From: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org (loud-fans-digest) To: loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Subject: loud-fans-digest V3 #182 Reply-To: loud-fans@smoe.org Sender: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-loud-fans-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk loud-fans-digest Monday, June 23 2003 Volume 03 : Number 182 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [loud-fans] Hi again/ Ten years of Guyville [AWeiss4338@aol.com] Re: [loud-fans] Hi again/ Ten years of Guyville [Bill Silvers ] Re: [loud-fans] Hi again/ Ten years of Guyville [Dan Sallitt ] [loud-fans] liz (ns) [dana-boy@juno.com] Re: [loud-fans] Hi again/ Ten years of Guyville [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffre] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 03:04:21 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hi again/ Ten years of Guyville In a message dated 6/22/2003 2:52:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, spin_jen@yahoo.com writes: > There's a small groundswell of people who'd say that > about _whitechocolatespaceegg_ as well. > She has said in past interviews (mostly during the > whitechocolatespaceegg era) that she just doesn't have > the time to "get stoned and write another Guyville". > I don't think that her 'pop star' turn is a big shock. > She has said in the past that she wanted big hits on > this record. Once she gets them, maybe the next record > will be her bitching about being a pop star. > Yes and i hear it on her list all the time. I have a boot of her latest, it's really not bad, although it does take some getting used to because it is so different. And i can't believe that her big ambition was to be a pop star. But I do now. I hope she isn't making a mistake, fame is not what it's cracked up to be, although i hope she makes enough money to, as she put it, 'live in California, raise my son properly, and not have to move back to Chicago to live with my folks." I loved WCSE, and feel that a lot of the songs on her newest really are an extention of that album, especially the Michael Penn tracks. Guyville was a great album, but she's far beyond that now, for better or worse. More from me about it at toneandgroove.com. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 02:16:38 -0500 From: Bill Silvers Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hi again/ Ten years of Guyville >At this point, I'm convinced that Exile In Guyville was an utter fluke, >and had very little to do with Liz Phair as an individual. I suspect >that if she hadn't recorded it, someone else would have: that it was >floating around in the zeitgeist and just happened to land in Chicago. Gosh, I'd thought that news of the upcoming 125 Records DVD would've been the inspiration for the most ridiculous post of the week. Liz still knows how to grab an audience, alright. b.s. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 09:26:18 -0400 From: Charity Stafford Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Boston poop At 10:36 PM 6/20/03 -0400, Stewart Mason wrote: >>Isn't there a bookstore someplace down there that specialized in mystery >>books? > >Kate's Mystery Books, 2211 Mass Ave, Cambridge, between Porter and Davis >Square. I've only been once, but frankly, I wasn't impressed. I'm partial >to the mystery selection at Avenue Victor Hugo on Newbury (above Johnson's >Paints about half a block up from the Virgin) -- it's much smaller, but I >tend to find what I'm looking for and the prices are much more reasonable. There's also Spenser's Mystery Bookstore on Newbury Street - it moved a few years back to an upstairs spot near the corner of Gloucester Street, I think - maybe Fairfield. Haven't been in a long while - it's amazing to me to walk my old stomping grounds and think how little I get to Newbury Street since I changed jobs. Unfortunately, while I have more work enjoyment and a stronger sense of mission working with the medical students, I have to admit that Boston Medical Center does NOT lie in a hot zone of Shopping the way Copy Cop did. Charity ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:47:32 -0400 From: Dan Sallitt Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hi again/ Ten years of Guyville > There's a small groundswell of people who'd say that > about _whitechocolatespaceegg_ as well. I'm starting to feel pretty lonely in thinking that all of Liz's albums have had extraordinary things on them that no one else is capable of doing. Even if one doesn't feel that way, doesn't the "fluke" theory have to account for the Girlysound tapes somehow? My impression is that Liz is a weird person, intelligent and articulate in interviews but strangely out of touch with her own narcissism and therefore unable to manage her persona with any skill. Other, shrewder artists might have been able to indulge their pleasure in dressing up like a 13-year-old prostitute and not have destroyed their critical rep. Her last band tour was painful for similar reasons: she wanted to put on a charade (probably to combat stage fright, in part) but lacked the ability to communicate any distance between herself and her rather remote act. Too bad she doesn't have the personality or the financial security to just sit in front of a microphone and stare at her guitar like Elliott Smith, because she seems to be missing the personality traits that would let her pull off the Madonna-Courtney Love shtick that she would probably like to emulate. (Speaking of which, what is Elliott Smith doing these days?) I'm sorry Liz needs money. I was pretty depressed by the single ("Why Can't I") that was on her web site, but the medley of the other songs that went up a little later sounded more promising. You can get the new album for $9.89 with no shipping charges at www.deepdiscountcd.com. - Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:49:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hi again/ Ten years of Guyville On Sun, 22 Jun 2003, Larry Kooper wrote: > Does anyone know of / have any plans to commemorate the tenth > anniversary of Exile In Guyville? I was thinking of condescending to my fans and trying vainly to recover lost youth. Anyone want to join me? I've already got one taker... That said, I remember hearing some prospective single from the Michael Penn version of the album about a year ago -- "Down" or something similar? - -- and it was kind of dull. I don't think it's impossible for Liz Phair to make a good top 40 record, I just think, from the sound of it, that she's figuring anything which pisses off critics actually makes a record better. In the case of the horrible glittery whooshing noise I heard on one snippet from her website, she might have been better off with the 4-track. a ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 12:32:50 -0400 From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hi again/ Ten years of Guyville I'm sorry Liz needs money. I was pretty depressed by the single ("Why Can't I") that was on her web site, but the medley of the other songs that went up a little later sounded more promising. You can get the new album for $9.89 with no shipping charges at www.deepdiscountcd.