From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V3 #193 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Thursday, July 3 2003 Volume 03 : Number 193 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Interesting [AWeiss4338@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Interesting [dana-boy@juno.com] Re: [loud-fans] new fun car game for moi (ns) [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] god forgive me, it's another post about Liz Phair [Aaron] Re: [loud-fans] Interesting [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] new fun car game for moi (ns) [Roger Winston ] Re: [loud-fans] Interesting [Dave Walker ] Re: [loud-fans] Interesting [JRT456@aol.com] [loud-fans] new tris mccall pop music abstract (fwd) ["Joseph M. Mallon" ] Re: [loud-fans] Interesting ["G. Andrew Hamlin" ] Re: [loud-fans] Of possible Loud-Fan interest (Liz Phair content) [Option] Re: [loud-fans] Of possible Loud-Fan interest (now w/U2 content) [Miles G] [loud-fans] New Tris yadda yadda (ns) [Dana Paoli ] Re: [loud-fans] New Tris yadda yadda (ns) ["jer fairall" ] Re: [loud-fans] New Tris yadda yadda (ns) [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: [loud-fans] Interesting [JRT456@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Interesting [Miles Goosens ] [loud-fans] Liz at the gym (ns) [dana-boy@juno.com] Re: [loud-fans] Liz at the gym (ns) [Dan Sallitt "matter-of-factory"? "keybs"?? Now I know why I quit reading music > critics for so many years. > LOL that's the Voice for you. I think it's dumb myself. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:03:55 -0400 From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interesting My favorite review thus far has also been the shortest, from TMFTML: Liz Phair Liz Phair (Buy It!) (Capitol) Dude, your mom is creeping me out. (I'm still trying to decide if the "Buy It!" link makes it better or worse). One thread in all the Phair reviews that's starting to seem annoying: the idea that indie fans (is there such a thing anymore?) are opposed to and scandalized by big production, major labels, sell-out moves, etc. Does anyone think there's much validity to that at this point? Maybe there is...I haven't taken a poll...but that seems to me to be more of a late '80's/early '90's attitude. - --dana ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:59:06 -0500 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] new fun car game for moi (ns) Quoting Roger Winston : > It's called "Guess the title of the song from the first 8 characters". > My > new car stereo (which has a front panel aux input for my future iPod > purchase) plays MP3 files off of CD-R/CD-RW discs. When it goes to a new > > track, it displays the title of the song. However, there is only enough > > room for the first 8 characters, so it has to scroll the rest. It sits > on > the first 8 for a few seconds before starting the scrolling. I've found > > it's a really fun driving activity to guess what the name of the song is > > going to be from those first 8 characters - almost as fun as speeding and > > watching for cops in the rear view mirror. 8 characters isn't quite enough to perform the obvious joke - you know, the first 8 characters of titles like "Is That an Oncoming Truck?" "I Didn't Notice that the Lights Had Changed," "Child Chasing Ball from Between Parked Cars," etc. But hey - nearly hit a car yesterday because they assumed a four-way stop when it was only a two-way stop (i.e., I didn't have a stop-sign). You think that, instead of marking four-way stops (in which, if you assume the other side doesn't have a stop sign, you're okay), they'd mark two-way stops (in which, that assumption may cause you to be sideswiped). > In other driving news, I got a photo radar ticket in the mail today for > *supposedly* going 53 in a 35 zone. The Man is out to get me, I tell > you. Anarchy Now! Remember, Big Brother is watching. And I bet Rob > Poor > is helping The Man with his wireless networked sensors. Is it one of those Point-A-to-Point-B-in-X-Minutes things? Tell 'em, hey, you can't *prove* I haven't invented a car teleportation device, or that I took a shortcut through a wormhole in the space-time continuum. These explanations will be especially impressive if you wear a tinfoil hat to court. Or, you should have immediately reported your car stolen: "Yep, last saw it...oh, twenty minutes before this ticket was issued. Oh wait - there it is - - in my garage!" Jeff Ceci n'est pas une .sig ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:02:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] god forgive me, it's another post about Liz Phair On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, Stewart Mason wrote: > I think you are: the album came out last Tuesday, and the sales figures for > last week won't be released until late tomorrow afternoon. Ha! I'm used to movie charts, I guess. a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:07:05 -0500 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interesting Quoting dana-boy@juno.com: One thread in all the Phair reviews that's starting to seem > annoying: the idea that indie fans (is there such a thing anymore?) are > opposed to and scandalized by big production, major labels, sell-out > moves, etc. Does anyone think there's much validity to that at this > point? There is if the music sucks. I'm annoyed by the phrase "sell-out" as too often used by critics: it seems to mean, "they changed their style to something I don't like" w/o regard for whether the style at hand is likely to sell out. Did R.E.M. sell out in making _Out of Time_? Oh yeah - the charts were just full of mandolin-led, string-laden pop songs when they recorded it... ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: As long as I don't sleep, he decided, I won't shave. :: That must mean...as soon as I fall asleep, I'll start shaving! :: --Thomas Pynchon, _Vineland_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 07:17:08 -0600 From: Roger Winston Subject: Re: [loud-fans] new fun car game for moi (ns) At Wednesday 7/2/2003 07:59 AM -0500, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >Is it one of those Point-A-to-Point-B-in-X-Minutes things? Tell 'em, hey, >you can't *prove* I haven't invented a car teleportation device, or that I >took a shortcut through a wormhole in the space-time continuum. These >explanations will be especially impressive if you wear a tinfoil hat to court. I have no idea how the photo radar works, but you could be right. The "location of offense" listed a 4 block range. I would certainly use the excuses you suggest (and many more, like "I was driving to visit my sick father in the hospital before visiting hours ended", which was actually true), but I find it much easier to waive my right to a court appearance and fill in my Visa or MasterCard card info on the Pay By Mail coupon. Though I'm upset they don't take Discover. >Or, you should have immediately reported your car stolen: "Yep, last saw >it...oh, twenty minutes before this ticket was issued. Oh wait - there it is >- in my garage!" Supposedly one of the points of photo radar is that they can prove it's you because they have the... you know... photo. Although the driver of my car in the photo on the Notice of Violation they sent me is so dark, it could be anyone from Liz Phair to John Goodman. The license plate is very clear though. Latre. --Rog ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:58:32 -0400 From: "jer fairall" Subject: [loud-fans] Of possible Loud-Fan interest (Liz Phair content) This weeks Onion AV Club includes both an interview with Jon Brion and a negative review of LIZ PHAIR. http://www.theonionavclub.com/index.php Jer np: Admiral Twin, CREATURES OF BREAD & WINE Help the planet each day! It's free and easy: http://www.Care2.com/dailyaction/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 12:21:48 -0400 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interesting At 08:03 AM 7/2/2003 -0400, dana-boy@juno.com wrote: >One thread in all the Phair reviews that's starting to seem >annoying: the idea that indie fans (is there such a thing anymore?) are >opposed to and scandalized by big production, major labels, sell-out >moves, etc. Does anyone think there's much validity to that at this >point? Maybe there is...I haven't taken a poll...but that seems to me >to be more of a late '80's/early '90's attitude. Lord knows I've seen plenty of people who seem genuinely outraged by the "chart pop sellout" aspect of this album. Interestingly, these are many of the same people who often talk about their undying love for such DIY indie trailblazers as Billy Joel, Queen and Elton John. S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:34:47 -0400 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interesting On Wednesday, July 2, 2003, at 09:07 AM, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > I'm annoyed by the phrase "sell-out" as too often used by critics: it > seems > to mean, "they changed their style to something I don't like" w/o > regard for > whether the style at hand is likely to sell out. Did R.E.M. sell out in > making _Out of Time_? Oh yeah - the charts were just full of > mandolin-led, > string-laden pop songs when they recorded it... Potentially contentious amateur sociology warning: I wish I could remember who it was who noted this, but the idea of a musical "sell-out" is very much a White, upper-middle class thing. Amongst, for example, Black musicians recording from the very beginning of the rock era until the present day, there is little shame about making it big financially via your music. In contrast, it's something to celebrate (hence, bling bling.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:23:47 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interesting In a message dated 7/2/03 9:35:58 AM, dwalker@freeke.org writes: << Amongst, for example, Black musicians recording from the very beginning of the rock era until the present day, there is little shame about making it big financially via your music. In contrast, it's something to celebrate (hence, bling bling.) >> My first thought is to simply note that Nina Simone would've disagreed. However, it seems like we're redefining sell-out. It's not a complaint about financial success. It's a complaint about financial success (or an attempt at financial success) while ditching one's integrity and personal vision. That said, a lot of my favorite albums have been sell-outs, including many by established acts who took a shot at psychedelica during the late '60s. And don't forget bands like The Vapors, who bombed while selling out by becoming a fiercely political act (and, in the process, made a great album). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:49:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joseph M. Mallon" Subject: [loud-fans] new tris mccall pop music abstract (fwd) Tris dissects radio for your amusement. Best of many good lines, re T.A.t.u.: The most damning evidence that our culture has completely lost its compass: we ignored teenage Russian lesbians. Are we insane? What a staggering pack of ingrates we are. Is our embargo on all Euro signifiers so stringent that we can't get down with this effective piece of shameless exploitation? Has Howard Stern taught us nothing? Joe Mallon jmmallon@joescafe.com - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 10:00:43 -0400 From: Tris McCall To: generica@hotmail.com Subject: new tris mccall pop music abstract the wartime edition of tris mccall pop music abstract is online. fifty-four paragraphs about fifty-nine radio singles: http://www.trismccall.net/pop_music_abstract_0703.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:54:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "G. Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interesting > I'm annoyed by the phrase "sell-out" as too often used by critics: it > seems to mean, "they changed their style to something I don't like" w/o > regard for whether the style at hand is likely to sell out. Did R.E.M. > sell out in making _Out of Time_? Oh yeah - the charts were just full of > mandolin-led, string-laden pop songs when they recorded it... A quote from Greil Marcus, the first time I saw him, seems apt. Asked if the not-yet-released IN UTERO might be a sell-out, he replied in part, "Lots of people would *love* to sell out. They can't! They don't have anything that anyone would want to *buy!*" Oh, and why haven't we discussed reel-to-reel tapes yet? Freshly unemployed, Andy "I enjoyed the arrangement it was extremely good musicianship and was beautiful sounding" - --written in blue ball-point on the inner sleeve of my copy of SZOBEl, by Hermann Szobel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:59:35 EDT From: OptionsR@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Of possible Loud-Fan interest (Liz Phair content) In a message dated 07/02/2003 8:59:00 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cryptosicko@care2.com writes: > This weeks Onion AV Club includes both an > interview with Jon Brion and a negative review > of LIZ PHAIR. > It also has the only halfway intelligent review I've seen of the waste of resources that is the new Metallica album. About the only thing less appealing than a blatant sell-out on the behalf of a band/artist who should know better is a band/artist that decides to "get back to the roots" after blatantly selling out, only to find that they apparently had no clue what made them interesting in the first place. I guess we'll find out soon enough if that's the case with Liz Phair, too. Re: Andrea's comment on The Village Voice reviews, saying they liked it (the new Liz record): Christgau (who is a dolt, even if he does like The Mekons) liked it, but the other two reviews didn't seem very complimentary to me. The new Steve Wynn album "Static Transmission" is awesome, and the first batch comes with a bonus disc with 8 extra songs. Probably my fave record of the year so far. Not only is this the last show of the tour, but it's the last show we'll ever do, Mike Bollman ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 13:24:24 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Of possible Loud-Fan interest (now w/U2 content) At 01:59 PM 7/2/2003 -0400, OptionsR@aol.com wrote: >It also has the only halfway intelligent review I've seen of the waste of >resources that is the new Metallica album. About the only thing less appealing >than a blatant sell-out on the behalf of a band/artist who should know >better is >a band/artist that decides to "get back to the roots" after blatantly selling >out, only to find that they apparently had no clue what made them interesting >in the first place. I'd almost apply that last statement to U2's ALL THAT YOU CAN'T LEAVE BEHIND (also an awful, awful album title), 'cept that I didn't really regard the explorations from their cover of "Night and Day" through POP as blatant sell-outs, and when they went all-out for the neo-industrial/dance/Bowie-'n'-Eno-in-Berlin weirdness, those records sounded great. So to me, the "back to basics" move was not only predictable but depressing. Couple that with the song selection on the recent 1990-2000 "best of," which avoided almost every interesting song (even the ones that were bona fide hits) in favor of the ones that sounded the most like "basic" U2 ("One," "Mysterious Ways," "Gone," "Staring at the Sun," "The Hands That Built America"), and you have what amounts to a de facto disavowal of everything I liked about them in the '90s. On the other hand, the new Liz Phair record sounds mostly to me like a Liz Phair record. