go, "I meant to do that", and attempt to reconnect with her old fan base with a record that will be as bad as (if not worse than) the new Metallica album (the only intelligent review I've seen of that has been in "The Onion"). I don't know how many Loudfans dig Metallica, but as far as all of these journalists who have been praising "St. Anger" go, how anyone can fail to find their clumsy "we're still dead hard, we are" posturing embarrassing is beyond me. To paraphrase something Sid Vicious ( ! ) said about Elvis Presley, they forgot who they were so everyone had to tell them. Trouble is, these people who told Metallica (a.k.a. "Selloutica") who they were happened to be idiots. The same fate awaits Liz, I fear. I don't know how long it'll take her to reach that point, but I'm pretty sure it will happen. See? It's not a "girl" thing, after all. It's a "suck" thing. On a tangentially-related note, anyone else notice how Bad Religion have excised all references to their 2nd album "Into The Unknown" from their discographies and biographies? For those of you who may have missed it, it was when BR were on their TSOL Emulation Trip, and "Into The Unknown" was their "Beneath The Shadows". Adding keyboards and psychedelic touches worked nicely for a bunch of drama-queens like TSOL, but in Bad Religion's hands...phew, wotta stinker! It was hastily consigned to the dustbin of Bad Career Moves, and only Those Of Us Who Were There remember the laughter now. God, The Plugz were a great band, weren't they? I just thought I'd mention them. Achin' to break your heart, Mike Bollman ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V3 #211 *******************************