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW, her new album gets a rave review in NY's Daily News today. It's accompanied by a photo that makes her look about 22 years old. This in contrast with the NY Times review which labels the new album a strange disaster. Based on this slim evidence, it looks like her plan is working thus far. - --dana ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 13:01:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "G. Andrew Hamlin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hi again/ Ten years of Guyville Interesting essay by Robert Christgau on some of these subjects, albeit one album ago, here: http://robertchristgau.com/xg/rock/phair-98.php For anyone interested, I got TROUBLE NO MORE for my birthday and like it a lot--oh, and the possibly-complete works of Lyme and Cybelle (even the Warrenless stuff), now available on Warren's FIRST SESSIONS album, Andy "The shitload of money Phair scored when she signed her post-Guyville deal are all the shitloads she's liable to see for a while; the musical attractions here [on whitechocolatespaceegg] signify artistic advance only, with all commercial projections speculative." - --Robert Christgau, from the above-mentioned essay ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 17:55:34 -0400 From: "David Seldin" Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hi again/ Ten years of Guyville Yeah, I love "Whitechocolatespaceegg" almost as much as "Exile", too. I'm curious to see how I'll feel about the new one. I think I'll listen to it a few times before I decide. David - ----- Original Message ----- From: "G. Andrew Hamlin" To: Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hi again/ Ten years of Guyville > Interesting essay by Robert Christgau on some of these subjects, albeit > one album ago, here: > > http://robertchristgau.com/xg/rock/phair-98.php > > For anyone interested, I got TROUBLE NO MORE for my birthday and like it a > lot--oh, and the possibly-complete works of Lyme and Cybelle (even the > Warrenless stuff), now available on Warren's FIRST SESSIONS album, > > Andy > > > "The shitload of money Phair scored when she signed her post-Guyville deal > are all the shitloads she's liable to see for a while; the musical > attractions here [on whitechocolatespaceegg] signify artistic advance > only, with all commercial projections speculative." > > --Robert Christgau, from the above-mentioned essay ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 18:45:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Fleming Subject: [loud-fans] chattin' anyone?? irc.eskimo.com #loudfans Come on up! Phil F. NP... nothing yet. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 22:51:15 -0400 From: dana-boy@juno.com Subject: [loud-fans] liz (ns) I've been re-reading some of Liz Phair's old interviews, just to see if she still comes across as creepy as I used to think she did. Answer thus far, yes!! My favorite bit to date comes from her rant of an interview in Chickfactor in '93 where she reveals that she wants 14 year old boys on her rider (plus ca change!). Second favorite quote (I hope someone is clever enough to dig it up w/regards to the new album) "I have to make a fool of myself now. When I'm 34 it won't be charming anymore." All of which, ultimately, seems to validate her professed worship of Mick Jagger. BTW, for the person who thinks it's strange to say that "Exile" was probably floating around, waiting to be recorded, I hope you'll at least do me the small favor of checking the release dates for early Barbara Manning, Bikini Kill and Bratmobile and then explaining why it seems so silly. It seems fairly uncontroversial, at least to me, to suggest that an intelligent college kid with some time on her hands might succesfully synthesize a bunch of currents that were running through indie rock at the time, then never have anything else to say. Whether you think that that's what actually happened is, of course, another matter. - --dana ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:06:30 -0500 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [loud-fans] Hi again/ Ten years of Guyville Quoting Dan Sallitt : > > There's a small groundswell of people who'd say that > > about _whitechocolatespaceegg_ as well. Actually, reading Christgau's article (Andy's link: - and as usual, Xgau's half insightful, half annoying as fukc), I'm remembering that WCSE also had a handful of good tracks - but the problem is (esp. in retrospect) I don't like the slicker production on several of the tracks. Honestly, I haven't heard anything from the new one...but everything I've read or seen, particularly the hiring of au courant producers from unsympathetic genres, makes me back away less than slowly. > My impression is that Liz is a weird person, intelligent and articulate > in interviews but strangely out of touch with her own narcissism and > therefore unable to manage her persona with any skill. Other, shrewder > artists might have been able to indulge their pleasure in dressing up > like a 13-year-old prostitute and not have destroyed their critical rep. Makes sense... What's weird, too, about the recent photos is that she seems to be trying to look like everyone else, isntead of like herself. She doesn't seem to know what does and doesn't work with her own looks (like, she doesn't have the hips for those tight shorts - too skinny) and so just follows in some strange fashion-sniffing desperation. She reminds me too well of people I knew in college: get a bit punky or crunchy for a while, go sophisto in grad school, but once they get a real job, or hit 30, suddenly they're looking exactly like the upper-middle-class, suburban white folks they are. In ten years, she'll be playing Vegas. Sad - since even though I agree w/Dana insofar as _Guyville_ is one of those evocations of the zeitgeist that's irreprocible, there's also enough good material in her other work to prove plenty of talent as well. > (Speaking of which, what is Elliott Smith doing these days?) I gotta figure Dreamworks dollars in the arm... ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: I suspect that the first dictator of this country will be called "Coach" :: --William Gass ------------------------------ End of loud-fans-digest V3 #182 *******************************