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 18:19:13 GMT From: Dana Paoli Subject: [loud-fans] New Tris yadda yadda (ns) The most damning evidence that our culture has completely lost its compass: we ignored teenage Russian lesbians. Are we insane? What a staggering pack of ingrates we are. Is our embargo on all Euro signifiers so stringent that we can't get down with this effective piece of shameless exploitation? Has Howard Stern taught us nothing? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe Tris ought to read loud-fans more often. http://www.escribe.com/music/loudfans/m33774.html - --dana ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:32:22 -0400 From: "jer fairall" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] New Tris yadda yadda (ns) > we ignored teenage Russian lesbians. We did? For an unappreciated band, I sure sold a lot of copies of their album at my store. They have also managed to make Trevor Horn cool again, apparently. According to the latest EW, he's in demand again, working with everyone from Seal to Belle and Sebastian. Jer, who doesn't mind "All The Things She Said" and would certainly take it over "Sk8er Boi," "Miss Independent" or "Hey Baby" Help the planet each day! It's free and easy: http://www.Care2.com/dailyaction/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:39:28 -0400 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: [loud-fans] loudfans in cigarette world So just how many are planning to show up for the Let's Active tribute release show in Winston-Salem Saturday July 19th? I'm pretty excited 'cause this'll be the most loudfans I've ever seen at one time. I know we have these folks: Doug Mayo-Wells (performing with King Kilowatt) Grahame Davies (performing with The Crowd Scene) Roger Winston Miles Goosens ana morales (I'm fairly certain of) Chris Murtland (same as above) Any others? http://www.heydaydesigns.com/letz/news.html Larry n.p. Minibar - Fly Below the Radar ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:40:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interesting On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 JRT456@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/2/03 9:35:58 AM, dwalker@freeke.org writes: > > << Amongst, for example, Black musicians recording from the very beginning of > the rock era until the present day, there is little shame about making it big > financially via your music. In contrast, it's something to celebrate (hence, > bling bling.) >> > > My first thought is to simply note that Nina Simone would've disagreed. As would Charlie Parker, Thelonious Monk, etc. etc. (although probably not Miles Davis...). That said, it is true there's likely a different dynamic around "selling out" from someone like Liz Phair, who probably never lived in a house without a swimming pool until she went to college, and someone who grew up dreaming of having enough nothing to put together half a nothing sandwich. And given the racialization of income levels in this country, along w/other cultural factors, and it's likely Dave's correct in some respects. > However, it seems like we're redefining sell-out. It's not a complaint about > financial success. It's a complaint about financial success (or an attempt at > financial success) while ditching one's integrity and personal vision. Exactly. Of course, one has to have integrity and personal vision in the first place... I'm sure some indie hipsters reflexively equate success (or being on a major label, or not saying "fuck" on every track, or being recorded by equipment not purchased at Radio Shack) as a "sellout" - and of course will also claim to hate everything by a band except its first few, seven-inchers released on the bassist's Duck Fart Records...but that's not news. So there are indie snobs. It's still the case that an artist *can* dump any vestige of integrity etc., aim at a currently commercially popular style that's pretty distant from what they've done, and therefore be pretty accurately branded "sellouts" (even though it's possible they might produce a good record while doing so), whether or not that applies to Liz Phair. Re Stewart's comments: I almost think that at this point, being into Elton John or Queen or whoever is sort of like sixties-era hippies eccentrically deciding to hire a foxtrot orchestra: it's the sheer pastness of the style that appeals. That doesn't work completely, though: both Elton John and Queen are a lot closer musically to a lot of contemporary recordings (even including those that aren't aping them directly) than foxtrots were to hippie jams. Still, the distance in time is in their favor...as is the contrarian appeal of being so hip you're into the blatantly unhip. All I can say is, again, why would I be inclined to check out a recording that dives headlong into a style that has no appeal to me? Oh, and re those _Voice_ reviews: "keybs" is bad enough, but whichever writer so obviously thought s/he was being clever by writing "married, and mared" really ought to be hauled out back and soundly whipped. Unless they're into that sort of thing, in which case they should be hauled out back and soundly not whipped. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::I feel that all movies should have things that happen in them:: __TV's Frank__ np: Superconductor _Hit Songs for Girls_ and I don't know why ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:44:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] New Tris yadda yadda (ns) On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, jer fairall wrote: > > we ignored teenage Russian lesbians. > > We did? For an unappreciated band, I sure sold > a lot of copies of their album at my store. > They have also managed to make Trevor Horn cool > again, apparently. According to the latest EW, > he's in demand again, working with everyone > from Seal to Belle and Sebastian. Dude, yer *Canadian*! Doesn't count, you know... But Trevor Horn, with Belle and Sebastian?!? That's an enormous WTF... - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::a squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous...got me? __Captain Beefheart__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 13:57:18 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] loudfans in cigarette world At 02:39 PM 7/2/2003 -0400, Larry Tucker wrote: >So just how many are planning to show up for the Let's Active tribute >release show in Winston-Salem Saturday July 19th? I'm pretty excited >'cause this'll be the most loudfans I've ever seen at one time. > >I know we have these folks: >Doug Mayo-Wells (performing with King Kilowatt) >Grahame Davies (performing with The Crowd Scene) >Roger Winston >Miles Goosens >ana morales (I'm fairly certain of) >Chris Murtland (same as above) > >Any others? That dashing young lawyer from Brooklyn is still going to drum for the Crowd Scene at this show, no? And Amy Lewis! >http://www.heydaydesigns.com/letz/news.html This doesn't seem to work, at least here and now. I never smoked nothin', Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:54:40 -0400 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] New Tris yadda yadda (ns) On Wednesday, July 2, 2003, at 02:44 PM, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > But Trevor Horn, with Belle and Sebastian?!? That's an enormous WTF... Well, it reminds me of one of the earliest quotes I'd ever read about Trevor Horn. ABC's Martin Fry was being interviewed, and someone asked him (paraphrasing, as I read this almost 20 years ago) what they'd learned by working with him. Fry said something to the effect that Horn made them realize that whatever sound they were looking for was never more than a phone call away. He had no hesitation, if a song callled for a full string section, to get on the phone and arrange for one to show up at the studio the next day. -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:01:01 -0400 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: RE: [loud-fans] loudfans in cigarette world |-----Original Message----- |From: Miles Goosens [mailto:outdoorminer@mindspring.com] |Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 2:57 PM |To: quercian rosicrucian psychobabble |Subject: Re: [loud-fans] loudfans in cigarette world | | | |That dashing young lawyer from Brooklyn is still going to drum |for the Crowd Scene at this show, no? And Amy Lewis! | | >http://www.heydaydesigns.com/letz/news.html | |This doesn't seem to work, at least here and now. Oh, you're right Miles. I just talked with the fellow. Everything's being moved to another server. May be back up later today. Larry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:08:18 -0700 (PDT) From: "Tim Walters" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] New Tris yadda yadda (ns) Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > But Trevor Horn, with Belle and Sebastian?!? That's an enormous WTF... I can't remember where I got this, but I saved it a couple of months ago... - ---- Belle and Sebastian Team Up With Trevor Horn The Scottish Indie Group will start recording their forthcoming album next week. Trevor will be producing the entire cd. It is due the next summer and will be released on the label Rough Trade. On their website, Belle and Sebastian described how they came to the conviction that Trevor should be their new producer. When he first visited them, he explained that he never used tape, and instead would always record directly into the computer. Of course the band, being a 'good' indie band was shocked! But then Trevor Horn said the following - quote from Stuart's diary at the Belle and Sebastian site: 'Think of it like this' he said. 'We had an outside toilet when I was a boy. I used to like going outside to use the toilet. You get very used to it. But I wouldn't have an outside toilet now.' And after he said that there was a moment of thoughtfulness and then you could see some of the care lifting from various member's faces. Myself included. And I think that's when we all threw our lot in with him. - -- SLAW * SNAKES & LADDERS Experimental popular children's music for adults http://www.doubtfulpalace.com/artists/Slaw ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:11:35 -0400 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] new tris mccall pop music abstract (fwd) On Wednesday, July 2, 2003, at 01:49 PM, Joseph M. Mallon wrote: > Tris dissects radio for your amusement. Best of many good lines, re > T.A.t.u.: > > The most damning evidence that our culture has completely lost its > compass: we ignored teenage Russian lesbians. Are we insane? What a > staggering pack of ingrates we are. Is our embargo on all Euro > signifiers > so stringent that we can't get down with this effective piece of > shameless > exploitation? Has Howard Stern taught us nothing? Their MTV Music Awards performance, where they stormed the stage with 100 young women in school uniforms, stripping down to their underwear and kissing, was one of the most singularly awe-inspiring incidents of exploitation marketing I've ever seen. If they gave awards for sheer, perfect nerve, it would have been a shoo-in. -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:14:05 -0400 From: Dave Walker Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interesting On Wednesday, July 2, 2003, at 02:40 PM, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: > On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 JRT456@aol.com wrote: > >> My first thought is to simply note that Nina Simone would've >> disagreed. > > As would Charlie Parker, Thelonious Monk, etc. etc. (although probably > not Miles Davis...). Which I why I made sure to note that I was talking specifically about the rock era. Take a look at someone like Prince, who was arguably doing his most interesting work during the period when he was moving the most units. No one ever told him he'd betrayed himself because "1999" and "Purple Rain" were slicker than "For You." -d.w. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:35:51 EDT From: JRT456@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interesting In a message dated 7/2/03 11:15:41 AM, dwalker@freeke.org writes: << Which I why I made sure to note that I was talking specifically about the rock era. >> You're saying that Nina Simone wasn't of the rock era? She would disagree. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 14:51:41 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Interesting At 03:35 PM 7/2/2003 -0400, JRT456@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 7/2/03 11:15:41 AM, dwalker@freeke.org writes: > ><< Which I why I made sure to note that I was talking specifically >about the rock era. >> > >You're saying that Nina Simone wasn't of the rock era? She would disagree. What amazed me, as I think I said on Fegmaniax rather than here a couple of weeks before Nina Simone died, was that when I spent a lazy afternoon reading the Desert Island Disc lists on the website of BBC Radio's Desert Island Discs , the most commonly cited pop artist on these lists was Nina Simone. Basically, if you are a white western European celebrity (musician, politician, TV host, you name it) between the ages of 50 and 65, it doesn't matter if your other seven picks are all classical, bebop, or prog, you're a Nina Simone freak. I had no idea she was that ubiquitous, even among only a certain demographic. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 21:54:51 -0400 From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: [loud-fans] Liz at the gym (ns) I was at the gym tonight, where they were playing that mysterious top 40 station WGYM that seems to play at all health clubs in NY. Heard a song come on that sounded an awful lot like "Complicated" and realized about halfway through that it was Liz doing her song about not being able to breath. I hate to say it, but it sounded *very* at home, making me think that the new album may do just fine. "Rock Me All Night" sounds fine too, though the lyrics still seem creepy to me. Why didn't she just write a song about getting drunkenly groped by a marine?? Seems more dignified than cradle-robbing. Anyway, some albums sound dumb at home but appropriate in public, and this seems to be one of those. I wouldn't buy it, but I wouldn't bet against its success either. - --dana np: Guided by Voices "The Best of Jill Hives" which sounds almost like a return to form, IMHO. Wonder if the rest of the album is up to snuff. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:06:33 -0400 From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Liz at the gym (ns) > "Rock Me All Night" sounds fine too, though the lyrics still seem creepy > to me. Why didn't she just write a song about getting drunkenly groped > by a marine?? Seems more dignified than cradle-robbing. Liz isn't about being dignified! About the Village Voice reviews: I'd say that Jane Dark's as well as Christgau's are positive, and Joshua Clover's is negative but respectful. - Dan ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V3 #193 *******************************